Minority representation in media

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

I can't get over the fact the same person saying "i don't like bullying because i was bullied" is the same person calling Rose Tico a "token Asian" when her actress, Kellie Marie Tran, was bullied off of social media. I don't think it's a crime to want more than just white people or straight people in media, nor is it just a fad. It's a progressive movement and I believe it's going to go forward as time goes on.

Did it occur to you perhaps she was bullied not because she was Asian, but because people outright hated her character?

That seems to be a very popular opinion with that movie.

 

[Sydian]

Did it occur to you perhaps she was bullied not because she was Asian, but because people outright hated her character?

That seems to be a very popular opinion with that movie.

I've considered it, yes. And when I considered it, I found that I disagreed with it. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Rose were played by a white woman, she wouldn't have faced any of these problems. I don't see what's wrong with her character enough to bitch and moan about it, especially to the actress who was just playing her part.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

I've considered it, yes. And when I considered it, I found that I disagreed with it. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that if Rose were played by a white woman, she wouldn't have faced any of these problems. I don't see what's wrong with her character enough to ***** and moan about it, especially to the actress who was just playing her part.

You brought up a good point, why *wasn't* she played by a white woman then?

That's why I feel she probably is token.

I've never seen the film, but I've heard a lot about it. She was preachy, had one of the worst lines in the film, side-by-side with one of the most sappily stupid moments too, and I've heard too she "ruined" Finn, by essentially being a parasite to him.

So, while I can't say I care about Star Wars, I can certainly understand the hatred for the character.

 

[Sydian]

You brought up a good point, why *wasn't* she played by a white woman then?

That's why I feel she probably is token.

She doesn't need a reason to be played by an Asian either, though. Asians exist just like white people. We live in a society where white people in media are so common that we're socialized to believe that to be the norm and anything that deviates it gets thrown into 'token' territory. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know all about Star Wars casting and auditioning, which also probably plays a factor. But my point is that people tend to think that if the character isn't white, they need a reason that they're black or Asian or disabled or LGBT or anything that deviates from what we're so used to seeing in media. Those people exist in our very real world. Why not have them in the media as much as white people?

We could go on and on about this of course, and I'm not out to change your mind or anything. Nothing you will say will change mine, either. I'm just going to leave this thread at that.

 

[Hikamaru]

I agree with this 100%. I can understand making a big deal of this if it's related to the plot and relevant to the story/setting, but otherwise, just let characters be their own thing. They can be gay, straight, whatever- but I'd rather it not be fixated so heavily on unless it was relevant to the story or there was a message trying to be sent.

The fact that the marketing heavily focuses on just the sexual or racial part shows just how much these big companies are making these characters only to fill a stupid quota and nothing else. The race or sexual orientation can be focused on if it relates to the story, but not when treated as the only character trait.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

She doesn't need a reason to be played by an Asian either, though. Asians exist just like white people. We live in a society where white people in media are so common that we're socialized to believe that to be the norm and anything that deviates it gets thrown into 'token' territory. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know all about Star Wars casting and auditioning, which also probably plays a factor. But my point is that people tend to think that if the character isn't white, they need a reason that they're black or Asian or disabled or LGBT or anything that deviates from what we're so used to seeing in media. Those people exist in our very real world. Why not have them in the media as much as white people?

We could go on and on about this of course, and I'm not out to change your mind or anything. Nothing you will say will change mine, either. I'm just going to leave this thread at that.

I'm not trying to change your opinion either. Just food for thought.

I've actually given the same defense to a show of mine I enjoyed very much from childhood. I've heard reviews of "OH COME ON, A WOMAN, A BLACK GUY, AND A HANDICAPPED GUY, THEY'RE TRYING WAY TOO HARD TO FILL AN AGENDA" and I was like "It's NYC... it's going to be that diverse." Not to mention the creators confirmed they only made one of those characters disabled because he would've been too bland of a character otherwise. Give him that jock personality in a wheelchair and put him right in the action with everyone else though, and now you have a more engaging character.

Not saying someone like Rose was put in for some sort of agenda. I think the backlash would be *a lot* harsher if that were the case (see: Leslie Jones from the GB remake), but I personally think people hate the character far more than the actress.

I mean, Star Wars is a *very* touchy subject with people.

