Can we move on to hacking Gen 4 and 5 now?

Also just throwing this in there: we have NDS hacking tools already, so if someone was dedicated enough, they could make an NDS hack.

For those who are interested in NDS hacking, Mikelan, the creator of Pokemon light platinum ds, has released an alpha of a tool for creating maps in NDS pokemon games, called Mikelan's Map Maker. The download link is in Pokemon light platinum ds twitter.

Spherical Ice said:

I don't see why we should close a perfectly fine discussion because one participant is finished with it.

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I was thinking it would go overboard

It's largely pointless due to 3D models requiring more effort than pixel art. It's meant to be a hobbyist thing, not something you spend too much time on. Doubt we'd ever see a high-quality, original 3DS hack, and that at least has graphical upgrades. From a basic standpoint, everything worth taking from Gen IV and V can be added to III.

I understand.

Deokishisu said:

And I'm telling you the GBA can sustain more than two, because it can. I've consistently used "2+" when referring to how many regions it can do. The upper limit to regions in the GBA games is huge if you expand. You have upwards of 16MB of free space if you expand the ROM. Not all of the existing ROM holds scripts/maps/event data/etc. for the overworld; a lot of it is functions and back-end engine stuff. Firered has basically 1.5 regions in it already, and I bet I could fit 1 or 2 more in the existing free space if I was efficient and shifted some things around. With 16 extra megabytes of free space, you could throw 3 more in AT LEAST. And that's an extremely conservative estimate, it's probably more than double that if you're smart and reuse assets when possible. The **** you're talking about has to do with the skill of the hacker, and not with technical limitations. There isn't a hacker around who would want to torture themselves with a ridiculous 5 region hack, nor is there one good enough to make such an endeavor a good experience for any players who aren't idiots (i.e. the ones who can't discern quality, so the DarkRising and Co. fans). Sure, the DS is "better" if you want to fill up all possible space with 30+ regions. But literally no one would do that. No one has pushed the two region "boundary" that you're incorrectly attributing to hardware/space limitations with GBA ROMHacks because it's a lot of extra content that needs to be generated and would most likely suck, not because it isn't possible. Let me say that again. It's not because it can't be done. You don't need to try it to know that it works; the proof is in the space that's just sitting there being wasted in expanded ROMs. I'm not going to try it because I value my time and am not a masochist. In the time it would take to make an okayish 4 region hack, a great hacker could make a universe transcending 1 region hack that redefines ROMHacking and leaves every other hack in the dust forever.

Again, if the only thing you've done with a ROM is patch it and pop it in the emulator, you are not qualified to make an argument like this. You're incorrect in your assumption here and it is clear you don't know what you're talking about. This is not a reason to move to the DS. In fact, it is the worst reason that anyone has come up with to try and justify the move in this thread.

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Sorry about this guys. I honestly was thinking too straight forward

Mariow2 said:

Can we move on to hacking Gen 4 and 5 now?

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I don't get this question. Are we a collective here? If people want to hack Gen 4 and 5, it'll happen naturally, because they want to, not because "they can"

Gigadweeb said:

It's largely pointless due to 3D models requiring more effort than pixel art. It's meant to be a hobbyist thing, not something you spend too much time on. Doubt we'd ever see a high-quality, original 3DS hack, and that at least has graphical upgrades. From a basic standpoint, everything worth taking from Gen IV and V can be added to III.

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3D models are not the only thing that NDS have. I don't know if you know it or not but japanese hackers already invented a way to add more pokemons in Diamond/Pearl. But guess what, we will never be able to make a high quality NDS hack because not only we can't make it but also we can stop those who wants to make one.

everyone who is still posting, haven't you realised that I said I'm not intending on doing 4 gen hacking for now??

Mariow2 said:

everyone who is still posting, haven't you realised that I said I'm not intending on doing 4 gen hacking for now??

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Probably. But you raised a topic that people seem to want to talk about.

Mariow2 said:

everyone who is still posting, haven't you realised that I said I'm not intending on doing 4 gen hacking for now??

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This topic isn't about you and was never about you. You posed a question to the community and now the community is discussing it. This is what a forum is for. If you've already taken your conclusions from the posts, then you don't have to care that the discussion is still ongoing.

Le?mhann teine said:

First of all its Gaelic (Scottish) not Irish Gaelic. Second don't assume I'm Irish or Scottish just because that's the language my username comes from cause I'm American and the American dialect of English is my first language. Thirdly I said that "more than one" was not 2+. Cause it isn't you said it could be any number. However you said you only said 2+. In other words that wasn't entirely true.

Ok I concede you make your point (though you still only talked about the ROM and not the system).

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example: Pokemon cloud white(fire red hack)
regions: 5 in total
scenario time: >75hrs

works like a charm on my phone(in an emulator ofcourse)
here is your proof gba roms AND system can both handle many regions and in this case a total of 5!

That would be interesting to see. I'm hoping gen 4 and 5 can be romhacked.

Deokishisu said:

This topic isn't about you and was never about you. You posed a question to the community and now the community is discussing it. This is what a forum is for. If you've already taken your conclusions from the posts, then you don't have to care that the discussion is still ongoing.

