Your opinion on feminism?

Patchisou Yutohru said:

Without going into too much detail because frankly I'm not interested in debating this, I find it incredibly inconsistent. There was once a time when feminism aligned with what it says it is, but that is very much in the past. At the root it stands for female empowerment, but there are multiple layers about it that construct it as the opposite, bullying. Feminism's primary objective seems to be pushing men down to pull women up. That is not equality. It is picking and choosing behaviors to suit its needs and desires. Unfortunately, feminism is coined with "pro women." If you aren't a feminist, you are against women and you are against women's civil and political rights. If you're a woman yourself who rejects feminism, you hate women. I am very much for women, and "women's rights", but I am very much anti-feminist.

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Vehemently disagree. People who say they are for equality but against feminism always make me laugh. I think the part about feminism having become something else than what it was intended as is debatable, but your idea of what feminism is, is incorrect. I feel that feminism is necessary in this world, where women are still treated as lesser. Had it been the other way around, there would have been a male-focused variant. Feminism is not about putting men down, it's about pulling women up to the same level. It is definitely about equality. The problem with modern day feminism is that it's everything but inclusive, and so it's failing. Gay women, trans women, black women (and any women of colour, but black women in particular) are more often than not excluded and so these days it really seems to be about having a notch on your belt, rather than actually fighting for equality. So I understand your contempt, except it's in the wrong direction.

Feminism at its core is about equality. Speaking generally, if you're not a feminist, you're not against women, but you are definitely for upkeeping the current standard. Or else, you have your definitions all wrong.

Logically you should have the same feelings about LGBT movements or BLM movements, since they put their focus on a particular group. Why doesn't feminism fit in here? It's the same principle. Seems to me like you just want to avoid being grouped in with the negative idea people have of feminists.

Yoshikko said:

Feminism at its core is about equality. Speaking generally, if you're not a feminist, you're not against women, but you are definitely for upkeeping the current standard. Or else, you have your definitions all wrong.

Logically you should have the same feelings about LGBT movements or BLM movements, since they put their focus on a particular group. Why doesn't feminism fit in here? It's the same principle. Seems to me like you just want to avoid being grouped in with the negative idea people have of feminists.

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I severely disagree with this statement. I don't have to be a feminist to still be for women's rights. Feminism doesn't own the concept of equality of the sexes, if just is the most vocal group about it. I disagree with a bit of the policies they put as well as some of their doings so I don't attribute myself to feminism (that and I don't care to). This doesn't make me any less of a equality of the sexes supporter, nor does it mean I have definitions wrong.

Regarding LGBT and BLM, understand not everyone agrees with movements in general. I disagree with a bit of what both do, does that mean I'm against their freedoms, no. I think there's a fine line between association and advocacy. I'm fine with them all bringing their own problems to the table, however I have an issue with the current movements status for my own disagreements with them.

Vragon2.0 said:

I severely disagree with this statement. I don't have to be a feminist to still be for women's rights. Feminism doesn't own the concept of equality of the sexes, if just is the most vocal group about it. I disagree with a bit of the policies they put as well as some of their doings so I don't attribute myself to feminism (that and I don't care to). This doesn't make me any less of a equality of the sexes supporter, nor does it mean I have definitions wrong.

Regarding LGBT and BLM, understand not everyone agrees with movements in general. I disagree with a bit of what both do, does that mean I'm against their freedoms, no. I think there's a fine line between association and advocacy. I'm fine with them all bringing their own problems to the table, however I have an issue with the current movements status for my own disagreements with them.

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My issue with this is that you can't really call feminism a movement in the same way you can call BLM one, given that "feminism" is an ideology rather than a singular collective of people who share an idea. I take similar issue with the idea of "lgbt movements" being boiled down to a single thing.

I probably shouldn't have started with "my issue with this" when i had multiple issues with it is having issues with a movement's actions and excusing yourself from being part of said movement even if you share those views, and as such are inherently a part of the movement is that attributing the actions of a few in what amounts to an organisation with no power structure or prevailing singular policy/set of actions and damning everyone who prescribes to that ideology because of it (even if it's in that lame implicit way that's like "i don't agree with what feminists do but i agree with feminism") is absolutely useless in every respect.

