The Middle

[gimmepie]

So, politics the world over is extremely polarised right now. There's no denying that. I don't really want to discuss the pros and cons of this or even how it effects the world though. We currently have some strong proponents of both the left and the right here and I'm curious to see where our ideas and goals overlap.

So considering where you lay on the political spectrum, what are some aspects of your opposition's typical policies/beliefs that you tend to agree with and why?

 

[Somewhere_]

Can the anti-war democrats return as a political force please? The right is becoming more critical of intervention and we need y'all. I think unification over opposing the War on Drugs is becoming increasingly possible as well.

This is more a cultural thing than policy, but I think the left and right should be uniting on free speech. Its declined on college campus identity politics is taking over. True debate is being stifled because one side labels the other as spreading "hate speech" (aka anything they dont like). We live in a democracy, and in a democracy, a healthy debate is necessary.

In the end, the whole free speech issue is hurting both the right and left. Conservatives are having difficulty reaching others and liberals are being discredited. I believe that the Trump presidency was - in part - a reaction against this silencing of political thought.

This potential unification really boils down to this: If we do not conduct healthy debate and argumentation falls out of favor, violence will ensue. We are already seeing this happening and it is time to reverse this process.

 

[Aeroblast]

It feels like I'm the only person on the right in Pokecommunity, though to be honest I probably would've considered myself a leftist only 2 years ago.

As of now, irreligiosity is probably the biggest common ground that I have with leftists.

Regarding polarization of the political left and right, I believe that overuse of words like racist, sexist, nazi to those who disagree with their political beliefs has exacerbated the situation.

 

[Somewhere_]

It feels like I'm the only person on the right in Pokecommunity, though to be honest I probably would've considered myself a leftist only 2 years ago.

As of now, irreligiosity is probably the biggest common ground that I have with leftists.

Regarding polarization of the political left and right, I believe that overuse of words like racist, sexist, nazi to those who disagree with their political beliefs has exacerbated the situation.

Calling conservatives nazis or fascists only serves to justify violence against them. The antifa website labels conservatives as fascists, among others.

As a conservative, I dont enjoy the label, nor is the label accurate.

 

[Aeroblast]

Calling conservatives nazis or fascists only serves to justify violence against them. The antifa website labels conservatives as fascists, among others.

As a conservative, I dont enjoy the label, nor is the label accurate.

At this point it's not even conservatives any more. Anyone who doesn't immediately declare Trump a racist or sexist, anyone who even slightly deviates from the predominant leftist narrative are labeled a nazi as well - JonTron being the latest example.

This guy does a good job arguing against the increasingly popular invocation of the Godwin's law.

 

[Ivysaur]

I used to say that, while being an ardent leftist in most of my ideals, I'm also a strong supporter of free trade and of treaties like CETA, TTIP or TPP. In my opinion, the conflict resolution mechanisms have been caricaturised into gigantic bogeymen who would drive Governments into becoming slaves of the corporations, and there has been a laser-focus on the individual people who would lose their jobs (who could be given money as compensation) instead of looking at the other thousands or millions of people who would get new ones instead or who would increase their income through new exports- and certainly, it's ignoring the tens of millions of people who would save money each month by buying cheaper imports.

I say I used to, because at this point it seems that nobody supports free trade anymore.

 

[gimmepie]

It's funny Went brings that up. I used to support free trade when I was younger, but despite generally being a globalist, I currently believe a degree of protectionism is a good move.

 

[Somewhere_]

I'm still a free trader, but I would not consider myself a globalist. If it makes sense, I prefer globalization over globalism.

The only time I wouldnt support free trade are in times of war where it would hurt a neutral nation to free trade with a belligerent nation or for developing countries. Developing countries need to build up their own industry and by dumping cheap goods into their economy, it totally destroys their industry because everyone takes the cheaper goods. As a result, the country inadvertently relies on other countries' products and it hurts everyone involved. If developing countries can build up their own industry, its better for consumers (more competition), better for citizens of those nations (jobs) and better for the citizens of developed nations (developing nations no longer rely on them). This is also my argument against dumping excess food (the US produces a lot of excess food to the point where the government pays farmers to produce less food) in Africa.

Free trade and the TPP is a weird subject. I am in favor of TPP, but pro-free traders seem to dislike it because its not "perfect" free trade. Like give me a break, a net positive is better than no positive. And at the same time, anti-free traders hate the TPP because it is free trade.

