6th Gen Type Matchup Roundup!

With the dawn of Pokemon X and Y and the Fairy type, the type match-up chart has been altered (check out the handy Generation 6 variant on the official English website (PDF format)), and other types have been modified slightly by receiving new benefits or hindrances. The changes include:

Offense:
Super-effective against: Dragon-type, Fighting-type, and Dark-type Pokémon.
Not very effective against: Fire-type, Poison-type, and Steel-type Pokémon.

Defense:
Susceptible/weak to: Poison-type and Steel-type moves.
Resistant to: Fighting-type, Bug-type, and Dark-type moves.
Immune to: Dragon-type moves.

Additionally, pertinent information for other types:
Steel-type Pokémon lose their resistances to Dark-type and Ghost-type moves.

Grass-type Pokémon are now immune to powder and spore moves* (which I'm guessing includes: Cotton Spore, PoisonPowder, Spore, Stun Spore, Rage Powder, Sleep Powder, and maybe Powder Snow. Not sure if Toxic counts, but I doubt it.). They retain their immunity to the move Leech Seed.
*NOTE: The official English site just says "Grass-type Pokémon are immune to Leech Seed and powder and spore moves." as of now, so take that as you will for whether Powder Snow and 'moves described as powdery' (like Silver Wind) count.

Ghost-type Pokémon are now immune to moves with effects that prevent fleeing (which, from my experience, includes):
Primary-effect Moves: Block, Mean Look, Spider Web
Secondary-effect Moves: Bind, Clamp, Fire Spin, Magma Storm, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Wrap
Abilities*: Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, Shadow Tag
*NOTE: Ghost-type Pokémon being immune to Trapping Abilities is currently unconfirmed; the official English website only mentions the immunity applying to "moves that prevent Pokémon from fleeing from battle". I'll leave them listed for reference, though.

Electric-type Pokémon are now immune to the Paralysis status ailment.

Sources:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_%28type%29
http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/October_'13_CoroCoro_unveils_new_'XY'_information
http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/English_names_of_October_2013_CoroCoro_Pokémon_revealed

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So, what are your opinions on the new changes to the type match-up chart and the new advantages/disadvantages that certain Pokémon types receive?

The Fairy-type matchups are interesting IMO, although I don't think Fairy moves have to trump Fighting-type Pokémon, with a lot of them already being frail and having a tough type against Flying-type and Psychic-type moves (the latter which seems to be more common). I'm glad that Fire and Poison receive another resistance, though (the former which seems kind of shaky defensively, and the latter being unloved a bit).

It's great that Steel-type Pokémon can hit Fairy-type Pokémon with super-effective damage (which actually make sense considering fairy folklore), although I'm really lamenting how Steel lost its Dark and Ghost resistances (Metagross and Jirachi come to mind, as their Steel/Psychic combination makes them now doubly susceptible to Dark and Ghost, as if they didn't have a hard enough time fending off fiery and earthy foes already). I'm guessing the loss in resistances was to help in balancing, since Steel trumps Fairy in terms of offense and defense now... And it's still weird how Electric-type moves still weren't revised to be super-effective against Steel! I would've preferred it if EITHER (not BOTH) Dark or Ghost were changed to be neutral against Steel offensively, with Steel acquiring its current matchups with Fairy and an added weakness to Electric-type Pokémon.

As for the Grass type, it seems the more notable benefits are the wondrous immunities to the seemingly widely-loved Spore and Sleep Powder. Trainers (out-of-game) seem to resort to using Toxic/secondary-effect-Poison-inducing moves and Thunder Wave/secondary-effect-Paralysis-inducing moves if they want to inflict Poison and/or Paralysis status ailments, respectively; Stun Spore and PoisonPowder hardly seem to see use due to their own inaccuracy and the existence of their more-accurate brethren.
The only person I see regularly (ab)using Cotton Spore is Elite Four Sidney... I don't think I've ever even heard of Rage Powder until I searched for it today (I think I've barely come across the term once or twice before as a brief mention somewhere). Powder Snow (not sure if it counts due to its name, which is identical in English and Japanese) seems relegated to Castform and some Ice-types early on, and I guess 'competitive' Trainers would opt for more reliable Ice-type moves like Blizzard and Ice Beam.

