Fanfiction Lounge

[Redstar]

Redstar, that blows my mind in so many ways I can't even put them into words. Just know that in my mind I am, as I always have been, screaming and swearing and writhing in metaphorical pain.

Relax. I'm not trying to argue anything here. :3

I don't even know what to say here. It's so absurd. I can understand the qualms about that specific info dump type of prologue but that's not what ANYONE but you is talking about. You just came in and said prologues, without clarification as to what you mean. And BTW, I was writing my post before BnB posted his. My points still stand though.

While my bold topic was more general, my own response to it was fairly specific. I was talking about information-prologues specifically, though anyone was free to talk about any kind of prologue if they so chose, which they did. Clarification wasn't needed because I wasn't trying to specify a particular kind of prologue, though what kind I was personally thinking of should have been rather clear due to my initial response and my later discussion of it with bobandbill and others.

But then, you go and completely miss the point of what I said? What I meant is that every piece of writing in a story has a meaning, and by skipping one piece (the prologue) you lose that meaning and the impact it has on the story. That meaning doesn't have to be an info-dump, I didn't even allude to that. Stop assuming I mean things in a certain way. And if nothing else, skipping over a piece of writing is the height of disrespect to the author who spent their time writing that for people to read, not skip over as if it's some worthless piece of trash.

Yes, every piece of writing in a story has a meaning... But do all writers apply meaning to the nuances in their writing? No, they don't. Some aren't that experienced, while others just don't event try. It would be nice if every writer put that much thought into their work, but sadly not every one does. And the ones that don't are the ones I'm talking about.


I should probably go into some detail as what I feel about prologues so you can have a better understanding of what I mean. Please realize that this is all my opinion and I never meant to narrow my bold topic.

There are four basic kinds of prologues: informational, character, story, and thematic.

Informational is the kind I was talking about for the most part, which is typically bad due to inexperience. An informational prologue does nothing but explains things. No real character, no narrator sometimes, just a plain old textbook. This is weak, boring, and bad writing. If this is the only kind of prologue someone is doing, then all that's in it is better worked into the story.

Character prologues establish a character, usually protagonist. Any real story or information is generally absent, with the real focus on showing a character doing something definitive of what kind of person they are. This is also a possible bad kind of prologue, which can hold information easily worked into the first chapter.

Story prologues usually work with a character to set the stage. Unlike a simple character prologue, something happens, whether you know the implications of it or not. The character could be developed or just a viewpoint-device. These kinds usually have a "x amount of time ago".

And, finally, Theme prologues don't usually have any of the above at all. These kind are usually just dictionaries, encyclopedia entries, or quotes (fictional or real) that establish the kind of world you're about to enter. Also usually an info-dump, but has some distinct character to it.

My point is that using just one of this are usually the signs of a bad writer. A good prologue usually combines aspects of more than one. For example, a good informational prologue would have some real story development often carried by a character to make the world more vibrant. Simply dumping a background summary of the world-at-hand is not good.

Hopefully you understand where I'm coming from now. :)

 

[Bay]

Not trying to argue here, but a couple things I want to point out. They're just my opinions on your points, though.

Story prologues usually work with a character to set the stage. Unlike a simple character prologue, something happens, whether you know the implications of it or not. The character could be developed or just a viewpoint-device. These kinds usually have a "x amount of time ago".

I don't think Story prologue just focuses on what happened on a character. In fact, I think they're more focusing on the events that happened. My fic NE has a prologue that deals with events that happened four years prior. As I mentioned before, those events are what sets the stage for what happened later in the story and also when the characters tried to figure out what happened during that four year gap (which is very important in NE). Doesn't really focus too much on the development of characters until later in the story.

My point is that using just one of this are usually the signs of a bad writer. A good prologue usually combines aspects of more than one. For example, a good informational prologue would have some real story development often carried by a character to make the world more vibrant. Simply dumping a background summary of the world-at-hand is not good.

Hopefully you understand where I'm coming from now. :)

While I agree it's better to have all aspects of a prologue to be put in a story, I don't agree you have to have all of them in it. Depending what you're trying to achieve for your story, perhaps info dump might be a better way to introduce your story. Yes, I said I don't like info dumps that much, but if the execution is done right, then it's worhtwhile.

 

[Redstar]

I don't think Story prologue just focuses on what happened on a character. In fact, I think they're more focusing on the events that happened. My fic NE has a prologue that deals with events that happened four years prior. As I mentioned before, those events are what sets the stage for what happened later in the story and also when the characters tried to figure out what happened during that four year gap (which is very important in NE). Doesn't really focus too much on the development of characters until later in the story.

