Charlottesville car attack

[Aliencommander1245]

Mewtwolover is fond of making vaguely racist remarks and linking alt right sources for claims, it's a little frustrating

 

[Leafsfan]

BLM protests are like that but don't let them fool you. The truth is that BLM is racist anti-white movement, here's what BLM co-founder has said about whites: https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/...ounder-white-people-are-sub-daniel-greenfield

Of course she wont get punished for that because racism against whites is allowed which is wrong, it isn't any different than racism against blacks.

And yes, nazism and white supremacy are bad ideologies as well. Every live matters equally.

Pretty ridiculous comments. There's a difference between standing up for what you believe (whether or not it is true) is an injustice towards your own race and purposely inciting and creating violence against another group to prove whatever point you are trying to make.

I may not support Black Lives Matter, but they don't go plowing cars into groups of white people in hopes of killing one. That heinous of an act is usually carried out by the worst of people - terrorists, and now clearly white supremacists. Everyone has the right to peacefully and vocally protest against anything they disagree with, they don't have the right to kill people because of those disagreements.

Next time you want to compare an activist movement to a violent act of terrorism, get your facts straight.

 

[Kanzler]

BLM protests are like that but don't let them fool you. The truth is that BLM is racist anti-white movement, here's what BLM co-founder has said about whites: https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/...ounder-white-people-are-sub-daniel-greenfield

Of course she wont get punished for that because racism against whites is allowed which is wrong, it isn't any different than racism against blacks.

And yes, nazism and white supremacy are bad ideologies as well. Every live matters equally.

Speaking up about this cuz I live in Toronto and all where her BLM chapter is from.

Yeah she did say all that, and yeah that did not win her many fans. I don't think our BLM chapters are taken as seriously as the ones in the States. For many reasons, some including that in Canada although black people do suffer from stigma and discrimination to some extent, we've never had the tortured history involving the slavery, the Civil War, the South, Reconstruction, the Civil Rights movement, and the War on Drugs, among other significant historical traumas. The oppressed minority whose issues have the same visibility as blacks have in the US would be Indigenous Canadians, imo, but that's another issue - the point is that black issues in Canada just simply do not run as deep and is not as central in our national consciousness. Black people I know have various levels of support for BLM, when they do express support for it it's usually for the cause, not the leaders. Those who don't like BLM tell me it's a joke and express quite simply we're not in America and the BLM we have here don't really have a reason to exist.

Regarding what she said, yeah it's basically a black analogue of the sort of pseudoscience that were popular amongst fascists and eugenicists in history and white supremacists today. Reading into a genetic defect (impaired melanin production) some kind of moral or ethnic defect is on the same level as using skull measurements to support the inferiority of Blacks and Jews. There's really no reason for it.

But she leads BLM in Toronto, which is not the BLM in Chicago, or Baltimore, or Atlanta, or whatever other important American cities there are. Also, esoteric black supremacy is as fringe of a fringe ideology as they come. White people who talk about black supremacy like it's equivalent to white supremacy are really reaching - when you go to sleep at night, you'd never consider the possibility of Yusra Khogali coming after you with a pitchfork but for the rest of us non-white people we kind of have to consider the possibility of some white supremacist accosting you armed with an AR-15 all the while getting in your face about how it's their 2nd Amendment right to run around with a firearm. Because people actually do the second thing, we have a total hullabaloo right now and it's been reasonably high profile in the past too.

Regarding the source: they've reported the facts, but that's not all they did. The quoted material from the Toronto Sun (which is a conservative newspaper, admittedly) is legit, as is their reference to the Nation of Islam and Black Nationalism circles. That's where the actual journalism ends, though. They then claim that those kind of comments became normalized. Really? I bet you didn't even know black people could turn the rhetoric of genetic racism on white people until you read that article. And then they go one to suggest that these views are representative of the BLM at large, and indirectly to those people who champion for the rights of black people and the left in general. Quite simply, they aren't. BLM is a social movement against black discrimination with an extreme wing of questionable significance which might call for violence or spout racism against white people. White supremacy does not have an extreme wing - it's an extreme ideology.

