The Moral Grounds and Acceptability of Secrets and Lies

Secrets.
Most of us have them. Some of us keep them. Unspoken, they burn inside you. But is it right to keep secrets? Generally it's the accepted opinion that we should keep secrets that were told to us in confidence. Is there a point that this rule ends? When they clash and conflict with our own individual ideals and morals, what do you personally do? What should anyone do?
Regardless, however, secrets breed lies. Which further entraps you in the web of deceit and dubious trustworthiness.

So, the question I pose to you; What is the ethical status of secrets and lies? Is it right to keep them? Is it right not to? How far will you go to guard a secret, or cover a lie? What lies would you never tell? What secrets would you never keep?

Obviously this is a grey area. By all means, debate... but please remain respectful of the opinions of others.


A more lighthearted thread on the same topic can be found here: Please Don't Tell Her...

Doesn't telling people a secret kind of dismiss it as being a secret and instead just makes it a piece of real or fake information?


If someone tells me something and then adds "Please don't tell anyone else about this" I don't think "ooh damn this is a top secret military secret that I need to take my grave" I either forget about it or just leave it stored in my head in the folder labeled "Possible topics of discussion with a certain person(s)".
If the secret is something major like "I'm going to stab my boyfriend in the neck because he abuses me" then of course I am going to either try and discuss the matter with the person or if that doesn't work I talk to the people closest to that person.


As for lying, it's human nature to lie and anyone who says otherwise are stupid. You lie to protect yourself, you lie to protect someone else, you lie to further yourself in life. Not all lying is acceptable e.g: Did you stab this man? No I didn't. but then again not all lying is bad e.g: Do I look fat in this dress? nope you sure don't.

i don't believe that lying is a part of 'human nature', as human nature is only a rationalisation put forth to absolve ourselves of moral guilt, plus the act of lying is something that is present across the animal kingdom as well
not in the same sentient terms as us, they're not consciously thinking 'this is a lie', but in various kinds of defense (or predator) mechanisms that serve the being's interest and continued survival
a general statement i hold is most of the time a lie is an act of self-preservation, even if it benefits other beings as well

back to humankind though, some lies are wrong and some are justified
but it all depends on what we deem as unjustifiable to lie about
since the actual concept of lying will be always be there for us, it comes down to us determining what makes a lie bad on a case by case basis

I don't have a moral code with regards to lying. Like Aphrodite says, I'd consider the morality of lying on a case to case basis. I mean, there are many degrees of untruths, spanning several dimensions such as: was it intentional? was it to obtain something at someone else's expense? did they mislead by exclusion? and so on. To be honest though, I've never been caught in a situation where I had to make a big lie. I'm the kind of person who leaves his laundry to hang in plain sight - nothing to apologize for and nothing to hide.

Aphrodite said:

i don't believe that lying is a part of 'human nature', as human nature is only a rationalisation put forth to absolve ourselves of moral guilt, plus the act of lying is something that is present across the animal kingdom as well

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I think only the first part of that sentence could be true, since I don't believe that human nature refer to things that only humans do, but things considered "hardwired" to the human psyche - whether they be shared by animals or not. For example, some people would consider crime impossible to eliminate because it's part of human nature to do whatever it takes to survive, which isn't to say that animals don't do whatever it takes to survive.

I think human nature is a legitimate concept that isn't only used to absolve moral guilt. It's useful to understand why we aren't all philosopher-kings and perfect rational people. It isn't wrong to be imperfect, is it, but you still want an explanation for that. Hence, human nature.

I too think that lying is a case that is based on if the thing that is being lied about causes the other person/party to actually be affected negatively. As Aphrodite said there are some that are wrong and others are justified. We do it because we think we can get out of the bad that comes from it, but in the end the person ends up fessing up most of the time.

And with secrets, for the ones that are deeply personal, those are kind of what we have our journals for, but if it's something that you would rather other people not spread I don't think it's something I would want to tell someone else, unless that something is a fact that the person being told it could actually do something with.

Aphrodite said:

i don't believe that lying is a part of 'human nature', as human nature is only a rationalisation put forth to absolve ourselves of moral guilt, plus the act of lying is something that is present across the animal kingdom as well
not in the same sentient terms as us, they're not consciously thinking 'this is a lie', but in various kinds of defense (or predator) mechanisms that serve the being's interest and continued survival
a general statement i hold is most of the time a lie is an act of self-preservation, even if it benefits other beings as well

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The problem that I have with this though is that "human nature" doesn't have to be solely restricted to humans. Many animals may be capable of holding guilt for their actions, specifically some of the most intelligent of species like Elephants, Ravens and Dolphins. In addition, evidence from the naturalist Bernd Heinrich suggests that lying can be intentional in other species, specifically his study of Ravens, intentionally "lying" about the locations of their cache when they notice onlooking ravens. I highly recommend Mind of the Raven for reading, you'll be surprised by how intelligent these creatures are.