The Ghost-type perk makes a lot of sense, since Ghost-type Pokémon seem to just phase (move through solids/walls, etc.) in and out of places at will, just doing their own thing (the Pokémon anime showcases this nicely, even if 'games don't equal anime'). I imagine that the free reign of 'switching despite trapping effects' will work greatly against pesky foes like Wobbuffet and Chandelure (both of who utilize Shadow Tag). Dugtrio's coveted Arena Trap becomes slightly less useful now... Magnet Pull isn't really applicable in this scenario as it only affects Pokémon with the Steel/Ghost type combination, although the awesome Honedge says hi! Must be nice to live during a metagame where Magnet Pull is but a mere spectacle to laugh at... :3

The Electric type's newfound immunity to Paralysis makes some sense; the pre-Generation 6 implementation bugged me for a while... I mean, Fire-type, Poison-type, and Ice-type Pokémon are all immune to their correlating status ailments (burn, poisoning, and freezing), so why shouldn't Electric Pokémon receive the same treatment in regards to electricity-based paralysis? However, there is paralysis that isn't associated with electricity (i.e., if an opposing Pokémon "breaks your own Pokémon's back" with Body Slam), mostly exhibited through moves like Body Slam, Stun Spore (wow, this move is gonna suck even more now that Grass- and Electric-type Pokémon are outright immune to it), and DragonBreath (Normal-type, Grass-type, and Dragon-type moves, respectively)... And then, in real life, there's paralysis that can be induced from the poison of certain aquatic creatures (which is why I'm still hoping for a Poison-type move that can cause paralysis). I would've liked it very much if Electric-type Pokémon have paralytic immnunity when the onset of paralysis is due to an Electric-type move's primary or secondary effect (like Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave); they should still be able to succumb to non-electrically-induced Paralysis like all the other paralyzable Pokémon, though.

Alright; I think I'm done for now, unless I think of any other opinions... XD

They wouldn't be immune to an Ice attack. Its just the status Powder attacks so Powder Snow will still do damage to them. But the seeding/Spore/Powder attacks like Sleep Powder, Spore, Stun Spore, and Poison Powder are ineffective to them.

It also says that Ghosts are immune to moves like Mean Look. Doesn't say anything about the abilities yet. The Abilities may not be effected by the change and only the moves that prevent them from running away may be effected.

I love the changes. I always thought it was odd how Electric pokémon could be affected by paralysis. Also it's great to see grass types be resistant to the greatly used sleep powder. Perhaps that'll increase their use :3

I agree with fenyx4 about non-electrically-induced paralysis, it doesn't exactly make sense for Electric Pokémon to be immune to them, unless you think about how nerves work, but even then it doesn't justify all of the moves... like powder-induced paralysis, it sorta makes sense, because it might imply that electric Pokémon's nerves can transfer more intensive electrical impulses to power through the paralysis (in the case of powder-induced paralysis I imagine it as muscles becoming stiff, rather than something happening to the nerves) , but in case of Body Slam... isn't being paralyzed by that move actually implies the Pokémon's spine is severed? In that case, supercharged nerves or not, it should be paralyzed. But oh well, maybe I'm overthinking things...

I'm happy about grass-types not being affected by powder-based moves, I don't use them often, so it might finally give me incentive to give them a chance :) . And about Ghost Pokémon being able to flee freely despite moves that should forbid it, good. I hate those moves.

The Steel type nerf, to be honest, I didn't think the resistances they removed made sense to begin with. And besides, I barely use Steel types myself (and always have a Fire or Ground type Pokémon on me when I'm fighting against Steel types) , so I don't really care about them being removed.

The Fairy type, I have no comments. It's a new type, I'll just wait and see how well it is integrated into the overall mechanics, and then form an actual opinion.

XanderO said:

They wouldn't be immune to an Ice attack. Its just the status Powder attacks so Powder Snow will still do damage to them. But the seeding/Spore/Powder attacks like Sleep Powder, Spore, Stun Spore, and Poison Powder are ineffective to them.

It also says that Ghosts are immune to moves like Mean Look. Doesn't say anything about the abilities yet. The Abilities may not be effected by the change and only the moves that prevent them from running away may be effected.