"I don't agree with some guy who said he was part of blm doing a bad thing so i don't agree with blm as a whole, but i agree with their core ideology of 'Hey Maybe We Shouldn't Murder People'" doesn't say anything at all beyond that you attribute the actions of someone/multiple someones who have an ideology with the actions of everyone who shares that ideology.

The vagueness of your disagreements (despite it actually being useful to air those in this discussion) aside, Feminism does own the concept of equality of the sexes because that's literally the ideology at play, and while BLM might actually not own the concept of "hey police brutality is bad and a problem" disagreeing with what some people who agree with BLM do in service of that concept isn't "having issues with" BLM, it's just perceiving BLM to be a hivemind that acts in unison rather than an umbrella label for people who agree with the core ideology

I like the idea of woman (and all people, really) having equal rights and am a strong fan of 'girl power'.

I really dislike feminists who take their point too far, though. Like, the ones that act like girly girls don't belong in this world. I'm a girly girl, myself, so it anger's me when people are against who I am. I'm not weak! I even stood up for other people like me on another forum with a friend today, and it was a forum i've always been afraid of getting in trouble on. This show's I can be a very brave, and strong person. Feminists who would think otherwise of me are in the wrong.

I don't know if I count as 'feminist' or not. I don't really quite understand what the term means. I have nothing against males, though. I have male friends who I see as some of the easiest people ever to talk to. I don't get all scared talking about my childhood, for one, with males unlike with females. Because I don't care as much if they didn't grow up 'girly' as much.

And, in my book, females should feel EMPOWERED by liking 'feminine' and 'girly' things. If those things are refered to as those terms, there's a good reason, not a bad one.

Aliencommander1245 said:

My issue with this is that you can't really call feminism a movement in the same way you can call BLM one, given that "feminism" is an ideology rather than a singular collective of people who share an idea. I take similar issue with the idea of "lgbt movements" being boiled down to a single thing.

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Dude, all movements have an ideology they are pushing, that's nothing new. When I'm talking about feminism, I'm taking about the collective, current active group in the matter. Not every feminist agrees with what their group does yes, but support the over idea that "equality of the sexes" exist. Now, feminism to me is a movement, since it started back then and is still strong now. The idea of "equality of the sexes" and it is activity of said movement I'm talking about.

Aliencommander1245 said:

I probably shouldn't have started with "my issue with this" when i had multiple issues with it is having issues with a movement's actions and excusing yourself from being part of said movement even if you share those views, and as such are inherently a part of the movement is that attributing the actions of a few in what amounts to an organisation with no power structure or prevailing singular policy/set of actions and damning everyone who prescribes to that ideology because of it (even if it's in that lame implicit way that's like "i don't agree with what feminists do but i agree with feminism") is absolutely useless in every respect.

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Not really, I just disagree with a lot of the more focused ones. I'm not square enough to damn the entire group for the collection of a few mind you and I understand not everyone in there is the same nor is everyone in their going to agree on the same thing. I just personally don't care to affiliate due to the idea of "equality of the sexes" being something I personally believe in and go with rather than everything else in there. I think there's is a fine line between the idea of a movement and the movement in general and since both our arguments build on that, that's probably where the bull horns are clashing.

Aliencommander1245 said:

"I don't agree with some guy who said he was part of blm doing a bad thing so i don't agree with blm as a whole, but i agree with their core ideology of 'Hey Maybe We Shouldn't Murder People'" doesn't say anything at all beyond that you attribute the actions of someone/multiple someones who have an ideology with the actions of everyone who shares that ideology.

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I could list the reasons, however I think something to point out is me not going with the group doesn't mean I can't agree with the group on some things, even if it is their core ideology. I don't need to prescribe to BLM to believe peeps shouldn't murder. Call it unhelpful, but I'm not trying to help the movements since I do disagree with them on things as well as have other life things going on that have priority.

