[Spoilers] I think it is pretty much confirmed that series is set in a different universe

CidHazard said:

It's not really that complicated... retcons happen in comics all the time, but rarely do they impact the current/recent relationship of a character.

So having XY cameos would just link the SM series to the rest of the saga's. (Every single series has had a character return so they where all connected universe wise) Pikachu and Satoshi would just have a brand new origin story. that would also throw a wrench in the alternate universe theory...

Click to expand...

The problem with that is that we had no indication that they would outright retcon Ash, Misty, and Brock's friendship, or his rivalry with Gary especially, by treating them as if they never even existed. The fact that they even did that, and in a movie celebrating the 20th anniversary of the series in a manner akin to Dragon Ball: Path to Power, no less, is not exactly the kind of retcon that is likely to occur in comics and are usually a lot more serious and damaging. Usually, with the retcons you allude to, they either are comparatively minor, or otherwise in the case of Frasier are given some justification by indicating that he lied about his father due to a lack of respect for him to justify the change. This is more of a Metal Gear-level retcon, one that is more likely to damage the story overall. Hence, the fact that we need Misty and Brock, not to mention Gary, to not only appear in SM, but also make explicit what occurred in the past episodes and avert Movie 20's insinuation that they barely even existed. Otherwise, even if XY does appear, it's STILL an AU because of the stark differences between M20 (and by extension, SM) and the actual EP001 and Kanto by extension.

The movie's credits basically put all the past companions into the same basket, but the SM ones are consipcuously missing.

I think it's safe to assume that XY is part of the same continuity as the others, but the jury is still out on SM. And it doesn't seem that the writers are interested in any references to the past anymore (silly easter eggs nonwithstanding), so chances are that we'll never know for sure because they just don't care.

Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty much (though that being said, that one-shot manga meant to tie in SM to M20 hints that the events of the movie were a flashback Ash and Pikachu had after doing the third trial on Tonno, which if anything makes the Jury even more confused regarding SM's status). I still think it's stupid that the movie writers neglected to give Misty, Brock, and Gary bigger roles, especially when not only would that have worked for actually promoting the 20th anniversary, but more importantly, it also would have cut down on a lot of the speculation on whether SM was meant to be an alternate universe or not.

If XY is any indication, the only reference to the past will be a post-SM special featuring Clemont (and Sophocles probably) with no mention of Ash at all. So it won't even confirm that Ash was in Kalos.

Otherwise, I doubt they would only retcon (move to an AU, whatever) the original series but not XY. But it's a moot point because we're talking about an unlikely hypothetical.

Sorry i am not buying it. We don't need to have s character come back every time. The writers don't have to do anything fans want them to do. There is no evidence of SM series being alternate universe. There is plenty of evidence that this is the same Ash as past seasons. SM series being in a alternate universe is a made up rumor by those who can't accept what happen last region. This is the same Ash. The new movie is not canon to the show including the new series. I am not changing my mind because i know i am right.

No one cares what you think if you can't support your claim with actual evidence.

Unown Lord said:

No one cares what you think if you can't support your claim with actual evidence.

Click to expand...

Actually it is what you think they don't care. Proof is that Ash uses the same Pikachu, has the same mom and has the same goal. Also none of you have proven the possibity of an alternate version of the anime. Don't talk down to me because you will lose.

He has the same Pikachu (personality-wise), mom and even goal (to be a Pokemon Master) in the movie, so your points are completely moot.

The strongest evidence in favor of the movie being canon to SM is Ash's voice actress saying that in her mind, Ash had a journey in Kanto and then he went to school in Alola. That is, the other regions never happened. Now granted, she isn't a writer, but she would know if she was wrong about her headcanon.

Ash recognised Alolamola and Aqua Jet in SM033 too for what it's worth

Doesn't mean anything when the movie includes non-Kanto Pokemon and moves.

Unown Lord said:

He has the same Pikachu (personality-wise), mom and even goal (to be a Pokemon Master) in the movie, so your points are completely moot.

The strongest evidence in favor of the movie being canon to SM is Ash's voice actress saying that in her mind, Ash had a journey in Kanto and then he went to school in Alola. That is, the other regions never happened. Now granted, she isn't a writer, but she would know if she was wrong about her headcanon.

Click to expand...

Actually my points are valid as far as i can see. If you and others want to believe this is a different ash because of what happen in kalos then believe what you want. This is clearly spite towards ash losing the kalos league and creating an excuse to pretend the previous regions and seasons never happen.

SM Ash is the same Ash of all other 6 regions plus orange islands and battle frontier. I accepted this fact.

I made up my mind so arguing with me will only go in circles. There are other people you can all talk too.

Unown Lord said:

He has the same Pikachu (personality-wise), mom and even goal (to be a Pokemon Master) in the movie, so your points are completely moot.

The strongest evidence in favor of the movie being canon to SM is Ash's voice actress saying that in her mind, Ash had a journey in Kanto and then he went to school in Alola. That is, the other regions never happened. Now granted, she isn't a writer, but she would know if she was wrong about her headcanon.

