Fanfiction Lounge

[JX Valentine]

Apologies for how long it took me to get back to people here.

Anyway, a couple of things in response to the outsiders coming in:

1. Thanks so much for your input. We actually need you guys to speak up a bit more so it's a bit clearer to the vets that, yeah, something's gotta give.

2. Yeah, I know the posts about this are long. There's a lot to cover, and it's difficult to condense everything into a short little bit. Please don't refer to these posts as "essays," and please don't tl;dr the conversation.

3. Yeah, the original reviewer guide wasn't geared towards newbie reviewers for exactly the reason Breezy pointed out: because it's unlikely newbies would read stickies in the first place. (Hell, they sometimes don't even read PC rules.) Hence, it's more for the people who already started reviewing or writing in the forum, think they're regulars/vets/know better than everyone else, and need a slap in the face and a point towards what they're most likely doing wrong. I'm hoping that the revision will condense all the posts and recategorize everything so, for example, all the stuff aimed towards the reviewers will be in one post that covers everything (with less snark, self-congratulatory attitudes, and repetitiveness) while all the stuff towards the writers will go in a second post. I haven't really thought of creating a bare-bones guide for newbie reviewers for exactly the reason Breezy pointed out again (that newbies might not read stickies), but if people think they're needed, we could give it a shot.

That in mind, an organized post of what needs to be done and addressed. ...'Cause hell if I can keep anything straight myself at the moment.


Ongoing Problems
(Please submit feedback and suggestions for this.)

1. Stickies. People may or may not read them, and a lot of people certainly don't follow them. It's been stated over and over again "people don't read this stuff," but obviously, we need stickies to help run the community. What are ways to get people to read what they're supposed to read?

2. Activity. What are some incentives/reviewing-related challenges that could help encourage members to be active?


Guides/Threads To Be Made

1. Reviewing guide. (Working on this one myself. Don't worry about it.)

2. Reviewing-reviews thread. This is mainly a discussion thread between reviewers to check for reviewing basics. As in, it'll be a place where reviewers can ask things like "Is my review too harsh?" and "If I did it like this, will my review be too confusing?" and "I want to write paragraph-long reviews, but is this kind of review too vague?" and "How do I deal with a hostile writer?" I've thought about Mizan's suggestion of writing a badfic example for us to test ourselves with, and it's an interesting idea so long as it's made absolutely clear that everyone's got a personal style and that it's not necessary for one reviewer to do things like rip a fic apart line by line. (That's why writing communities depend on having multiple reviewers.)

3. Reviewer request thread. Will need an OK from Serebii to either use their thread as a template or say that we were inspired to do something like it and then create a system completely from scratch.

4. Grammar guide. The one we have now only really covers commas, semicolons, homophones, and quotations, so it's basically pretty incomplete. Not to mention there's no table of contents, so it's a bit difficult to find everything. Either we need to complete it, or we simply need a resources thread that includes reliable grammar guides housed elsewhere on the 'net.

5. what is this I don't even. Yeah, uh, I'm not sure what exactly this guide is supposed to be for. The very basics? I mean, it covers how to get started on a fic (which seems a little unnecessary... though we seem to have that question pop up now and then from kids who just want to say they're going to be writing), guides to description, an incomplete list of genres/stereotypes, bits on characterization... It's a bit of a mess, and anyway, it's outdated and/or just headdesk worthy. (A guide to thesaurus abuse? Really, guys? Really?) I'm thinking we get rid of this guide altogether, although there's bits I'm sure we might be able to salvage. Should we have a guide to characterization? One for description, maybe? The genres/story ideas thing can really go into the next thread idea, which is...

6. Plot bunny farm. Breezy suggested it. I like it because it gives people a place to talk about their fic ideas. Let's face it. Everyone likes doing that. We can even throw in a "if you need help coming up with ideas, here's some common genres" bit somewhere in there.

7. New FFL. I'm not sure how much we can split apart the FFL. Breezy's got a point with the bold topics, although it would be nice if we actually did things the way we used to and actually commented on each other's responses. Meanwhile, the randomness can go to VMs or a usergroup (the latter of which anyone can volunteer to create), and I guess she was saying the in-depth discussions could go to separate threads? For example, "I need to know this for research purposes; does anyone have an answer" kind of threads and "does this character sound interesting" kinds of threads and whatever else that would require more than a few posts of discussion. We don't even necessarily have to make those ones stickies, either, because that's kinda what the Writer's Lounge is for in the first place.

Long story short, FFL = for bold topics AND DISCUSSIONS ABOUT YOUR ANSWERS/shorter conversations about writing (without repeating bold topics – link to solvino's thread, perhaps, or a completely new index attached to the first post of the thread?); other threads in WL = for in-depth conversations about writing-related stuff. Y/N?