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Thanks for the Leech Seed mention; I did not see that listed on Bulbanews... :<

The official English site just says "Grass-type Pokémon are immune to Leech Seed and powder and spore moves," (mentioning nothing about solely status powder moves; I guess I missed the mention of Leech Seed, to my chagrin) which IMO is a bit ambiguous. I'm guessing most players think of "PoisonPowder, Sleep Powder, and Stun Spore ("Numbing Powder" in Japanese; nifty that the phrase "powder and spore moves" covers this move twofold)" whenever the term 'powder moves' is mentioned, but that can (and IMO should) apply to moves whose names begin with the term 'powder' (like Powder Snow), and arguably moves that are described as 'powdery' (like Silver Wind, which debuted in Ruby/Sapphire with the English move description "a powdery attack that may raise abilities" ...The Japanese description may or may not omit the term 'powder', though). I'm going as far as mentioning move descriptions because SoundProof (which "blocks sound-based moves") is rather ambiguous as well, as out of all the moves that it covers, only 1 move so far (Metal Sound) actually contains the word "Sound", so for the rest of the 'sound'-moves, you have to go by the 'meaning' of the move name and/or move description (or basically whatever Game Freak considers to be 'sound' moves).
It's not inconceivable that Grass-type Pokemon could be coded as being immune to Powder Snow and Silver Wind (due to their 'powdery' affiliations, moreso Powder Snow). Admittedly, that would be a bit weird since both are (normally) super-effective against Grass types anyway, but they still have connections with powder, and thus should be classified as 'powder moves' as well. But I guess we'll need to wait for more clarification on whether Powder Snow counts (sigh...it would be much easier if the writers just bothered to list the moves that apply; don't just say "powder moves" when non-primarily-status-inducing 'powder' moves exist).

I concede to your point about the Ghost-type Pokemon being only immune to trapping moves and not Abilities (at the moment, anyway), as the official site manages to specify the 'moves' part... Thanks for the clarification; I'll change the original post about that, and hopefully we get more clarification on that in time.

*Although, IMO, if Ghost types will be immune to trapping moves, Game Freak might as well make them immune to trapping Abilities as well...I mean, Flying-type Pokemon are already immune to Arena Trap, so it's not unheard of seeing another type get an immunity to Arena Trap or similar trapping Abilities...there's only 3 of them that exist right now, 1 of which only applies to Steel-type Pokemon, and the other 2 don't even have that much distribution.... I mean, Mean Look essentially does the exact same thing as Shadow Tag, except the latter just 'takes less time' to do it in, technically. Sheesh... -_-

Magmaruby and Aquasapphire said:

I love the changes. I always thought it was odd how Electric pokémon could be affected by paralysis. Also it's great to see grass types be resistant to the greatly used sleep powder. Perhaps that'll increase their use :3

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I don't really see why paralysis is associated with Electric types. Sure, a lot of Electric moves cause it, but there are moves like Body Slam and Glare that are Normal typed but can cause it as well. I could see making Electric types immune to paralysis through Thunder Wave, but it doesn't make much sense to make them incapable of being paralyzed through Body Slam, etc.

As of now I'm quite indifferent about these changes. I don't think Fairy will really drastically change the use of Dragon types.

SaniOKh said:

I agree with fenyx4 about non-electrically-induced paralysis, it doesn't exactly make sense for Electric Pokémon to be immune to them, unless you think about how nerves work, but even then it doesn't justify all of the moves... like powder-induced paralysis, it sorta makes sense, because it might imply that electric Pokémon's nerves can transfer more intensive electrical impulses to power through the paralysis (in the case of powder-induced paralysis I imagine it as muscles becoming stiff, rather than something happening to the nerves) , but in case of Body Slam... isn't being paralyzed by that move actually implies the Pokémon's spine is severed? In that case, supercharged nerves or not, it should be paralyzed. But oh well, maybe I'm overthinking things...

I'm happy about grass-types not being affected by powder-based moves, I don't use them often, so it might finally give me incentive to give them a chance :) . And about Ghost Pokémon being able to flee freely despite moves that should forbid it, good. I hate those moves.

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I was thinking about the "nerves" thing (which utilize electrical impulses) as well with a potential rationale to 'powder-induced paralysis immunity', along with a "severed spine" derived from Body Slam's 'paralysis', but I thought I was overthinking things as well. XD

jellicentfan1 said:

I don't really see why paralysis is associated with Electric types. Sure, a lot of Electric moves cause it, but there are moves like Body Slam and Glare that are Normal typed but can cause it as well. I could see making Electric types immune to paralysis through Thunder Wave, but it doesn't make much sense to make them incapable of being paralyzed through Body Slam, etc.