Aliencommander1245 said:

The vagueness of your disagreements (despite it actually being useful to air those in this discussion) aside, Feminism does own the concept of equality of the sexes because that's literally the ideology at play, and while BLM might actually not own the concept of "hey police brutality is bad and a problem" disagreeing with what some people who agree with BLM do in service of that concept isn't "having issues with" BLM, it's just perceiving BLM to be a hivemind that acts in unison rather than an umbrella label for people who agree with the core ideology

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I'm glad you think it's useful for airing discussion and I understand you think it is vague. And no, feminism doesn't own that ideology since it is what it is, "an ideology". Movements change and evolve unlike ideas. If core ideologies indicate being a part of the group, than any person that prescribes to the notion that "Everyone is responsible for their own place in society" would then be a Republican in whatever country they're in, since that is a core belief they center around. Also, I'm curious why you say Feminism does own their core concept, while BLM might not? How do you measure that or what is the "requirements" for owning an ideology your group pushes.

I want to make one thing clear. I'm not against the groups, nor do I have the single headed mindset that they have hiveminds. It all comes down to my concern for the "owning the ideology" in your argument. My views on the stuff and all are irrelevant to this discussion. I don't have to list them all, since regardless I'm a human being that makes decisions on his opinion and ideals. Feminism is a movement of peeps that are more outspoken on the issues regarding "equality of the sexes" and until you can prove that it is the ideology rather than just a group of activists basing their actions on that ideal, I can't really give you ground there.

Course, even if that was the case there's the issue on the level of "what is equality in our day and age?" which would be an interesting discussion on the matter.

Jirachu said:

I like the idea of woman (and all people, really) having equal rights and am a strong fan of 'girl power'.

I really dislike feminists who take their point too far, though. Like, the ones that act like girly girls don't belong in this world. I'm a girly girl, myself, so it anger's me when people are against who I am. I'm not weak! I even stood up for other people like me on another forum with a friend today, and it was a forum i've always been afraid of getting in trouble on. This show's I can be a very brave, and strong person. Feminists who would think otherwise of me are in the wrong.

I don't know if I count as 'feminist' or not. I don't really quite understand what the term means. I have nothing against males, though. I have male friends who I see as some of the easiest people ever to talk to. I don't get all scared talking about my childhood, for one, with males unlike with females. Because I don't care as much if they didn't grow up 'girly' as much.

And, in my book, females should feel EMPOWERED by liking 'feminine' and 'girly' things. If those things are refered to as those terms, there's a good reason, not a bad one.

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It shows you can do a moment of standing up for your ideals for that instance. Peeps change and certain circumstances influence decisions to be fair.

I think it's a good question to ask "what is a feminist?" since that's an important question to answer "me and Aliencommander have different perspectives after all". I'd like to say that feminism isn't supposed to be against males. If it's about equality of the sexes from raising women up, it shouldn't be used as a means to "tear men down" in the process, "some things I notice in some of their activist"
Well, women can like whatever they like and all. I do see there is a psychological difference between male and female that needs to be kept in the equation. Men and Women behave and do things differently. Sure they're exceptions, but those aren't the rule. I do think there's Masculine and Feminine behavior that exists and both sexes can have a collection of those traits. Men tend to have more masculine than feminine traits and vise versa. There are exceptions, but they don't constitute the rule.

I do agree that femininity is an important thing in our society and isn't a tool to keep women down. And Masculinity has its own fair share of weak traits. Males and Females can like what they like and act how they act and it doesn't mean they aren't male or female or more male if they're more manly. It just means they're a specific type of male and likewise for females. There's nothing wrong that.

Gigadweeb said:

Alright, so I fall into the situation where people would call me an extreme feminist, SJW, 'third-wave' (using it as a derogatory term instead of its actual definition), whatever.

It's honestly really disappointing looking at this thread and the misconceptions of modern feminism, and also a bit funny considering people seem to like the 'older' feminists, which is really weird considering second-wave is where a lot of the actual man-hating feminists and TERFs fall into.

No shit we support the equality of both sexes. Along with the recognition of minority women, trans women and non-binary people. There's a reason third-wave is known as intersectional feminism.

