UC Burkeley Riot

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

1,500 protestors arrived to protest the event, but it quickly broke down into utter chaos. The article misses some stuff like the 'agitators' breaking into a car and pulling the owner out to beat him up, but is good overall. There were 150 men and women dressed in all black throwing molotov cocktails, rocks, and fireworks.

What do you all think of this?

I feel like this is a classic example of good intentions gone wrong. As a college student myself, I understand the protest as a whole. But the second that you get violent like that...you're not helping your cause anymore. In fact, you're not helping anyone. You can be as angry as you want. Scream, curse, do whatever. But the second that you even consider harming another human being and/or property, you've gone too far.

Tsk tsk. Some people can't control their tempers. It's a good thing our elected leaders aren't like that. Oh.

Of course, when you have a protest, especially one at a place famous for protests like UC Berkeley, I'm always at least a little suspicious about any violence that occurs. Sending in provocateurs is a longstanding tactic used to discredit honest protests. It happened recently to the protests at Standing Rock and I wouldn't be surprised to learn it happened here. I'll personally wait to here from people who were there. Just color me suspicious for now.

But even if the people being violent were genuine leftist that doesn't diminish from the majority of the people who were there to protest the arrival of a neo-Nazi to speak at their school. Like, I get that violence is a double-edged sword, that using it as a form of protest is risky at best, but I can understand people being upset at white supremacists being invited to one's school, even if it wasn't the school itself that offered the invitation (it was a group of student Republicans).

Meanwhile, Milo's book sales have gone up 12000%, he got even more mainstream exposure, and UC Berkeley might be in danger of being defunded.

Some of the people in there who chanted "Love Trumps Hate" are now resorting to violence and riots to try to make their point- anyone else see the irony?

Aeroblast said:

Meanwhile, Milo's book sales have gone up 12000%, he got even more mainstream exposure, and UC Berkeley might be in danger of being defunded.

Some of the people in there who chanted "Love Trumps Hate" are now resorting to violence and riots to try to make their point- anyone else see the irony?

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UC Berkeley being defunded is very likely just bluster. It's a very prestigious institution and is one of the "Public Ivies". Anyone foolish enough to defund it will likely bring so much ire to themselves from alumni of the school that they'd be better served not re-running for their post when their current term ends.

I've seen rumors about (though I haven't been had the time to research it) that indicate an anarchist group deliberately sought to use the protests as a way to slip into town unnoticed and then perpetrate violence and use the other protesters as the public's scapegoat.

Esper said:

Tsk tsk. Some people can't control their tempers. It's a good thing our elected leaders aren't like that. Oh.

Of course, when you have a protest, especially one at a place famous for protests like UC Berkeley, I'm always at least a little suspicious about any violence that occurs. Sending in provocateurs is a longstanding tactic used to discredit honest protests. It happened recently to the protests at Standing Rock and I wouldn't be surprised to learn it happened here. I'll personally wait to here from people who were there. Just color me suspicious for now.

But even if the people being violent were genuine leftist that doesn't diminish from the majority of the people who were there to protest the arrival of a neo-Nazi to speak at their school. Like, I get that violence is a double-edged sword, that using it as a form of protest is risky at best, but I can understand people being upset at white supremacists being invited to one's school, even if it wasn't the school itself that offered the invitation (it was a group of student Republicans).

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Milo is a gay Jew that enjoys having sex with black men. Hardly a Neo-Nazi white supremacist. There is no evidence to suggest he is a white supremacist.

Its incredibly ironic that the violent rioters were trying to prevent free speech and were committing acts of political violence against a gay Jew. Im not calling them Nazis, but to call themselves antifascists is very inaccurate.

The provocateurs were 100% legit. Many of them came from the left-anarchist group in Oakland, where police say they have trouble with them. Milo also prepared a special costume for this specific event and had a donator cover the $6,000 or so security cost. The agitators were not there to delegitimize the protest. In addition, the legit protestors actually rushed the police barricades, after which the police actually retreated inside the building.

donavannj said:

UC Berkeley being defunded is very likely just bluster. It's a very prestigious institution and is one of the "Public Ivies". Anyone foolish enough to defund it will likely bring so much ire to themselves from alumni of the school that they'd be better served not re-running for their post when their current term ends.

