Fanfiction Lounge

[Negrek]

How do they continue after the whoever it is finds himself/herself in the game? Does he/she go on a good ol' OT journey or get tangled into a shipping? I did suspect there are those, but I didn't dare to think there'd be that many. I think I'll go and see myself. You know, to have a bit of fanfic-education. And you never know if there's a good one hiding behind all the crap.

Both are common. The OT route is probably more well-tread, but "lol X canon character becomes my TWU LUV" is also far from unheard of.

I would recommend Farla's Reality from this genre.

 

[bobandbill]

Another is (no link ATM, find it yourself =P) is BladedScizor's 'Mastering a New start' - it's not a 15-year-old who gets transported, but still a good read.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

Hey all, I was just wondering about, y'know, cliches and stuff. Well, the Team Rocket/Magma/Aqua/Galactic without guns and weapons.

Well, in my fanfic, guns aren't invented (It's in the gameverse). I thought up some two reasons for this.

1. Guns can easily be blocked and destroyed by Pokemon. Most Pokemon have fairly tough skin, otherwise they wouldn't really be able to survive being slashed by a Scyther or something. Something like a Steelix has such tough armour it wouldn't even feel a bullet. If you shot at a Rhydon or something, it would most likely ricochet back and hurt you.

Also, people in the Pokemon world are mostly at peace and didn't develop weapons, giving them more time to develop other things, such as Pokemon reviving things.

2. Pokemon serve as much, much better attackers. A bullet can kill if aimed well but a Psychic Pokemon can just stop someone's heart. Much more effective and it doesn't leave any traces. Pokemon with claws can just slash you open and stuff.

That's also why in the games Team Rocket battles you. They're most likely trying to bash you up with their Pokemon and you defend.

Yeah. that's about it,\.

 

[Negrek]

That's also why in the games Team Rocket battles you. They're most likely trying to bash you up with their Pokemon and you defend.

This is very true, and I think it's entirely plausible that you could envision a pokémon universe where firearms are either nonexistant or extremely rare. However, the problem with a lot of fanfic portrayals of Team Rocket that go this route is that, while it's possible to have pokémon that go way beyond what one could hope to accomplish with conventional weapons, the evil teams in fanfic just don't use them that way.

First of all, there's the pokémon they use. Yeah, you've got things with gigantic blades, beasts with metal-hard skin, and creatures that can, by some interpretations, kill with a thought. And yet these just aren't used by Team Rocket et al. You see the same old parade of zubat, ekans, stunky, and what-have-you, not pokémon that look they want to suck the marrow from your bones. It just doesn't make sense--it's like sending your troops into battle with wooden weapons.

Well, it's not entirely like that, though. Those pokémon can be plenty dangerous--imagine what it would be like to get hit by a zubat's supersonic, or if an ekans slithered up your leg and started trying to strangle you? And that's totally ignoring drowzee, which if in fact could stop your heart with psychic powers, wouldn't even need to get past your own pokémon to do so. And yet, we never see such pokémon being used in that way. Instead, they fight the trainer's pokémon--instead of treating those pokémon primarily as obstacles in the way of their main goal, namely the opposing trainer's jugular. Rocket grunts tend to send out only enough pokémon to match what the protagonist 'n' friends send out, fail to gang up on one person if they don't have enough pokémon or are outmatched, and show no inclination to move in and attack the opposing trainer while their pokémon are tied up by the grunt's. Even when they lose, grunts rarely take the logical course of action of kicking the weakened quilava in the face and then proceeding to beat the ever-living crap out of its stupid trainer and rather choose to run away, despite the fact that they usually have the size, weight, strength, and ruthlessness advantage over their target.

Guns isn't really the main issue, to my mind. It's more that, while there is the potential to create situations so much more dangerous than those that involve merely guns, they aren't taken advantage of in a logical manner. TR battles end up feeling like normal trainer battles, except that the enemy trainer is now wearing a black hat.

 

[Bay]

Heh, I was actually planning to have the evil team in my OT fic (which might or might not be written...^^; ) be more of a threat. For instance, thinking of putting how one of the members killed a trainer with one of his Pokemon.