Okay, so those are the ideas so far (unless I missed one on my skim-through). Break them down, discuss them, and add to them/suggest away to shape them up. Once we've got finished concepts, I'll post a new list in about a week full of jobs people can snap up and deadlines for when I expect all of you to be done with your tasks. And if you guys haven't figured things out in one full week from today, I'm leaving angry ninja kittens in the beds of anyone who lets the discussion die. Sound good?


Other Things To Work On

1. Emblems. Giratina and Buoysel, you both volunteered. We need one for being an active, helpful reviewer at the very least. (If we ever manage to come up with challenges for reviewing, I'll add that to your cart.) Since it's a 100 x 100 icon, it shouldn't be too difficult to manage, so how about a week from today to find a suitable image and make it? Figure out which one of you is doing it and submit your work to Asty to get it uploaded and ready.

Also, should we have something special for anyone who writes a guide/submits an idea we actually use in this little revitalization project of ours?

 

[Esper]

Hello. Outsider here. Have lurked this thread a couple of times. Just want to put in my two cents on your makeover plans.

The game development areas of PC have all the new hacks start in one board and when they've developed enough get bumped to a showcase board. Could something similar be done here? I know its apples and oranges and I can see the immediate disadvantages of having an area for "good" writers and "bad" writers, but it would give new writers something to strive for. It could encourage writers to get better.

FYI, I don't spend a lot of time in the game development boards so I'm not entirely sure how something moves from the beginner's board to the established game-maker's board, but I assume there is some kind of final decision made by a mod. It sounds heavy-handed, but it seems to work for them.

 

[JX Valentine]

The game development areas of PC have all the new hacks start in one board and when they've developed enough get bumped to a showcase board. Could something similar be done here? I know its apples and oranges and I can see the immediate disadvantages of having an area for "good" writers and "bad" writers, but it would give new writers something to strive for. It could encourage writers to get better.

We actually used to have something like this (which is still around but never used anymore), but we phased out the usage of it because it just didn't really work that well for a fanfic community. The reason why is because the entire main forum is for the development of a fic.

*shrug* My personal opinion -- which might not reflect what Astinus says about it -- is that the entire good/bad area of fanfiction is a bit fuzzy. Sure, you might rape grammar, but you might also have a really cool plot. Likewise, you might have perfect grammar, but your plot might suck warm sick through a short straw. So, just having all fics in one place make it easier, in part so Asty doesn't have to move stuff she thinks is ready to be put into a showcase, in part to avoid making a handful of us sound elitist, and in part so everyone can help each other refine whatever it is the story's lacking.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[Breezy]

Meanwhile, the randomness can go to VMs or a usergroup (the latter of which anyone can volunteer to create), and I guess she was saying the in-depth discussions could go to separate threads? For example, "I need to know this for research purposes; does anyone have an answer" kind of threads and "does this character sound interesting" kinds of threads and whatever else that would require more than a few posts of discussion.

The "separate threads" idea was so people would centralize around one idea, avoiding that "one answer, move on" thing that happened in FFL. If the bold topic question-answers actually went through a back and forth discussion, then you wouldn't need to make separate threads for certain topics. It would also drastically slow down the bursts of topic changes that I noticed the last time I visited here. I'm not saying you have to stay on one topic for one week--hell, one day, even--but it would give someone who had not visited in a few hours some more breathing room and less topics to respond to.

I don't know. My main concern with the FFL with how fast it went through writing topics and quickly went to off-topic things, which really overwhelmed me. It is why I also suggested creating new stickies, like a plot bunny farm, so everything isn't grouped together in one lump and would make new people who are afraid of joining FFL a place to let their voice be heard by the veterans who would (hopefully) read those stickies.

1. Stickies. People may or may not read them, and a lot of people certainly don't follow them. It's been stated over and over again "people don't read this stuff," but obviously, we need stickies to help run the community. What are ways to get people to read what they're supposed to read?

Veteran interest. Having someone experienced take interest in a new writer's story, help the new author and shamelessly plug those stickies really does encourage a new writer to look at other sources to improve his/herself. It also helps if the experienced reviewer/writer knows the sticky well so he/she can apply what is in that thread in their response. If someone told me "All this information is in this sticky here" and left it at that, I probably wouldn't be too interested in reading in it.

Like a sampler, I guess.

You could try bribery, too. Or threats.

2. Activity. What are some incentives/reviewing-related challenges that could help encourage members to be active?

I'm not sure about this community, but most communities get excited for fic competitions. I know you guys had something like this (7k challenge, right?) How did that go? Was it the same people in FFL participating, or did new members/outsiders try? The problem with these contests is whether or not you have volunteers willing to read a good amount of fic.

SPPf had a "dozen review" challenge where each participants had to submit twelve reviews to any story of their choosing on a certain date. This was mostly created for authors who received little to no reviews, though.

