Do you believe in Jesus/God?

Believe in Jesus/God

  • Yes

    Votes: 57 46.7%

  • No

    Votes: 49 40.2%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 16 13.1%
  • Total voters
    122
Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm an apatheist. As Wikipedia puts it, an apatheist believes that the question of whether a god exists of not is not relevent to human life.
In other words: I don't care.

Assuming hypothetically that a god does exist though, he/she/it is clearly malevolent.
 
Yes, because there really are some records that explain crucifixtion during the time of Jesus, and how can there be no God?

Somthing had to create that little thumbnail of mass that exploded and is now known as the Big Bang Theory. And Adam and Eve, and the Garden are just really a way to explain how the earth was created, not saying that it was created by God in the exact same way.
 
I do believe, I mean I don't really believe that the world started because of the big bang and how else do all these miracles in are every day lives happen?
 
Now, I know we're not allowed to discuss anymore, but I went trough the trouble of writing this post and it best tells why I believe what I believe. So, I'm not debating or discussing, I'm just telling you about my beliefs while responding to few statements at the same time. Please, do not respond to me. I'm just justifying my beliefs here :P

Start your ignoring here! The rest is the post I cannot bare to delete even though I know I shouldn't post it.

By the way, I'm really happy FinalFlare went with actual reasoning and arguments rather than the empty arguments you often see when it comes to debate about religion.

FinalFlare said:
The Kalam cosmological argument goes as follows:

1.) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2.) The universe began to exist.
3.) Therefore, the universe has a cause.

The first premise is pretty obvious. Things do not just pop into existence uncaused out of nothing. For every effect, there is a cause. This is constantly verified in our experience and never falsified.
Click to expand...

This is thought a bit wrong here. Everything indeed exists for a cause, but that cause is the simple fact it popped into existence. You seem to think this in a way that "everything has to be made, and if something is made, it has to be made for some cause". This, however, is not true. Everything has a cause, as in everything is caused by something, but not everything serves a purpose. Also, not everything is made. It is very humane to think that everything has to serve a purpose, but it doesn't have to be that way. It's never verified except in our experience, but our experience is a very subjective matter and therefore isn't reliable. It has never been aqqurately verified that everything has a purpose.

The second premise I fully admit to be true, as well as your arguments for it. However, as the first premise cannot be proven, the conclusion is also a subject to doubt.

The moral argument can be formulated as follows:

1.) If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.
2.) Objective moral values and duties do exist.
3.) Therefore, God exists.

...

The second premise is the main point, and seems intuitively obvious to most people. Most people would agree that torturing babies is objectively wrong no matter what culture you live in. Most people would agree that burning a widow alive after the death of her husband is objectively wrong regardless of personal opinion. Most people believe that the holocaust was wrong, and would still be wrong even if the Nazis had won WWII and killed or brainwashed everyone who disagreed with them so that it was universally believed that is was right.
Click to expand...

This, unfortunately, isn't true. It does seem intuitively obvious, but it isn't so regardless of what we might think. We intuitively think all other people have the same moral values as we do. For example, I often intuitively thought it was obvious that people wouldn't want to drink or smoke when they're underaged because it's illegal. As we all know, it really isn't so. Also, there are major cultural differencies. For example, in some countries only woman can be guilty of adultry and they don't think there's anything wrong with that. In other countries, they think that everything's wrong with a system like that. Now, isn't there a clear difference in moral values? Also, almost a fifth of Earth's population thinks killing a cow is as bad as killing a person. Still, four fifths disagree on this, some going to the extenct of slaughtering masses of sick cows so that no human can get their disease. Another huge difference in moral values.

However, I agree that there are some moral values that seem to be universal to all religions and seem intuitively wrong to all individuals, such as torturing babies. These values, however, are derived from our biological needs. The need to preserve our species has left its mark on our brain and thus we find it hard to hurt babies or small children. This is a feature universal to many other species as well.

