Bard's Vanilla Mafia

[Wicked3DS]

My thoughts are if Zap is so sus all the time, why did we waste our time on him? Personally I think whoever started that mess should be lynched.

*checks*

Of course it was NK smh

 

[Superjolt]

My thoughts are if Zap is so sus all the time, why did we waste our time on him? Personally I think whoever started that mess should be lynched.

*checks*

Of course it was NK smh

There were legit reasons to find him scummy though

A few notes:
- 3 people that voted for Pecilia are still alive
- The only players Kiyo has given significant/clear stances on are dead, stance on MCD isn't really clear after D3 (it did seem like Kiyo thought he was scummy on D1 tho)
- Didn't really expect a vote change to Rainbow from MCD on D3, not entirely sure what to make of that

Don't like Kiyo's lack of content beyond D1, slightly surprised he hasn't posted anything so far this day phase (we're already approaching the 24 hour mark here). Still think he might be town, but not quite as sure anymore

 

[Superjolt]

Case for Mr Cat Dog scum:

It's D1, so no one knows anything (especially in a game like this), so let's try to get some reads on.

Pecilia's sorta-kinda jumping on Zap's admittedly silly post. is probably the most striking thing to me so far. Kiyo's post, while impressive in its detail, doesn't really tell us anything that we don't already know, especially given the lack of flavour (heh!) in these vanilla phase posts, so it could be a clever ploy to quickly establish himself as a fake townie; if the same level of analysis was applied at D3, I'd be much more likely to town-read him. Zap's post was a bit silly, but I don't know enough about his play-style to determine if it's scummy or just how he plays. And Wiicked seemed a bit agressive in response to Pecilia's post, but he often plays quite aggressively - especially as town - so I suppose there's nothing new there.

If I had to choose now, I'd vote Pecilia, but want to hear other people talk before making a final decision.

His first post in the game. All he says about Pecilia is that his post is "striking" (which doesn't explain much to begin with). But then he says he doesn't know enough about Zap's playstyle. How can you make a judgement on Pecilia at this point if you don't know enough about Zap's playstyle in order to make a fair judgement? Otherwise this post is pretty empty (and Kiyo pointed out something similar D1)

I guess I should also ask MCD - what is your read on Kiyo now?

To answer the part in bold, because I didn't feel that strongly, and wanted a chance for other people to talk and help improve my own reads before committing to a vote. I guess I also don't need others to agree with me, but I'm not great at being a pioneer in this sort of stuff, so other opinions and thoughts are a great help to me. Honestly, Wiicked seems to be playing defensive townie so far.

For the time being, I'll also put a [Lynch] Pecilia down. His claim is the one that a mafia would make, and out of everyone so far, he seems the most scummy to me. I'm not 100% confident by any means, but it's the best I've got to go on based on what I've read so far.

This is also my first every lynch vote against me, so I guess I'm moving up in the mafia suspicion world! Might frame it and everything! :D It's wrong of course, but it's still fun to be included!

I guess the first paragraph is fair, where was Wiicked being defensive though? He finds Pecilia the scummiest player at this point but still doesn't really explain why. Also, why would scum be more likely to claim VT (skittle)?

This makes a lot of sense.

And Pecilia's posts after my initial read also make a lot of sense, and track with his playstyle when he's been an inno cornered in situations like these in the past. I'm town-reading him now.

[Unvote] Pecilia
[Lynch] Salzorrah

Jumps off Pecilia wagon here for the last minute Gunner wagon. Does he see the GP wagon growing and think the Pecilia wagon might fall through? Or does he just think Gunner is an easier lynch? (noting also Gunner flipped inno)

I'm wondering what changed between the post where he votes Pecilia and the post where he votes Gunner. He had just said that Pecilia's claim is "one that a mafia would make" but suddenly town reads him? It's kind of weird because Pecilia's posts on Page 2 were townier than his posts on Page 3 imo. What was it about Pecilia's posts on the previous page that didn't "track with his playstyle"?

Honestly, I'm in a similar boat. I expect more out of me too! I'd like to say I'll start being more productive, but work is a bit busy at the moment so haven't had the chance to be as active as I'd like. Typing this at the moment in my phone between meetings.

At the very least, I'll [Unvote] Ullion.

I didn't like how he only popped in to question Nightkrow's results on D2, but he does say he was busy and at least admits he's not being as productive as he should be.