I've seen rumors about (though I haven't been had the time to research it) that indicate an anarchist group deliberately sought to use the protests as a way to slip into town unnoticed and then perpetrate violence and use the other protesters as the public's scapegoat.

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You never know with Trump, even though I also think it's not actually going to happen. What on earth were the police doing, though?

On another note, Antifa needs to be declared a domestic terrorist organization ASAP because that's what it is. It's a disgusting group that harms both sides of the political divide, ironically more so for the side that they proclaim to support. And celebrities cheering this on and promoting violence can **** off too while we're at it.

As an aside, I'm not saying that protests shouldn't be allowed. I had no problem with Women's March even though I thought it was a mess. Milo is a self-proclaimed (also actual) provocateur and a divisive figure, but that doesn't mean violence can be used against him or his supporters.

Aeroblast said:

You never know with Trump, even though I also think it's not actually going to happen. What on earth were the police doing, though?

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It wouldn't even be Trump's decision to make anyway, since UC Berkeley is funded by the state of California.

donavannj said:

It wouldn't even be Trump's decision to make anyway, since UC Berkeley is funded by the state of California.

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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uc-federal-funding-20170202-story.html

The federal government grants a lot of money.

BadSheep said:

Hardly a Neo-Nazi white supremacist. There is no evidence to suggest he is a white supremacist.

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His racist twitter remarks toward Leslie Jones say otherwise. So does his involvement with Breitbart, a white supremacist / neo-Nazi "news" site. I don't know how someone can square being Jewish with all that, but it's not like he can't be self-hating or otherwise distance himself from his heritage or whatnot. So he feels like finding black men attractive somehow absolves him of all the racists remarks and actions of his fellows? Compartmentalization. Actions speak louder and his continued support of extremist views speaks volumes.

donavannj said:

It wouldn't even be Trump's decision to make anyway, since UC Berkeley is funded by the state of California.

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True, but things like federal student aid could be affected and the state would have to step in to cover the costs there. Of course Trump can't do anything without Congress changing the laws. Which I hope they'll have the spine not to do, but who knows now.

Esper said:

His racist twitter remarks toward Leslie Jones say otherwise. So does his involvement with Breitbart, a white supremacist / neo-Nazi "news" site. I don't know how someone can square being Jewish with all that, but it's not like he can't be self-hating or otherwise distance himself from his heritage or whatnot. So he feels like finding black men attractive somehow absolves him of all the racists remarks and actions of his fellows? Compartmentalization. Actions speak louder and his continued support of extremist views speaks volumes.

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Quote or link the tweet that was racist please.

Also, do you have any evidence he is self-loathing? If you know anything about Milo, you would know he is certainly not afraid to say his is gay or Jewish. He doesnt distance himself in the slightest.

Stop labeling stuff you dont like "white supremacist" or "Neo-Nazi." Ben Shapiro, another Jew, was actually taught by the founder of Breitbart and wrote for the website. (He left because he thought the website was becoming way too pro-Trump and super, super biased) . True, Breitbart is shit, but you are making it out to be something it is not. And why would a Neo-Nazi website employ Ben Shapiro and Milo?

There are anti-Semitic white supremacists and non anti-Semitic white supremacists. What is new. TBH I'm not sure how representative his comments are of the groups he identifies with, he's a master troll first and foremost and then kind of special.

Political violence is hurting the left a lot more than the right. It just gives the right another way to spin their twisted victim narrative.

BadSheep said:

True, Breitbart is ****, but you are making it out to be something it is not. And why would a Neo-Nazi website employ Ben Shapiro and Milo?

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The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -Lenin

Mewtwolover said:

The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -Lenin

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I'm inferring that by that quote you suggest that Jewish people are controlling the far-right to lead it themselves and I don't get it.

SirBoglor said:

I feel like this is a classic example of good intentions gone wrong. As a college student myself, I understand the protest as a whole. But the second that you get violent like that...you're not helping your cause anymore. In fact, you're not helping anyone. You can be as angry as you want. Scream, curse, do whatever. But the second that you even consider harming another human being and/or property, you've gone too far.