 

[Shrike Flamestar]

Yeah, we've had some competitions here. The most prominent in recent memory were the 7 Day 7k challenge (write 7000 words in one week, inspired by NaNoWriMo) and the Small Writing Contest we had for the PC anniversary event last year. SWC had a fairly decent turn out and did have prizes in the form of emblems (you can check mine to see :D). 7d7k, however, didn't have that great an interest in it past the first couple of rounds which led to its death. It also did not have any rewards or even ranking, it was solely a challenge to see if you could do it. While that's far too little data to form a conclusion from, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that more people are interested in competitions where the results are actually judged and rewarded. Also, 7k words in one week isn't easy while I don't believe the SWC had any minimum length requirement, its the main pressure being the three day time limit which was more inviting for newbies who typically write too fast anyway (I remember when I was pumping out chapters every other day).

Then there were also the forum games such as the Exquisite Corpse where people signed up, an order was determined randomly, and each person wrote one page (with the exception of the last person who could write as much as needed for a "proper" conclusion) with their sole knowledge of the previous page being its final sentence. Pretty fun and completely random. Again though, it was just for fun with no incentives to play.

And yes, for both 7d7k and the Corpse it was by large mostly the lounge regulars (or people who weren't regulars then but can be considered regulars now) who joined. One reason for this besides the before mentioned lack of incentives is probably that they were only posted in the Writer's Lounge subforum and not the main forum. By contrast, the SWC was posted along with all the games for the anniversary event in its own special forum broadening its exposure.

Finally, there was probably a snowball effect going on with games such as the corpse, where newbies saw all the regulars joining in and were too shy or such to try it out themselves. The more regulars and veterans joined, the less inclined newbies were to potentially embarrass themselves.

I'd love to see such contests and games return as I loved them and both 7d7k and SWC spawned one/two shots of mine that are arguably more popular than my main chaptered fics. They're not just a fine pastime; they're also good for practice, popularity, and ego boosting! :D

If we do repeat them, I suggest that they be posted about as a sticky in the main forum so more people can see it, as well as small prizes like emblems being handed out for them. Like with the 7d7k, maybe give people who have managed to do it an emblem saying they did. A sort of "I survived the 7 Day 7k challenge!" thing. Writing contests like the SWC would also be good to have once in a while however not too often. Again, hand out reward emblems to everyone who participates and not just the winners. More incentives will just mean more people participating!

So I think we've talked about all this long enough, any plans to actually get started on this renewal anytime soon?

 

[Miz en Scène]

1. Stickies. People may or may not read them, and a lot of people certainly don't follow them. It's been stated over and over again "people don't read this stuff," but obviously, we need stickies to help run the community. What are ways to get people to read what they're supposed to read?

That's a problem every forum gets --I think(not reading stickied rules I mean), and there's really no soft solution(as of yet; maybe you guys can come up with one?) that I can think of at the moment. However, there is one method, which I feel is a tad extreme, in which infractions are handed out per-offense from not reading or trying to understand the rules set forth in the stickies. While I'm unsure on the feasibility on this plan, the basic outline is:

1. Set a PC Announcement thing exclusive to the F&W section that warns new members to read the rules before posting lest suffer a 2 point 2 week infraction.
2. Clarify PC rules on fic responses(i.e. clearly differentiate in between a critical response and a one-liner / clearly differentiate in between blatantly not using a spell-check and harmless typos)
3. Hand out infractions to posts in the F&W section that have obviously originated from not reading the rules.

Yeah, basically a threat actually… Though, this only works for the 'rules thread' because people who post short, but critical reviews that are wrongly done (as a result from not reading the Reviewers Guide) can't really be punished for negligence because how badly is done is really subjective. Though if it's obvious that it's Spam then said infraction can take place.

For reading reviewing threads, maybe PM's can be sent to the posters of wrongly written reviewers to read the guides before posting reviews again.

2. Activity. What are some incentives/reviewing-related challenges that could help encourage members to be active?

This is an idea that came to me while I was writing, but what if a commendation thread could be made in the main forum in which the most avid reviewers are showcased and statistics are updated per month? To clarify, the thread would list down the authors who have at least done three reviews per month since the inception of the 'Wall of Reviewers' and rank them in accordance with RpM (Reviews per Month). As an added incentive, besides having your name displayed in an obviously extravagant fashion, the reviewers who manage to maintain a 10 RpM average for three months can be awarded with a ranked reviewers emblem. By ranked I mean, that having a 10 RpM average for three months may qualify said member for a Bronze Reviewers emblem; six months may qualify said member for a Silver Emblem; one year for a Gold emblem; and a Platinum/Crystal Emblem as viewed by Moderator discretion. The Platinum one may be awarded due to review qualities being of a high quality and not just a five line critical review outlining basic grammar mistakes and or simple things that may have been missed. This also means that if Astinus feels that your past seven or so reviews have been amazing, regardless of whether or not you have a bronze, silver or gold emblem, you qualify for a platinum. Obviously, this would make the three lower ones look cheap in comparison, but hey, at least they're emblems. (Uncertain element: Should emblems of previous rank be removed once you qualify for the next rank? Should Platinum ones be awarded without the removal of the three ranks? --As in, can you have a silver and platinum emblem simultaneously)