Also, even though he did get off the Pecilia wagon, he's one of the players that voted him and is still alive - out of the players that voted Pecilia, one flipped town, one flipped cult recruit, one is conftown (Anna), so if we want to think the wagon was scum driven, MCD fits here

[Lynch] Mr Cat Dog

This part mostly directed just at MCD:

Let's throw a vote to the [Lynch] Rainbow wagon, as they've been even more inactive than I have and there's Zap's 'claim' to deal with. Although it looks like RIP Zap, unless everyone's on at the same time as me.

I should be back to my active posting self for the next day phase; then I'll hopefully be able to get more caught up and engaged. I've missed this!

Did you see Rainbow as the next scummiest player or is the vote just for being inactive?

I'm voting you rn, but still want to hear from you though since you said you'll be active again and we are in LYLO after all

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

To be completely honest, I can't justify any of my inklings, so I have been avoiding putting them down. Wiicked is one in particular that has been reading less town to me, but since I don't have any backup to that notion, I don't want to risk another innocent getting lynched.

And also most of my time hasn't been involved with making stuff in the RP section.​

 

[Ullion]

lol ulli rely on me for reads all u like but im kinda dumb so yknow. maybe not.

I didn't mean to say your reads or right or that we should consider them as such - just that being the only confirmed innocent, your reads would be the most honest. Just so we know that any read you make, is one coming from a person we all know is innocent, and that we know you're not trying to manipulate any of us. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear earlier. x_x

and ulli was v calm about pointing out the misinterpretation of yesterdays roleblock. idk if hes normally more defensive or not? like the only reason i would be so calm in that situation is if i was the roleblocker and knew that i had done up NK. but thats me and im not good at mafia so!

I'll be honest, I was definitely not calm when I made my post explaining what I assumed had happened. It took me a good day or so to calm myself down before posting because I was so tilted by the fact that no one seemed to read Nightkrow's PM message clearly enough and a huge bandwagon almost got me unrightfully killed. >_< As for knowing it was due to a roleblock and nothing else... well, looking at the OP - how could it be anything else? It was the only thing that made sense to me, so I was super glad NK listened to me and at the very least got it cleared up with Bard. I woulda been a deadman otherwise. :/

Anna's input will be helpful but we shouldn't have to rely 100% on her, we should be coming up with our own thoughts too y'know? Any thoughts besides Rainbow?

I agree with your first part, but I already explained my thoughts on that matter at the start of this post.
Besides Rainbow? It's just hard for me to say, personally, because I've never played with MCD and I never know how to get a good read on Kiyo. Wicked is the one I'm most used to (aside from yourself, Superjolt)and I don't know if he's toned it down in my absence? He seems, overall, like his usual self though and I've been town reading him for the entire game. If I were to put a bet on another player other than Anna being a town - it would be Wicked over anyone else, followed probably by your SJ. If that's the case, then the last 3 people I feel the least confident in are Kiyo, MCD and Rainbow. But it's not like I even feel that confident and either you or Wicked could be pulling a fast one too. I'm super wary of you simply because I've never seen you as scum before. XD

 

[Wicked3DS]

There were legit reasons to find him scummy though

Yes, but we kind of already established that he came off scummy generally in games, so what made this any different?

To be completely honest, I can't justify any of my inklings, so I have been avoiding putting them down. Wiicked is one in particular that has been reading less town to me, but since I don't have any backup to that notion, I don't want to risk another innocent getting lynched.

And also most of my time hasn't been involved with making stuff in the RP section.​

If you're reading me less town because of my recent posts, then I'm sorry that you don't share my frustration with our outright terrible reads in this game.

 

[Superjolt]

To be completely honest, I can't justify any of my inklings, so I have been avoiding putting them down. Wiicked is one in particular that has been reading less town to me, but since I don't have any backup to that notion, I don't want to risk another innocent getting lynched.

And also most of my time hasn't been involved with making stuff in the RP section.​

Kiyo, it's LYLO, I think it's important to note anything you have right now. Even if you're lacking justification for your reads, at least give me something, just a towniest to scummiest reads list without reasons maybe?

Tell me what you think about my MCD case at least?