Click to expand...

Wait... Rica Masamuto actually SAID that?! Even after she voiced Ash for 20 years?! She really needs to see a doctor then, because headcanon or not, there's definitely no other way she could just forget the other regions ever happened, especially when she played a major role for 20 years and thus ought to know better. And that stands whether the movie/SM is an AU or not.

She was talking about SM Ash, obviously. Not sure why you're getting worked up over it.

Unown Lord said:

She was talking about SM Ash, obviously. Not sure why you're getting worked up over it.

Click to expand...

I realize that, and I also realize it essentially means SM is an AU, but even still, to list it as her headcanon of Ash's journey, even in regards to whether it proves it's an AU or not, even if she's just talking about SM Ash, it just... well, it leads me to think she completely forgot about a large part of her career as Ash, which definitely concerns me and is a very bad thing in my book. It's like Goku's voice actress completely forgetting about Goku's exploits between the Red Ribbon Army saga and the Black Goku Saga when discussing what Goku's journey was like for her. I always get very concerned when people start forgetting very major details, that's all.

She hasn't forgotten anything. Just yesterday she said her favorite movie is the first one.

All she did was explain her view on SM Ash.

Unown Lord said:

She hasn't forgotten anything. Just yesterday she said her favorite movie is the first one.

All she did was explain her view on SM Ash.

Click to expand...

Fine, as long as she truly hasn't forgotten anything, it's fine by me, and either way certainly indicates SM is not in the same timeline as prior regions.

Alexander18 said:

Actually my points are valid as far as i can see. If you and others want to believe this is a different ash because of what happen in kalos then believe what you want. This is clearly spite towards ash losing the kalos league and creating an excuse to pretend the previous regions and seasons never happen.

SM Ash is the same Ash of all other 6 regions plus orange islands and battle frontier. I accepted this fact.

I made up my mind so arguing with me will only go in circles. There are other people you can all talk too.

Click to expand...

Relax Alexander this thread is about discussing the possibility of SuMo to be an alternate reality... why? because its fun.

I don't in any way carry spite towards the show because of the Kalos League loss... Heck I even defended the Satoshi's loss arguing that he was meant to be the Hero of Kalos rather than the champion...

Anyway, no one here is trying to change your mind here. We're just stating the current facts... Here's the thing... look at the name of the thread... "I Think it's pretty much confirmed that the series is set in a different universe"

You stated that you do not care about the evidence that we had stated... that's cool. It's your opinion... but you kept insisting that it wasn't, trying to change our minds that its not an alternate universe, with no other argument serve for 'I don't think its an alternate universe so it isn't'. While, again the point of the thread is to discuss the possibility.

Look I don't believe in the least that SuMo is set on an alternate universe... but that doesn't mean I can't talk about it.

If I hurt your feelings, sorry...

I think Rica might've meant that the series/movie is approached with the idea that he went right from Kanto to Alola, not that she personally has forgotten everything inbetween.

Unown Lord said:

He has the same Pikachu (personality-wise), mom and even goal (to be a Pokemon Master) in the movie, so your points are completely moot.

The strongest evidence in favor of the movie being canon to SM is Ash's voice actress saying that in her mind, Ash had a journey in Kanto and then he went to school in Alola. That is, the other regions never happened. Now granted, she isn't a writer, but she would know if she was wrong about her headcanon.

Click to expand...

Can you link to me to where she said this?

Not that I doubt you (episode 20 supports this with Ash only mentioning getting Pikachu from Professor Oak and traveling for a while before coming to Alola as well as the flashback in the first episode showing Ash shopping with his mom in Kanto and dropping five Pokeballs off at Oak's) but I'd like to see it for myself.

Lets all agree to disagree. I don't agree with the title of the thread because nothing is confirmed or even comes close to be confirmed. Unless the show provides further proof then i am not buying this theory just yet. In the mean time we can just enjoy SM anime and see how Ash handles the region which has no gyms this time.

Rad Dudesman said:

Can you link to me to where she said this?

Not that I doubt you (episode 20 supports this with Ash only mentioning getting Pikachu from Professor Oak and traveling for a while before coming to Alola as well as the flashback in the first episode showing Ash shopping with his mom in Kanto and dropping five Pokeballs off at Oak's) but I'd like to see it for myself.

Click to expand...

Sure thing. Here's the Japanese source (bottom tweets), and here's the translation.

Now to be fair, the conversation above Rica's quote is a fan asking the sound director, Mima, if Rica had misunderstood his tweet, and he replied by expressing disbelief at Rica's statement. Which is ridiculous, since Rica knows as much about the story as he does, and what she said had nothing to do with his awkwardly phrased tweet.

The bottom line is that the staff don't even seem to have a consensus on this whole debacle. Or perhaps, Rica is the only one who dares speak the truth. This sends a message that only a select few fans and Rica even care about continuity anymore.

As mentioned before, Rica Matsumoto seems to be claiming that SM Ash only went to Kanto prior to Alola. She's claiming that the journeys in Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos never happened, which I guess pretty much means SM is a reboot and alternate continuity altogether.