Despite those universal moral values, there are no such things as all-objective moral values. Even some Christian communities have great differencies in their moral codes. Moral values are always taken from the society around you as well as your individual goals and are a subject of change for your whole lifetime.

The fine-tuning argument can be formulated as follows:

1.) The fine-tuning of the universe is the result of either physical necessity, chance, or design.
2.) It is not due to physical necessity or chance.
3.) Therefore, it is due to design.

There are multiple physical constants that are incredibly fine-tuned (e.g., the electromagnetic interaction, the weak force, strong force, gravitation, the ratio of proton to electron mass, etc.) so that if they were slightly altered just one way or another, life could not exist.
Click to expand...

...That's what the scientists presume. This is, however, where the beauty of science steps in. You see, science isn't predetermined. It's a subject to change at all times: whenever a new, more accurate and plausible explanation comes along, the old one is put aside and the new one accepted as the truth for the time being. Science knows it'll never reach the truth, but is still constantly trying to get closer to reality. We cannot know if scientists are really right about that stuff.

This fine-tuning could not just be by chance. For every one of these constants to just happen to be at the precise quantity at the same time so that life could exist is just ridiculously improbable.
Click to expand...

Why couldn't it be? If you have a thousand dices, it's highly impropable that every single one of them will roll a six. However, it is possible, and might even happen when you try to do so. It might be ridiculously improbable, yes, but so is the chance that someone dies in a plane crash. Yet a lot of people still die in plane crashes. Saying that something is highly impropable and therefore not true is a bad argument.

Also, you missed one important way these things could have come to existence. Evolution. There's no doubt that living things evolve, as we've seen it happen during the course of history. Why couldn't other things evolve, too? We cannot understand something like that, for our life span is a bit short and we tend to think everything that lives does it our way. But viruses, for example, aren't living things, yet they still evolve. Nothing tells us that this is the only universe there is, or the first ever to be born. There are still a lot of mysteries that await us. If we just decide it was God who did it and then sit back contently because we've solved everything, we'll never accomplish anything again.

You can stop ingoring now.

The most important reason for the fact I'm not Christian is that I cannot believe into some unchanging set of rules. Why can't gay people get married? Why should we believe undoubtingly into something written more than two thousand years ago? Why doesn't christianity adapt its laws and moral codes to new information when it comes? Why doesn't anyone ever answer these questions?

I believe in science because it adapts to new information. It changes. It admits it was wrong and proceeds to find new information. Science is active, whereas christianity is passive. Science is moving forward, whereas christianity tries to stay in the past. That's why my faith lies in science. That's why I don't believe in God.
 
Last edited:
I don't know, honestly. I'm not religious, no one in my family is, really, but I like to think that there's someone/something out there, as in a celestial being. But I don't know.
 
I don't really believe in a god, neither in Jesus. I think you can influence your life yourself, you don't need someone to tell you what to do.
 
i think there is a force driving this unvierse...man named it god,guess my answer is yes
 
I don't believe in anyone saying how to live your life.

But I don't believe in the big bang either, so maybe there exists something of someone who created us.
 
Quite an equal post tbh. Lots of people have different views which suprised me. I was expecting "Yes" to dominate =P
 
Saying that you don't believe in Jesus is pretty ignorant..You don't have to beleive that he did all that "water to wine" stuff but theres evidence that Jesus Christ existed. As for God as in "the father" long story short: Agnostic is the way to go. To me it seems pointless to state that you think God exists or he doesn't. Why not sit back and find out? ^_^ However i do know fine well that the world would never stop arguing over religion now..I doubt =P
 
We can't really sit back and find out because there's no way that we'll ever know one way or the other. And I actually do believe that Jesus Christ existed, but as you say, I doubt all the miracles he performed actually happened. If we're basing those things on what is stated in the bible, we can take it with a pinch of salt.
 