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The "paralysis = electricity" thing seems to be quite common in videogame media (as seen on this page), usually for paralysis/electricity to act in parallel with the freeze status (for ice users) and the burn status (for fiery users), because electricity has to do something. It's weird...I don't think I've ever seen a real-life case of paralysis stem from an electrical cause (i.e., a lightning strike); it's usually due to trauma to the spine or something similar caused by an object of some sort. And all electricity seems to do is either burn/injure someone or cause an individual's unfortunate death.
I guess you could say something similar about burns (as things other than exclusively fire/heat can cause burns, like electricity and friction between 2 objects...although doesn't friction technically generate heat? AAGH I'm probably overthinking this), but as all the burning moves in Pokemon seem to be either heat- or fire-related, I don't really have an issue at present with the Fire type's burn immunity.

Totally forgot about Glare... It always seemed to me like the afflicted Pokemon was "scared stiff" (I thought that the flinching volatile status would convey that implication better) rather than actually paralyzed. I guess being scared technically involves nerves, but it seems more like a 'mental' issue to me than a 'electrical nervous conductivity' issue. But yeah, more reason why the Electric type's paralytic immunity should only be restricted to Electric moves.

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As for the Fairy vs. Dragon matchup, I'm waiting to see if any unrevealed Fairy-type Pokemon's stats back up their Fairy typing (I doubt the stat-poor Wigglytuff (if that follows the pattern of Jigglypuff) or Azumarill will benefit excessively from their Fairy re-typings...Gardevoir's survivability will probably increase somewhat)... Dragon-type Pokemon will still be able to make mincemeat out of Fairy-type Pokemon if Fairy types can't survive a Dragon-type Pokemon's (especially Dragonite and its 'brethren') non-STAB attacks. It will take me some major getting-used-to regarding Fairy types being immune to Dragon-type moves (I mean, I would've settled for Dragon-type moves being 'not very effective' against Fairy types, but not outright ineffective)... I mean, mighty dragons like Dialga, Megidramon, and Red Eyes Black Dragon could easily claw at or take a bite out of things like Tinker Bell and the Fairly Odd Parents fairies, no?
On one hand, I'm kind of glad that Draco Meteor/Outrage (moreso the latter, as it locks the user in and potentially allows the foe a free turn to switch Pokemon) can be survived a bit more now (to be honest, I haven't played Generation 5 at all, but I wasn't really looking forward to facing opposing Outraging Salamence and Haxorus at all. T_T), but attacking a highly defensive Fairy-type Pokemon using a Dragon-type Pokemon will probably be a pain. >.< I'd probably just resort to using Fire or Ground (out of the esteemed Dragon/Fire/Ground-type move combination) to fend off fairies; aside from Dialga, Steel-type moves (namely Iron Tail and Steel Wing) don't seem reliable enough in the hands of Dragon types... :<

The info on grass pokemon said they were immune to powder moves such as Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and Poison Powder. It names three of the status inducing attacks. They never officially said Spore as far as I've seen but Spore is Sleep Powder just better.

XanderO said:

They never officially said Spore as far as I've seen but Spore is Sleep Powder just better.

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If so then catching Grass-type pokemon is about to get worse. :/

As for the changes, I think they are quite a nice surprise. I'm very happy that this generation is not stagnating like gen 5.

XanderO said:

The info on grass pokemon said they were immune to powder moves such as Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, and Poison Powder. It names three of the status inducing attacks. They never officially said Spore as far as I've seen but Spore is Sleep Powder just better.

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Actually they did say something about spore on the official site's type chart. "Grass types are immune to leech seed, and Powder and spore moves."

Ghost type change doesn't seem too important competitively but if there is a Ghost-Type roaming legend this gen and we don't have access to a pokemon with Shadow Tag, catching it will be hell without a Master Ball.

It is interesting how a type with so many weaknesses now resists many status conditions. Coincidentally, they have protection from the status attacks OTHER grass types would be using. Now, any grass type can counter Breloom's SubPunch.

Steel is a necessary change, however the newcomer Honedge gets shafted.

Electric Type's defining quality is speed. Paralysis shuts them down. It makes sense (game theory) to give them immunity. Imagin if burn cut your attack power by 7/8, it wouldn't be fair to Machoke.

The Ghost thing is cool, but how any child know this? Where in game would the explain?

jellicentfan1 said:

I don't really see why paralysis is associated with Electric types. Sure, a lot of Electric moves cause it, but there are moves like Body Slam and Glare that are Normal typed but can cause it as well. I could see making Electric types immune to paralysis through Thunder Wave, but it doesn't make much sense to make them incapable of being paralyzed through Body Slam, etc.