I agree with your first part, but I already explained my thoughts on that matter at the start of this post.
Besides Rainbow? It's just hard for me to say, personally, because I've never played with MCD and I never know how to get a good read on Kiyo. Wicked is the one I'm most used to (aside from yourself, Superjolt)and I don't know if he's toned it down in my absence? He seems, overall, like his usual self though and I've been town reading him for the entire game. If I were to put a bet on another player other than Anna being a town - it would be Wicked over anyone else, followed probably by your SJ. If that's the case, then the last 3 people I feel the least confident in are Kiyo, MCD and Rainbow. But it's not like I even feel that confident and either you or Wicked could be pulling a fast one too. I'm super wary of you simply because I've never seen you as scum before. XD

Getting reads on players you're less familiar with might be hard but doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Also after looking back at D1, I'm just really having a hard time seeing Kiyo as scum, so that kind of moves you into possible-scum territory for me. Who would you be willing to vote? Or are those 3 you listed the ones you would vote for today?

Also I had to go back and look at games I've been in with you, I guess it's true you've never seen me as scum xD I've pretty much always been town in those games, I was autocrat in BttB (but I played like I was town there anyway lol), even as far back as PCU I was town there too xD (I guess technically you sort of saw scum-me in OiaBM? I got maf-recruited halfway through that game :P )

Yes, but we kind of already established that he came off scummy generally in games, so what made this any different?

I know what you're saying, but it's like I said to Anna, "they're always sus/weird" shouldn't be an excuse to not look into someone (because how do you read them otherwise?) Can't remember if you were in tEMafia, but I was suspecting Melody in that game based on some obvious contradictions she was making and she basically tried to say "that doesn't apply to me, I always play weird like that" (obviously not word for word but I think it's similar to the situation here)

What do you think about my case on MCD? Who would you vote for today?

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

Might as well give it a shot, maybe putting my thoughts down will make me come to some kind of conclusion. So, we're assuming three mafia in a lylo, correct?

Rainbow -- To be reminiscent of Krow's words, fucking who? I know that it'd be a little hypocritical of me to call out inactivity, but this is ridiculous: they have only made 2 posts minus their sign-up, which were a vote on D1 for Zap (now revealed as Doc) and a D3 two-word post hopping on the Ulli train before we discovered Krow was roleblocked; which they were pinged about due to Ulli's post, and still did nothing. The only reason I'm not trigger-happy about advocating a lynch on Rainbow is because this tastes of true truancy and can apply to both a scum!Rainbow and an inno!Rainbow context. The posts are so insubstantial. I do have a lean towards the scum angle, though -- the D3 appearance seems like a quick vote to stay in the game and not let a mafia team down by having them lose one member; I feel I'd be more likely for a inno!Rainbow to just veg and die of inactivity.

Superjolt -- Nice, well-stated posts. Can't find a reason to scumread. Super's urgency to provoke reads out of people in this eleventh hour definitely rings inno, because I just don't see a scum!Super making this move; why would he care then? However, it could read like he's trying to lead a lynch on Cat Dog, but the tenacity reads town.

Mr Cat Dog -- Though I like Super's analysis, I'm still at kind of a loss with Cat Dog. Maybe it's just because he's kinda the same kind of inactive I am, but I definitely wouldn't knock the notion. Most of his responses are either confusing or hollow to me.

Ullion -- It's pretty funny to find out that besides the GM, Ulli has made the most posts in the game. I feel like I have not been taking notice of him much. But one particular feud rings out clear, which is made all the more interesting now knowing a confirmed context of inno!Zap and inno!Aqua:

Why? Because to my recollection, people were saying that's how he normally acts when he's town in past games. So you coming out and claiming that he was "suss as hell yesterday" seems backwards to me, and in my eyes paints you as more suspicious. Could he be just randomly voting you? Quite possibly. Could you be inno with him randomly voting you and you're defending yourself poorly? Possibly. But I feel like if you're inno, you wouldn't have mixed what you're saying this phase with what was commonly mentioned last phase.

I responded the way I did because you mentioned I had no literally no reason to follow him, not that he had no reason to vote for you.

And who said I wasn't considering other options? Because I voted early? That means virtually nothing. As proof by me still explaining my thoughts and posting in this thread (as opposed to lynch-and-run), I am considering other options, I'm giving you options to explain yourself in debate. Would you rather I not vote until last minute and not give you a chance to defend yourself? That would be suspicious, not giving other player's an opportunity to talk and debate and defend themselves. But if you consider that suss, I suppose I'll play more scummy in the future? I don't Anna, you're confusing me with that point - lol.

