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Do you consider tool assisted RNG abuse cheating?

Do you think its cheating?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • No

    Votes: 5 83.3%
  • Total voters
    6
yamibakura95

yamibakura95

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    • Seen Apr 11, 2022
    Im playing Emerald on emulator. I found a guide on how to RNG using lua scripts and rng reporter. The guide suggested using sav editors and save states but after some experimentation i found i had no use for those. What i did was use lua scripts to track my frames, progress the game frame by frame, estimate IVs using rare candies then calibrate to get my desired frame.

    Do you consider this cheating? Because i use lua like a debug mode to show frames and play the game frame by frame to hit the target frames. The pokemons i obtained are legit though im not sure about the method. I use the speedup booster a lot as well.
     
    faf

    faf

    [b][color=#1acc14]Queen of Dragons[/color][/b]
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    • Hello and welcome to the forums! I've went ahead and moved your thread to Pokemon Gaming but I do want to clarify this:
    yamibakura95 said:
    i feel cheating was a more general issue...
    Click to expand...
    The difference between Pokemon General and Pokemon Gaming Central is that the former talks about the franchise as a whole (i.e. merchandise, favourite Pokemon, etc.) whereas your thread talks about game mechanics and therefore more suiting in the latter. If you have further questions about this then you can message the Pokemon General mods (myself or colours) and we can certainly answer your questions. Thank you!
     
    Last edited:
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Fafrir said:
    Hello and welcome to the forums! I've went ahead and moved your thread to Pokemon Gaming but I do want to clarify this:

    The difference between Pokemon General and Pokemon Gaming Central is that the former talks about the franchise as a whole (i.e. merchandise, favourite Pokemon, etc.) whereas your thread talks about game mechanics and therefore more suiting in the latter. If you have further questions about this then you can message the Pokemon General mods (myself or colours) and we can certainly answer your questions. Thank you!
    Click to expand...

    thank yo very much but i have already reposted my threads there myself
     
    TwilightBlade

    TwilightBlade

    All dreams are but another reality.
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    • No, I don't consider RNG abuse as cheating. The tools are available to anyone willing to do the work. Also, the Pokémon are legal. I've bred/caught many using the RNG methods, and had friends use these Pokémon in official tournaments.

    If you're trading them away (which you possibly aren't on Emerald), I would let the other party know just as a disclosure. Some folks are iffy about emulators, save states, RNG abuse, etc. If it's just for your purposes, have at it then.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    TwilightBlade said:
    No, I don't consider RNG abuse as cheating. The tools are available to anyone willing to do the work. Also, the Pokémon are legal. I've bred/caught many using the RNG methods, and had friends use these Pokémon in official tournaments.

    If you're trading them away (which you possibly aren't on Emerald), I would let the other party know just as a disclosure. Some folks are iffy about emulators, save states, RNG abuse, etc. If it's just for your purposes, have at it then.
    Click to expand...

    i actually never used save states.rnging with lua script is already very fast and easy as opposed to doing it manually so using save states seems rather lazy. and these pokemon were rnged to be used in emerald's battle frontier primarily (and they did an amazing job there).
     
    Sydian

    Sydian

    fake your death.
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    • i don't consider it cheating. it's manipulation, but you still have to put in work, and even saying that, it's like TB said in that the outside program is doing the really hard work anyway. the most you do, at least in gen 5 as i recall, is use chatots to switch frames and change your DS times around. it's not like using an action replay where an outside machine is actually changing the game code. and even then like...at this point in the series, i don't think anyone cares unless you're creating ultrahax bs and using it in battle, but there are more measures against that now than there were in, say, gen 3 and 4.

    also adding to what TB said, yes, if you're trading them away, i absolutely agree the other party should be aware that they were obtained via RNG manipulation. in my time, i've found people don't really care about that bc, again, it's not like hacking where you put in no work and just override the game. but still, people should know.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Sydian said:
    i don't consider it cheating. it's manipulation, but you still have to put in work, and even saying that, it's like TB said in that the outside program is doing the really hard work anyway. the most you do, at least in gen 5 as i recall, is use chatots to switch frames and change your DS times around. it's not like using an action replay where an outside machine is actually changing the game code. and even then like...at this point in the series, i don't think anyone cares unless you're creating ultrahax bs and using it in battle, but there are more measures against that now than there were in, say, gen 3 and 4.

    also adding to what TB said, yes, if you're trading them away, i absolutely agree the other party should be aware that they were obtained via RNG manipulation. in my time, i've found people don't really care about that bc, again, it's not like hacking where you put in no work and just override the game. but still, people should know.
    Click to expand...


    you know, epxerienced players can tell striaght of the bat if a pokemon is rnged. there are many times were i have seen a shiny with flawless ivs and im liked "wow i wonder what frame they got it at!" then i ask the ]player and they tell me it took them like a week of waiting to get it. RNG is pretty common, at least from what i see.
     
    Zeostar

    Zeostar

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    Somewhat, yes.

    If you were playing a board game with others, and started doing things that weren't intended, you would be called out for cheating. Even in speedruns, there's separate categories for manipulating RNG. It's not cheating in the sense that you've hacked into the game with an engine, but it is cheating in the sense that it was intended to be played a certain way.

    But if it's a single player experience, it's for your own enjoyment and I don't see why it matters. That's the joy of it, if you have fun that's what matters.
     
