Opinions on Drug Legislation

Caaethil · Oct 17, 2016

What are the laws where you live on recreational drug use, and what do you think of them? Do you think drugs should be heavily controlled, or do you think people should have the right to put whatever they want into their bodies?

Personally, I think a lot of the problem's in today's society regarding drug use would be solved with decriminalization. I don't necessarily think it should be legal to actually produce them. With my limited economic knowledge I figure that they would be a lot cheaper, which would partially solve one of the biggest issues with drug use, which is people going broke because of it and spending money which is needed for other things. Some people end up stealing just to afford drugs, and I think stealing is a lot worse than potentially killing yourself.

I also feel like a lot of drug users probably don't want to get help because they're worried there will be legal consequences of revealing themselves, which just makes their addictions worse. It's the same with drug dealing - some people want to get out of that business but that can have very dangerous consequences. It can be like getting out of a gang.

I suppose my weakest point is just a principle one. I really don't think it's worth all of these negative consequences of drug control just to stop people from harming themselves. Absolutely people who are having drug issues should get help and be encouraged to stay healthy, but if people really want to have fun and perhaps slowly kill themselves, is it really worth stopping them?

I understand this is an idea that just doesn't sit well with a lot of people. Some people just morally can't allow themselves to subscribe to an idea that would allow people to kill themselves. That's fine, I know I probably won't convince any of those people. Hopefully I can at least make some people think about it who maybe wouldn't otherwise, and maybe start a good discussion. Debates welcome, play nice as always.

Desert Stream~ · Oct 17, 2016

Honestly, couldn't care less. It won't affect me, as I don't do drugs and I'm not planning on it.
If it's legalized, great, government tax money.
If it's not, great, less deaths.

Although if I had to vote, I wouldn't legalize it.

Mr. Meme · Oct 17, 2016

Personally, I think the legal troubles with drugs should only start if you try viciously pressuring/forcing someone else to doesn't wanna do drugs to try them out.

Somewhere_ · Oct 17, 2016

Drugs aren't really something you want in society, but at the same time the war on drugs has been ineffective and extremely costly at best.

With legalized drugs, at the very least they could be safer because people wouldnt have to rely so much on drug cartels.

I dont believe I have a right to tell someone else what they can and cannot do as long as they aren't hurting others, so I am for legalization. But abstinence should be culturally and socially enforced (for medium and hard drugs- marijuana has benefits and is fine as far as I know). Its kinda already economically enforced because its expensive and can cause job loss.

Kanzler · Oct 17, 2016

BadSheep said:
Drugs aren't really something you want in society, but at the same time the war on drugs has been ineffective and extremely costly at best.

With legalized drugs, at the very least they could be safer because people wouldnt have to rely so much on drug cartels.

I dont believe I have a right to tell someone else what they can and cannot do as long as they aren't hurting others, so I am for legalization. But abstinence should be culturally and socially enforced (for medium and hard drugs- marijuana has benefits and is fine as far as I know). Its kinda already economically enforced because its expensive and can cause job loss.

I'd argue that it's not in a meaningful way. Addictive drugs cause, well, addiction, which involve the user seeking out the drug and using it in spite of even knowing that it is affecting their life negatively. On an individual level, addiction causes a person to no longer be economically rational.

Somewhere_ · Oct 17, 2016

Kanzler said:
I'd argue that it's not in a meaningful way. Addictive drugs cause, well, addiction, which involve the user seeking out the drug and using it in spite of even knowing that it is affecting their life negatively. On an individual level, addiction causes a person to no longer be economically rational.

You are right. It just causes people to blow all their money.

Would argue they become a burden on society when broke? That is, that they free ride off other's non-addiction or otherwise? Or by committing crime? (not the crime of distribution or ownership of illegal drugs, but violent crime)

Kanzler · Oct 17, 2016

BadSheep said:
You are right. It just causes people to blow all their money.

Would argue they become a burden on society when broke? That is, that they free ride off other's non-addiction or otherwise? Or by committing crime? (not the crime of distribution or ownership of illegal drugs, but violent crime)

In general, yeah. They might resort to theft, they might get involved with the healthcare system, they might get involved with crime or violence.

Florges · Oct 17, 2016

Personally, I really want to see Indiana legalize marijuana use for the general public so we can have excessive taxes on it and be like Colorado. Unfortunately, I live in a Red state, so the possibility of that ever happening is nonexistent.

I do support legalizing marijuana at least, but not much else. Colorado has proved that taxing it works well with building the economy. Every other state should follow suit.

gimmepie · Oct 18, 2016

My thoughts on drugs? Well I'll start by saying I myself am 100% sober. I rarely drink and never in excess and have never touched marijuana or anything harder. I've seen people get addicted, I know the effects that drugs have on the body and the mind and I'm just not going there.

That being said, I don't like current drug policies. I think first and foremost marijuana production/consumption/possession/sale should be fully legalised and put under the same or similar taxation and laws as alcohol and tobacco. It's less harmful that either and even carries potential health benefits. It's stupid to have it criminalised.