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Maybe it's because paralysis deals with the lack of electric stimulation in the muscles, and since electric types have alot of electricity, they have no reason to be unable to use it as a reserve source of movement.

SnowpointQuincy said:

It is interesting how a type with so many weaknesses now resists many status conditions. Coincidentally, they have protection from the status attacks OTHER grass types would be using. Now, any grass type can counter Breloom's SubPunch.

Steel is a necessary change, however the newcomer Honedge gets shafted.

Electric Type's defining quality is speed. Paralysis shuts them down. It makes sense (game theory) to give them immunity. Imagin if burn cut your attack power by 7/8, it wouldn't be fair to Machoke.

The Ghost thing is cool, but how any child know this? Where in game would the explain?

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I agree about the Grass type's nice buffs, although I'm hoping Toxic is included in its immunities since it's basically a more potent "PoisonPowder", and toxins *can* be secreted/extracted from plants (which I think would count for most non-synthetic poisons...? ~_~).

The point of status ailments is to 'shut your foe down' (and the point of the Rawst and Lum Berries is in case you don't want that to happen to one of your Pokemon :P); Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp have even higher power than Machoke, and burns still afflict those Pokemon (not to mention that it's possible to obtain Machoke that lack the Guts Ability). And a good number of Fighting-type Pokemon have high Attack like Machoke (I'd go as far to say that the Fighting-type's defining quality is usually high Attack), but they're still vulnerable to burns (which effectively cripple their 'defining trait') just like all the other Pokemon types...

As for the Ghost type's immunity to trapping moves, if kids can't look at that Generation 6 PDF Type Chart on Pokemon's website(s) to discover it, then either:
-they'll find about it from a friend/relative/the grapevine (as many Pokemon "secrets" tend to do, evidenced by past occurrences)
-they'll find out during gameplay by experimenting/trial-and-error with the various types
-they *might* find out if the aforementioned change is included in the XY instruction manual and the kids actually read it (but from what I've experienced, most people don't bother to read that and think of it as a waste of paper, BAH XD)
-a random NPC will hint at this immunity to them (which many NPCs do regarding the vast array of Pokemon "secrets"), or
-it'll simply be something that will go (largely) unexplained but will be a nice edge/quirk? for those who know about it (similar to the mechanic from Generations 1-3 in which if the faster Pokemon faints (in a single battle, at least) before the slower Pokemon manages to act, then the slower Pokemon loses its turn/chance to act for that round).

Also, some wonderful FridgeBrilliance regarding the Steel type's nerf from TVTropes (although I personally think the one regarding the Steel+Ghost interaction makes more sense):

Steel no longer resists Ghost and Dark. Ghosts have the ability to phase through all materials, which includes Steel. Dark types on the other hand have become smarter in their dirty tactics, striking at the chinks in a Steel type's armor.

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It's kinda surprising these type-specific changes were implemented, but that means it'll now be slightly trickier to inflict status on a Grass-type, and the Electric-type's immunity to paralysis is sorta something explainable since the paralysis was like, static electricity?

BeefTaco said:

Ghost type change doesn't seem too important competitively but if there is a Ghost-Type roaming legend this gen and we don't have access to a pokemon with Shadow Tag, catching it will be hell without a Master Ball.

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I do agree with you, I might have to bring a Wobbuffet with me if we get such a Pokemon and I have no Master Ball on me. Maybe they might have to make a way to get Master Balls easier?

But still, this new type chart really balances everything out, even the one defensive powerhouse that is Steel. But at least Fairy-type presence means Steel and Poison might have even better use offensively.

I halve halve like the changes. while I love what they did with the fairy type(now my adorable syvleon can make all them outraging garchomps PAY) i am friggin peed off what they did with steel. shouldve just left them alone.

i like all the changes especially poison gaining another resistance and strength.
i am a little disappointed steel isn't weak against electric, but i never understood why it was weak to ground or fighting, but whatever. atleast my electric pokemon cant get paralyzed anymore :)

once again ice type is neglected. sad, especially if fairy overtake its role as the dragon killer.

With this type roundup it may seem like a fairer competition, but Bug-type fans will not be happy with the change, since we discovered that Fairy-type Pokemon now resist Bug moves makes the bug-type worse than before.