 

[Esper]

I agree with many people on the right who are upset about the little guy being trampled on. I'm not very happy with the corporatist elements within much of the left (the American version of "left" anyway) and would like to see if this issue could be addressed without bringing in all the other things people seem to want to bring into the discussion. Like, I don't think there are many people who really think corporations should have legal personhood (as they do in the US) because it's just wrong to give them the rights of a person without the corresponding responsibilities to act properly.

 

[Hands]

Calling conservatives nazis or fascists only serves to justify violence against them. The antifa website labels conservatives as fascists, among others.

As a conservative, I dont enjoy the label, nor is the label accurate.

It's not run of the mill conservatives a lot of us consider as fascists. It's the alt-right, far right and the "hard-Christians" we object to because fundamentally they are fascists/racists/sexists. Some of it is that for a good bulk of them they lack basic education, and that isn't really their fault.


I'm a Socialist, moreso than the party I support and, in current times, heading far more toward Communism. I believe heavily in single payer health care, free tuition and nationalization of public transport, energy and the banks. I think the poor should be richer and the rich poorer. There's very little I agree with the Right on anymore. The rise of groups like Britain First, the EDL and the Alt-Right have pushed me further to the left than ever before.

 

[Somewhere_]

It's not run of the mill conservatives a lot of us consider as fascists. It's the alt-right, far right and the "hard-Christians" we object to because fundamentally they are fascists/racists/sexists. Some of it is that for a good bulk of them they lack basic education, and that isn't really their fault.

Define fascist, define alt-right, far-right, and "hard-Christians. Just so I get a better grasp of what you are saying.

I'm a Socialist, moreso than the party I support and, in current times, heading far more toward Communism. I believe heavily in single payer health care, free tuition and nationalization of public transport, energy and the banks. I think the poor should be richer and the rich poorer. There's very little I agree with the Right on anymore. The rise of groups like Britain First, the EDL and the Alt-Right have pushed me further to the left than ever before.

Any social issues you would agree on with any of the Right? Should all industry be nationalized?

 

[Thepowaofhax]

In regards to me, I have a list of my ideals here for policies and such. I agree with the progressives on a lot of social issues such as LGBTQ rights, civil rights, women's reproductive rights and other such things. Economically, we are dissimilar and we have different stances in regards the military (such as a mandatory draft) and civic nationalism.

 

[Hands]

Define fascist, define alt-right, far-right, and "hard-Christians. Just so I get a better grasp of what you are saying.

Alt-Right for me are the scumbags who go out of their way to bully minorities online. The 4chan crowd, the "SJW SNOWFLAKE HUR HUR SAFE SPACE HUR" guys who genuinely agree with the holocaust. It's a harder group to define than others because obviously there's varying degrees, but you can be sure that when I mention the alt-right, I'm talking about the caliber of turds who tried to mark Jews out with the (((namehere))) crap. Really, anyone who's ever ironically called someone a "cuck" for speaking up for someone else's rights.

Hard "Christians" are those who completely ignore any part of the bible that tries to teach them humanity whilst using one line of Leviticus to justify their hatred of gays and to dehumanise lbgtq people at every turn.

Far Right are your classic skin heads, KKK, "black lives dont matter" crowd. They're the easiest to point out because they're the most established radicals. Hard Christians aren't always easy to notice because they arguably follow enough of the Bible to do token gestures like donating to the church etc alongside regular Christians. The Alt-Right are harder to spot because they're a much less organised and defined movement, What I call the Alt-Right you might call hardline Alt-Righters. Or what you call the Alt-Right I might consider center-right.

Any social issues you would agree on with any of the Right? Should all industry be nationalized?

Actually I suppose I do agree with reforming the prison service to be more of a hard punishment with zero luxuries. However, I also do not believe even half the prison population should be in prison (either their sentences are too long or they should never have been there.)

 

[Somewhere_]

Alt-Right for me are the scumbags who go out of their way to bully minorities online. The 4chan crowd, the "SJW SNOWFLAKE HUR HUR SAFE SPACE HUR" guys who genuinely agree with the holocaust. It's a harder group to define than others because obviously there's varying degrees, but you can be sure that when I mention the alt-right, I'm talking about the caliber of turds who tried to mark Jews out with the (((namehere))) crap. Really, anyone who's ever ironically called someone a "cuck" for speaking up for someone else's rights.