These seem incredibly antagonistic on Ulli's part for me. Now, I'm all about provoking people to get them to speak or really defend themselves (often grilling someone will lead to telling signs of their innocence in their defense) but this feels weird now knowing the context - Zap's haphazard suspicion lead to him voting an innocent, and when that innocent retaliated and there was the ever-so-slightly lowkey speculated implication that Zap was hinting he was actually cop, Ulli kind of ran with it and was the person to grill Aqua instead of Zap. This rings suss to me, since in a scum!Ulli context, this could be a clever way to lead a lynch on Aquacorde by making her defensiveness seem scummy -- and when she flipped Inno, then a scum!Ulli could lead a lynch on Zap for falsely "hinting" cop. Most of Ulli's other posts are "well shucks i dont know" and "i cant read people" so him being aggressive on this one person in this one moment seems out of character to his other posts. He only backs off when Krow makes a definite stance on being Cop and Aqua's innocence, backed up by Doof.

And looking back, it seems awfully convenient that NK was roleblocked the night she scanned Ulli and misinterpreted the "frosting" flavor she got notifying her she was roleblocked. Not saying that this makes Ulli scum - NK was roleblocked, so she wouldn't know - I'm just saying, it's awfully convenient excuse to invalidate the bandwagon against him.

The only thing that pokes holes in my scumread is my scum!Rainbow assumption and Rainbow's vote on Ulli, which could easily be handwaved with a mentality of "well, fuck, the cop got one of our members can't do shit about it now" on the part of Rainbow if not for the fact that scum!Rainbow would know the Vanilla Cake roleblocked Krow. But, maybe they thought something was wrong with the roleblock and went with the bandwagon anyway?

Wiicked -- I think I finally found out the reason why I'm not liking Wiicked. While gimmepie was on his deathbed, he voted Wiicked and said that a scum!Wiick was in cohorts with Ulli, and the two of them were pretty chummy:

To be fair I try to play every game the same way, so not to tip people off when I am mafia or not. Also I'm townreading Ullion right now so no I don't trust you Pie.

I'm sorta curious as to what would actually make you think either of us are mafia in particular. o.o Obviously I know I'm inno (but whatever, what i think on myself doesn't matter lol) but Wicked struck me as his typical forward self, which I don't think he is like as much when he's mafia? Unless of course you're trying some mind games here to fool us into lynching more towns. :/

Wiick jumped on the Ulli bandwagon, but I chalk this up to another case of what I prescribed Rainbow above. When Ulli was pointing out the role descriptions, this post:

What exactly did your investigation reveal? Sounds like we need to do some more research.

Feels like support for Ulli while trying to keep the guise of a know-nothing innocent. The sentence "sounds like we need to do some more research" feels so character-y, I feel like a true-blue innocent would just post the first sentence.

and blah, blah, I'm innocent and Aquacorde is confirmed to be so. Guess I had more back-up than I thought. I'll go with my initial gut feeling and [LYNCH] Wiicked, but I'd be swayed in voting for Ullion.

So, tldr;
Town -- Myself, Aquacorde, Superjolt
Scum -- Ullion, Wiicked, Rainbow/Mr Cat Dog (sub)​

 

[Wicked3DS]

Might as well give it a shot, maybe putting my thoughts down will make me come to some kind of conclusion. So, we're assuming three mafia in a lylo, correct?

Rainbow -- To be reminiscent of Krow's words, fucking who? I know that it'd be a little hypocritical of me to call out inactivity, but this is ridiculous: they have only made 2 posts minus their sign-up, which were a vote on D1 for Zap (now revealed as Doc) and a D3 two-word post hopping on the Ulli train before we discovered Krow was roleblocked; which they were pinged about due to Ulli's post, and still did nothing. The only reason I'm not trigger-happy about advocating a lynch on Rainbow is because this tastes of true truancy and can apply to both a scum!Rainbow and an inno!Rainbow context. The posts are so insubstantial. I do have a lean towards the scum angle, though -- the D3 appearance seems like a quick vote to stay in the game and not let a mafia team down by having them lose one member; I feel I'd be more likely for a inno!Rainbow to just veg and die of inactivity.

Superjolt -- Nice, well-stated posts. Can't find a reason to scumread. Super's urgency to provoke reads out of people in this eleventh hour definitely rings inno, because I just don't see a scum!Super making this move; why would he care then? However, it could read like he's trying to lead a lynch on Cat Dog, but the tenacity reads town.

Mr Cat Dog -- Though I like Super's analysis, I'm still at kind of a loss with Cat Dog. Maybe it's just because he's kinda the same kind of inactive I am, but I definitely wouldn't knock the notion. Most of his responses are either confusing or hollow to me.