Also, to make it easier, we could post in that thread, or another thread in the Writer's Lounge, reporting on what reviews we've done and links to said reviews so that the list can be updated easily. To further simplify the process, you must request for the ranked emblems(not the Platinum emblem) so that Astinus doesn't have a hard time scouting out potential receivers. Kind of like a Review Announcement Thread...
Edit: To make it easier on those that have done plenty of reviews before this, reviews posted for consideration in the thread should be calculated from the first review that the member wants to show to the current. This means that if A posted a link in the announcement thread saying that he did a review in Sep '08, his RpM should be calculated from Sep '08 onwards. Likewise, if B posts a link in the thread Apr '10, his RpM should be calculated from that point and his reviews before that disregarded to avoid complications.

Undoubtedly, it's going to take a hell of a lot of work...

2. Reviewing-reviews thread. This is mainly a discussion thread between reviewers to check for reviewing basics. As in, it'll be a place where reviewers can ask things like "Is my review too harsh?" and "If I did it like this, will my review be too confusing?" and "I want to write paragraph-long reviews, but is this kind of review too vague?" and "How do I deal with a hostile writer?" I've thought about Mizan's suggestion of writing a badfic example for us to test ourselves with, and it's an interesting idea so long as it's made absolutely clear that everyone's got a personal style and that it's not necessary for one reviewer to do things like rip a fic apart line by line. (That's why writing communities depend on having multiple reviewers.)

I'd be willing to do the badfic examples, but obviously I can't cover all the common grammar mistakes a writer might make (eg Lays vs. Lies and To vs. Too). Maybe we can each submit a badfic and an answer key which we can then compile alongside the resources for writers section?

6. Plot bunny farm. Breezy suggested it. I like it because it gives people a place to talk about their fic ideas. Let's face it. Everyone likes doing that. We can even throw in a "if you need help coming up with ideas, here's some common genres" bit somewhere in there.

This idea, I'm not so keen on because of the procrastinatory and selfish nature of some people, members don't always like discussing plot bunnies because they feel that they can put it off and maybe do it sometime later. Some people are also reluctant to share dead-end ideas because they feel that they might be able to expand on it more. Anyway, this is only my hypothesis and to truly understand what went wrong with the previous farm, a thorough study needs to be undertaken.

Also, should we have something special for anyone who writes a guide/submits an idea we actually use in this little revitalization project of ours?

Wall of Fame or Plaque displayed in some relevant thread to display the members who took part in the F&W Revitalization project. A graphics Placque (done properly) since this is really a one-time large-scale effort to create the framework of the F&W which we might use for years to come… My two-cents…

 

[Bay]

1. Stickies. People may or may not read them, and a lot of people certainly don't follow them. It's been stated over and over again "people don't read this stuff," but obviously, we need stickies to help run the community. What are ways to get people to read what they're supposed to read?

An eye-catching title. D: Seriously, people tend to go to threads with great titles (if fanfic) or random (like the Other Voting Polls section). Other than that, can't think of anything at the moment. >.>

2. Activity. What are some incentives/reviewing-related challenges that could help encourage members to be active?

Hm, like Shrike, we should do one shot contests, like the SWC thing last year. Maybe a few new writers might want to try at a few of them?

2. Reviewing-reviews thread. This is mainly a discussion thread between reviewers to check for reviewing basics. As in, it'll be a place where reviewers can ask things like "Is my review too harsh?" and "If I did it like this, will my review be too confusing?" and "I want to write paragraph-long reviews, but is this kind of review too vague?" and "How do I deal with a hostile writer?" I've thought about Mizan's suggestion of writing a badfic example for us to test ourselves with, and it's an interesting idea so long as it's made absolutely clear that everyone's got a personal style and that it's not necessary for one reviewer to do things like rip a fic apart line by line. (That's why writing communities depend on having multiple reviewers.)

Sounds good to me.

3. Reviewer request thread. Will need an OK from Serebii to either use their thread as a template or say that we were inspired to do something like it and then create a system completely from scratch.

Sounds good too. After you get the okay, would you need help making the reviewer request thread? I can help you with that.

4. Grammar guide. The one we have now only really covers commas, semicolons, homophones, and quotations, so it's basically pretty incomplete. Not to mention there's no table of contents, so it's a bit difficult to find everything. Either we need to complete it, or we simply need a resources thread that includes reliable grammar guides housed elsewhere on the 'net.