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Maybe you are right, I was seeking if there was anyone interested in gen4 hacking, and now, this post is one of the post on the ROM hacking that keeps showing up almost everyday. The Truth is, I would like to try gen4 hacking. The DS Pok?mon titles are my favorites. But I'm just new to romhacking and I should try with something small. I'm just gonna sit around and see what happens with this thread next. Thanks for making me realize? although I should change the name of the thread. Maybe, "Can we make a start on Gen 4 and 5 hacking?" because some people will still be on GBA hacking long after this.

NEW ARGUMENTS!!

*Japanese hackers have recently discovered a way to expand Pok?mon on Japanese Diamond and Pearl!

*Pok?mon Gen 4 and 5 hacking tools have been around for a while now.

Pok?mon DS hacks can be professional if we put the effort and care into it.

My main beef with gen 3 hacking is people work off fire red far too much. That makes EV training a humongous pain, as there's no ev reducing berries. If people insist on making 3rd gen hacks still emerald should be the required ROM Base at this point...Otherwise it is time to move onto gen 4/5.

looneyman1 said:

My main beef with gen 3 hacking is people work off fire red far too much. That makes EV training a humongous pain, as there's no ev reducing berries. If people insist on making 3rd gen hacks still emerald should be the required ROM Base at this point...Otherwise it is time to move onto gen 4/5.

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No. Code to make EV reducing berries has been publicly released for many years.

Most people are hacking Gen III because we have great tools, tutorials and resources available. As it stands, hacking the DS is mostly a problem of understanding the hardware and reverse engineering the gamecode from almost scratch. If you or someone with the same beliefs felt the interest to do so, that'd be a front running breakthrough. Though I don't really see the point unless you develop a game that uses both displays and takes advantage of ALL the hardware. Why hack NDS games only to output games of the same quality of GBA slideshow hacks?

ASDBUDDY said:

example: Pokemon cloud white(fire red hack)
regions: 5 in total
scenario time: >75hrs

works like a charm on my phone(in an emulator ofcourse)
here is your proof gba roms AND system can both handle many regions and in this case a total of 5!

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Pokemon Cloud White has lot of bugs..that's why I hate this game

https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=393373 Pokemon mind crystal (a mod of soul silver) is a good example of a DS ROM HACK including fairy type

Mariow2 said:

Guys... I've been thinking that we should maybe move on to Gen 4 and 5 games to hack now. Although we have been getting use to Gen 3 for a while now and we've squeezed alot of work into them, I think is time we could make use of 3d models and better hardware and/or software. Lot's of gen 3 games seem to have minor changes and just seem to be not so entertaining, even a gen 2 titles like Pokemon prism seem more fun! (and that surprisingly has 3d graphics compared to our gen 3 hacks! >_>) I understand you may not agree with me, but if you think about it there are so many advantages and you can improve it even more like how we add rom bases to our Firered and emerald games {:3}

Complaint 1 - But DS pokemon hacks lack support and are MOST LIKELY harder to make.
Solution 1 - Nope, they don't actually lack support, if you simply search pokemon gen 4 hacking tools you will easily find tons (and I mean TONS) of pokemon gen 4 hacking tools like Project pokemon rom editor or some gen 4 and 5 pokemon editors like Jackhack96's tool factory and just search pokemon gen 5 hacking tools and you'd be bombared with lot's of black and white hacking content. Even then, if you can't find anything, the only way you can have more support if you and more people make the tools to support!

Complaint 2 - There aren't many DS emulators out there!
Solution 2 - Yes there is, there is no$gba which supports GBA and DS roms! And there are emulators that also only support DS like desmume if you wanna keep visualboyadvance for your GBA and GBC games.

Complaint 3 - But we have everything we need on GBA pokemon hacking, it's gone so far!
Solution 3 - With DS pokemon hacking you have everything you need and more! Even if there isn't a rombase to add every single pokemon there, we still have to move on to make more. Rare wasn't familiar with the N64 at first when it came to making games, and they turned to be one of the consoles best publishers after a bit of getting use to, it could take a little getting use to and then be easy to hack ds pokemon titles!

Complaint 4 - But the game is newer and Nintendo will stop us from hacking on it!
Solution 4 - Nintendo will stop koolboyman from making an amazing pokemon hack (prism) on a 16 year old game!! Nintendo will just stop us hacking anything of their's, we still hack gen 3 titles even though Nintendo will try and stop us! Just get use to it!!

So, what I'm trying to say is that we need to move on and advance to Gen 4 and 5 hacking otherwise we might just end up with the same boring old hack, think of it! 3d Visuals! Greater graphics!! Better hardware. There's nothing stopping us to make a new different crowd and evolve our hacking world! Consider the change! Is good!

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Just inspired me to start ROM Hacking. Always been interested in it, yet I never really thought about doing it myself. I guess I'll start now :pink_boogie:

Mariow2 said:

I think is time we could make use of 3d models and better hardware and/or software.

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How exactly?
Even if all the ASMagicians of this community started to make researches on any of the Pok?mon NDS Games it would take a good while for people to come up with usable tools that make use of those investigations.