Ullion -- It's pretty funny to find out that besides the GM, Ulli has made the most posts in the game. I feel like I have not been taking notice of him much. But one particular feud rings out clear, which is made all the more interesting now knowing a confirmed context of inno!Zap and inno!Aqua:


These seem incredibly antagonistic on Ulli's part for me. Now, I'm all about provoking people to get them to speak or really defend themselves (often grilling someone will lead to telling signs of their innocence in their defense) but this feels weird now knowing the context - Zap's haphazard suspicion lead to him voting an innocent, and when that innocent retaliated and there was the ever-so-slightly lowkey speculated implication that Zap was hinting he was actually cop, Ulli kind of ran with it and was the person to grill Aqua instead of Zap. This rings suss to me, since in a scum!Ulli context, this could be a clever way to lead a lynch on Aquacorde by making her defensiveness seem scummy -- and when she flipped Inno, then a scum!Ulli could lead a lynch on Zap for falsely "hinting" cop. Most of Ulli's other posts are "well shucks i dont know" and "i cant read people" so him being aggressive on this one person in this one moment seems out of character to his other posts. He only backs off when Krow makes a definite stance on being Cop and Aqua's innocence, backed up by Doof.

And looking back, it seems awfully convenient that NK was roleblocked the night she scanned Ulli and misinterpreted the "frosting" flavor she got notifying her she was roleblocked. Not saying that this makes Ulli scum - NK was roleblocked, so she wouldn't know - I'm just saying, it's awfully convenient excuse to invalidate the bandwagon against him.

The only thing that pokes holes in my scumread is my scum!Rainbow assumption and Rainbow's vote on Ulli, which could easily be handwaved with a mentality of "well, fuck, the cop got one of our members can't do shit about it now" on the part of Rainbow if not for the fact that scum!Rainbow would know the Vanilla Cake roleblocked Krow. But, maybe they thought something was wrong with the roleblock and went with the bandwagon anyway?

Wiicked -- I think I finally found out the reason why I'm not liking Wiicked. While gimmepie was on his deathbed, he voted Wiicked and said that a scum!Wiick was in cohorts with Ulli, and the two of them were pretty chummy:


Wiick jumped on the Ulli bandwagon, but I chalk this up to another case of what I prescribed Rainbow above. When Ulli was pointing out the role descriptions, this post:

Feels like support for Ulli while trying to keep the guise of a know-nothing innocent. The sentence "sounds like we need to do some more research" feels so character-y, I feel like a true-blue innocent would just post the first sentence.

and blah, blah, I'm innocent and Aquacorde is confirmed to be so. Guess I had more back-up than I thought. I'll go with my initial gut feeling and [LYNCH] Wiicked, but I'd be swayed in voting for Ullion.

So, tldr;
Town -- Myself, Aquacorde, Superjolt
Scum -- Ullion, Wiicked, Rainbow/Mr Cat Dog (sub)​

Doing research is scummy now? Yeah, that's town behavior.

[Lynch] Who's Kiyo?

This is not an OMGUS. Anyone who says gathering information is scummy can't be trusted in my book.

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

This is not an OMGUS. Anyone who says gathering information is scummy can't be trusted in my book.

My analysis of your behavior has nothing to do with the concept of research, or that I supposedly thought "wanting to gather information" was a bad thing. I was commenting on how your speech in that particular post felt like you were portraying innocence, rather than demonstrating it. It rings of phony concern and is reminiscent of an insincere "oh shucks guys, we have to get to the bottom of this!!" being said by someone who is onto the bigger picture.

I don't want to say you're being thick, but you obviously dislike reading.

 

[Wicked3DS]

My analysis of your behavior has nothing to do with the concept of research, or that I supposedly thought "wanting to gather information" was a bad thing. I was commenting on how your speech in that particular post felt like you were portraying innocence, rather than demonstrating it. It rings of phony concern and is reminiscent of an insincere "oh shucks guys, we have to get to the bottom of this!!" being said by someone who is onto the bigger picture.

I don't want to say you're being thick, but you obviously dislike reading.

Thanks for that.

So fine, you didn't say that. But you did say that just by adding one sentence I'm suddenly scummy, which is completely grasping at straws. So lynch vote stands.

Also, it wasn't that I didn't read, I simply misread it.

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

Thanks for that.