We can complete it and then we can also put some resources if they want more info on a particular part in the grammar guide. Maybe talk about tenses and awkward sentences, or is that too advanced?

5. what is this I don't even. Yeah, uh, I'm not sure what exactly this guide is supposed to be for. The very basics? I mean, it covers how to get started on a fic (which seems a little unnecessary... though we seem to have that question pop up now and then from kids who just want to say they're going to be writing), guides to description, an incomplete list of genres/stereotypes, bits on characterization... It's a bit of a mess, and anyway, it's outdated and/or just headdesk worthy. (A guide to thesaurus abuse? Really, guys? Really?) I'm thinking we get rid of this guide altogether, although there's bits I'm sure we might be able to salvage. Should we have a guide to characterization? One for description, maybe? The genres/story ideas thing can really go into the next thread idea, which is...

Description yes because it would be something for the new writers to look at if they have trouble with writing description. Guide on characterization...that's going to be a harder thing to pull. I don't know, but too me it's better if the reviewer just explains if the character is developed enough and such.

6. Plot bunny farm. Breezy suggested it. I like it because it gives people a place to talk about their fic ideas. Let's face it. Everyone likes doing that. We can even throw in a "if you need help coming up with ideas, here's some common genres" bit somewhere in there.

Didn't we do a plot bunny farm before but it failed? I guess we can do a redux version or something.

7. New FFL. I'm not sure how much we can split apart the FFL. Breezy's got a point with the bold topics, although it would be nice if we actually did things the way we used to and actually commented on each other's responses. Meanwhile, the randomness can go to VMs or a usergroup (the latter of which anyone can volunteer to create), and I guess she was saying the in-depth discussions could go to separate threads? For example, "I need to know this for research purposes; does anyone have an answer" kind of threads and "does this character sound interesting" kinds of threads and whatever else that would require more than a few posts of discussion. We don't even necessarily have to make those ones stickies, either, because that's kinda what the Writer's Lounge is for in the first place.

Long story short, FFL = for bold topics AND DISCUSSIONS ABOUT YOUR ANSWERS/shorter conversations about writing (without repeating bold topics – link to solvino's thread, perhaps, or a completely new index attached to the first post of the thread?); other threads in WL = for in-depth conversations about writing-related stuff. Y/N?

Hm, not so sure having two lounges. Maybe just have a redux version of the FFL, but a few rules like the DDC. So yeah, new FFL with bold topics, discussions about the answers, and more in-depth conversations about writing related stuff.

]Also, should we have something special for anyone who writes a guide/submits an idea we actually use in this little revitalization project of ours?

I like that idea. Motivation, you know? :P But in all seriousness though, doing this for the community is enough satisfaction for me. :3

That's a problem every forum gets --I think(not reading stickied rules I mean), and there's really no soft solution(as of yet; maybe you guys can come up with one?) that I can think of at the moment. However, there is one method, which I feel is a tad extreme, in which infractions are handed out per-offense from not reading or trying to understand the rules set forth in the stickies. While I'm unsure on the feasibility on this plan, the basic outline is:

1. Set a PC Announcement thing exclusive to the F&W section that warns new members to read the rules before posting lest suffer a 2 point 2 week infraction.
2. Clarify PC rules on fic responses(i.e. clearly differentiate in between a critical response and a one-liner / clearly differentiate in between blatantly not using a spell-check and harmless typos)
3. Hand out infractions to posts in the F&W section that have obviously originated from not reading the rules.

Yeah, basically a threat actually… Though, this only works for the 'rules thread' because people who post short, but critical reviews that are wrongly done (as a result from not reading the Reviewers Guide) can't really be punished for negligence because how badly is done is really subjective. Though if it's obvious that it's Spam then said infraction can take place.

For reading reviewing threads, maybe PM's can be sent to the posters of wrongly written reviewers to read the guides before posting reviews again.

I don't think threats would be a good idea. If anything, that'll make them want to review even less.

This is an idea that came to me while I was writing, but what if a commendation thread could be made in the main forum in which the most avid reviewers are showcased and statistics are updated per month? To clarify, the thread would list down the authors who have at least done three reviews per month since the inception of the 'Wall of Reviewers' and rank them in accordance with RpM (Reviews per Month). As an added incentive, besides having your name displayed in an obviously extravagant fashion, the reviewers who manage to maintain a 10 RpM average for three months can be awarded with a ranked reviewers emblem. By ranked I mean, that having a 10 RpM average for three months may qualify said member for a Bronze Reviewers emblem; six months may qualify said member for a Silver Emblem; one year for a Gold emblem; and a Platinum/Crystal Emblem as viewed by Moderator discretion. The Platinum one may be awarded due to review qualities being of a high quality and not just a five line critical review outlining basic grammar mistakes and or simple things that may have been missed. This also means that if Astinus feels that your past seven or so reviews have been amazing, regardless of whether or not you have a bronze, silver or gold emblem, you qualify for a platinum. Obviously, this would make the three lower ones look cheap in comparison, but hey, at least they're emblems. (Uncertain element: Should emblems of previous rank be removed once you qualify for the next rank? Should Platinum ones be awarded without the removal of the three ranks? --As in, can you have a silver and platinum emblem simultaneously)

