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Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

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srinator

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    PlatinumDude said:
    As weird as it sounds, Infernape can even go defensive to check/counter Dark, Steel and Grass Pokemon, as well as Charizard Y (yes, I listed Charizard because it doesn't run Air Slash, bulky Infernape can take hits from it, and can PP stall Focus Blast and stall out sun turns). Here's the set if you're curious:
    -Close Combat/Low Kick
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Taunt/Stealth Rock
    -Slack Off
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP/212 Def/44 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Click to expand...
    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD Infernape in Sun: 231-272 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Let's say it hits at 70, u got 30 left and slack off, u got 80 which puts in a comfortable position to die. It's not stalling char y anyday
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • static said:
    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0- SpD Infernape in Sun: 231-272 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Let's say it hits at 70, u got 30 left and slack off, u got 80 which puts in a comfortable position to die. It's not stalling char y anyday
    Click to expand...

    You're getting the wrong idea. You're calculating with a -Special Defense nature here:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Infernape in Sun: 207-245 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It's a 2HKO regardless, but you had the wrong nature. Infernape could come in if a few Sun turns have gone by.

    Then again, bulky Infernape can also go specially defensive to better handle Charizard Y:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Infernape in Sun: 145-171 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Physically defensive Infernape is for things like Scizor and Weavile. That was what I meant earlier.
     
    KorpiklaaniVodka

    KorpiklaaniVodka

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    • If you ask me MixApe and the other offensive sets are better than the defensive one, as the latter is a bit too specific and is still kinda frail. Checking Weavile, Scizor and Bisharp is nice, but it doesn't really have the bulk to tank other physical attacks in the long run. At least MixApe is able to whack balanced teams for some good damage and SD/NP threatens stall quite a bit, while the lead set can both weaken something to 1HP and set up SR if you play it correctly.
     
    Anti

    Anti

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    • PlatinumDude said:
    You're getting the wrong idea. You're calculating with a -Special Defense nature here:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Infernape in Sun: 207-245 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    It's a 2HKO regardless, but you had the wrong nature. Infernape could come in if a few Sun turns have gone by.

    Then again, bulky Infernape can also go specially defensive to better handle Charizard Y:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Infernape in Sun: 145-171 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Physically defensive Infernape is for things like Scizor and Weavile. That was what I meant earlier.
    Click to expand...

    this is as nitpicky as a nitpick can get. if something can take up to 80% from something's stab attack, can't outspeed it (or won't with those ridiculously specialized evs), and can't damage it at all, it's not a check. that's just way too specialized for oras.

    (also, include stealth rock in your calcs.)

    AmourPearlShipper said:
    If you ask me MixApe and the other offensive sets are better than the defensive one, as the latter is a bit too specific and is still kinda frail. Checking Weavile, Scizor and Bisharp is nice, but it doesn't really have the bulk to tank other physical attacks in the long run. At least MixApe is able to whack balanced teams for some good damage and SD/NP threatens stall quite a bit, while the lead set can both weaken something to 1HP and set up SR if you play it correctly.
    Click to expand...

    do you have one or more examples of a good mixape team, preferably one where its slot couldn't be better filled by something else? i don't necessarily disagree, but i'd want a little evidence.
     

    srinator

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    I found some
    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:


    Spoiler:
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • Anti said:
    this is as nitpicky as a nitpick can get. if something can take up to 80% from something's stab attack, can't outspeed it (or won't with those ridiculously specialized evs), and can't damage it at all, it's not a check. that's just way too specialized for oras.

    (also, include stealth rock in your calcs.)
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, bad example on my part. D:
     
    KorpiklaaniVodka

    KorpiklaaniVodka

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    • Anti said:
    do you have one or more examples of a good mixape team, preferably one where its slot couldn't be better filled by something else? i don't necessarily disagree, but i'd want a little evidence.
    Click to expand...

    Spoiler:

    And if you want, here is the team I made around MixApe.
    Spoiler:
     

    2Fruit

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    • Seen Apr 1, 2019
    I still like Regular Infernape better. I mean, If you want a mixed attacker, why not Thunderus?
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • 2Fruit said:
    I still like Regular Infernape better. I mean, If you want a mixed attacker, why not Thunderus?
    Click to expand...

    Against stall, Thundurus can lure in Chansey, cripple it with Knock Off, then go for the finish with Superpower.

    Infernape has the virtue of having wider coverage options than Thundurus, so it still gets merit.
     
    Polar Spectrum

    Polar Spectrum

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    • I enjoy Infernape's STAB combination + coverage in doubles better than I do more popular choices such as mega Char Y. Plus, in the rare instance it has the opportunity to get that nasty plot up, that heat wave is just as devastating if not moreso than that of his classier mega counterpart.