 

[Incineroar]

I'll be honest, as a gay man I really don't give a shit if people get pissed off at seeing minorities included. Don't watch it if it bothers you that much. You have literal decades of movies that don't have minorities if you're really that annoyed by it. I would like to see bigger representation in media and I don't really care if companies are cashing in on it. PLEASE cash in on it. I want more media with characters similar to me that isn't hot garbage like GBF.

My sentiments exactly. The only thing is, people that want to oppose anything that goes against their belief system will actively watch it and find bits and pieces from said content just to use it as a weak form of ammunition for their arguments (When it doesn't actually do anything, here's looking at you WBC!). It's a part of a cycle that cannot be broken.

 

[Nakuzami]

oh my goodness

what a hot mess let's all just watch Sense8 and be happy

honestly can't we just have non-white, non-cishet characters that are allowed to exist without white cishets getting all up in arms about it lmao

but if you want to look at how not to do minority representation, just look at the new Heathers tv show

You write a fantasy story where a character is gay, because it not only adds to the narrative and the characterization, yes, that is a fine character.

And if a character is gay just to be gay, without any real narrative purpose or relevance? Is there an issue there? Because, shockingly, a lot of LGBTQ people just tend to exist irl, despite the best efforts of the many people trying to prevent that.

Surely you remember the Sony's Ghostbusters debacle, yes? Best example of that.
They spun the truth to make it seem anti-woman, rather than the fact most fans just hated the piss poor comedy, not the fact it starred women.

Honestly almost all of the hate I saw put against the movie literally was simply because it was an all female team. That was it. That was the extent to the bitching and whining that I saw leading up to and post-release of the film. In various locations from many people. They were just pissed that it was a team of ladies.

Personally I enjoyed the film but w/e

 

[gimmepie]

Honestly almost all of the hate I saw put against the movie literally was simply because it was an all female team. That was it. That was the extent to the bitching and whining that I saw leading up to and post-release of the film. In various locations from many people. They were just pissed that it was a team of ladies.

Personally I enjoyed the film but w/e

The problem with this is that IT'S GHOST BUSTERS BUT... LADIES!!! was the movie's entire selling point. They took existing characters and then gender switched them for the reboot. They changed existing characters to women for the spectacle. That's not representation it's marginalisation.

Onto the topic at hand, I'm kind of on the fence in a way I guess? There absolutely needs to be more representation for minority groups in media. Whitewashing or unrealistic demographics are a plague on entertainment and so is the constant portrayal of characters as stereotypes. I am all for having more black, Asian, Arab, gay or whatever else that is different from the usual characters in cinema/tv. Especially if they just happen to be of that demographic and it's not the entire focus of their character.

At the same time though, creators shouldn't feel like they have a quota of each different demographic to fill. A movie shouldn't be slammed for having all the main characters be white any more than it should be slammed for having all the main characters be black or Asian. There 100% needs to be more representation in all media, but it has to be organic representation. They have to be real people, they don't need to be that way for a narrative reason unless that is the entire purpose of the story or their character arc - not every gay character needs to struggle with being gay, not every female character needs to have a shitty man screwing up her life etc etc. It should be okay to write a story about a group of friends who just happen to be white, straight and male. We just need to write more stories about people that just happen to be black or Asian or Arab or gay or whatever as well. Don't make minorities a spectacle with tokenism.

 

[Nakuzami]

The problem with this is that IT'S GHOST BUSTERS BUT... LADIES!!! was the movie's entire selling point. They took existing characters and then gender switched them for the reboot. They changed existing characters to women for the spectacle. That's not representation it's marginalisation.

That's not the case, though? They weren't the same characters. And even if they were . . . that is in no way marginalization to just have a character be gender swapped. It would be if they had taken underrepresented demographic groups and then merged them into the majority, i.e. taking a team full of characters originally portrayed as PoC/Women/LGBT/et cetera and then making them all straight white men.

And to be fair, the premise was supposed to be the OG Ghostbusters team training a new team to replace them, but they weren't ever able to get all four of the original actors to be available at the same time, and then one kinda died. So they just went for a reboot. /shrugs

A movie shouldn't be slammed for having all the main characters be white any more than it should be slammed for having all the main characters be black or Asian. There 100% needs to be more representation in all media, but it has to be organic representation.

[...]

It should be okay to write a story about a group of friends who just happen to be white, straight and male. We just need to write more stories about people that just happen to be black or Asian or Arab or gay or whatever as well. Don't make minorities a spectacle with tokenism.