Also, to make it easier, we could post in that thread, or another thread in the Writer's Lounge, reporting on what reviews we've done and links to said reviews so that the list can be updated easily. To further simplify the process, you must request for the ranked emblems(not the Platinum emblem) so that Astinus doesn't have a hard time scouting out potential receivers. Kind of like a Review Announcement Thread...
Edit: To make it easier on those that have done plenty of reviews before this, reviews posted for consideration in the thread should be calculated from the first review that the member wants to show to the current. This means that if A posted a link in the announcement thread saying that he did a review in Sep '08, his RpM should be calculated from Sep '08 onwards. Likewise, if B posts a link in the thread Apr '10, his RpM should be calculated from that point and his reviews before that disregarded to avoid complications.

Undoubtedly, it's going to take a hell of a lot of work...

Yeah, would be a lot of work and time to get this done. You would have to keep track of every member that did the reviews and such.

 

[Miz en Scène]

I don't think threats would be a good idea. If anything, that'll make them want to review even less.

Like I said, it was just a suggestion and I knew it was a bit hard. Eye-catching titles don't always work because during that period of time when Astinus changed the rule thread title each week or so there were still rules being broken anyway...

Yeah, would be a lot of work and time to get this done. You would have to keep track of every member that did the reviews and such.

They'd post in a Review Announcement thread to say that they've done a review. It's still a lot of work, but it's less work than having to click on every single thread to note down who's done reviews. With the thread, we know who's done reviews and can check them with the links they provide.

Not relevant, but why are there Slowpokes everywhere? And why on the 3rd of April?

 

[Astinus]

Mizan already said what I needed to about catchy thread titles. Way back when, in an attempt to get people to read the rules, I changed the thread's title to various different things to try and catch people's attention. Guess the really idiotic ways that my coworkers try to fight off infections (with steak sauce, if you can habeeb it) didn't work.

Right now, the thread's title is just an acronym from another fandom. I like it because it's rather on the rude side.

2. Activity. What are some incentives/reviewing-related challenges that could help encourage members to be active?

I've actually gotten quite a few requests to bring back that prompt challenge we had two years ago. Unfortunately, the only prompts I currently have all involve m/m slash in some way, so other prompts might be needed. If there's some sort of reward involved, like an emblem, then even more interest might be gained. It's kind of like Poem of the Week [2], which Bay can explain more if needed because she participated. (Unlike the mod, who approved it and then unfortunately never looked back. College poetry class kind of ruined my enjoyment of poetry. Inconspicuous is not a verb!) With POTW, an emblem was handed out to the winner of each week.

If that's cool, then we're going to need more emblems made. Go, my little artists! Go!

Didn't we do a plot bunny farm before but it failed? I guess we can do a redux version or something.

We had the Plot Bunny Farm (where plunnies go to die) a while back. I don't know if there were any others. But the Plot Bunny Farm kind of flopped because I'll assume that people weren't too willing to pick up other people's plot ideas. (Hint hint to someone out there.) Which is a shame, because there was a chance to write femslash and m/m slash posted to that thread.

But I think a thread for plot ideas like the one SPPf has would work better. That way, anyone can post any idea that they have to get comments on it to see if it will actually work/get interest. Instead of a thread where people might leave their fics/ideas down for other people to write.

I'd be willing to do the badfic examples, but obviously I can't cover all the common grammar mistakes a writer might make (eg Lays vs. Lies and To vs. Too).

I could easily do it. Someone almost received a VM where I messed up your/you're, too/to, and several other common mistakes if I didn't proof-read. It'll be rather easy for me.

Plus I tend to break older grammar conventions, like the whole "don't start a sentence with a conjunction", or switching between British and American standards. I could break minds.

Everything else I can't really comment on (yet) because it's five in the morning, and I can't read.

Not relevant, but why are there Slowpokes everywhere? And why on the 3rd of April?

April Fools' Day, where people play tricks/pranks on one another on April 1st. It's done today on PC for various reasons, namely because Slowpoke are sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

Also, you may now enjoy a link to one of my favorite Super Effective strips.

 

[Bay]

Mizan already said what I needed to about catchy thread titles. Way back when, in an attempt to get people to read the rules, I changed the thread's title to various different things to try and catch people's attention. Guess the really idiotic ways that my coworkers try to fight off infections (with steak sauce, if you can habeeb it) didn't work.