Personally, I have no problem with men, as I am a guy myself, and pretty much every feminist I've talked to on Leftbook and the meta+left circle of reddit is the same. The reason discussion tends to focus on women is because there is still a shitton of imbalance between men and women. The Hollywood rape accusations that have come out in full force in the past 6 months or so is a good indication of that. Men in positions of power are protected by other influential men. It's as simple as that. Women are threatened that they'll be kept out of the industry if they don't have sex with them, have their life ruined, whatever. This isn't new, and happens everywhere on smaller scales. That's just one example.

My point is, legal rights don't mean shit when it comes to the culture of a society, and pretty much all of the world is still heavily dominated by wealthy men. That's why I'm a feminist. Not because I want to see all men castrated, toothbrushes seized, white genocide, whatever like a lot of reactionaries like to delude themselves into believing.

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This is essentially my opinion as someone who identifies as an intersectional feminist. There's a big misconception that feminism is just man-hating and that's not at all true. However, society is still a very male-dominated culture and male privilege is real and prominent. The fact that men have been allowed to harass ,assault, and abuse women for years and women are only now getting the courage to come forward, really proves that. Until women can feel like their career wont be at risk for speaking up against men in power or they're not discriminated against just for being women, feminism will continue to focus on women's rights. This mean ALL women's right, not just white men's rights. This means trans women are treated as women and women of color are given the same right as white women. But this in no way means feminist hate men, I just think we have to acknowledge that men clearly have more privilege and power than women in most industries and that is not fair. Personally I think the radical and extreme feminist who actually hate men, don't seem to understand that feminism is about them too.

gimmepie said:

Feminism is and always has been about elevating the status of women in pursuit of equality. Let us not pretend, in any way, that it's something it isn't.

As for my own thoughts, I am all for the core belief behind feminism - equality of the sexes. I do not however consider myself a feminist nor do I support feminism as a movement for a few reason. I won't sit here and make outrageous claims that all feminists are feminazi sjw anti-man supremacist whatevers, because that simply isn't the case. The majority of the movement are probably perfectly normal people. Is there extremism in the movement? Yes, but it's not an extremist movement.

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This is a very common fallacy ascribed by feminists, making the classic in-group error that was so rampant with BLM. Every time some BLM supporter went awol, the whole organisation would deny association and after a point it was just impossible to deny the fact that they were associated, often right until they went berserk. It's a really convenient way for radical groups to take advantage of the legitimacy of a similar group of moderates by saying "we're just like them, really," while in reality going and doing whatever and terrorising people at random.

There is a Chinese poem that shows how the logic goes, with someone advocating that white horses are, in fact, not horses, even though brown and yellow horses are. You should definitely give that a read. Also, the dictionary is written by human beings and is not an irrefutable source of truth on anything.

gimmepie said:

That being said, I do have problems with the movement. Firstly, I feel like it pushes beliefs that simply are not factual. The idea that there is a collective patriarchy oppressing women, the idea that there is a culture that encourages rape or sexual assault or that there is an ever-present wage gap (although I'm sure some assholes will go out of their way to under pay don't you worry - this is still too prevalent). I don't for one second doubt that there is a lot of injustice and inequality against women in our society, but I do not believe we have a society centred around the systematic oppression of women. Are women often marginalised, yes. Is there a patriarchal conspiracy against women, no.

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There are a lot of problems when it comes to facts and reason, and it has poisoned science itself. A good example of this is the ironically unscientific view some people have on climate change, because they think that a vast majority consensus of scientists equals truth or fact. The very foundation of a scientific hypothesis or theory is that it must be falsifiable, and if it is not, it might as well be gospel from the heavens and we know how that goes.

gimmepie said:

Secondly, I do not support any group that only seeks to benefit themselves (or otherwise focuses only on the rights of one group). That means feminism, BLM, MRAs, whatever twisted group think white people need to take back America - all of them. If the very nature of your movement is exclusive, then it isn't promoting equality. If you feel like your work s done when problems facing women are dealt with but issues facing men, racial issues, LGBT issues, class issues and so-forth aren't something you speak out against then you never wanted equality. Equality has to be for everyone. As Bay mentioned, even in the feminist movement itself, the focus is very clearly on what benefits middle-upper class white women compared to other females.