So fine, you didn't say that. But you did say that just by adding one sentence I'm suddenly scummy, which is completely grasping at straws. So lynch vote stands.

You're welcome. I also mentioned a dynamic that it seems like you have with Ulli, who I also scumread, but as we established you've a problem with reading things properly. It's fine.

You're not motivating me to think you're any less scum by your responses. Contesting my ideas and posing counterarguments or asking questions that disprove any of my assumptions would've been the inno thing to do, rather than blatantly misinterpreting my points and trying to make "no ur scum" a genuine angle to take.

Do you even have opinions on any of my other reads, or were you just so intimidated by my vote that you couldn't be asked?​

 

[Mr Cat Dog]

So it turns out, rather than getting quieter this week, work managed to get busier! Woop woop! But now it's Friday night and I've got an exciting time ahead of me reading why people think I'm mafia. Let's get to it! I'll probably edit/reply to this in an hour or so, and especially to Superjolt, once I've read up on everything.

 

[Wicked3DS]

You're welcome. I also mentioned a dynamic that it seems like you have with Ulli, who I also scumread, but as we established you've a problem with reading things properly. It's fine.

You're not motivating me to think you're any less scum by your responses. Contesting my ideas and posing counterarguments or asking questions that disprove any of my assumptions would've been the inno thing to do, rather than blatantly misinterpreting my points and trying to make "no ur scum" a genuine angle to take.

Do you even have opinions on any of my other reads, or were you just so intimidated by my vote that you couldn't be asked?​

Let's just see what everyone else thinks of our spat.

And if I'm lynched and flip Skittle, you'll see that my angle was correct.

 

[Mr Cat Dog]

First, I guess I'd like to apologise to the town for my inactivity. If I'd known I would have been so busy at work, I probably wouldn't have signed up. Now that I'm 'back', however, I'll try to make up for it, by responding to Superjolt's case against me.

I guess I should also ask MCD - what is your read on Kiyo now?

Town. Posts have been very helpful, constructive and - despite his inactivity - I trust what he has to say.

I guess the first paragraph is fair, where was Wiicked being defensive though? He finds Pecilia the scummiest player at this point but still doesn't really explain why. Also, why would scum be more likely to claim VT (skittle)?

Re: Wiicked, I found his post at #30 unnecessarily aggressive, and #42 a bit defensive. Can't really say much more than that, especially as rereading them brings out the same reaction. Re: Pecilia, I didn't like how he was quick to pin suspicion on what seemed to me like an obvious joke post by Zap. Re: scum claiming VT, because it's not counter-claimable? It can be used to blend in. Having said that, I might as well role reveal and say I'm a Skittle also, so make of that what you will.

Jumps off Pecilia wagon here for the last minute Gunner wagon. Does he see the GP wagon growing and think the Pecilia wagon might fall through? Or does he just think Gunner is an easier lynch? (noting also Gunner flipped inno)

By this point, I thought Pecilia was town, due to reasons I'll explain below.

I'm wondering what changed between the post where he votes Pecilia and the post where he votes Gunner. He had just said that Pecilia's claim is "one that a mafia would make" but suddenly town reads him? It's kind of weird because Pecilia's posts on Page 2 were townier than his posts on Page 3 imo. What was it about Pecilia's posts on the previous page that didn't "track with his playstyle"?

I've played (and GMd) games with Pecilia when he's been town and mafia, and I believe in all of them he has been lynched (although in the one I GMd, he was shot, so RIP Jennifer Melfi!). In the games where he was innocent, he was much more forthright about his innocence, and posted a lot in order to drum up last minute support; in games where he was mafia, he would often just accept his fate with a shitpost or two. The fact that he was protesting so vociferously indicated his innocence, which is why I wanted to remove my vote from him, and onto the next best target, which happened to be gunner.

I didn't like how he only popped in to question Nightkrow's results on D2, but he does say he was busy and at least admits he's not being as productive as he should be.

Yeah, I'm disappointed in myself, as I wanted to get stuck into this one.

Also, even though he did get off the Pecilia wagon, he's one of the players that voted him and is still alive - out of the players that voted Pecilia, one flipped town, one flipped cult recruit, one is conftown (Anna), so if we want to think the wagon was scum driven, MCD fits here

I'm a bit confused here... I didn't vote Pecilia in the end? I'll accept responsibility for starting the wagon, as my initial 'thought' was very off-base but sincere in its intent.

[Lynch] Mr Cat Dog

:( but understandable, given my inactivity.