The problem is that that's what most stories pretty much are, to an unrealistic extent. The call for representation is due to under-representation. Non-white cishet folk have been kept out of media for so long because people don't want to acknowledge them, and when they have been represented for the longest time they were simply all racist and homo/transphobic caricatures.

Even in our "accepting modern society," it's difficult to find good representation or leading roles for such people. Times have not changed nearly as much as people like to claim that they have. And since most film-based media (that reaches international audiences) comes out of Hollywood, there are many deeply American problems that still plague it. Segregation is literally still in living memory, as well as concentration camps for Japanese citizens . . . we literally have concentration camps for immigrants today thanks to the Trump administration, so like??? Not good at all.

And you won't find many major films where all of the lead characters are black, asian, or anything non-white. Black Panther is one of the only great examples, and it literally just came out. When you consider the makeup of the world today, I think media that 100% focuses on white cishet characters and issues should 100% be called into question. We have plenty of that already, to unrealistic proportions lmao

And tokenism certainly is a problem. A problem in that if a character is non-white cishet, they get slammed for being a "token" character, even if their place is extremely well written or established. "Wtf is this token bitch doing in this movie? Take them out, I want ALL of my characters to be white and straight! Stop shoving your SJW nonsense into our faces!"

Are there "token" characters that are problematic? Certainly, though less so now than when that "trend" first started.

And yeah, certain "minority" demographic groups have found better representation recently as well, though still not great. As a white cis gay male, I would totally love to see more representation for myself, but like, most media that's "lgbt inclusive" focuses heavily on white cis gay men?? lmfao. So while I think that they're still underrepresented, they are still over saturated in the little media that we've gotten that focuses on or includes lgbt characters. Give us more trans PoC characters, some non-white gays or any good lesbian/bi/pan representation, like seriously lol. The entire LGBT movement wouldn't exist without trans women of color, so the amount of racist and ungrateful gays in modern times is fucking ridiculous and disgusting. It's laughable when people like that take the time to "celebrate" pride month right now when they're shitting all over the people who gave them that opportunity in the first place.



Idk man, I'm fine just sitting back and watching angry white cishets bitch over anyone different being represented in media, while we continue to up their representation overall. ?\_(?)_/?

 

[Vragon2.0]

Aheh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh

The problem with this is that IT'S GHOST BUSTERS BUT... LADIES!!! was the movie's entire selling point. They took existing characters and then gender switched them for the reboot. They changed existing characters to women for the spectacle. That's not representation it's marginalisation.

That's not the case, though? They weren't the same characters. And even if they were . . . that is in no way marginalization to just have a character be gender swapped. It would be if they had taken underrepresented demographic groups and then merged them into the majority, i.e. taking a team full of characters originally portrayed as PoC/Women/LGBT/et cetera and then making them all straight white men..

It is, if that is the movie's entire selling point. I will say Gimmipie's comment on them being the "same" characters was poorly worded and I do agree having this cast isn't an example of marginalization if it was just the movie or hell that original idea. It is when that's the entire point of it or the entire marketing behind it. It isn't that they had women as the cast, but that they were essentially making the movie to say "Hey look, Ghost busters that are only females and that's our driving force for this entire thing. The whole point is to make a story. Write characters that are characters and not just something you concoct to fill a quota, else it's a poor example of representation.

And to be fair, the premise was supposed to be the OG Ghostbusters team training a new team to replace them, but they weren't ever able to get all four of the original actors to be available at the same time, and then one kinda died. So they just went for a reboot. /shrugs.

Okay, cool and that sounds like a good premise....but they didn't do that....and went with the reboot...?.why is this here? I mean, good for them for trying, but does that make it any less well...the reboot?

A movie shouldn't be slammed for having all the main characters be white any more than it should be slammed for having all the main characters be black or Asian. There 100% needs to be more representation in all media, but it has to be organic representation.

The problem is that that's what most stories pretty much are, to an unrealistic extent. The call for representation is due to under-representation. Non-white cishet folk have been kept out of media for so long because people don't want to acknowledge them, and when they have been represented for the longest time they were simply all racist and homo/transphobic caricatures.

First:
I'll add this little thing you left off on his comment

At the same time though, creators shouldn't feel like they have a quota of each different demographic to fill.

And before you say it isn't relevant to you responding to him, it deals with the creators and rep so yeah.