The reason that nobody calls out the Yusra Khogalis of the world is that nobody takes what they say seriously, except for white right extremists who even then don't call it out because they're really hurt by it - but because it fuels their cause. The conspiracy to misinform you about BLM and other advocates for black status in society is much much much bigger than the conspiracy of black people who want to murder all whites in their sleep.

Does that explanation help at all?

 

[Sir Codin]

 

[Altairis]

people keep saying "of course the BLM people won't get punished" "of course it's okay when BLM riots" but i'm not sure where anybody said any of these things, especially here, when people keep saying the aforementioned phrases as counterarguments. it's already been explained what the difference in the two causes are and I can't say it any better than they did so i'll just leave it.

I'm about to sound really stupid for a second, but why do the nazis/KKK keep calling the other side communists? I don't really feel like racial equality means communism... so why are they pulling this term out?

 

[gimmepie]

I'm about to sound really stupid for a second, but why do the nazis/KKK keep calling the other side communists? I don't really feel like racial equality means communism... so why are they pulling this term out?

Communism and socialism really negative connotations in the US as remnants from the red scare and the Cold War. Right-wingers like to bring them out to discredit liberals.

 

[Esper]

This isn't about Charlottesville exactly, but the rally that some other white supremacists (or neo-Nazis or whatever) were planning to hold in San Francisco got called off. People opposed to the rally had planned to take all the available parking spaces early in the morning so that in order to get the park the neo-Nazis wanted to rally in (which was federal land) they'd have to travel through the city of San Francisco, which isn't and doesn't allow open carry of weapons. Additionally, the city had planned to cancel most of its bus service this weekend, and law enforcement in the area had decided that for public safety they wouldn't allow weapons, helmets, or large bags at the rally.

 

[Günther1]

If it looks like a Nazi, supports white nationalism like a Nazi, and quacks like a Nazi, it's a fucking Nazi.

Nazis want "Aryan" supremacy, in which any non-Germanic group is lower on their totem pole of racial hegemony. Any other ethnicity or race is either deemed to be lower or an undesirable, in which case the undesirables are executed. Not every white supremacist is a Nazi, but every Nazi is a white supremacist.

You can knock it off with the false flag narrative right now, nobody is talking about "calling them nazis for argument points" Nazis, we're talking about genuine swastika-tattoo, unabashed xenophobe, racial diversity hating Nazis here. On the one side, we have an entire militant demonstration designed to advocate white supremacy and genocide, and on the other, we have people who react violently when they are told that this militant demonstration is for the specific purpose of advocating the mass murder of them and their loved ones. These two are not the same.

The other side you are describing are Antifa, a Marxist group who has been known for political violence against those whom they believe to be a Nazi, white supremacist, Trump voter/supporter and will threaten their "political allies". They believe in an inherently violent ideology that requires an insurrection to completely usurp the state and kill off any and all counter-revolutionaries. Antifa's recent go back to even the Berkeley protests and have been coming to these protests armed before these white supremacists. This only led to more and more protesters arming themselves for self-defense purposes; in short, your approval of violence will lead to nothing more but another Weimar Republic in which the left-wing will become the pariah of a new authoritarian state. They too came in armed and were willing to instigate, however I haven't seen footage of them attacking first in this protest.

Nazism and white supremacy are ideologies advocating racial purity and genocide of races deemed inferior. There's no room for discussion here and if there is, your either one of them or you badly need to rethink your views on neutrality and moderation.

Communism and other authoritarian/anarchist ideologies advocate for social collectivism via the worker (unlike social collectivism via race) and the complete destruction of the state and purge of the counter-revolutionary. Your point is the generic "Us Vs. Them" rhetoric, and if you cannot disavow these Marxists, you are thus a Marxist. We do not need to attack them, it is better to mock them. Start a fucking money drive in which you donate a dollar to anti-Nazi charities for reach step a Nazi marches in on of their marches with signs on the ground to openly mock them about how much money they are donating to causes they hate.