(((Soros))) <- ya i know why you are talking about

Cuck and "SJW Snowflake" aren't great signs of an alt-righter because they are kinda just popular catchphrases that have replaced "libtard" or something of the sort. Its really those that want a white ethnostate that are what I call hardliner alt-righters. Alt-lighters are just conservatives that dislike the current establishment and differ somewhat. And especially in opposition to neoconservativism. I dont think its fair to lump Harliner Alt-Righters with Alt-Lighters. Both are Alt-Right, but its as you said: its a very broad group.

Hard "Christians" are those who completely ignore any part of the bible that tries to teach them humanity whilst using one line of Leviticus to justify their hatred of gays and to dehumanise lbgtq people at every turn.

If you are Christian and use Leviticus to justify your prejudice, you are uneducated in theology and/or translates of the word "abomination." Or just a plain hypocrite if you have ever eaten shellfish.

Far Right are your classic skin heads, KKK, "black lives dont matter" crowd. They're the easiest to point out because they're the most established radicals. Hard Christians aren't always easy to notice because they arguably follow enough of the Bible to do token gestures like donating to the church etc alongside regular Christians. The Alt-Right are harder to spot because they're a much less organised and defined movement, What I call the Alt-Right you might call hardline Alt-Righters. Or what you call the Alt-Right I might consider center-right.

If you are defining the Alt-Right as center-right, you are dumping a whole bunch of people into the Alt-Right that dont even belong and you make us right-wingers that are far-right economically to look like Nazi apologetics. This definition is both dangerous and false. Its the equivalent of calling the center-left un-ironic gulag-worshipping communists

Actually I suppose I do agree with reforming the prison service to be more of a hard punishment with zero luxuries. However, I also do not believe even half the prison population should be in prison (either their sentences are too long or they should never have been there.)

The War on Drugs is utter bs

 

[Esper]

The War on Drugs is utter bs

I found another thing I can agree on with someone from the right. But is this a common opinion? I feel like it's what everyone quietly believes except for a few hardliners.

 

[Corrin]

I'm really far left lol, so there isn't much right I agree with but I'll respect people's opinions and their views.

 

[Somewhere_]

I found another thing I can agree on with someone from the right. But is this a common opinion? I feel like it's what everyone quietly believes except for a few hardliners.

The libertarians have always opposed it, and conservatives are slowly getting around thankfully.

 

[Majestic Electric]

Calling conservatives nazis or fascists only serves to justify violence against them. The antifa website labels conservatives as fascists, among others.

As a conservative, I dont enjoy the label, nor is the label accurate.

Although I consider myself a liberal (although I do have a few conservative views on certain topics), I understand how you feel. After the election, I can't tell you the amount of Facebook posts on my feed saying s*** like "If you voted for Trump, explain to your minority friends why you hate them," or something along those lines. I'm actually Jewish irl and if anyone understands about labeling, it's those in my religion. We've dealt with that crap forever. My best friend is a Republican and she doesn't have a racist bone in her body, so you can imagine how upset I was when I saw those posts.

Not all conservatives are racist, and I'm really sick of all these allegations, too. It's only dividing our country further.

 

[Somewhere_]

Although I consider myself a liberal (although I do have a few conservative views on certain topics), I understand how you feel. After the election, I can't tell you the amount of Facebook posts on my feed saying s*** like "If you voted for Trump, explain to your minority friends why you hate them," or something along those lines. I'm actually Jewish irl and if anyone understands about labeling, it's those in my religion. We've dealt with that crap forever. My best friend is a Republican and she doesn't have a racist bone in her body, so you can imagine how upset I was when I saw those posts.

Not all conservatives are racist, and I'm really sick of all these allegations, too. It's only dividing our country further.

Its not just the label that is bad. Its becoming popular to advocate punching or killing fascists, and with conservatives being labeled fascists, not so good. We can't even wear MAGA hats without getting beaten up.

I have a friend that is both Jewish and a Republican as well. They really dont appreciate the label. Its terrible, really.

 

[Reyzadren]

Aww, I am the only one here who supports Libertarianism so far? (considered left?)

In-topic: I guess in terms of the USA, I agree with left liberals on drugs being legal, and with right conservatives on having no gun control.