Second:

The call for representation is due to under-representation.

Which is adding to this stress of "quota" Gimmie is saying. I think having other peeps in roles and stuff is great, but if you are doing it via a "quota" or checkbox then tell me, how is that good representation? It's not, since you aren't writing actual roles for peeps and instead filling things in to get through the paper work. Story telling has a lot to do with characters and a good reason why so many movie character's suck is that they were written with the idea of "representation" as the driving force and not well an actual person.

Take Lando Calirission. He's a black guy in Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back. In it he's suave and while friendly has subtly to his nature. People don't like him cause he was the "first black guy in star wars" but that he's a great character that honestly is loved by fans.

Now take the Solo version who they say is "Pansexual" and has a robot to add to that and tell me if that even works with the movie in context. Like, I wouldn't have guess he was, due to how unrelated or never mentioned (okay the robot speculating probably but that's a poor way to do it).

Even in our "accepting modern society," it's difficult to find good representation or leading roles for such people. Times have not changed nearly as much as people like to claim that they have.

How so? Didn't you just say this earlier?

The call for representation is due to under-representation

and with how many movies are out regarding these reps and all (I mean, we got a fishy fetish one for an idea peeps heh heh) that seems like a big leap compared to when only white guys did the lead roles in foreign set movies (Still not happy with you avatar the last airbender)

And since most film-based media (that reaches international audiences) comes out of Hollywood, there are many deeply American problems that still plague it. Segregation is literally still in living memory, as well as concentration camps for Japanese citizens . . . we literally have concentration camps for immigrants today thanks to the Trump administration, so like??? Not good at all.

Cough Love the "American" problem yah put there as if Trump is a ripe example of all the 50 states. Representation is a problem when multiple minority cultures are in a bigger culture. This isn't America only buddy, this is the effects of an idea called "Multi-Culturalism"

Like, Goddamn, why is it that peeps think that America being soooooo divided is due to how backwards they are and not due to well...the dividing cultures and how there are many different ones in the US (50 states mind you) all with differing perspectives and all that ilk.

Also, it's not like peeps are intentionally keeping others out of roles now. You apply for the role and are tested to see if you get it. And even then, it's only personal bias if it's due to their skin color. Also, shooting back to your "we haven't changed" a lot, cause that's another thing that's changed.

And you won't find many major films where all of the lead characters are black, asian, or anything non-white. Black Panther is one of the only great examples, and it literally just came out. When you consider the makeup of the world today, I think media that 100% focuses on white cishet characters and issues should 100% be called into question. We have plenty of that already, to unrealistic proportions lmao

what do you define as Major? Like...successful? Cause last I checked Star Wars 7 did really well with a female lead. So did Jumanji, Wonder Woman, The greatest Showman.
Box office records for 2017

And tokenism certainly is a problem. A problem in that if a character is non-white cishet, they get slammed for being a "token" character, even if their place is extremely well written or established. "Wtf is this token rattata doing in this movie? Take them out, I want ALL of my characters to be white and straight! Stop shoving your SJW nonsense into our faces!"

First, no one but far racists talk like that, second, some examples would be nice. I also, can give examples of well-written and well done characters that were loved that weren't white. Lando from star wars 5, Ripcord GI Joe rise of Cobra some others I'd have to look up.

Are there "token" characters that are problematic? Certainly, though less so now than when that "trend" first started.

And yeah, certain "minority" demographic groups have found better representation recently as well, though still not great. As a white cis gay male, I would totally love to see more representation for myself, but like, most media that's "lgbt inclusive" focuses heavily on white cis gay men?? lmfao.

It's almost like peeps think that a character role is simple a slot fillin. Like, the story and characters need to be written. Not every movie focuses on someone's sexual preference. Also, Dark Knight Rises Catwoman, an example of a lesbian character in a movie that was well received.

Like, movies need to be written and characters created for these things to go and last I checked, making a movie isn't so cut and dry. I'm fine with more rep, the issue is you need to write more rep characters in there that aren't just bland and role filling cause "Oh we need a gay character and have him gay though it doesn't really matter to the plot at all with what we wrote."

So while I think that they're still underrepresented, they are still over saturated in the little media that we've gotten that focuses on or includes lgbt characters. Give us more trans PoC characters, some non-white gays or any good lesbian/bi/pan representation, like seriously lol.