 

[An-chan]

Maybe Team Rocket don't attack the trainer because that way the trainers think they're safe. Then, when they really try to defy Team Rocket... BANG! Even a lousy grunt can kill them when they think only their Pokémon are being attacked. That would also explain the use of lousy Pokémon. There's only one problem with this explanation: they don't do that. Until the very end, they only have Pokémon battles with trainers trying to crush their evil plans. And what do you know, the plan gets all crushed! I think the grunts are just plain stupid, expacially in the case of Team Galactic. Galactic grunts, after all, are helping to get the world destroyed. Why? Why? Why? After that nonsense, I don't think it's such a suprise they give up after their priced Zubat is out.

I do think it's reasonable to assume there are no guns in the world of Pokémon. If people have always had Pokémon as their companions, then inventing guns would not have crossed their minds even if a war was to break out. Why invent a flamethrower, when your Charizard can do it so conveniently? Why invent chemical weapons when your Gloom can poison the air without further effort?
Although, they do have medical equipment even though you could have a Chansey cure people and Pokémon when they are injured. Then again, maybe that's just because supporting moves are rare compared to offensive and defensive ones. Not many Pokémon can heal even only themselves, but practically every single one of them can smash, burn, crush, poison, cut, slice, freeze, blast, zap, slash, bite, scratch or in some other way hurt others. *shivers* I sure don't want to know what sort of fights wild Pokémon have. After all, they must have some reason to have those moves apart from being convenient and entertaining to humans.

But I don't think people in Pokémon world, be it the gameverse or anything else, are very peaceful. Why would they enjoy watching some creatures fight if they were? Then again, maybe watching Pokémon fight fulfills their need for action...

Oh, and thanks for the link, Negrek! It seems like a fine fic ^-^

 

[txteclipse]

Maybe the pokemon world is some kind of quasi-utopia, like they've enforced a no-guns rule since technology has advanced so much.

Or maybe it's modeled after Japan, where the games originate from? :\

 

[Negrek]

There's only one problem with this explanation: they don't do that. Until the very end, they only have Pokémon battles with trainers trying to crush their evil plans. And what do you know, the plan gets all crushed! I think the grunts are just plain stupid, expacially in the case of Team Galactic. Galactic grunts, after all, are helping to get the world destroyed. Why? Why? Why? After that nonsense, I don't think it's such a suprise they give up after their priced Zubat is out.

This is fanfiction, not the games. What little story the games have is hardly fleshed out and is rarely coherent. If you want to write a 'fic off it, you therefore need to add to and interpret the material already presented. Just saying that "all the grunts must be stupid" doesn't hold much logical water.

I do think it's reasonable to assume there are no guns in the world of Pokémon. If people have always had Pokémon as their companions, then inventing guns would not have crossed their minds even if a war was to break out. Why invent a flamethrower, when your Charizard can do it so conveniently? Why invent chemical weapons when your Gloom can poison the air without further effort?

Possibly so that, when caught without pokémon of their own, they wouldn't be automatic charizard-lunch.

 

[An-chan]

This is fanfiction, not the games.

Very true indeed. But we, as the writers of fanfiction, have to be at least somewhat loyal to the original franchise... That's why I'm trying to think this trough games. Of course, the games are slightly light plot-wise, a bit inadequate when it comes to explaining stuff like why do Pokémon obey and why are ten-year-old kids traving by themselves and all that, but the whole stuff is based off them. Of course I wouldn't go writing about grunts that are just plain stupid, but the thought just crossed my mind so I put it in my post :laugh:

Possibly so that, when caught without pokémon of their own, they wouldn't be automatic charizard-lunch.

Good point. Expecially when not everyone are trainers. So, they have all the reasons they need to invent weaponry. Even if weaponry was prohibited by a law, why would a criminal organization not use something so efficient in killing people as guns? Maybe it's like Dark Lakitu said: guns don't work on Pokémon and hence it is more convenient to use Pokémon. After all, Pokémon can kill both Pokémon and people if they want. That, however, doesn't explain why grunts don't carry guns, you know, just in case.

So, beats me. :laugh:

 

[Negrek]

...but the whole stuff is based off them.