This part mostly directed just at MCD:

Did you see Rainbow as the next scummiest player or is the vote just for being inactive?

Mostly inactivity, but given my current reads as detailed below, it still stands.

I'm voting you rn, but still want to hear from you though since you said you'll be active again and we are in LYLO after all

Hope this has helped you with your questions. My reads below:

Superjolt: Despite your thoughts against me, I'm townreading you the most (apart from Anna, obvs). In fact, it's because of your thorough and direct questioning of my behaviour so far (which I'll admit hasn't been the best) that I believe you're town - why would a mafia protest so vigorously against someone they knew was town, rather than letting the town come to their own conclusion against that person?
Aquacorde: Also town, because of earlier events, although if she hadn't been confirmed, I'm not quite as sure where I'd stand on her. But luckily I don't have to think about that!
Who's Kiyo?: Town. I really like his post at #174. Though some of the other players (especially Ullion) have also made posts with similar levels of detail, I find the reasoning and logic hard to argue with. If he was mafia, I don't think he'd be throwing his teammates under the bus so expertly (especially when they haven't lost a member yet) so I think he's bang on the money.

So, by process of elimination, that leaves Ullion, Wiicked and Rainbow as mafia. Rainbow hasn't done anything, so I don't feel too bad; I didn't like Wiicked's response to the 'spat' between him and Kiyo, so I also don't feel too bad about calling him out as scum; Ullion's last ditch attempt to throw the vote of Zap, while I thought it was sincere at first, now strikes me as being a bit too close to the wire to have any form of effect, and seems in hindsight a bit hollow.

So, to help things out, I'll also [Lynch] Wiicked, as he's already got a vote on him. Lets get a wagon going, choo choo!

 

[Ullion]

So I'd like to say: I'm sure I'm not the only one that is happy to see MCD put in a post explaining his thoughts on everyone. I'm also super worried about how split all our votes are. Why, you may ask? Because if town splits their votes too much, it'll make it easier for the mafia to co-ordinate their votes and get the winning lynch they need. As for my absence for earlier this day - I don't have a real good reason, I was just lazing about in bed allday watching AoT and playing FE:fates. x_x

Anyways, onto the juicy stuff:

Ullion's last ditch attempt to throw the vote of Zap, while I thought it was sincere at first, now strikes me as being a bit too close to the wire to have any form of effect, and seems in hindsight a bit hollow.

So I see where you're coming from, and I figured it was too late, but I thought it was worth a shot. if it didn't work, then it didn't work and the lynch would have stayed the same. If enough people did switch though, we would have slowed the mafia down (potentially*, pending on the result of our changed lynch) by an extra phase. While not a lot, would have given us some more breathing room. I figured it was worth a shot, since we wouldn't lose anything extra for trying.

And @Kiyo, I can see where you're coming from saying I was being antagonistic towards Anna on day 2 and rushing things by joining Zap's lynch vote. But, as I explained earlier, I wanted to create more discussion earlier in the game - rather than leaving the discussion to last minute. Even if the discussion revolves around me being scummy or innocent - I'm happy it got us talking and communicating more. Hell, it gives us more to work on throughout the entire game, including this phase here. I endeavor to do stuff like this in games that feel slower/less talkative to generate discussion, because games that lack it typically go in mafia's favour (since they can get away by playing scummy and have less content to be scumread in).

As for the Nightkrow being roleblocked part... I legit thinking you're grasping at straws here. How is her being roleblocked a convenient excuse for stopping the bandwagon against myself? Are you saying if you were innocent you wouldn't try to figure out why the cop's report had you come up as mafia when there is no miller role or another role to change your appearence when checked? It was literally the only logical solution. As for the timing of Nightkrow being roleblocked... I'm disappointed you didn't put it together that she got roleblocked that night because it was the first night after she publicly revealed herself. Of course the mafia would roleblock her, who else would they go for?

As for the debate between Wicked/Kiyo - that ahs me interested. Going in to this day's phase I was slightly scumreading Kiyo and slightly townreading Wicked. And despite Kiyo's flawed (imo) arguements against me in the same posts, I think his points against Wicked do sound more valid. I also find Kiyo's tone and aggressiveness this phase much more fitting of a desperate town as opposed to cunning mafia. Mixed in with what I said at the start of my post (town can't split their votes, or we risk mafia swaying the votes the wrong way) and the towntones I've gotten from both MCD and Kiyo this phase has me fairly confident that I was wrong coming into today and that Wicked is most likely scum as opposed to Kiyo. As such, my vote stands as [Lynch] Wicked

 

[Wicked3DS]

Based on this, I'm guessing that either Kiyo or Ullion are mafia.