Fighting Nazis doesn't make the other side "just as bad." It's not hypocrisy, it's not fascism, it's not anti-free speech, it's not anti-diversity, it's not terrorism.

All political violence on civilians, by definition, is terrorism. Any use of force to prevent one from speaking their mind is anti-free speech. This is black and white, there is no gray zone. Quite frankly, both sides need to be placed to the wall and shot if they cause more violence.

It's self-defense.

Unless these protesters start attacking people, attacking them is not self-defense. It is mindless political violence.

Spoiler:

Flying Communist flags and Anarcho-Communist flags calls for the purging of the dissident and the bourgeoisie/petit-bourgeoisie, leading to the oppression and death of millions using this logic. Flying a flag isn't an incitement of violence by itself, only a call for fellow protestors to meet and stay as a collective.

As strong a supporter of the First Amendment as I am, I can't support the rights of people who call for ethnic cleansing. I'm not going to go as far as some as to say diversity is our greatest strength, or anything like that. But I do appreciate that the US has always had a goal of being a place where anyone regardless of demographic characteristics has a chance at success. To enforce this will at times require civil disobedience and even violent force, but we are talking about using force against people who have threatened others' very existence. And yes, when the criminal justice system, including the courts and police force, along with the President, side with violent white supremacists, violent revolution is probably necessary to vanquish such a cancerous force.

The courts sided with them because everything they did was legal under the Constitution until they committed violence. The police force didn't side with them, but probably arrested opposing violent protesters as well. The President did not side with them, as most of his speeches regarding the matter condemned both sides that committed political violence. These people should be able to say whatever they want without government repression as long as it does not incite and violence, including talking about ethnic cleansing if it does not cause violence.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

The other side you are describing are Antifa, a Marxist group who has been known for political violence against those whom they believe to be a Nazi, white supremacist, Trump voter/supporter and will threaten their "political allies". They believe in an inherently violent ideology that requires an insurrection to completely usurp the state and kill off any and all counter-revolutionaries. Antifa's recent go back to even the Berkeley protests and have been coming to these protests armed before these white supremacists. This only led to more and more protesters arming themselves for self-defense purposes; in short, your approval of violence will lead to nothing more but another Weimar Republic in which the left-wing will become the pariah of a new authoritarian state. They too came in armed and were willing to instigate, however I haven't seen footage of them attacking first in this protest.

Hey guess what, this is entierly nonsense starting from your marxism dog whistle all the way through to implying there was any kind of prevailing ideology within the movement.

Antifa isn't a single group, it's a label applied to people who're, obviously, anti-fascist. Applying anything else to that label like they're some kind of shady shadow government trying to silence people is garbage nonsense and adds nothing to this discussion

Communism and other authoritarian/anarchist ideologies advocate for social collectivism via the worker (unlike social collectivism via race) and the complete destruction of the state and purge of the counter-revolutionary. Your point is the generic "Us Vs. Them" rhetoric, and if you cannot disavow these Marxists, you are thus a Marxist. We do not need to attack them, it is better to mock them. Start a ****ing money drive in which you donate a dollar to anti-Nazi charities for reach step a Nazi marches in on of their marches with signs on the ground to openly mock them about how much money they are donating to causes they hate.

Hey look, more red scare dog whistling

All political violence on civilians, by definition, is terrorism. Any use of force to prevent one from speaking their mind is anti-free speech. This is black and white, there is no gray zone. Quite frankly, both sides need to be placed to the wall and shot if they cause more violence.


Unless these protesters start attacking people, attacking them is not self-defense. It is mindless political violence.


Flying Communist flags and Anarcho-Communist flags calls for the purging of the dissident and the bourgeoisie/petit-bourgeoisie, leading to the oppression and death of millions using this logic. Flying a flag isn't an incitement of violence by itself, only a call for fellow protestors to meet and stay as a collective.