"Human nature" is a set of characteristics that apply to humans, there's no need for them to be mutually exclusive to them.

Ultimately, I think lying is less of a part of "human nature" as opposed to self preservation. Lying can be a consequence of that action, since people tend to do whatever they can to preserve not only their physical self but their mental state of being as well. People have a very odd tendency to do whatever it takes to preserve their well being, including lying, but also many other mental self defense mechanisms in order to preserve themselves.

The final problem with that though is that it is very short sighted. In most cases regarding lying, the truth will eventually come out. In other cases, such as pinning the blame on others, one will continue to perform actions that effectively make their lives miserable until they finally accept that they made a mistake - which may be too late. Lying also goes hand and hand with this concept.

There are times where lying is good, and it more resembles the natural reaction of what you're talking about. Animals may "lie" instinctually to preserve their young or themselves; humans also do the same thing to protect their close ones. In many cases the cost of telling the truth far outweighs the consequences of lying and can help lead to the survival of the involved individuals.

In one of my communications classes in college, we discussed when and whether to share information.

If, for example, you knew that your friend was being bad-mouthed behind their back, should you tell them? The instructor's position was that you should consider the effect of sharing the information. If there's not much your friend could do about the slander, and their self-esteem would suffer by knowing about it, the best thing to do is not share the information - even though you might really want to get that weight off your shoulders.

Of course, that may cause you yourself some distress. So this approach is one of putting others before yourself, a behavior which is found in some animals, but which humans are (sometimes) really good at doing.

Tek said:

In one of my communications classes in college, we discussed when and whether to share information.

If, for example, you knew that your friend was being bad-mouthed behind their back, should you tell them? The instructor's position was that you should consider the effect of sharing the information. If there's not much your friend could do about the slander, and their self-esteem would suffer by knowing about it, the best thing to do is not share the information - even though you might really want to get that weight off your shoulders.

Of course, that may cause you yourself some distress. So this approach is one of putting others before yourself, a behavior which is found in some animals, but which humans are (sometimes) really good at doing.

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Wow, that's really something when you think about it. If my friend was being bad-mouthed, I think I would want to do something about it, at least if it was by someone I didn't like. Take it from me, someone who's had their feelings disrespected some too many times, but it'd probably need to take professional assistance to get them away. And while I do agree that humans are sometimes very good at caring more about others than themselves, it is important to consider what the other person might think if they find out that this is happening. But at the same time, you also don't want to keep hearing things that could be flat-out untrue.

Pendraflare said:

Wow, that's really something when you think about it. If my friend was being bad-mouthed, I think I would want to do something about it, at least if it was by someone I didn't like. Take it from me, someone who's had their feelings disrespected some too many times, but it'd probably need to take professional assistance to get them away. And while I do agree that humans are sometimes very good at caring more about others than themselves, it is important to consider what the other person might think if they find out that this is happening. But at the same time, you also don't want to keep hearing things that could be flat-out untrue.

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I feel you, but that's not the important part of my post. It was just an example I made up earlier. The point is that if sharing information is basically only going to harm someone, you shouldn't do it just so that you feel better.

Simply, I think if your intention is to do good, then it's all right to lie.

Instead of allowing some arbitrary set of rules to dictate what I do, I levy the weight of privileged information based on how privileged it is, who is telling me this, what context the information is, and the consequences of sharing that information, accidentally and intentionally and what have you. Apparently a lot of people let morals fill the void of effort towards situational analysis which leaves one's ideas about things broken from the start, I dunno about that. It seems like a lot of times (not all the time) morals are a load of shit.

If my conclusion comes to that I shall keep the information undisclosed, than I will do so with every effort possible, but if it's invaluable I'm not going to protect it (or push it outwards, either). Another problem I've seen in humans is their want to divulge privileged information out of some strange pleasure, as it seemingly gives them some thought of nobility in doing so. That's bad.

As far as what I weigh with the analysis of a piece of privileged information, my social relation and (if applicable) emotional connection to the person are taken into account, and I also think about the scope the information can take hold in both a best case and worst case scenario (the latter is weighed more heavily, though). We're it to be leaked, what would happen to things? What would happen to me? What would happen to others of importance? These questions are all vital in the considerations of informational disclosure.