Like...do you know how much goes into making a movie or pitching an idea for a movie? Just sayin', you can say "rep these groupings" all you want, but unless they want to make a movie with a character like that in there then well...sucks to be.

The entire LGBT movement wouldn't exist without trans women of color, so the amount of racist and ungrateful gays in modern times is psyducking ridiculous and disgusting. It's laughable when people like that take the time to "celebrate" pride month right now when they're mukting all over the people who gave them that opportunity in the first place.

This isn't part of the discussion, just ranting on Pride Month LGBT peeps not caring about their group. I do agree it's stupid, but then again I have my own opinions on the LGBT as a whole and stuff, but that's not for here and all to be fair.

Idk man, I'm fine just sitting back and watching angry white cishets rattata over anyone different being represented in media, while we continue to up their representation overall. ?\_(?)_/?

Watch Inception sometime.


Overall: I've said this before, but I'm fine with more representation happening, the issue comes when it's merely to fulfill a quota and characters are written or actors put in that don't belong. Whitewashing or colorwashing. The context of the story is really important when picking a role, not to mention some info "like peeps sexuality" isn't focused on in some films and stories compared to others. I don't control the dumpster fire that is Hollywood and I can't make them make great movies as much as I want to.

But overall, essentially this is a case of not having enough good movies or roles written. There's more to a good character than skin and sexuality so I'd advise f**king Hollywood to focus on writing good stories and characters that have these attributes and are well versed in their balance instead of feeling like they need to write someone in there to be "Yes! Scratch that off" and think you're doing anyone a service.

And with that, I need to watch some I love lucy!

 

[Trev]

I think we're all digging at a bigger systemic problem here. Why don't we have more roles written for minorities? It's likely because Hollywood's screenwriters are predominantly, drum roll, cut from a single demographic, and that single demographic tends to follow the advice of "write what you know," and guess what that demographic knows? Themselves.

 

[Corrin]

I think we're all digging at a bigger systemic problem here. Why don't we have more roles written for minorities? It's likely because Hollywood's screenwriters are predominantly, drum roll, cut from a single demographic, and that single demographic tends to follow the advice of "write what you know," and guess what that demographic knows? Themselves.

I agree with this. If they give more people a chance to write or direct, it would help.
There's also the worry that they won't portray someone who is minority correctly, which could offend others?

But I think representation is important because everyone deserves a good character they can look up to, everyone wants to see themselves in media, so it can impact them ^^

 

[Bay]

I think we're all digging at a bigger systemic problem here. Why don't we have more roles written for minorities? It's likely because Hollywood's screenwriters are predominantly, drum roll, cut from a single demographic, and that single demographic tends to follow the advice of "write what you know," and guess what that demographic knows? Themselves.

Not only that, but we can encourage more minority writers/directors themselves break through the industry so they can make stories based on their experiences.

 

[Bidoof FTW]

We may have moved on from this point but I really want to bring it back a bit because I think bringing in Rose Tico as an example is bad. I think that her being an Asian has no effect on the story and that people are simply so upset with her character that they will find any insult to fling on either the actor or the writers.

It is okay to accept that Rian Johnson has completely failed the series. The backlash against the actresses behind characters like Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo are just childish moves by people directing their anger in the wrong place.

Rose being asian has actually ZERO impact on her character, because they don't even bring it up, she is by no means a stereotype and her writing would've been similar on a character of any other race - personally I think this is a good thing for movies where the race of the characters isn't a focus, you want there to be badass characters that you can relate to, but them being a different race has no dramatic effect on the movie, it's still Star Wars.

I think that the whole backlash is misplaced anger against Rian Johnson and his god awful writing. People are mad at Rose because she replaced Rey's spot as Finn's love interest and is just not a very well written character, she is forced into the movie and it feels unnatural and several of her scenes show that the character is very flip-floppy and not well written. The actress isn't awful and her being asian doesn't matter. It's just people upset that the movie they wanted to be good was a damn dumpster fire and they resort to racism because that's the only place that they can direct it to.

Shakugan I don't think it's the races or sexes or sexual orientation that should bother you but rather just encouraging a focus on quality writing. Resorting to the race of the character as the root of the problem when it simply is not the issue will not add anyone to your side.