This is a lot of big words and philosophic dribbling to basically just say this

The courts sided with them because everything they did was legal under the Constitution until they committed violence. The police force didn't side with them, but probably arrested opposing violent protesters as well. The President did not side with them, as most of his speeches regarding the matter condemned both sides that committed political violence. These people should be able to say whatever they want without government repression as long as it does not incite and violence, including talking about ethnic cleansing if it does not cause violence.

Endorsing ethnic cleansing, chanting in the streets about killing people and walking around threateningly with weapons is 1000000% inciting violence, what are you even talking about?

If i walk around in front of the whitehouse with a gun and yell that I want to murder the president, i'm going to be arrested. A bunch of armed nazis chanting about how they want to murder jewish people (Especially in a rally where a woman was literally murdered by one of them) is threatening and inciting violence

 

[Günther1]

Hey guess what, this is entierly nonsense starting from your marxism dog whistle all the way through to implying there was any kind of prevailing ideology within the movement.

There is no "Marxist" dog whistle here; most if not all Antifa groups always carry the flag of the anarcho-communists and anarcho-syndicalists and always call for violent direct action towards the state, fascists and opposing forces. It originated as this very thing (but with more violent left-wing groups) in the Weimar Republic around 1932.

Antifa isn't a single group, it's a label applied to people who're, obviously, anti-fascist. Applying anything else to that label like they're some kind of shady shadow government trying to silence people is garbage nonsense and adds nothing to this discussion.

This is incorrect; Antifa is short for a group called Anti-Fascist Action, which is a group originating from Germany as a Marxist/Anarchist counter-resistance to the Nazi Brownshirts before the fire at Reichstag and the enabling acts came to be. They are the successor to the violent Spartacists.

Hey look, more red scare dog whistling

Hardly. Communism advocates for the destruction of the state, and either the reinstatement of the state through an oppressive regime (Stalinism, Maoism, Marxist-Leninism, Juche,) or complete anarchy (Marxism), creating dangerous conditions for anyone not aligned with the cause. In both cases, it leads to social collectivism by mob rule or by a ruling oligarchical party/autocratic rule.

This is a lot of big words and philosophic dribbling to basically just say this

image

Or, maybe you can't get it through your skull that offensive direct violence is morally wrong even if the person is advocating for ideals that are against yours or are chanting for hateful ideologies. All political violence is paramount to terrorism, especially if you are attacking civilians and should be treated as such. I would happily send the National Guard to execute every violent protestors from both sides in Charlottesville just for this point alone. Another thing you need to consider is that by treating extremists inhumanely, not only will you strengthen their ideals (especially if they have fallen for the victimhood narrative like these white nationalists whom believe that white genocide is upon us), but you will make people sympathetic to their cause and less likely to side with your cause even if it is the right one, as committing political violence is essentially forfeiting to debate and thus losing the argument.

Endorsing ethnic cleansing, chanting in the streets about killing people and walking around threateningly with weapons is 1000000% inciting violence, what are you even talking about?

If i walk around in front of the whitehouse with a gun and yell that I want to murder the president, i'm going to be arrested. A bunch of armed nazis chanting about how they want to murder jewish people (Especially in a rally where a woman was literally murdered by one of them) is threatening and inciting violence

Endorsing ethnic cleansing isn't likely to incite violence, but it is likely to incite violence if you say something along the lines of "we need to start this now" around a huge community of Israelis. You also seem to forget that Antifa themselves came into this very protest armed and have been setting that precedent since Berkeley, especially with the famous bike lock basher. If you have actually read the Court House documents, it has to be likely to incite violence or death at that moment.

And, it seems to be public opinion that Antifa instigated the violence between protestors at Berkeley Charlottesville. However, I cannot really confirm this and if I found a source, I am lacking in a way to post it since I need 5 posts.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

I didn't end up gathering the energy to respond to Gunther's sewer torrent up there, but here's an interesting article on the fallout from this rally and this act of terrorism leading to a murder. The Alt-right communities are being torn up both internally and externally after this botched attempt at a violent protest turned into national despise

https://itsgoingdown.org/big-trouble-in-little-nazi-town/