I consider myself egalitarian. Not as a thinly-veiled way to do nothing and maintain the status quo like some conservatives use the term, I want equality for everyone and I think the sooner there is a global initiative for equal rights for all, the better.

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That's arguably the biggest problem with many purported egalitarians, is that they actually don't care at all, and want more for themselves just like you say. With the way these movements are approached, it has been demonstrated that they don't foster equality at all, and actually only have a significant effect on those who are already well-off to begin with. Because everyone wants to see some big black movie star make it and don't really care that he was born to parents of millionaires or whatever. Across the board, those who are poor and/or in need suffer the most, as they always do. It's really misguided.

Yoshikko said:

Vehemently disagree. People who say they are for equality but against feminism always make me laugh. I think the part about feminism having become something else than what it was intended as is debatable, but your idea of what feminism is, is incorrect. Feminism is not about putting men down, it's about pulling women up to the same level. It is definitely about equality

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Incorrect according to what authority? Moderate, Inter sectional, radical, marxist feminists, terfs, 2nd wave, 3rd wave, materialist feminists etc? What im getting at, as with any ideology its pretty subjective and very much open to interpretation, it doesnt have a concrete guidelines and i feel the turf wars within feminism really highlights this. Plus all the aforementioned self identify as feminist. In addition some of the aforementioned sub groups/people do hate men btw and numerous lovely things such as "#killallmen" on twitter dont help this argument. Off the top of my head recently i read an article by a feminist professor (Lisa Wade ) whom made the ridiculous assertion that "she rejects the notion of "toxic masculinity," saying it is time to recognize that "it is masculinity itself that has become the problem." and "argued that men must renounce their masculinity and ?denounce anyone who chooses to identify with it.? There is plenty of other evidence too.

Also implied; https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/75/Definist-Fallacy and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Feminism by definition alone =/= equality or egalitarian, simply on the principle that they're only pushing for one genders rights and ignoring others which is rather self serving. https://lastedenblog.wordpress.com/2016/09/11/why-the-dictionary-definition-of-feminism-fails/, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_dictionarium#Feminism explain it better.

I feel that feminism is necessary in this world, where women are still treated as lesser.

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That would require begging the question and a whole lot of ignoring law and legislation amongst various other things (see: very anecdotal and subjective) etc. You may have a point about non western countries however or exceptions in places such as Hollywood but the latter of which is in its own little fantasy bizarre world bubble so i wouldnt say its reflective of society as a whole and is very much an outlier in that respect alluding to the scandals etc.

Had it been the other way around, there would have been a male-focused variant

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.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/106/Hypothesis-Contrary-to-Fact

There is btw called MRA etc and they dont have anywhere near the exposure of feminist groups get and have been demonized (by feminists, shock) when they campaigned for things like male suicide rates, unfair family courts and the like. Even then there is still the same issues within it as with any other ideology as i mentioned above.

Feminism at its core is about equality. Speaking generally, if you're not a feminist, you're not against women, but you are definitely for upkeeping the current standard. Or else, you have your definitions all wrong.

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https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/94/False-Dilemma

Logically you should have the same feelings about LGBT movements or BLM movements, since they put their focus on a particular group. Why doesn't feminism fit in here? It's the same principle. Seems to me like you just want to avoid being grouped in with the negative idea people have of feminists.

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Most of these groups have similar issues actually and have very toxic sub groups/people within them that self identify as such, (more so in BLM) (see: demonizing white cis people or killing cops and can be very dogmatic etc).

I think user gimmepie sums it up perfectly with this response and words it better than myself;

Secondly, I do not support any group that only seeks to benefit themselves (or otherwise focuses only on the rights of one group). That means feminism, BLM, MRAs, whatever twisted group think white people need to take back America - all of them. If the very nature of your movement is exclusive, then it isn't promoting equality. If you feel like your work s done when problems facing women are dealt with but issues facing men, racial issues, LGBT issues, class issues and so-forth aren't something you speak out against then you never wanted equality. Equality has to be for everyone. As Bay mentioned, even in the feminist movement itself, the focus is very clearly on what benefits middle-upper class white women compared to other females.

