Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

skyburial said:

Not that I'm not itching to revisit the same tired conversation we've been having about Gothitelle for the last 3 months, but I was awfully curious.

What do the little teams under our avatars signify?

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http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=351642

Syn said:

I thought you were retired

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I am, i can still point out stupid shit though. :)

So basically you're Charles Barkley

Dark Azelf said:

Once again "the metagame is warped around offense bias" in regards to bans and suspect tests lol, that log basically sums it up and backs up everything ive said. If a poke muks on senpai offense OMG BAN IT NOW 100% BAN VOTES but buttpsyducks stall and bulky offense? Np lern 2 play etc. :\ The majority of players make me sick with this mindset. So glad i quit.

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(i don't even disagree that there is a bias in tiering toward offense players, but you're overblowing it, and oras just isn't a stall meta through no fault of the metagame's tiering so it's naturally going to be less present in players' minds. you're like the guy who stands on street corners spamming bible verses telling sinners they're going to hell but not understanding why people are ignoring him.)

stop

Anti said:

(i don't even disagree that there is a bias in tiering toward offense players, but you're overblowing it, and oras just isn't a stall meta through no fault of the metagame's tiering so it's naturally going to be less present in players' minds. you're like the guy who stands on street corners spamming bible verses telling sinners they're going to hell but not understanding why people are ignoring him.)

stop

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The thing is by the time you send those pokemon in, Gothitelle would have already done its job by disabling another 'mon. He's not supposed to trap M-Meta or Talonflame, he's supposed to catch Latios at -2 or something, or a Keldeo using Secret Sword, and... trap them.

you're like the guy who stands on street corners spamming bible verses telling sinners they're going to hell but not understanding why people are ignoring him

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lol

Anti said:

(i don't even disagree that there is a bias in tiering toward offense players, but you're overblowing it, and oras just isn't a stall meta through no fault of the metagame's tiering so it's naturally going to be less present in players' minds. you're like the guy who stands on street corners spamming bible verses telling sinners they're going to hell but not understanding why people are ignoring him.)

stop

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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem subtle.

Why should i stop? Its kind of true and the log APS posted backs up what i said lol. There is actual evidence (i.e the log and player opinions) for what im saying so your example missed the point. The bible isnt actual evidence its hearsay. But lets not get into religion lol..

Also "its less present in players minds" is kind of irrelevant, im a stall player and if something shits on offense id still want it banned for example Greninja. So i just dont see how being ignorant of other playstyles holds water, sorry.

Lastly Lopunny, Politoed, weakened Thundurus and a not set up Talonflame are all slain by Gothitelle? If they are because those pokemon cause issues for offensive teams then thats ignorant and really cannot be compared to Gothitelle and what it does to all team archetypes for reasons i shouldnt have to explain. I hope its neither of those reasons. :\

AmourPearlShipper said:

The thing is by the time you send those pokemon in, Gothitelle would have already done its job by disabling another 'mon. He's not supposed to trap M-Meta or Talonflame, he's supposed to catch Latios at -2 or something, or a Keldeo using Secret Sword, and... trap them.

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i'm not talking about gothitelle. i'm suggesting that if offense players had the sway in tiering that he acts like they do, all the pokemon whose sprites i posted would be suspected and banned.

Why should i stop? Its kind of true and the log APS posted backs up what i said lol. There is actual evidence (i.e the log and player opinions) for what im saying so your example missed the point. The bible isnt actual evidence its hearsay. But lets not get into religion lol..

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that's cherrypicked and weak evidence. no one is buying it.

regardless, you say this in every single suspect thread that comes up. we get it. JUMP SHOOTING TEAMS CANNOT WIN AN NBA TITLE.

Also "its less present in players minds" is kind of irrelevant, im a stall player and if something muks on offense id still want it banned for example Greninja. So i just dont see how being ignorant of other playstyles holds water, sorry.

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metagame presence matters. let's say that a metagame is 10% ho, 80% balance, 10% stall. if that meta is getting tiered, balance breakers are going to be objectively more useful than stall breakers or anti ho mons. your tiering philosophy seems to be that we should remove everything that troubles stall to protect it as a playstyle irrespective of its presence in the metagame. but is this actually possible with the hand gamefreak dealt us? there's only so much you can do about a surplus of threats, and the truth is, pokemon has gotten to a point where there are going to be matchup mons like mega lopunny, mega alakazam, rush exca, or rain offense as a whole, for example. i just don't think what you seem to want bans to accomplish can actually be accomplished in tiering.

(if this is misrepresenting your tiering philosophy, then please correct me.)

