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Why is Normal Garchomp not Nerfed?

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    • Seen Oct 1, 2020
    Battling Garchomp online is pretty frustrating since people use Mega Scizor incase of Aloloan Ninetales was meant to be Garchomp's worst nightmare. Then Garchomp could take down Fire type Pokemon pretty easy. I think Garchomp should get nerfed for the next generation since it was pretty reliable.

    I just wished that Game Freak has actually nerfed Garchomp for Pokemon Sun and Moon but they didn't.

    But at least the burn, paralysis, confusion, thunder wave, ate abilities, parental bond, gale wings are nerfed.

    I wonder if there is other Pokemons or moves suggested to be nerfed?
     

    Nah

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    Garchomp's not broken or anything, it doesn't need nerfs.

    People pairing it with stuff that handles stuff it doesn't like is....kinda what you're supposed to do in battles.
     

    Frozocrone

    Fighting a bigger fight
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  • Garchomps great but it's not overcentralizing. The only thing really suspect about it was it's unique speed tier back in 4th and even then, it was mainly because of Sand Veil it was 'broken'.

    Take away evasion and Garchomp is just a better Flygon.
     

    classiccartoonsftw

    Nintendo is for awesome people
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    I think Garchomp is fine as it is. If you ask me, Game Freak should've nerfed Mega Gengar (not regular Gengar!), Landorus, Genesect, Aegislash, Hoopa-U, and Blaziken and its Mega. Maybe Chansey and Confuse Ray too.
     

    Sirfetch’d

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    Chomp is a very good Pokemon but not even remotely into the "broken" discussion. It has a plethora of checks and outright counters. It's speed tier is also underwhelming at 102, leaving it outsped and revenge killed easily.
     

    Zeffy

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    Garchomp is nowhere near as threatening as it was back during Gen IV, but it's still a solid Pokémon all around. If there's anything that needs nerfing, I think it should be the distribution of Scald (or maybe a nerf in base power), but I don't know how that would go lol
     
    293
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    • Seen Oct 1, 2020
    OK Garchomp might be nice to have then. I should find a faster Pokemon that can use Ice Beam to One Shot Garchomp.

    Looks I should think about getting Greninja for the competitive scene in case of Garchomp and have Focus Sash and should I run either Battle Bond or Protean?
     

    Nah

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    Looks I should think about getting Greninja for the competitive scene in case of Garchomp and have Focus Sash and should I run either Battle Bond or Protean?
    Either ability is fine for it, Sash is probably not necessary though
     

    PlatinumDude

    Nyeh?
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  • Do you any good ideas for Greninja's item?

    Life Orb for Protean variants, Choice Specs for Battle Bond variants. This is because Protean Greninja needs to change moves freely, while Battle Bond Greninja is more focused on revenge killing and breaking things with its STAB attacks, given the lack of Protean:
    -Hydro Pump/Extrasensory
    -Ice Beam
    -Gunk Shot
    -Hidden Power (Fire/Electric)/Extrasensory
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Protean

    or
    -Hydro Pump
    -Dark Pulse
    -Water Shuriken
    -U-turn
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Battle Bond
     
    293
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    • Seen Oct 1, 2020
    Life Orb for Protean variants, Choice Specs for Battle Bond variants. This is because Protean Greninja needs to change moves freely, while Battle Bond Greninja is more focused on revenge killing and breaking things with its STAB attacks, given the lack of Protean:
    -Hydro Pump/Extrasensory
    -Ice Beam
    -Gunk Shot
    -Hidden Power (Fire/Electric)/Extrasensory
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Protean

    or
    -Hydro Pump
    -Dark Pulse
    -Water Shuriken
    -U-turn
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Battle Bond

    That might work tough but I don't like to use moves that has less than 90 accuracy.
     
    2
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    • Seen Oct 24, 2017
    Okay first, Garchomp has a quad weakness to Ice. Blizzard, Ice beam, Ice Punch, literally any ice type move will KO Garchomp in one, maybe two hits (Except Ice shard and Icicle Spears). Second, In Sun/Moon they made Mega-Evolution speed stat change instant, which means Mega Garchomp won't move first like it did in Gen 4-6 and have the power boost. Get a Weavile/Froslass, Garchomp won't even be able to make a move without getting KO'd (Unless you have him maxed out Def/ Sp. Def or a Focus Sash). Like Michonne said, Garchomp's speed is terrible, and then gets reduced when he Mega-Evolves. Although I will admit Garchomp's Atk/Def are excellent, and he is a pseudo-legendary.

    Honestly Garchomp isn't overpowered. Sure he is strong/bulky if you want him to be, and an annoyance to fight, but you can't possible say Garchomp is overpowered when we have Toxapex.

    If any pokemon deserves a nerf it's Toxapex with Baneful Bunker and Regenerate/Merciless. Toxapex with Baneful Bunker, Recover, Poison Jab, and Liquidation. Train it to have 252 Ev's in Def/Sp Def and 4 in Hp, it literally cannot die.
     