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eeveetree9 said:

Feminism is (or should be) campaigning for gender equality and working to bring down the patriarchy. And bringing down the patriarchy should mean making the world an equal place for all genders, not placing women on top. I am a feminist, but I definitely don't hate men, as the stereotype seems to be. And, yes, there are probably a lot of women like that, but that's not was feminism is. Anyone who thinks that really needs to go and read Holly Bourne. And if you don't, read her books anyway. They show feminism pretty accurately.

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You shouldn't phrase it like that, 'bringing down the patriarch'.

That is the aspect of rampant feminism I dislike, that "We need to topple down the men"; that goes against what you are actually saying about how you feel. But that terminology is more than just that to some extremists who really feel anti-men; ironically being sexist in their fight against sexism.

Someone else posted more rights for others doesn't mean LESS for others. I agree with what you wrote, but I hate that phrasing more than anything.

As a female, I wouldn't call myself a Feminist, however, I fully support women's rights and I truly believe in the strength that women possess. I disagree with Western Feminism. Feminists nowadays complain about the most irrelevant issues, and attack and degrade men which is extremely hypocritical. Feminism is supposed to be female empowerment, not male belittlement. Moreover, feminism has become incredibly political and it seems to cater to a certain type of woman. If you don't fit that mold then you will often be ostracized by callous, hardcore feminists. REAL Feminists should concern themselves with issues such as women's education, sexual harassment, and the rights of women in countries where women are treated as second class citizens and face discrimination. However, things such as "mansplaining" aren't real problems, and feminists who whine about these make-believe issues are giving feminism a bad rap. It saddens me that so many women lose sight of what's really important. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Period.

https://youtu.be/k-AHLibO2rQ

Speaking of the patriarchy, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Ninetales2000 said:

As a female, I wouldn't call myself a Feminist, however, I fully support women's rights and I truly believe in the strength that women possess. I disagree with Western Feminism. Feminists nowadays complain about the most irrelevant issues, and attack and degrade men which is extremely hypocritical. Feminism is supposed to be female empowerment, not male belittlement. Moreover, feminism has become incredibly political and it seems to cater to a certain type of woman. If you don't fit that mold then you will often be ostracized by callous, hardcore feminists. REAL Feminists should concern themselves with issues such as women's education, sexual harassment, and the rights of women in countries where women are treated as second class citizens and face discrimination. However, things such as "mansplaining" aren't real problems, and feminists who whine about these make-believe issues are giving feminism a bad rap. It saddens me that so many women lose sight of what's really important. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Period.

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I wish I was as smart as you at 17.

I think with the advent of media as we have it it's really easy to just find the worst exams of any particular group and have it broadcast to the world. I think this is what's happened with feminism. It's gotten a bad rap, which I don't think it (entirely) deserves. Christina Hoff Sommers for example is exceptional at the self assessment of her own movement.

However there are some things I think are not just needed but necessary in order not just to help feminism but all identity based groups.

• Talk with people directly, as in real life. At the start of one of my major projects I had a team-mate who strongly identified as a feminist. Although we definitely had a war of ideas we'd run along each other, this only helped our relationship and in the end we both learnt something. She's one of my closest friends now. Key was that we both listened to each other without presumption.
  
• Don't just stick to your group; every group has the potential to become a hive-mind if it becomes too insular. There's 4 main groups I can name off the top of my head that are suffering from this issue.
  
• Try not to ascribe things you have seen online to people you know in real life who might fall under that category. They might have no idea about the only movement at all.
  
• Genuinely listen and try to relate to others. Too often I see people just waiting for a chance to retaliate.
  
• Never become anti-<something> nor should you let anyone try and define you that way.

Sorry if I was vague there but in my opinion this discussion is ultimately about a wider issue that hasn't just been hurting feminism, but many others too.