Lol fair enough i suppose Horizon ^__^ I did have some kind of theory as to why i am agnostic, but i've forgotten it XD I just think it's a more sensible option than arguing one point or another :P

And of course, i instantly agree with you on the bible. That book is a complilation of stories from over 40 different auteurs from that time, how can it be solidly believed? XD that's my opinion anyway
 
NoBel_ToKYo ™ said:
Saying that you don't believe in Jesus is pretty ignorant..You don't have to beleive that he did all that "water to wine" stuff but theres evidence that Jesus Christ existed. As for God as in "the father" long story short: Agnostic is the way to go. To me it seems pointless to state that you think God exists or he doesn't. Why not sit back and find out? ^_^ However i do know fine well that the world would never stop arguing over religion now..I doubt =P
Click to expand...

Because a true believer would never just "sit back and find out" because that goes against everything that religion is and--seeing as this is a Christian predominated thread--the bible tells us to do. You either believe in God and follow His word or you don't and it's that simple.

For me personally it would take a much larger suspension of disbelief to believe in something like the Big Bang.

So in short, yes, I am a Christian and a born again one at that.
 
jasonresno said:
Because a true believer would never just "sit back and find out" because that goes against everything that religion is and--seeing as this is a Christian predominated thread--the bible tells us to do. You either believe in God and follow His word or you don't and it's that simple.

For me personally it would take a much larger suspension of disbelief to believe in something like the Big Bang.

So in short, yes, I am a Christian and a born again one at that.
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean, striving to find an answer as to what created our race is part of the complex of a humans natural curiosity. I lost my faith a long time ago, so i have no choice but to respect you for stating what you believe ^_^

But i really don't think faith is that simple at all. Faith in religion/anything is a state of mind, that is made very spiritual and real in everything we do, that's not a simple thing at all.

And for the record, i'm not a "true believer" because i am an agnostic.

When i said that, what i basically meant is that i'd rather listen to what other people have to say about it. Maybe one day somebody may say something that convinces me to either side, or an experience might happen in my life.

In the bible, God tells us that we have the freedom to either worship him, or ignore him. I try to do neither =P and just sit on the fence..for now XD

As for the big bang...where the people who theorized it (i.e stephen hawking) would even start theorizing and thinking of reason like the big bang is completely beyond me. :D

PS: How is this a christian pre-dominated thread? Ive seen plenty of atheists and theists alike state their views here..Correct me if i'm wrong though :D *sweatdrops*
 
Last edited:
NoBel_ToKYo ™ said:
I understand what you mean, striving to find an answer as to what created our race is part of the complex of a humans natural curiosity. I lost my faith a long time ago, so i have no choice but to respect you for stating what you believe ^_^

But i really don't think faith is that simple at all. Faith in religion/anything is a state of mind, that is made very spiritual and real in everything we do, that's not a simple thing at all.

And for the record, i'm not a "true believer" because i am an agnostic.

When i said that, what i basically meant is that i'd rather listen to what other people have to say about it. Maybe one day somebody may say something that convinces me to either side, or an experience might happen in my life.

In the bible, God tells us that we have the freedom to either worship him, or ignore him. I try to do neither =P and just sit on the fence..for now XD

As for the big bang...where the people who theorized it (i.e stephen hawking) would even start theorizing and thinking of reason like the big bang is completely beyond me. :D

PS: How is this a christian pre-dominated thread? Ive seen plenty of atheists and theists alike state their views here..Correct me if i'm wrong though :D *sweatdrops*
Click to expand...
No offense taken or meant. By Christian predominated I meant that most of the discussions involve Christ and God rather than Buddha or some other religion.
 
Lol good to know ^__^

Ah, so that's what you meant by christian pre-dominated..Thanks for pointing it out :D

Sadly nowadays i am quite indecisive about my faith...I persevere, though XD
 
I believe in a god, yes, but not the biblical kind of god, I don't believe god is an individual or someone who passes judgement, I believe god is a universal entity^^
 
I believe in God simply because there must be someone who made us we did not just show up out of no where. I am aware of the big bang THEORY but how could nothingness have something in it? Kinda confusing eh! We weren't put here by accident y'know.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top