    If those diamond and pearl remakes happen after next gen too; infernape will doubtlessly be given a mega.
     
    KorpiklaaniVodka

    KorpiklaaniVodka

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    • 2Fruit said:
    I still like Regular Infernape better. I mean, If you want a mixed attacker, why not Thunderus?
    Click to expand...

    Mixed Thundurus is weaker overall and has worse coverage, which means it's not as useful against bulky balance and stall teams. The extra Speed helps a lot against offense, since you outspeed Keldeo, Lati@s and Mega Meta/Diancie (and even Heliolisk but that's really rare).
     
    skyburial

    skyburial

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    • Polar Spectrum said:
    Plus, in the rare instance it has the opportunity to get that nasty plot up, that heat wave is just as devastating if not moreso than that of his classier mega counterpart.
    Click to expand...

    I seem to recall a certain multi battle where we took the match with that combo :)

    I wonder if that video is still banging around in my Vs. Recorder...

    EDIT: Totally found it.

    YC8G-WWWW-WW2C-WU34
     
    Last edited:
    KorpiklaaniVodka

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    • Reason why Gothitelle shouldn't be banned according to the OU chat:

    Spoiler:
    So basically, they don't want to ban Gothi because M-Sableye exists, Weavile and Bisharp are common and stall is shit... wtf

    well i originally posted this in the battle videos thread lol

    edit: moar log...
    Spoiler:


    #Trickster: but gothitelle is really bad so it kind of balances itself on it
    #Trickster: i'm not calling gothitelle a bad pokemon
     
    Last edited:
    Dark Azelf

    Dark Azelf

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    • Online now
    Once again "the metagame is warped around offense bias" in regards to bans and suspect tests lol, that log basically sums it up and backs up everything ive said. If a poke shits on senpai offense OMG BAN IT NOW 100% BAN VOTES but buttfucks stall and bulky offense? Np lern 2 play etc. :\ The majority of players make me sick with this mindset. So glad i quit.

    Speaking of which, how the fuck is Goth shit against offense? I guess trapping Keldeo, Clefable, Manaphy, Breloom and friends doesnt count? How about Lopunny, Starmie etc? Or ~50% stuff like Serperior and Azumarril? Last time i checked these pokemon were abundant on offense. Also i enjoy how even if "Goth is shit against offense" it can still trick a scarf onto stuff like Bisharp or Lati@s and change games and ruin them. No more 50/50's with Bisharp or Lati@s useless at its job with a scarf etc. Even when its "allegedly" useless, Goth STILL fucks something.

    Lastly loving the double standards and irrelevance of "but Bisharp and Weavile are things so Goth isnt broken". Firstly by the time you have got said pokemon in, Goth has already trapped and killed another pokemon on your team unless you 100% win double switches (good luck lol). Secondly couldnt you know, say, "well assault vest Goodra and Rotom-W are things lol mega gar and mega ray arent broken". :|
    Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!
     
    Last edited:
    skyburial

    skyburial

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    • Not that I'm not itching to revisit the same tired conversation we've been having about Gothitelle for the last 3 months, but I was awfully curious.

    What do the little teams under our avatars signify?
     

    Detox

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    Dark Azelf said:
    Once again "the metagame is warped around offense bias" in regards to bans and suspect tests lol, that log basically sums it up and backs up everything ive said. If a poke shits on senpai offense OMG BAN IT NOW 100% BAN VOTES but buttfucks stall and bulky offense? Np lern 2 play etc. :\ The majority of players make me sick with this mindset. So glad i quit.

    Speaking of which, how the fuck is Goth shit against offense? I guess trapping Keldeo, Clefable, Manaphy, Breloom and friends doesnt count? How about Lopunny, Starmie etc? Or ~50% stuff like Serperior and Azumarril? Last time i checked these pokemon were abundant on offense. Also i enjoy how even if "Goth is shit against offense" it can still trick a scarf onto stuff like Bisharp or Lati@s and change games and ruin them. No more 50/50's with Bisharp or Lati@s useless at its job with a scarf etc. Even when its "allegedly" useless, Goth STILL fucks something.

    Lastly loving the double standards and irrelevance of "but Bisharp and Weavile are things so Goth isnt broken". Firstly by the time you have got said pokemon in, Goth has already trapped and killed another pokemon on your team unless you 100% win double switches (good luck lol). Secondly couldnt you know, say, "well assault vest Goodra and Rotom-W are things lol mega gar and mega ray arent broken". :|
    Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!
    Click to expand...

    I thought you were retired
     
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