Well, not really. The games are a popular canon, but you also have the anime, various mangas, and even the TCG with slightly different interpretations as well. There's a lot of different things to draw from.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

About guns...how long ago were they invented, weaponry as a whole I mean, in our world? Quite a while ago, I'd say. When people realise something has little use, they get phased out really quickly. Why wouldn't it be the same? Learning about primitive things called "guns" in a History lesson would be very funny indeed.

Also, people wouldn't really have usefulness with guns, even if they were attacked by wild Pokemon. Say, a non-trainer is attacked by a frisky baby Nidoran. Poisonous, yes, so you shouldn't touch, but if you shoot it, it'll probably die because it's pretty weak. Pokemon are supposed to live in groups, so a very angry mother Nidorina/Nidoqueen will most likely attack you in rage after you killed its baby. The latter will at least kill you, and a Nidorina will at least poison you.

So...yeah. I wouldn't really think guns and weapons are that useful at all in a Pokemon world. Yes, it's strange in the game that the Grunts dont' attack you, but it's also possible that they don't want to risk getting bashed up by your Pokemon. :D

 

[Buoysel]

About guns...how long ago were they invented, weaponry as a whole I mean, in our world? Quite a while ago, I'd say. When people realise something has little use, they get phased out really quickly. Why wouldn't it be the same? Learning about primitive things called "guns" in a History lesson would be very funny indeed.

Also, people wouldn't really have usefulness with guns, even if they were attacked by wild Pokemon. Say, a non-trainer is attacked by a frisky baby Nidoran. Poisonous, yes, so you shouldn't touch, but if you shoot it, it'll probably die because it's pretty weak. Pokemon are supposed to live in groups, so a very angry mother Nidorina/Nidoqueen will most likely attack you in rage after you killed its baby. The latter will at least kill you, and a Nidorina will at least poison you.

So...yeah. I wouldn't really think guns and weapons are that useful at all in a Pokemon world. Yes, it's strange in the game that the Grunts dont' attack you, but it's also possible that they don't want to risk getting bashed up by your Pokemon. :D

Guns have been around for hundreds of years.

They still have usefulness, such as hunting, ans self defense.

Image in someone pulled a knife on you demanding your money, if you pulled a gun and pointed it at him, he would probably change his mind about robing you.

In the pokemon world, They probably have outlawed guns, just as they have in Britain and Australia.


"Guns don't kill people... but they sure make it easier." - Paul Giamatti (Shoot 'em Up -2007)

 

[JX Valentine]

About guns...how long ago were they invented, weaponry as a whole I mean, in our world? Quite a while ago, I'd say.

When man learned how to hunt, he invented weapons. So, yes, we had the technology for weapons long before we were civilized by modern terms.

When people realise something has little use, they get phased out really quickly.

Considering the fact that knives most likely still exist in that world, not really.

I think the problem a lot of people are having with the question of whether or not guns exist in the Pokemon world is that a lot of people don't realize that weapons are actually multi-purpose. They're not just for warfare or human-to-human combat. As Buoysel pointed out, they're also for hunting (both in sport and necessity), and they can be for decoration (e.g., Swiss Guards carry swords and poles that are essentially for decoration, not practical combat use.) and self-defense.

Yes, it's true that Pokemon can and -- depending on how far back you think the use of Apricorn Poke Balls go -- have been captured for battle by the ancestors of the Pokemon world. Likewise, Lt. Surge reveals that they've been used in war. However, it's never actually explicitly stated that Pokemon are the only weapons out there. (In the Surge example, he only mentions that his Raichu zapped his enemies into submission. We don't know if he killed them with a gun afterwards. Given the fact that he's an American soldier, I personally think he did.)

That's the other problem a lot of people have. They forget that the canon we see is usually through the eyes of a child (except in Colosseum, where it's through the eyes of a former Pokemon thief anyway). Because of that perspective, the world seems a bit more innocent, and a lot more seems to be centered around Pokemon. While it's obvious that Pokemon is a big part of that world, it's not the only thing there. This probably also explains why we don't (or very rarely) hear about things like government (because I highly doubt that a sports league runs the Pokemon world -- given that this is like saying the MLB runs the US), school for those who opt to stay home instead of start on a journey, occupations that don't have anything to do with Pokemon, and pretty much everything else. It's possible that we don't hear about guns simply because they don't matter to the character we're playing, so they're left out of the storyline.