    PlatinumDude

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  • Okay first, Garchomp has a quad weakness to Ice. Blizzard, Ice beam, Ice Punch, literally any ice type move will KO Garchomp in one, maybe two hits (Except Ice shard and Icicle Spears). Second, In Sun/Moon they made Mega-Evolution speed stat change instant, which means Mega Garchomp won't move first like it did in Gen 4-6 and have the power boost. Get a Weavile/Froslass, Garchomp won't even be able to make a move without getting KO'd (Unless you have him maxed out Def/ Sp. Def or a Focus Sash). Like Michonne said, Garchomp's speed is terrible, and then gets reduced when he Mega-Evolves. Although I will admit Garchomp's Atk/Def are excellent, and he is a pseudo-legendary.

    Honestly Garchomp isn't overpowered. Sure he is strong/bulky if you want him to be, and an annoyance to fight, but you can't possible say Garchomp is overpowered when we have Toxapex.

    If any pokemon deserves a nerf it's Toxapex with Baneful Bunker and Regenerate/Merciless. Toxapex with Baneful Bunker, Recover, Poison Jab, and Liquidation. Train it to have 252 Ev's in Def/Sp Def and 4 in Hp, it literally cannot die.

    Mega Garchomp is outclassed by its regular form, even in the previous generation, simply because of the Speed drop. Garchomp's Speed isn't "terrible" per se; it's still good, but not bad, either. It's good in that it outspeeds base 100s, but not good enough to outspeed base 105s-110s. Simply taking Garchomp down with an Ice move is easier said than done because outside of Greninja and Weavile, Pokemon with Ice coverage tend to be slower than Garchomp (no, Froslass doesn't count because it's not viable in my eyes). Getting those faster Pokemon with in safely is a bit of a challenge because of their frailty; they're best brought in to revenge kill. I have to admit, Garchomp also struggles with Ice Shard users, but it's always had that problem, even during its introduction.

    Toxapex is only good with Regenerator. If you're using Merciless Toxapex, you're wasting its potential simply because it's not strong enough to take advantage of it. Baneful Bunker wastes a moveslot because of this reasoning:

    AccidentalGreed said:
    The ladder is still infatuated with Baneful Bunker despite the prevailing reason in this thread, so I'm dropping by with a PSA on what makes Protect moves work in singles:
    Aegislash is great with King's Shield because the opponent has to respect it: the alternative is Aegislash getting off a powerful Shadow Ball/etc. It also helps you change forms, makes up for your lack of recovery and beat physical attackers that rely on contact moves like Knock Off and Flare Blitz.
    Heatran is great with Protect because the opponent has to respect it: the alternative is Heatran getting off a powerful Lava Plume/etc. It also makes up for your lack of recovery and can mess with HJK users, as you're weak to the move.
    Chesnaught is pretty good with Spiky Shield because the opponent has to respect it: the alternative is Chesnaught setting up another layer or getting off a powerful Wood Hammer/etc. It also combos well with Leech Seed.
    Anything with Wish needs Protect because it's a useful two-part combo for consistently recovering.
    Toxapex possesses none of these qualities, namely that no one needs to respect Toxapex. It's much less risky to just setup/recover/etc. on the prediction than pretty much any other Protect user. Its attacks are embarrassingly weak, and even Burn damage is pretty unimpressive now, so the opponent doesn't need to respect the alternative that you may attack them. Toxapex in no way needs to compensate for a lack of recovery, as you have multiple avenues for recovering lots of health (Recover, Regenerator, Black Sludge). It's pointless in screwing with HJK users because you eat up the attack anyway. In fact, there is barely a single contact move that hits you super effectively: Zen Headbutt is literally the only one I can think of, and one of its best users (Metagross) is immune to Poison anyway. Literally the only thing you have to worry about is Scald burns, which are easier than ever to play around this generation, so there's no imperative to attack Toxapex over using another move.

    Merciless has been thoroughly deBUNKed as a viable ability already, but even if it weren't, why the hell would you run Baneful Bunker on that set? Recover and Venoshock are non-negotiable because you lack Regenerator and need a high-powered move for poisoned targets. You need a method to deal with Steels and Poisons, so probably a Water move? Then you need a way to actually trigger Poison, for which you have three options. Toxic is by far the most reliable, Toxic Spikes is possibly workable if your opponent has low hazard control, and Baneful Bunker...is useless against non-contact attackers or one that simply ignore it. Even if you drop Recover or your non-Poison move for some reason, I'd still rather run Toxic + Toxic Spikes over Baneful Bunker in any capacity.

    Toxapex is an amazing Pokemon if it plays to its strengths. Stop misusing it by wasting a moveslot on Baneful Bunker to become a bargain bin Aegislash.

    The only offensive move worth using on it is Scald for the burn chance. If you're dealing with a defensive Pokemon's EVs, use max HP first before going for the defensive stat(s) because maxing out both defenses first is very inefficient, unless the Pokemon's HP is significantly higher than its defenses. For all intents and purposes, Toxapex shouldn't go that route because of its stat spread; max HP/max Defense serves Toxapex just fine anyway.
     
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