Mariow2 said:

Lot's of gen 3 games seem to have minor changes and just seem to be not so entertaining, even a gen 2 titles like Pokemon prism seem more fun! (and that surprisingly has 3d graphics compared to our gen 3 hacks!

) I understand you may not agree with me, but if you think about it there are so many advantages and you can improve it even more like how we add rom bases to our Firered and emerald games

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I didn't finished Prism yet, but 3D Graphics? On a GBC ROM? What I played of it hadn't anything like that.
Make use of 3D? In what incredible and astonishing way could you use the game's 3D Capabilities?
It's basically only used for maps and cutscenes, and I'm sure that manipulating them will be hard af.
You're definitely going to expend way more effort with them than with the 2D Maps of the Pok?mon GBA Games for a similar result. If anything, it'll be way easier to start using right now the Pok?mon Unity Engine.

And let's not forget how it took more than 10 years for the Pok?mon GBA ROM Hacking Scene to reach the state it is in today. Hell, the Pok?mon R/S Disassembly Project is finally reaching an usable state and once completed, it will probably open a lot of doors and make everything easier than ever before, even.

If Pok?mon Prism is more fun than the currently available GBA ROM Hacks or not is a subjective matter, but that wouldn't be the GBA Games fault at all, clearly.

Mariow2 said:

Complaint 1 - But DS pokemon hacks lack support and are MOST LIKELY harder to make.
Solution 1 - Nope, they don't actually lack support, if you simply search pokemon gen 4 hacking tools you will easily find tons (and I mean TONS) of pokemon gen 4 hacking tools like Project pokemon rom editor or some gen 4 and 5 pokemon editors like Jackhack96's tool factory and just search pokemon gen 5 hacking tools and you'd be bombared with lot's of black and white hacking content. Even then, if you can't find anything, the only way you can have more support if you and more people make the tools to support!

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Tools are done AFTER the investigations they take advantage of.
That's what's lacking in the 4th Gen. ROM Hacking Scene, well documented posts on how things works.

Mariow2 said:

Complaint 2 - There aren't many DS emulators out there!
Solution 2 - Yes there is, there is no$gba which supports GBA and DS roms! And there are emulators that also only support DS like desmume if you wanna keep visualboyadvance for your GBA and GBC games.

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Boy oh boy, where should I begin..
NO$GBA is a hacky, unstable, unaccurate and problematic emulator.
Martin Korth, its author, prioritized performance over accuracy and that summed with how he wrote it in assembly is the whole secret to his incredible performance.
Its audio quality.. gosh, it's absolutely awful.
Also, it does run GBA and DS Games, yes, but mostly with problems.

From the top of my head:
*Pok?mon Emerald lacks the fog effect on Verdanturf Tunnel, you literally can't see where you're going.
Here's a comparison, VBA to the left and NO$GBA on the right:

*Pok?mon HG/SS freezes randomly and there's no solid way to fix it. I'm sure that someday someone will find the way to disable that nuisance since it is most likely an anti-piracy measure implemented by Game Freak.
*For Pok?mon B1/W1 you need an Action Replay to get across a blue screen stating some problem with the cartirdge or something and you basically can't save your progress. I tried the Action Replay that should supposedly fix that, but it didn't.
Also, I think that the blue screen problem also applies to B2/W2 too.

Desmume also has the same freezing issues with HG/SS and its performance leaves a lot to be desired.

Right now, there's 2 competent emulators being slowly developed (MelonDS and Medusa) and the word of Exophase, creator of DraStic, that he would most likely eventually port DraStic to Windows x86.
Things might change in the future, but right now? They're looking bad.

Mariow2 said:

Complaint 3 - But we have everything we need on GBA pokemon hacking, it's gone so far!
Solution 3 - With DS pokemon hacking you have everything you need and more! Even if there isn't a rombase to add every single pokemon there, we still have to move on to make more. Rare wasn't familiar with the N64 at first when it came to making games, and they turned to be one of the consoles best publishers after a bit of getting use to, it could take a little getting use to and then be easy to hack ds pokemon titles!

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That was some weak marketing crap you just sputted over there.
"With DS pokemon hacking you have everything you need and more!"
... Except nothing because there's barely any research done on them!
Pok?mon Expansion? No.
Mega Evolution? No.
Item, Abilities or even Attacks Expansion? No, No and No again.
AT LEAST A SCRIPTING TUTORIAL..? Oh.. Nope, there's none.

Mariow2 said:

So, what I'm trying to say is that we need to move on and advance to Gen 4 and 5 hacking otherwise we might just end up with the same boring old hack, think of it! 3d Visuals! Greater graphics!! Better hardware. There's nothing stopping us to make a new different crowd and evolve our hacking world! Consider the change! Is good!

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Again, if you're after the 3D, you would have it way easier just using the Pok?mon Unity Engine linked above.
Greater graphics? The textures, OWs and sprites are in 2D, for pete's sake. Literally no different than the GBA Games.
Better hardware? What exactly are YOUR ideas on how to get advantage of it?
Nothing stopping us? You're wrong, the lack of information is stopping everything from moving.

Be my guest though, become the pioneer that this scene's so much needing.