When it comes to harder drugs I think we need to help addicts not throw them in prison. They have a serious problem and should be pitied not persecuted. Fund government programs to help addicts get off the shit with the money you'll save by not locking them up. The dealers though, they should be in prison. They cause too many problems and too much harm.

Esper · Oct 18, 2016

I was going to start a thread about this after hearing some talk on the radio about the marijuana legalization being on the ballot this year in my state.

I'm definitely in the camp for decriminalizing most drugs, but I have reservations about fully legalizing drugs.

Legalization MUST come with increased education about and treatment for drug use. Any plan without this is a non starter for me. Funds for such plans should primarily come from sales tax on legalized drugs, but however it gets funded is okay by me.
It should also come with reduced sentences and/or overturned sentences for people in jail for minor non-violent drug offenses.
Some drugs (primarily marijuana) require cultivation, which means resources such as land and water. With a drought in my own state I would be concerned about the environmental impact, particularly in regards to my next concern.
Big business. I would not want to see large corporation, similar to tobacco companies, swoop in and take over production of drugs by pushing out agriculture or other businesses. (I'm mostly thinking of marijuana here since it's considered the "safest" drug that is currently illegal.) I also think there are lots of reasonable concerns regarding drugs being marketed to or otherwise available to children since a large corporation would be interested primarily in profits. I would also worry about corporation inflating prices and creating monopolies or unsafe black markets (the second issue being one of the primary reasons to legalize in the first place).

I'd also want to see reasonable restrictions on how/where drug use can occur. I wouldn't want to see people smoking marijuana wherever people smoke tobacco now.

Sektor · Oct 20, 2016

It's one of those things that I wonder about often. Drugs and illicit narcotics are a heavy handed debate where there are no right or wrong answers. The drug war? Yes, that was a mistake that was borne from shady back deals during the 80s between the CIA and certain Cartels/Contras. The problem is that the US uses more drugs than anyone else in the world, so it's going to be hard to make a graph of how the global market would react if the doors were open to the trade. There may be an opportunity to place it under governmental control, but that would cause more problems with how the rest of the US system works. There would be a need for new laws. How old? Who gets them? Is there a card? Is there areas to do it?

Drugs are by far a worse problem than guns. Teens steal drugs from the medicine cabinet and it might not be so different if cocaine or dope becomes legal. Further more, there are so many varieties of these drugs that there isn't a set bar for them. Cocaine isn't just cocaine and Heroin isn't just Heroin. Some of it is cut with fillers or other additives. Then we get into the other chemical compounds. Crack Cocaine? Methamphetamines? Krokodil?

Where would the line be drawn and where would it be crossed? Even if they said tomorrow that drugs will be legal, it'd take decades to finalize the plans. People would stall, people would fight it, people would push it and hide it under the rug. Then there are always the newer chemical compounds that are generated from the trade as well. It's a mess, I know that much.

Hands · Oct 20, 2016

Esper said:
I was going to start a thread about this after hearing some talk on the radio about the marijuana legalization being on the ballot this year in my state.

I'm definitely in the camp for decriminalizing most drugs, but I have reservations about fully legalizing drugs.

Legalization MUST come with increased education about and treatment for drug use. Any plan without this is a non starter for me. Funds for such plans should primarily come from sales tax on legalized drugs, but however it gets funded is okay by me.

It should also come with reduced sentences and/or overturned sentences for people in jail for minor non-violent drug offenses.

Some drugs (primarily marijuana) require cultivation, which means resources such as land and water. With a drought in my own state I would be concerned about the environmental impact, particularly in regards to my next concern.

Big business. I would not want to see large corporation, similar to tobacco companies, swoop in and take over production of drugs by pushing out agriculture or other businesses. (I'm mostly thinking of marijuana here since it's considered the "safest" drug that is currently illegal.) I also think there are lots of reasonable concerns regarding drugs being marketed to or otherwise available to children since a large corporation would be interested primarily in profits. I would also worry about corporation inflating prices and creating monopolies or unsafe black markets (the second issue being one of the primary reasons to legalize in the first place).

I'd also want to see reasonable restrictions on how/where drug use can occur. I wouldn't want to see people smoking marijuana wherever people smoke tobacco now.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head.

I'm fully for decriminalisation of drug use, however we have to be careful how and why we do such things. Portugal has handled it pretty well.

Esper · Oct 20, 2016

JDJacket said:
Drugs are by far a worse problem than guns. Teens steal drugs from the medicine cabinet and it might not be so different if cocaine or dope becomes legal. Further more, there are so many varieties of these drugs that there isn't a set bar for them. Cocaine isn't just cocaine and Heroin isn't just Heroin. Some of it is cut with fillers or other additives. Then we get into the other chemical compounds. Crack Cocaine? Methamphetamines? Krokodil?

Bolded the part there that I think warrants some comment. If there is anyone advocating for legalizing cocaine they are being very quiet about it. That's because there's a difference between legalization and decriminalization.