That's what I said, didn't I? "The character could be developed or just a viewpoint-device." Story prologues don't need to have characters, but they usually do to some degree. But they're not usually much more than a view-point device, and mostly end up dying before the prologue's out or disappearing only to turn up halfway through the actual book.

While I agree it's better to have all aspects of a prologue to be put in a story, I don't agree you have to have all of them in it. Depending what you're trying to achieve for your story, perhaps info dump might be a better way to introduce your story. Yes, I said I don't like info dumps that much, but if the execution is done right, then it's worhtwhile.

Exactly. I'm saying if you're going to do a prologue, it's best to balance two types of them while introducing the information found in the other two throughout the actual story. One type of prologue is too little and makes for a lesson, while three or more ends up just being a straight chapter.

 

[Bay]

That's what I said, didn't I? "The character could be developed or just a viewpoint-device." Story prologues don't need to have characters, but they usually do to some degree. But they're not usually much more than a view-point device, and mostly end up dying before the prologue's out or disappearing only to turn up halfway through the actual book.

I'm not talking about viewpoints. I'm talking about just a story prologue portraying an event in which the viewpoint will most likely be the narrator's (if not talking first person point of view). Then again, maybe I'm repeating what you said here. ^^;

Exactly. I'm saying if you're going to do a prologue, it's best to balance two types of them while introducing the information found in the other two throughout the actual story. One type of prologue is too little and makes for a lesson, while three or more ends up just being a straight chapter.

Er...I actually meant it's all right if to have just one type of prologue if done right. There's no criteria if a prologue is one type or many. It's the execution that seals the deal.

 

[Redstar]

I'm not talking about viewpoints. I'm talking about just a story prologue portraying an event in which the viewpoint will most likely be the narrator's (if not talking first person point of view). Then again, maybe I'm repeating what you said here. ^^;

I don't even know what I said (too tired), but I think we're agreeing here.

Er...I actually meant it's all right if to have just one type of prologue if done right. There's no criteria if a prologue is one type or many. It's the execution that seals the deal.

Well, I can agree to that. I'm not saying that a prologue is always bad if done in any of the ways I said could make it bad, but from my experience they usually are. Basically, my qualms with prologues are the kind you see in the beginning of Eragon and nu-fantasy crap like that. It seems like they only do it because prologues "are fantasy".

Now, if a writer took into consideration all my points above they could easily make any prologue that I say is usually bad good. But writers (and I mean the pulp writers) and the majority of fan-ficcers don't think of the intricacies and just do it bad. There's always a way to subvert things if you know what you're doing. People just usually don't.

 

[Eliminator Jr.]

Do you follow the normal rules of battling when writing a Pokemon battle, or do you hold a no-rules fight that can involve guns and the such?
No, can't say I do. Usually, anything goes, otherwise they're not realistic. For example, it's just stupid to think that a Charmander will forget how to scratch someone because they already know how to do four things and have to free up memory space. It's not like I have to constantly teach myself TM: Play guitar or HM: Take a dump in order to remember things. Also, there's no rule against trainers only carrying six Pokémon, or even having triple battles, or an all out. Of course, the government might be against it but criminals if they wanted could release fifty Pokémon at once providing they all knew what to do.

 

[Miz en Scène]

Wow, Shrike and Redstar almost got into an argument and I wasn't here... >_>
I really should post more...

New bolded topic!(Again)
As some of you know, writing can sometimes get tedious. Therefore;
Have any of you ever used a voice recognition software to write with? Any results? Do you want to use one?
For me, I don't think I trust voice recognition software to do my writing for me. I did play with it once a long time ago and surprisingly, I managed to dig up the result in the deep, dark recesses of my computer.

But What you should be what Turn them from land very strong run very strong Michael Jackson by fax Phil Jackson asing soul help I may not that's Have the held me topped the Setting in and steady know stating will stay home force the is you as and you and the B. C. passed a She should shut to words will fetch deeper for the war number rating will play for I am Michael fax from Simi poll in the back strew Earth will He can keep in part by the Michael Jackson and bristles cranberry song cranberry sauce though no and will be in will The and spending mold spanning will spend that For further warm Us were further warm Dorothy cyclone on an on an aunt and am Paris a cycle coming

As you can see, it's not very good. The only words i managed to get it to recognize accurately were 'Cranberry Sauce' and 'Michael Jackson(RIP)'. Also, I wasn't trying to write anything coherent in the first place...