Either way, this is easily the most incompetent town I've played with. Also:

but as we established you've a problem with reading things properly. It's fine.

It would be nice if you could not be such a dick.

 

[Superjolt]

Let's just see what everyone else thinks of our spat.

And if I'm lynched and flip Skittle, you'll see that my angle was correct.

Kiyo's response to you in #178 is pretty spot on imo. I don't know why you're waiting for comments on you vs Kiyo this close to deadline, Kiyo is right that you should be countering/refuting his points. If you're town, is it impossible for someone that suspects you to also be town?

Why did you ignore my questions on the previous page?

@MCD sry I'll get to that post in a moment

EDIT:

Re: Wiicked, I found his post at #30 unnecessarily aggressive, and #42 a bit defensive. Can't really say much more than that, especially as rereading them brings out the same reaction. Re: Pecilia, I didn't like how he was quick to pin suspicion on what seemed to me like an obvious joke post by Zap. Re: scum claiming VT, because it's not counter-claimable? It can be used to blend in. Having said that, I might as well role reveal and say I'm a Skittle also, so make of that what you will.

Ok, I think I see, you mean Zap's post just looked like an obvious joke post independent of what Zap's meta might be? Maybe that's fair then. RE: Scum claiming VT, I guess that's true but I was more wondering why the claim looked scummy coming from Pecilia specifcally

By this point, I thought Pecilia was town, due to reasons I'll explain below.

I've played (and GMd) games with Pecilia when he's been town and mafia, and I believe in all of them he has been lynched (although in the one I GMd, he was shot, so RIP Jennifer Melfi!). In the games where he was innocent, he was much more forthright about his innocence, and posted a lot in order to drum up last minute support; in games where he was mafia, he would often just accept his fate with a ****post or two. The fact that he was protesting so vociferously indicated his innocence, which is why I wanted to remove my vote from him, and onto the next best target, which happened to be gunner.

Ok, given this explanation though, what was it about Pecilia's earlier posts that seemed like him just "accepting his fate"? His posts on page 2 are in line with his initial suspicion of Zap. His posts had an underlying tone of "this wagon on me is dumb". (Maybe I'm slightly biased because I thought Pecilia looked obv-town from the beginning and also thought the reasoning against him was dumb). Also having an FoS on someone for a joke post isn't a scumtell

I'm a bit confused here... I didn't vote Pecilia in the end? I'll accept responsibility for starting the wagon, as my initial 'thought' was very off-base but sincere in its intent.

I know, but given the flips we have, I was looking in the group still alive that had voted Pecilia at any point, because I don't think it's impossible for scum to be in there given the flips of others on the wagon. (Also Gunner flipped inno so it did seem a little weird that you were on 2 wagons against town on D1)

 

[gimmepie]

Based on this, I'm guessing that either Kiyo or Ullion are mafia.

Either way, this is easily the most incompetent town I've played with. Also:

It would be nice if you could not be such a dick.

I think it would be nice if we could all not be dicks.

 

[Who's Kiyo?]

It would be nice if you could not be such a dick.

I think it would be nice if we could all not be dicks.

On a side note outside of the game, I do say everything all in good fun and without the intention to actually imply that anyone is unintelligent. My humor derives from a very prickly and sardonic place, so I apologize if my provoking has extended past the realm of the game and making you upset or uncomfortable, Wiicked.

As for the Nightkrow being roleblocked part... I legit thinking you're grasping at straws here. How is her being roleblocked a convenient excuse for stopping the bandwagon against myself? Are you saying if you were innocent you wouldn't try to figure out why the cop's report had you come up as mafia when there is no miller role or another role to change your appearence when checked? It was literally the only logical solution. As for the timing of Nightkrow being roleblocked... I'm disappointed you didn't put it together that she got roleblocked that night because it was the first night after she publicly revealed herself. Of course the mafia would roleblock her, who else would they go for?

I'm not saying your defense that day wasn't valid or calling into question the roleblockling itself. It's was me simply saying "it was awfully convenient" that you were able to defend yourself so legitimately. More a toungue-in-check remark than actual evidence to call you scum, which I have already said. Next time when you say someone's "grasping at straws" try to be less ironic.​