Legalization means that you take away all criminal penalties and you create a legal framework for how a substance can be bought, sold, grown/made, transported, taxed, and so on. Decriminalization only takes away the legal penalties. The difference is important. We're talking about whether we would have government regulation or not, and also whether large scale production would be possible. If we decriminalize only then things would probably stay small scale. If we legalize then that's where people could potentially (depending on what guidelines are enacted) mass produce like you see for legal pharmaceuticals and other stuff like produce or car parts. Legalization might make production or use of cocaine legal, but I imagine it would be under the strictest of guidelines if it came to that.

Sektor · Oct 20, 2016

Esper said:
Bolded the part there that I think warrants some comment. If there is anyone advocating for legalizing cocaine they are being very quiet about it. That's because there's a difference between legalization and decriminalization.

Even if there is a small difference between decriminalization and legalization places both on the same table. While the penalties may or may not be removed, it would still generate some form of demand from the black market and create a whole spool of badness that we're discussing is the real issue (cartels and what not). If it's governmental, then there are ways to capitalize on it despite the potential repercussions down the line (wrongful death, no card possession). So fining people instead of locking them up may be a good outsource.

I would still argue that even if everything was legalized except for a select few items (Let's say heroin and cocaine) that there would still be a demand for these items. So, if there is no penalty (small fine is good) that's a smart things to do, but it would still generate a pseudo black market for people to acquire said drugs. There are so many illicit substances that any one person probably couldn't name them all off the top of their head. I was going in under the assumption it was an 'all in or fold' game. If there is even a small amount of criminality generated... I don't know. It's still one of those mystery questions and I don't think it'll be answered as long as I'm around. What works for one country will not work for the other. I know that much.

Talon · Nov 18, 2016

JDJacket said:
Even if there is a small difference between decriminalization and legalization places both on the same table. While the penalties may or may not be removed, it would still generate some form of demand from the black market and create a whole spool of badness that we're discussing is the real issue (cartels and what not). If it's governmental, then there are ways to capitalize on it despite the potential repercussions down the line (wrongful death, no card possession). So fining people instead of locking them up may be a good outsource.

I would still argue that even if everything was legalized except for a select few items (Let's say heroin and cocaine) that there would still be a demand for these items. So, if there is no penalty (small fine is good) that's a smart things to do, but it would still generate a pseudo black market for people to acquire said drugs. There are so many illicit substances that any one person probably couldn't name them all off the top of their head. I was going in under the assumption it was an 'all in or fold' game. If there is even a small amount of criminality generated... I don't know. It's still one of those mystery questions and I don't think it'll be answered as long as I'm around. What works for one country will not work for the other. I know that much.

You are ALMOST perfectly correctly. The only thing is that what works for one country MAY not work for the other, not that it will not. Portugal seems to fair just fine, and there is little evidence that supports will do otherwise.

I am fully for the decriminalization on certain drugs. There must be harsh guidelines for some, and some should just stay plain illegal.

Here is my view on it (It's quite long so I put it in a spoiler)

Spoiler:

I think, though, that before we do anything with decriminalization, we must first work on education. We must educate before we allow.

Sektor · Nov 19, 2016

Talon said:
The only thing is that what works for one country MAY not work for the other, not that it will not. Portugal seems to fair just fine, and there is little evidence that supports will do otherwise.

In my experience, it rings true. Each section of government is different, and inherently each country. Each sovereign state represents its own ideals and values and introducing laws crafted in say, Sweden, will not adapt well to the United States.

Middle Eastern laws and policies will not adapt well in the West. African laws and apartheid will not adapt to most cultures. Even Canada's laws and the laws of the United States differ wildly. It is safe to assume that even if laws are viewed as a benefit, that these new laws are drafted in a way that removes the original law's rules, does that make sense? It's foolish to assume that Europe's gun laws will apply to the US or Canada. Gun laws will never be as effective as you'd like to believe (circa 80's and cocaine).

Once a law is thought to be a benefit, it is then adapted, not brought into play fully, right? Of course, laws against stealing and murder are always the bread and butter of a civilized government, and much can be said of other criminals such as rapists and child murderers, but this is another beast altogether. I just know that for whatever reason, the drug trade is high up there with the illegal armament business. Contrary to popular belief, entertainment is not the highest grossing industry of all time, it's war. Drugs and guns is big money, and lots of unsavory people like their money and are willing to keep things the way they are.

It also doesn't help when several governments bump heads and refuse to assist either side . . .

Opinions on Drug Legislation

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Caaethil

#1 Greninja Fan

Desert Stream~

Holy Kipper!

Mr. Meme

Me? Acting serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Somewhere_

i don't know where

Kanzler

Somewhere_

i don't know where

Kanzler

Florges

The Garden Pokémon

gimmepie

Esper

Sektor

Hands

I was saying Boo-urns

Esper

Sektor

Talon

[font=Cambria]Hidden From Mind[/font]

Sektor