 

[Feign]

Have any of you ever used a voice recognition software to write with? Any results? Do you want to use one?

I've used one for lulz only... Not serious writing, though if I recall, it did not hear my voice clearly and wrote some other things. I've also played around with Microsoft Sam and replaying what I wrote (man that sounds dirty).

I've encouraged Citty to use it though, for his fic having one less arm for a while, but sadly he does not have a mic. *sends off a mic to NZ* XD

I also made a stride with my fic. I wrote one sentence. Yes one sentence people. XD I would have written more, but whilst getting distracted with playing Devil May Cry 4, the laptop overheated and shut down.

 

[Miz en Scène]

I also made a stride with my fic. I wrote one sentence. Yes one sentence people. XD I would have written more, but whilst getting distracted with playing Devil May Cry 4, the laptop overheated and shut down.

I'm having the same problem. Only I'm playing Spore(on my new (shared)laptop. :D ). I can't seem to put it down and I really need to get my priorities straightened out. XD

 

[txteclipse]

I also made a stride with my fic. I wrote one sentence. Yes one sentence people. XD I would have written more, but whilst getting distracted with playing Devil May Cry 4, the laptop overheated and shut down.

Psh, that's better than me. Well, kinda. I haven't written any fanfiction for a few weeks, but I've done a bit of NaNoWriMo at least.

Who thinks I can write 5000 words today? :D

...Well I sure don't.

 

[Feign]

Lol yeah... *neglects Philosophy assignment*.

Not sure if I will have time this weekend either :S

 

[Misheard Whisper]

GO TXTY GO

I haven't been writing much either. Which is bad, considering I have a deadline to meet!

In other news, though, I passed halfway this morning!

EDIT: Widget in the signature is a few hours behind :/

 

[Bay]

I haven't really written ANYTHING since I posted The Last Rocket. D: You guys are in better shape than me. XD

GO TXTY AND MW, GO! :3

 

[txteclipse]

I am summarily waging war against that word goal. My weapon of choice continues to be Write or Die. Three hours until my next class: I should be able to get a nice chunk done if I concentrate. Expect that little green bar to get longer as the day progresses...

Coincidentally, would anyone care to read as I go? The chapters are inherently unpolished, but it should at least be entertaining in one way or another, whether you like the story or laugh at how crappy my first drafts are.

 

[Giratina ♀]

That's basically a criminal act in my book. Would you skip over a chapter just because you don't like it? That prologue very well may contain information you need to know in order to understand the plot (my own TRINITY comes to mind, and Jax's AEM borders on it while also setting the scene and tone), and skipping it would just leave you confused and ruin the whole story.

Never did I say I would ignore it entirely, and usually a first or second chapter (or maybe, if I'm that sure, halfway through the first) is enough to establish whether it's just so dreadful I can't even read it or is decent enough to read or follow. I'll go back to read the prologue once I'm fairly sure that it's not literary slop, and usually prologues don't tie in directly with first or second chapters - though if it did mention the rest of the story directly I seem to recall learning that prologues are there to set the stage for the rest of the story and shouldn't include events vitally important to the absolute beginning (unless it's a two-shot or something). I do it because I know that I've turned away from potentially good stories by really boring prologues, and since they do usually tend to be background information they're not, in my experience, required to be read first.

I don't often skip prologues entirely, though.

 

[Redstar]

Wow, Shrike and Redstar almost got into an argument and I wasn't here... >_>

Almost. I (try) not to do that anymore. ;)

 

[Miz en Scène]

Almost. I (try) not to do that anymore. ;)

An excellent policy on life and social interactions if I do say so myself.

I haven't really written ANYTHING since I posted The Last Rocket. D: You guys are in better shape than me. XD

GO TXTY AND MW, GO! :3

/Motivation. Go Bay go! Try to get something up before Transformers 3(hopefully by Michael Bay) comes out. XD

 

[patch.]

Seems we're all against prologues here (well, most of us, anyway,) and typically I just wrote one. FML

 

[Misheard Whisper]

Seems we're all against prologues here (well, most of us, anyway,) and typically I just wrote one. FML

You are obsessed with FML.

I love prologues btw.

 

[Miz en Scène]

I love prologues btw.

Prologues are good when executed properly and bad when they're just info-dumps.

About the prologues being info-dumps comment, I just remembered that Isaac Asimov didn't use a prologue. Rather, in Prelude to Foundation, he had literal info-dumps(Encyclopedia Galactica) in between some chapters.