Lastly Lopunny, Politoed, weakened Thundurus and a not set up Talonflame are all slain by Gothitelle? If they are because those pokemon cause issues for offensive teams then thats ignorant and really cannot be compared to Gothitelle and what it does to all team archetypes for reasons i shouldnt have to explain. I hope its neither of those reasons. :\

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did you notice how intentionally left out your stuff about gothitelle (b/c i think it's flagrantly broken lol?) and was responding exclusively to your unbearably myopic and self-righteous view of smogon tiering?

not to interrupt this enlightening conversation and double post (oh whatever), but did anyone see this?

i know very few people here have experience playing advance, but i found this more interesting as one of those moments where it dawns on you that we are in fact playing on a sim haha. how frail our metagames are :(

Anti said:

not to interrupt this enlightening conversation and double post (oh whatever), but did anyone see this?

i know very few people here have experience playing advance, but i found this more interesting as one of those moments where it dawns on you that we are in fact playing on a sim haha. how frail our metagames are :(

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they still find mechanics related to Gen 3 after so many years?

So Hoopa-U is finally out. But man it has almost nothing to offer defensively... 130 SpD is cool, but having no resistances is not... it's also got a piss-poor 60 def which means prio can revenge kill it easily, so the scarf set loses some of its effectiveness. I also think stall will adapt to it by starting to run more u-turn mons.

What do you think?

Its signature move can bypass Protect. Kill it with fire.

Unbound Hoopa can go physical or special, for one, but it tends to struggle with offensive teams because of its bad Defense, and the fact that Hyperspace Fury makes it even more physically frail:
-Zen Headbutt
-Hyperspace Fury
-Gunk Shot
-Ice Punch/Knock Off/Drain Punch
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band/Choice Scarf

or
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic/Psyshock
-Dark Pulse
-Focus Blast
Nature: Timid/Modest
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers

or
-Psychic
-Hyperspace Fury/Knock Off
-Gunk Shot
-Focus Blast/Knock Off
Nature: Hasty/Mild
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

Nasty Plot Hoopa-U sucks ass. It's pretty much useless against HO and balance/stall can wear it down through residual damage or by exploiting its shit physical bulk. Physical AoA is decent, but has worse coverage than the Special AoA imo (Psyshock/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast/HP Fire).

However this thing can't switch into anything, god fucking damn it. I need to try the AV and Sub+3 attacks, as well as possibly Scarf.

Oh yeah Hoopa's usable now. Almost forgot about it lol. Guess we'll see what it does in the meta. Thing kinda looks like a (slowish) glass cannon. Does it have the movepool to go mixed or does it seem more like it prefers to go one way or the other? And I don't think it really cares about the Defense drop from Hyperspace Fury since it's physical bulk is already garbage, like Lucario and Close Combat.

skyburial said:

Its signature move can bypass Protect. Kill it with fire.

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It's an event legend so it's banned for VGC and rated Battle Spot purposes, so you probably won't have to worry about it there.

Nah said:

Oh yeah Hoopa's usable now. Almost forgot about it lol. Guess we'll see what it does in the meta. Thing kinda looks like a (slowish) glass cannon. Does it have the movepool to go mixed or does it seem more like it prefers to go one way or the other? And I don't think it really cares about the Defense drop from Hyperspace Fury since it's physical bulk is already garbage, like Lucario and Close Combat.


It's an event legend so it's banned for VGC and rated Battle Spot purposes, so you probably won't have to worry about it there.

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The thing is that Luke resists Sucker Punch, ExtremeSpeed, Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. Hoopa-U has NO resistances (bar an immunity to psychic) and thus is much more vulnerable to prio.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 161-190 (57.2 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 366-432 (121.5 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

AmourPearlShipper said:

Nasty Plot Hoopa-U sucks ass. It's pretty much useless against HO and balance/stall can wear it down through residual damage or by exploiting its muk physical bulk. Physical AoA is decent, but has worse coverage than the Special AoA imo (Psyshock/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast/HP Fire).

However this thing can't switch into anything, god psyducking damn it. I need to try the AV and Sub+3 attacks, as well as possibly Scarf.

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The other sad part about Unbound Hoopa is that it gets boned badly by virtually every U-turn user.

Zeffy is like an Indian curupted official, he hoards all the prizes that were supposed to be awarded to their star athletes


I mean hoopa sux hurrdurr bla bla bla

kinda back been playing too much mh4u so i suck at battling now welp

anyway what shiz has been going on? :o

halcyonic said:

kinda back been playing too much mh4u so i suck at battling now welp

anyway what shiz has been going on? :o

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In case you missed the discussion earlier, Hoopa (Unbound) was released a day or two ago.