    Sheep

    Sheep

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    • ZeoStar summed up how I feel. I don't find it hugely cheating in the same sense as item multipliers and forcing shinies but it's not how the game was intended to be played, so I see it as cheating to an extent. But you do you! Feel free to trade them to others if they're fine with it, but I wouldn't flood wonder trade with them or anything personally.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Sheep said:
    ZeoStar summed up how I feel. I don't find it hugely cheating in the same sense as item multipliers and forcing shinies but it's not how the game was intended to be played, so I see it as cheating to an extent. But you do you! Feel free to trade them to others if they're fine with it, but I wouldn't flood wonder trade with them or anything personally.
    Click to expand...

    the thing is, the AI in battle tower uses pokemon with perfect natures and IVs which are a pain in the ass to obtain without RNG.
     
    Duck

    Duck

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    I don't think it's cheating because in order to cheat at something you need to have rules forbidding it. It might be abusing mechanics, exploiting a bug, modding or whatever, but it's not cheating because there isn't any rule or penalty associated with doing that.

    So, if you're using it in a tournament which forbids it, yeah, it's cheating.

    Trading it to somebody else? I'd warn them so they don't use it somewhere where it'd be cheating but I don't think it's cheating per se.

    If you're using it for convenience's sake in a single player experience, then, sure, go ahead. It's helping you make your game more fun for you, I really don't see the issue with that.
     

    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None

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    definitely not cheating in my book, unless its specifically made to be played a certain way, I believe we're meant to engage with a game in whatever way we choose/brings us the most satisfaction.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Radio said:
    I don't think it's cheating because in order to cheat at something you need to have rules forbidding it. It might be abusing mechanics, exploiting a bug, modding or whatever, but it's not cheating because there isn't any rule or penalty associated with doing that.

    So, if you're using it in a tournament which forbids it, yeah, it's cheating.

    Trading it to somebody else? I'd warn them so they don't use it somewhere where it'd be cheating but I don't think it's cheating per se.

    If you're using it for convenience's sake in a single player experience, then, sure, go ahead. It's helping you make your game more fun for you, I really don't see the issue with that.
    Click to expand...

    really? are there tournaments who forbid RNGed pokemon? How will they able to tell if its RNGed though? I mean, RNGed mons are perfecly legit after all.

    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None said:
    definitely not cheating in my book, unless its specifically made to be played a certain way, I believe we're meant to engage with a game in whatever way we choose/brings us the most satisfaction.
    Click to expand...

    emerald's battle tower, getting the gold shield, i dont thnink it can be done without perfect pokemon. Every vid i have seen with a 100+ win streak, the player always uses pokemon with perfect ivs
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    Duck

    Duck

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    yamibakura95 said:
    really? are there tournaments who forbid RNGed pokemon? How will they able to tell if its RNGed though? I mean, RNGed mons are perfecly legit after all.
    Click to expand...

    I meant it as an example. While uncommon, it's perfectly possible (and could even be somewhat fun) to do a tournament where "you have 24 h to build a team, all the way from capture to competitive readiness" or something like that.

    This way even though RNG pokémon are legit in the sense of the game, they'd likely be cheating because you have an advantage the others don't have (instead of doing the usual breeding methods for perfect IVs you used a tool to waste less time).

    The main point here is, unless there's an external ruleset saying "It's not allowed", I don't think it's cheating. At the same time, unless you're doing everything absolutely by the book, you probably should warn people if you're doing it in multiplayer.
     

    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None

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    yamibakura95 said:
    emerald's battle tower, getting the gold shield, i dont thnink it can be done without perfect pokemon. Every vid i have seen with a 100+ win streak, the player always uses pokemon with perfect ivs
    Click to expand...

    well that could have to do more with the type of player likely to take on that type of challenge in the first place, than actual need.

    If they're seriously trying for the tower 100 win streak, they're most likely completionist who'd want to perfect everything, so they'd also want "perfect" pokemon.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None said:
    well that could have to do more with the type of player likely to take on that type of challenge in the first place, than actual need.

    If they're seriously trying for the tower 100 win streak, they're most likely completionist who'd want to perfect everything, so they'd also want "perfect" pokemon.
    Click to expand...

    well, if there is no "need" for it then why dont you construct a team of pokemon with 0 ivs and bad natures and do it? If you plaed competitive pokemon, you should know that 1+/- at one stat can make a huge difference. 1 more hp or defense may allow your pokemon to survive an otherwise lethal attack and vice/versa, an extra 1ATK or SATK can allow you to maginally KO a pokemon.
     

    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None

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    yamibakura95 said:
    If you played competitive pokemon, you should know that 1+/- at one stat can make a huge difference. 1 more hp or defense may allow your pokemon to survive an otherwise lethal attack and vice/versa, an extra 1ATK or SATK can allow you to maginally KO a pokemon.
    Click to expand...

    1st don't be patronizing.
    2nd, the margins are never that slim that 1 point makes the difference, and if you're already maxing everything then you'd have no actual experience playing with things not completely optimized to even tell the difference.

    damage gets averaged anyway, so 1 point really doesn't make a difference.
     
    yamibakura95

    yamibakura95

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    Meister_anon~Master_o f_None said:
    1st don't be patronizing.
    2nd, the margins are never that slim that 1 point makes the difference, and if you're already maxing everything then you'd have no actual experience playing with things not completely optimized to even tell the difference.

    damage gets averaged anyway, so 1 point really doesn't make a difference.
    Click to expand...

    pls tell me how may gold symbols you got in emerald's battl frontier and/or if you got the gold shield. Because i have a feeling you didnt even touch it and you are one of these players that hear RNG and run away because you dont have the patience for it. Most people in competitve use perfect iv pokemon, its nothing extraordinary like you make it to be.

    Damage gets averaged but sometimes 1 more hp can be game changing. I also have in fact played with sub optimal pokemons and the difference was huge. Not only my rnged team did more damage it also had better survivability. You may not notice the difference in one battle but you will if you do 10 or more so.
     
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