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I don't personally agree with this; the violent protestors knew what they were doing. These violent protesters were rioting under the organization called Antifa, and their intentions were to threaten their political opposition into silence. Here's a few good examples of Antifa's despicable actions:

• Attacking people who are pro-Trump.
• Threatening a journalist's family over political differences.
• Threaten potential political allies.
• Attack innocent people because they conclude that they are Nazis in Berkeley.

These kind of despicable people are domesticate terrorists. Unlike the students, they want to incite political violence. From what I've seen, the branch in America seem to align themselves with either Anarcho-Communism or Anarcho-Syndicalism, which are violent ideologies. I could be wrong though.

Thepowaofhax said:

I don't personally agree with this; the violent protestors knew what they were doing. These violent protesters were rioting under the organization called Antifa, and their intentions were to threaten their political opposition into silence. Here's a few good examples of Antifa's despicable actions:

• Attacking people who are pro-Trump.
• Threatening a journalist's family over political differences.
• Threaten potential political allies.
• Attack innocent people because they conclude that they are Nazis in Berkeley.

These kind of despicable people are domesticate terrorists. Unlike the students, they want to incite political violence. From what I've seen, the branch in America seem to align themselves with either Anarcho-Communism or Anarcho-Syndicalism, which are violent ideologies. I could be wrong though.

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Antifa is a beast of its own, friend. I personally haven't researched about any public involvement, and do not know if there is any proof of that. But whether there is proof or not, understand that Antifa wasn't the group that I was talking about. I was talking about the students. While I doubt that 100% of the actual student protesters were non-violent, I'm willing to bet that most of them were if Antifa is involved.

Furthermore, any violent threatening of political opposition is something that both groups of Democrats and Republicans have been guilty of, and will continue to be guilty of. With both groups being so large, violent groups like Antifa are guaranteed to rise from the ranks, until we reach a world where everything is resolved peacefully and violence is frowned upon 100% of the time. Whether the protesters are on my side or not, I feel like it's important to state my disapproval of this violence.

I understand your disapproval of a group like Antifa. I completely disapprove of them as well. You can't hold your own views so highly, though. No party is free from politically violent supporters. Not yours. Not mine. But as long as we continue to publicly disapprove of groups like these as a whole, they will lose their power and die over time. At least, I certainly hope that they will.

SirBoglor said:

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I am aware you are talking about the students, however I wanted to make the distinction that the rioters were mainly outsiders from the campus. While no party is free from rioters, lest us not forget that the Alt-Right will seize this opportunity to paint themselves as the victim in these scenarios.. In fact, Milo's book hit number one on Amazon some time after this riot.

It's not that I hold these views so highly though, it's that I'd personally like to see these protesters charged with domestic terrorism and the fact that the police officers did nothing until it was too late.

Also, the reason why I call their ideologies violent is because they call for violent revolution and openly call for the destruction of our state. Unlike an AnCap or Anarcho-Pacifist, they don't have a doctrine of pacifism or only permit force if it's in self defense.

Kanzler said:

There are anti-Semitic white supremacists and non anti-Semitic white supremacists. What is new. TBH I'm not sure how representative his comments are of the groups he identifies with, he's a master troll first and foremost and then kind of special.

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I'd say he's a conservative libertarian. Not denying he's a provocateur but he even admits that part himself.

Thepowaofhax said:

Shnippity Snip

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Ah yes, the ol' "play the innocent victim the second that the enemy party's rioters get violent" routine. Not very fond of it, regardless of which side is guilty at the time.

Don't get me wrong, their ideologies are clearly violent. I totally agree there. And the rioters were indeed mainly campus outsiders? Interesting...

Idk about the domestic terrorism charges, though. It's hard to prove that sort of motive, and it's honestly a bit unfair to label all of the violent protesters as one terrorist bunch. The ones with clear public ties to Antifa or any similar group, though? Yeah, charge 'em. The others can just take the proper assault/vandalism charges.

As for any improper/slow police procedure, I'm sure that they're catching complete hell for it as we speak and will likely adjust themselves properly for any possible future riots.