I also think it's important to understand that every movie has a target audience and that audience doesn't have to be everyone. It's obvious people want these minority leads because they can relate to it, so these movies will be targeted and written for the people that have the demand for it. If you don't want to watch it, you don't have to, but I think blaming your dislike for a movie on the race/gender/orientation of a character is just misplaced anger that makes you look bad to the people that really like these movies for the connection they feel to them.

You don't have to have everything to be happy :) It's okay to let other groups of people get their turn in the spotlight and a chance to catch up to the people that have been the focus for decades.

Feels like a rant, hopefully something here made sense.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

Honestly almost all of the hate I saw put against the movie literally was simply because it was an all female team. That was it. That was the extent to the *****ing and whining that I saw leading up to and post-release of the film. In various locations from many people. They were just pissed that it was a team of ladies.

Personally I enjoyed the film but w/e

I take it you saw the tabloid articles and everything they wanted you to see, right?
The initial intense hatred of the film was due that it was an unnecessary and unfunny remake to most people.
Only an extremely tiny minority cared that it was female; most did not.
And Sony actually erased the negative comments that weren't sexist to further make it seem as if it was due to anti-women sentiment and sensationalist media ran with it, etc. Whole controversy = marketing and now a sense of obligation to defend it as some women's pride film.
I personally can attest to this as well, as my own comments on the video were erased because they were negative but not against women. Many times, actually. (I tested to see if it was true)

It's pretty much the ploy I was talking about in my post. The dubious, cheap and easy tactic employed that most people should ignore.

And to be honest, I don't know why any woman would want to be represented by a film like this. Queef jokes and the like... Really? It's like 12 year old boy's perspective on what girls are like.

But hey, you're allowed to have liked the film; I'm not saying you can't; I'm saying the whole feminism angle was a dubious scheme by Sony.

This video is the easiest to digest for that info.

 

[Trev]

There's also the worry that they won't portray someone who is minority correctly, which could offend others?

You're exactly right. And it's not even about offending (most of the time). It usually comes down to lacking the experience and insight. For example, straight men are more than welcome to write gay male characters, but I will usually not connect to them as well as I do with characters written by people who understand a gay man. Hell, there are even exceptions to the rule (I hate Call Me By Your Name but love Simon vs. The Homo Sapiens Agenda, even though neither were written by gay men). But it's always obvious when a minority is writing about experiences they know well (F to 7th comes to mind - phenomenal series).

 

[Taemin]

This thread reminds me that I have a family member who actually asked "Why are there so many minorities shoved our faces these days?"

And I just looked at them, like "....? Why are straight white people shoved in our faces? Not everyone is white, or hetero, and TV shouldn't have just one type of person". and they legitimately shut up.

Minorities aren't minorities anymore. If you have a room of 500 people, in a lot of cases it's gonna have just as many PoC and LGBTQ+ people as it will your typical white folks, or more than.

That's why it ticks me off when I hear such comments from family or people in public, because slowly but surely minorities are becoming a norm! But I think it would definitely help if their personalities were slipped into media normally. Instead of having a gay character where their whole personality is being gay, just casually insert a chunk of them into a show that also has straight characters. I know there are shows that handle minorities that way, just not enough. Ironically, the Vampire Diaries and The Originals did it well when they were going. PoC, gays, straights, whatever, but nobody gave two shits because everyone was a vampire or a werewolf and they had bigger problems than skin color and race. Which, from someone who is LGBT, is doing it right IMO. Make us the norm, and don't make us pop out too much.

Also, as refreshing as it reading and seeing media written by other gay people, or trans people, or PoC, I will admit to eating up books or media with gay characters that are written by straight people. Sometimes I like my stereotypes. Lol

 

[Vragon2.0]

Minorities aren't minorities anymore. If you have a room of 500 people, in a lot of cases it's gonna have just as many PoC and LGBTQ+ people as it will your typical white folks, or more than.

I mean, possibly Mexicans, but that's taking in the measurements that all minority groups are all being compared together. I mean, comparing the white population to any of the other ones one-on-one leaves, well a lot of difference. I mean, you can say minorities aren't being minorities much anymore, but you'd have to lump all of them together to do that, not to mention you're comparing white skin tone, perhaps maybe orientation, to all these other things.

That's why it ticks me off when I hear such comments from family or people in public, because slowly but surely minorities are becoming a norm!

Depends where in the US you're talking about.

But I think it would definitely help if their personalities were slipped into media normally.

Do you mean like...ratio of casting? Cause I mean, anyone can fill a role if it's up for grabs, but at the same time factors are looked into for all that.