Ninetales2000 said:

As a female, I wouldn't call myself a Feminist, however, I fully support women's rights and I truly believe in the strength that women possess. I disagree with Western Feminism. Feminists nowadays complain about the most irrelevant issues, and attack and degrade men which is extremely hypocritical. Feminism is supposed to be female empowerment, not male belittlement. Moreover, feminism has become incredibly political and it seems to cater to a certain type of woman. If you don't fit that mold then you will often be ostracized by callous, hardcore feminists. REAL Feminists should concern themselves with issues such as women's education, sexual harassment, and the rights of women in countries where women are treated as second class citizens and face discrimination. However, things such as "mansplaining" aren't real problems, and feminists who whine about these make-believe issues are giving feminism a bad rap. It saddens me that so many women lose sight of what's really important. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Period.

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amen, couldnt have said it better

MysticalNinetales said:

As a female, I wouldn't call myself a Feminist, however, I fully support women's rights and I truly believe in the strength that women possess. I disagree with Western Feminism. Feminists nowadays complain about the most irrelevant issues, and attack and degrade men which is extremely hypocritical. Feminism is supposed to be female empowerment, not male belittlement. Moreover, feminism has become incredibly political and it seems to cater to a certain type of woman. If you don't fit that mold then you will often be ostracized by callous, hardcore feminists. REAL Feminists should concern themselves with issues such as women's education, sexual harassment, and the rights of women in countries where women are treated as second class citizens and face discrimination. However, things such as "mansplaining" aren't real problems, and feminists who whine about these make-believe issues are giving feminism a bad rap. It saddens me that so many women lose sight of what's really important. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Period.

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This is extremely spot-on. I am incredibly disgusted at the state of what feminism has become, in that it's all about making men feel bad while women get to be perfect. It's even worse in pop culture when beloved films and shows have their existing characters changed (such as fitting an LGBTQ orientation) or worst of all, an iconic male character getting replaced by a badly-written female who's always "in your face" and blatantly obvious as to what purpose they were made for. The fact that feminism has now pretty much become mansplaining and trying to knock down men (especially white, non-LGBTQ men) as many pegs as possible.

Both genders deserve equal treatment, but I only accept it if it doesn't come at the cost of one gender. That is why I now have grudges against greedy companies that think toxic feminism is a quick cash-grab... Mattel, Disney and Marvel Comics have all fallen to it, and becoming more anti-consumer just because they want to join in the male-belittling club. It's also why I despise the Me Too movement, because it only exists just to bring male-belittling in the spotlight.

If you're a man you shouldn't even be talking about if feminism is needed.
It's a woman's issue, not your issue.

Joker said:

If you're a man you shouldn't even be talking about if feminism is needed.
It's a woman's issue, not your issue.

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There is so much that is wrong with this comment.

Despite a few extremist exceptions, it's relieving to know that so many women still have their heads in the right place. :)

Joker said:

If you're a man you shouldn't even be talking about if feminism is needed.
It's a woman's issue, not your issue.

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This honestly made me want to close my laptop to start laughing. Isn't the whole point of feminism about equality between males and females? So then why wouldn't males be involved in that? Or at you of the idea that it's all just about putting women up there and not getting any of the drawbacks and all that happens? Isn't equality about the two being on the same playing field, so why can't males join in this talk about equality of the sexes? Unless you follow what I think modern feminism is about and is merely a means to get females (of specific bits) as high as they can and bring others down/remove any of the downsides along with them.

Is feminism needed? Vague comment aside, perhaps you should look into the things regarding males and females and see the differences and if they are indeed equal, unfair, justly the way they are. Also, it depends on what you exactly mean. If you're talking about equality of the sexes, yeah there's some things that can be looked into, a lot of international stuff needing fixing. Some stuff to analyze and see if it truly is unfair and separate the truth from fiction in many things.

It's not so cut and dry to say something that doesn't look even and say "that's unfair or wrong" without looking at the context or the plausible reasonings behind it.

Also, following your logic, that'd mean females don't have a say regarding MRA. Or hell, BLM on BlueLM. Perhaps other things and all that. You see what I'm getting at? this little segregation thing you're implying only really helps adding to some kind of "Us vs. Them" when in reality peeps are willing to work things out together as it has always been.

Like dude, be reasonable. (Though I'm honestly debating if this is sh**posting or whatnot heh)

Vragon2.0 said:

(Though I'm honestly debating if this is sh**posting or whatnot heh)

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Definitely serious, sadly enough. I've read enough of her posts to confirm that.