Right now, the thread's title is just an acronym from another fandom. I like it because it's rather on the rude side.

Okay, gotcha. Hm, I still can't think of anything that would make the new people read the rules/stickies. XD I'm working on it, though!

I've actually gotten quite a few requests to bring back that prompt challenge we had two years ago. Unfortunately, the only prompts I currently have all involve m/m slash in some way, so other prompts might be needed. If there's some sort of reward involved, like an emblem, then even more interest might be gained. It's kind of like Poem of the Week [2], which Bay can explain more if needed because she participated. (Unlike the mod, who approved it and then unfortunately never looked back. College poetry class kind of ruined my enjoyment of poetry. Inconspicuous is not a verb!) With POTW, an emblem was handed out to the winner of each week.

If that's cool, then we're going to need more emblems made. Go, my little artists! Go!

Oh great, would I have to explain how I won PotW with an angst love poem too? XD; In all seriousness though, yeah I can explain real quick to everyone here. Basically there's a prompt, for example "rain." After that, a few people make a poem base off that prompt. Later a couple judges will look over the poems and see which one is best.

But yeah, is anyone here up for a prompt challenge too? Only difference between the prompt challenge and the PotW is the prompt challenges won't have the judges. And Astinus if you want, I can take over the prompt challenge if you want. I can think of a few that are not m/m slash. XD

We had the Plot Bunny Farm (where plunnies go to die) a while back. I don't know if there were any others. But the Plot Bunny Farm kind of flopped because I'll assume that people weren't too willing to pick up other people's plot ideas. (Hint hint to someone out there.) Which is a shame, because there was a chance to write femslash and m/m slash posted to that thread.

But I think a thread for plot ideas like the one SPPf has would work better. That way, anyone can post any idea that they have to get comments on it to see if it will actually work/get interest. Instead of a thread where people might leave their fics/ideas down for other people to write.

Yeah, I think it would be a better idea if the thread for plot ideas works that way. I know I wouldn't be able to write something based on someone else's idea due to me afraid I'll mess it up.

 

[txteclipse]

Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge.

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?)

C) Do one-shot challenges.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster?

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?).

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it.

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else.

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey.

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work.

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D

 

[Astinus]

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster?

That would unfortunately require the rest of the forum to care what happens in this section. It would be nice, but we're really our own separate entity unto ourselves here.

There was more I could say, but I'm half asleep and wanting to go play old Nintendo games. So it's going to have to wait one more day for me to be useful.

 

[bobandbill]

Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. I say yes to this

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) Mabye not like candy, but it's an idea.

C) Do one-shot challenges. Yeah

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? I'm think this wouldn't be very successful. Personally maybe we could have a subsection for completed fics? Yes sppf has it first but I don't see why not

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. Maybe combine with an emblem - if Astinus seeing mods give out emblems sees someone who reviews well, they get a shiny emblem? Maybe we already have this in fact but if so, bring it about into force.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). Book it? Explain please. =P But maybe a review thingy would be good...once there's enough interest.

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. IDK how successful this'd be - there's no real one best way to critique I feel, and I'm a bit doubtful on how well it'd work. =/ The review guide thingy does a better job IMO.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. Yes

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. Yes

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. YES

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers. YES

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. TBH this sounds kinda like the Beta Thread, just more of an extension of it and personally betas kinda should be doing that in cases anyways...constantly giving feedback on work, etc if time allows/the writer needs it

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. Could be part of a new Fanfic guide thread?

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. Yeah... maybe combine with the above though? I suppose we all could have a discussion thread on making such a thread actually, and compine stuff like the Grammer thread with it (and separate parts into different posts for easier-reading sake).

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D Interesting, although the rule-breakers tend to not read the rules anyways so idk...

Random thoughts in bold here. Bacause I'm lazy. =P

 

[Astinus]

Oh, bobandbill, you're an Aussie, so of course you don't know what Book It! is.

Of course, I'm American, and I had no idea. Then again, I don't eat pizza.

Book It!, a program created by Pizza Hut (Their pizzas make me terribly terribly ill) to get children to read. Basically, a goal is set per month for a child, and if the child reads that much each month, a manager of their local Hut gives them a free kid-sized pizza (this is making me sick), a Book It! card, and a backpack kit.

That can't happen here, but there are similarities. If someone reads and reviews a certain amount of fics per month, then they get a shiny emblem. Because we just love our extrinsic rewards here.

 

[bobandbill]

Oh, I see. Cheers for the explanation then. =)

I suppose that could work...although a check on the reviews themselves (because if anything weak one-liners reviews hinder rather than help the community as a whole at times) would probably be needed if done.