As for why evil organizations don't seem to carry guns, there's two possibilities here. The first is that you're a flipping ten-year-old armed only with Pokemon. Most likely, they're underestimating you. After all, a lot of them seem smug about your presence until you beat them soundly with your fire-breathing dragon. With no protection except a gun and at most six (not including the character) opponents to face, I wouldn't be surprised if they stood down.

The second possibility is the fact that the evil organizations are fairly weak to begin with. I mean, think about it. An entire organization beaten soundly by a single ten-year-old. How this happens logically, I really don't know. (I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how Team Rocket managed to do that with flipping Goldenrod City two generations ago. Largest city in Johto, and no one except a ten-year-old can free the city?)

But Negrek's already covered this rant.

I'm just saying that it's perfectly possible to create a fan evil organization that actually uses guns. After all, it's the sort of black market underground thing that a truly evil organization would want to invest in. And besides, it's not like guns would be used on Pokemon. Shoot the trainer first before he can send anything out. Boom. Done.

Also, people wouldn't really have usefulness with guns, even if they were attacked by wild Pokemon. Say, a non-trainer is attacked by a frisky baby Nidoran. Poisonous, yes, so you shouldn't touch, but if you shoot it, it'll probably die because it's pretty weak. Pokemon are supposed to live in groups, so a very angry mother Nidorina/Nidoqueen will most likely attack you in rage after you killed its baby.

This is getting into a different sort of logic that a friend of mine brought up concerning the games: why you never see Pokemon above a certain level in a certain area. For example, west of Viridian, you have a patch of grass with weak Nidoran in it. You don't actually see any Nidorina, and you certainly don't see Nidoqueen (which don't seem to exist in the wild). So, by game logic, you could possibly shoot a Nidoran and not risk the anger of a stronger Pokemon, but that depends on how you actually explain this.

Besides, by this logic, a trainer would probably be chased too for battling and capturing that baby Nidoran against the will of the mother.

 

[Buoysel]

Besides, by this logic, a trainer would probably be chased too for battling and capturing that baby Nidoran against the will of the mother.

That's true too, maybe that's what happens you finally manage to catch one pickachu or pichu in D/P, then you have a would bunch of them throwing themselves at you. XD


This also makes a pretty good idea for a Fic: having the trainer chased because of his/her newly aquired Pokemon.

 

[An-chan]

Well, not really. The games are a popular canon, but you also have the anime, various mangas, and even the TCG with slightly different interpretations as well. There's a lot of different things to draw from.

Yeah, well, I only meant that the games came first. You know, the anime is based on the games and so are all the mangas. Maybe loosely, but anyway. Although, now that I think of it, I don't really know whether the TCG or the Game Boy games came first. I've heard that Nintendo started off as a card manufacturer but then again I'm pretty sure that the games came first. It might be that I'm talking crap here... If I am, please correct me!

Anyway, as we are talking about a fictional concept here, I don't think it's a problem to use guns in a fic. Also I don't think there really is any great need to explain why there isn't any guns in a fic. If we limit our imagination because of something that is or isn't in Pokémon anime, manga or card game, we'll all end up writing OT fics with minor variations. In a world where there are Pokémon, anything is plausible :laugh: Just like shippings: every time someone comes up with a new undeniable proof for one shipping, someone can counter it with an equally undenieable proof for some other shipping.

Everyone with their style, I say!

On the topic: I do think it's probable that there are guns in the Pokémon world, be it the gameverse or anything else. For crying out loud, if Marowak and Farfetch'd use weapons, why wouldn't humans? They could have copied the habit of using tools and weapons from Pokémon even when they were still very primitive. I can't think of any argument to support my opinion, not after all Negrek and Xanthine have said, so I'm just going to shut up now. ;)

 

[Shrike Flamestar]

Heh, you wanna know my opinion? It's a kid's franchise and Nintendo isn't going to go about allowing guns to become a major element of it, or even to show up in it at all beyond the bare minimum. Take that game warden episode or whatever with the picture posted earlier of the gun being held to Ash's head; stuff like that never flies in the US (such scenes were also edited out of Digimon Tamers and several other animes, Nintendo did go a bit far with banning the entire episode though...). Having to escape from Team Rocket who are shooting at you in the games, or causing damage throughout the battle to your Pokemon with guns, would cause such an outroar from the general public and soccer moms that Nintendo would likely never live it down.