I've done some mulling as well as looked up some things and well...it seems we all need to be reminded that Hollywood is at the end of the day a business. It'll try and cater to what will bring in the bling as some peeps would say. Not to mention there's also the issue in regards to current well known actors.

An interesting observation I found out about was regarding A-list actors nowadays compared to back in the day. There aren't really as many minority A-list actors nowadays (by that I mean, actors that brought in lot of weight and honestly helped market the movie.) That's something else to look into.

I don't think it's all regarding racism or sticking to what you know, but also that the resources and per say, movies out aren't exactly well flexible enough for these things. I mean, they're making safe movies nowadays and trying to well make safe casting choices.

Course, this is just partly and not everything regarding the movie industry so feel free to speculate on the ratio of effect in that area.

Instead of having a gay character where their whole personality is being gay, just casually insert a chunk of them into a show that also has straight characters.

Again, writing is a thing when it comes to it. I though the dark knight rises did well in what you mentioned here. With catwoman's lesbianism (Don't know if that's a word) shown in the movie, yet only a part of her charater. LGBT writings in stories honestly is pretty hard since it's an attribute of your character not many stories heavily or even at all focus on. And even then if you call out how all the movies are having straight couples at least shown or hinted, I'd reply with..."Yeah, that's like the majority by a longshot". I don't say this to shut down, but Hollywood as a business will do what a business does and cater to the biggest crowd they can in order to bring in the biggest bucks if there isn't a specific thing or details regarding the story.

It's also why skin roles are much easier to implement and why they've started doing it much more nowadays as compared to well anything LGBT outside of some movies heavily centered on that aspect of the character.

I know there are shows that handle minorities that way, just not enough.

I mean, yeah if they can write more stories with good LGBT characters more power to them...the issue is they haven't been really writing these as much. The best luck right now regarding it is in cartoons since their production hell maybe even writing it a lot more lax and flexible compared to some big budget movie.

I mean, why do some tropes exist? Why do franchises refuse to die? Cause they bring in money and for some reason work. Hell, Sailor Moon survived for freakin forever and it was...well...repetitive.

Ironically, the Vampire Diaries and The Originals did it well when they were going. PoC, gays, straights, whatever, but nobody gave two muks because everyone was a vampire or a werewolf and they had bigger problems than skin color and race. Which, from someone who is LGBT, is doing it right IMO. Make us the norm, and don't make us pop out too much.

Like....I'm sorry, but this honestly annoys me a little. I get the intention and I'm fine with the want for more rep with better characters, but there's a lot that goes into a story and movie. As a writer myself (an okay writer but work with me here) a lot goes into editing and thinking of how to pull off the story. Sooo many attributes and other things need to be considered before really going into fine polishing or hell even added adjustments. You can't just expect to have some characters be LGBT and poof a character is born. LGBTism (again with the made up words heh) frankly, is an attribute that right now is a hit or miss for many a movie writer. Some do well, others don't and unless a business like Hollywood thinks they can make a buck off of it, I don't see it changing.

Pitches are a thing after all.

Also, as refreshing as it reading and seeing media written by other gay people, or trans people, or PoC, I will admit to eating up books or media with gay characters that are written by straight people. Sometimes I like my stereotypes. Lol

Okay...I mean good and all....I can only hope these "stereotypes" are at least interesting or likable characters and not well....bland. Else, that just makes it harder for them to really care to write any sort of … "character" for them. Movies need to not be overly pressured to fulfill some kind of quote for movies and yet also need to feel free to experiment with new things. Try making some movies that are different and if some don't succeed try and fall on something simple or likable.

Again the industry isn't all cut and dry and it annoys me how people get soooo aggravate at them for "not having enough representation" or "having too much representation" when they don't know how much sh*t goes into making a movie, especially with how poorly the time is being given on them nowadays (Disclaimer: not talking about anyone here)

Overall...I would be fine with more rep going on, but I don't see it going well so long as movies are given less time and not make as much money.

 

[twocows]

"Forced diversity" to me means that someone is being chosen for a role because of some attribute they have that is seen as "diverse" when that attribute has nothing to do with the role they're being chosen for. And yeah, I don't like that. It's unfair to other candidates and it's patronizing to the person being hired. I think the most qualified person should get the position unless there's a plot-relevant reason why they shouldn't.