 

[Astinus]

That's one reason why I would like quality to be put ahead of competitions. Because it's not too helpful to have a lot of one-liner reviews that can be quickly c/p'd to various thread in the section. But if there's a certain standard of quality, then things can look better.

Right now, I'm really bugged about reviews seen on another forum, but that's gonna be something I'll have to discuss at another time. We're still in the planning stages.

Hopefully soon we'll be getting somewhere with this.

Edit: I'm sure if I'm a PITA enough about it, I can fix up the subforums of this section. Getting a Completed Fics forum and whatever else y'all desire.

 

[Giratina ♀]

I think that completed fics should be placed in a "Completed" subforum and stickied, but not locked like Serebii does; after all, what if you realize they were moved before you could get in a comment on the climax or the end of the story? Sorry, I know the comment is terribly short, but I don't have anything else to say on the matter except that I have an unpleasantly vague idea on what you could put on an achievement for reviewing stuff... a keyboard and pen?

 

[Miz en Scène]

I'mma use bobandbill's format and then go back to lurking DeviantArt...

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. Yes, but make it monthly rather than weekly or yearly.

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) The way I see it, there are lots of artists in the fanfiction section so let's see if we can handle this as an interior issue before seeking help from outsiders. I sound like the government...

C) Do one-shot challenges. Yes, but integrate with 'A'.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? No for reason stated in 'B'. Unless of course, all the vets or frequent FFL-ers would agree to advertise said fic in their sig for a month...

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. Yes, and working on it with that 3 stage emblem plan of mine. I'm trying to make it seem like less work...

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). Don't know it, but Asty explained. Thanks. XD

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. Uhhh... not sure...

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. Yes

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. MaybeYes, but not too strict. Only allow for minimal deviation from topic and not all out DCC styled conversation on Anime and random other things unless relevant to fanfiction.

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. Yes

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. Like bobandbill said, it's like an extension to the beta thread...

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. Can be integrated with the uploading tutorials or review worksheet thing.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. Problem is that no one reads stickies.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D Same problem as 5B.

Edit: I'm sure if I'm a PITA enough about it, I can fix up the subforums of this section. Getting a Completed Fics forum and whatever else y'all desire.

While we're at it, is it possible to remove the revision bin since we don't use it? Or maybe rename it to become the completed fics section, but don't lock completed fics.

I think that completed fics should be placed in a "Completed" subforum and stickied, but not locked like Serebii does; after all, what if you realize they were moved before you could get in a comment on the climax or the end of the story? Sorry, I know the comment is terribly short, but I don't have anything else to say on the matter except that I have an unpleasantly vague idea on what you could put on an achievement for reviewing stuff... a keyboard and pen?

Agreed.

 

[Bay]

This way is much easier. XD; And sorry for late reply, had to take care of some things. >.>

Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. -Yes!

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) Sounds like a good idea too. Hm, did we establish what kind of emblems we'll be giving out? I think we're still talking about a reviewing emblem...O.o

C) Do one-shot challenges. -We should do this too.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? -Not so sure. Most likely that fic will overshadow the other fics. Remember, we're trying to have people read more of the fics here, not just a few.

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. -Yes, and yeah also agreement on emblems maybe one of the incentives.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). - Hm, I think we explained before how a couple "challenges" for reviewing didn't worked out or won't work out? Otherwise, to me it seems more people are excited to write than review, so one shot challenges/contests bring in more people than review ones. So long story short, not so sure.

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. -I like this idea, but perhaps have a disclaimer in that there is no right way of reviewing but that this thread is for if you feel you want to fintune it or something.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. -Yes.

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. -Of course! :P

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. - *nods* Of course. :3

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. -Like the others said, pretty much an extension of the beta thread.

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. -Not so sure on that. Pretty much everyone's perspective on badfic is different, IMO.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. -I'm going with bobandbill's idea in that we have a discussion thread that we can talk more about this.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D -Not so sure about that. You would have to keep track of every new fic posted. Then again, I suck at tracking stuff and I'm a finance person D: .

 

[Astinus]

I'm so busted if I get caught on here during work.

Hm, I think we explained before how a couple "challenges" for reviewing didn't worked out or won't work out? Otherwise, to me it seems more people are excited to write than review, so one shot challenges/contests bring in more people than review ones. So long story short, not so sure.

There was an official "you review me, I'll review you" thread, where the person who posts asking for a review has to review the people who posted before them. One reason I think that failed was because a writer might not be willing to review other people, or the pile of people wanting reviews gets to be so long that it's kind of tedious.

Then there was the recent "Hey, let's just review with no stipulations!" thread from last month. That failed for some reason that I can't fathom, or just completely refuse to fathom.

I dunno. Maybe we should focus more on getting stories to review, and then working on getting the quality of reviews up before we decide we need more reviews? Because I bag people more on lesser quality reviews than the quality of a story posted.

Kind of a short response because lol work.