Me? I heartily endorse the use of guns in Pokemon. One of my evil organizations in TFC use them, a sect of the other organization uses them, two of the main characters use them, the army uses them...

Oh yeah, that's another thing. Many people like to think that armies in the Pokeverse are some sort of collection of trainers ordering their Pokemon about in a huge mass battle or something. But, in such a militaristic scenario, it wouldn't make sense for the humans to just stand around doing nothing but ordering their Pokemon. Why shouldn't they be trying to take out the enemy trainers, or incapacitate the enemy Pokemon at the same time? And obviously, they'll need weapons for that.

People also tend to judge the effectiveness of Pokemon against humans based on real world defenses, however in the Pokeverse the military would likely have armor that is designed to absorb electrical attacks, is fire-proof, or perhaps even has some sort of anti-psychic field. Another option would to have their own psychic Pokemon project barriers around the foot soldiers to help defend from attacks.

And finally there's the whole effectiveness of weapons against Pokemon thing. Starting with just the toughness of some Pokemon, you have to understand the sheer power of some of today's guns. There are pistols such as the Desert Eagle which are specifically designed to be used against large game such as elephants, and never mind .50 caliber rifles which are strong enough to pierce through the tank armor. And that's just with our traditional gun designs using explosive propulsion. The Pokeverse has been widely depicted of having a level of technology above ours, so perhaps the military has guns using electromagnetic propulsion, such as rail or coil guns. Even a coil gun, which is inferior to rail guns, can achieve bullet velocities a lot higher than today's standard weapons. That means further penetration and with specially designed rounds (basically an adaptation of modern armor-piercing rounds), could probably even be used against steel type Pokemon. Pokemon that are actually made of flesh and not rocks or metal would be no problem at all.

Of course the more prominent defense of Pokemon is their special abilities. The only type I see having any chance of standing against bullets using their abilities is psychic, though. While some may like to think that a fire-type could melt the bullet before it reaches them, you have to realize just how little time it would have to react, especially if the military did utilize coil or rail guns with extremely high velocities. The same goes for pretty much every other type, they just wouldn't have the time to react. The only exception is psychic types who typically do have heightened reactions and may very well already have a barrier up that would stop the bullet. I can imagine that that would psychics a priority target in such military conflicts, since they can so easily defend themselves and their allies while also being able to use those same powers to attack.

When it comes down to it, there's really no reason for guns not to exist in the Pokemon universe. Keep in mind that not everyone has their own Pokemon, and having to take care of a Pokemon is a lot harder than maintaining a gun. So if you just want something for self defense, would you rather have a gun which you only need to clean once in a while and keep loaded with ammo, or a Pokemon which you need to train and feed and care for and love and all that stuff?

Whee, I love guns! *Pulls out dual P90s and maniacally fires twin overlapping arcs of destruction as he spreads his arms out to his sides.*

EDIT: Oh yeah, here it is. Some of you may have seen this video before, but here's a picture of a railgun test firing. You see that fire? That's not from any black powder explosion, that's from air friction due to the projectile being launched at seven times the speed of sound. If it could do that to the air, just think what it could do to even the toughest Pokemon.

 

[Buoysel]

It's a kid's

Good point, not us not forget that the amine is target at children.

Another option would to have their own psychic Pokemon project barriers around the foot soldiers to help defend from attacks.

That reminds me of a cretin book that was released not to long ago.

I like guns too. What about bombs, I think that even some of the most powerful dragon types would have trouble with a hand grenade.

 

[JX Valentine]

That reminds me of a cretin book that was released not to long ago.

If you're talking about the book I think you're talking about, then this typo is both hilarious and very appropriate.

Just saying.

 

[Buoysel]

If you're talking about the book I think you're talking about, then this typo is both hilarious and very appropriate.

Just saying.

Apparently I'm retarded, because I don't see it.

 

[JX Valentine]

That reminds me of a cretin book that was released not to long ago.

Cretin: n. - stupid or mentally defective person; an idiot.
Certain (the word you most likely actually mean here): adj. - specific.

(Of course, there's also the to/too thing in this quote, but I'm mostly focused on the cretin/certain confusion.)