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Fire Emblem Fates Discussion

Arc

Arc

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    Doing another Conquest Lunatic run again. A couple of musings. Inherent spoilers below, especially regarding a certain trio.

    Spoiler:


    Oh, Revelations is out tomorrow. Or rather, today. Hope you guys have fun with it. It's not a particularly outstanding, but I'm sure people are aching to have questions answered and having a "large" cast to play around with.
     
    Judge Mandolore Shepard

    Judge Mandolore Shepard

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    When it comes to the DLC for Fire Emblem Fates, I think the Museum Melee is the only time is where I have seen the victory conditions being "Defeat the boss or let the Boss escape." I have done that map three times. The reason why I have done that map more than once is because it is a good way to get more weapons for my army.

    As for character pairings, so far I have done the following:

    CorrinxFelicia
    ArthurxEffie
     
    Keiran

    Keiran

    [b]Rock Solid[/b]
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    Arc said:
    Doing another Conquest Lunatic run again. A couple of musings. Inherent spoilers below, especially regarding a certain trio.

    Spoiler:


    Oh, Revelations is out tomorrow. Or rather, today. Hope you guys have fun with it. It's not a particularly outstanding, but I'm sure people are aching to have questions answered and having a "large" cast to play around with.
    Click to expand...

    Spoiler:
     
    Arc

    Arc

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    Spoiler:
     
    machomuu

    machomuu

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    So, I have Conquest. Naturally went Classic Hard (since, I assumed, Hard was basically Normal, considering the description.

    I bought this game...about two weeks ago, I think? I mentioned how I got Conquest because Birthright was out and going from Hard to Easy would be pretty jarring. I also thought they were just using buzzphrases when they said that Conquest was closer to classic FE difficulty while Birthright was closer to Awakening, so I thought I wouldn't really have to worry about going back being too jarring.

    I was wrong.

    I don't regret it, though. Not long after I started, Conquest had me with its exclusive characters and I'd already found my favorite character of the three stories, so the decision justified itself pretty quickly. It's been thirteen days, I'm on the thirteenth chapter, because damn. Damn. Just damn. See, I'd avoided reading up on these games before launch and mostly avoided any info save for the controversy, so it kind of floored me when I found out just some of what Birthright has. 'Cause Conquest is a game of choices. Almost everything is a choice. The only things that aren't really big choices are actions taken in MyCastle, which is a blessing.

    ...But you guys know this. Or not, I've seen that most people actually did pick up Birthright first. But I do enjoy that pairing now is actually a decision that's worth taking into consideration and isn't just a huge boost that's objectively more efficient. As a strategy game, this games is leaps and bounds ahead of Awakening. And still pretty hard, even for a Fire Emblem game. I'd actually intended to go into this without reloading on character death, but apart from losing out on Supports, I just realized that losing characters in Conquest can be pretty devastating- as in, you can be put in situations where you either have to lower the difficulty, rely on RNG, or straight up start over. Something that, oddly, never really felt like a threat to me in the other titles. And it very well could have been, but...well.

    And I wouldn't say it's unfair. I've been tempted to buy the DLCs (probably the intent), but ultimately, I think that would go against the whole choice-based nature of Conquest. It's a game of sacrifices and decisions, and if I could just farm some not-so-free EXP/Gold, it'd kind of underplay what sets the title apart from its fraternal twin. And granted, while constantly trying and retrying stages, losing, visiting MyCastles, stealing from my pet *******, challenging others for supports, and retrying again can be a wearisome...well, it's not the only solution. Ultimately, the way they redid how items work really makes MyCastle Grinding...not really grinding. Feels more like a gateway to different strategies and hasn't ever really guaranteed me victory. And there've always been other ways, too.

    Ech, I'm rambling. And I have a lot more to say, too, but I'll shut up for now. Lovin' Conquest, can't wait to nab BR/Rev. No pairings yet despite being on Chapter 13, don't want to regret anything. If you're bored, come by Castle Virtuous and say hi to Princess Cassima.
     

    Sir Codin

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    Whoever is writing the walkthrough for this game on IGN seriously needs to get the hell over himself. Instead of doing something straightforward, he decides to act like a wannabe literature writer and writes his guides in the form of a fantasy novel.

    If I wanted to read mindless self-indulgence and third-rate fantasy novella, I'd read a random book in an Elder Scrolls game.
     
    Keiran

    Keiran

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    Something very useful for people playing/replaying on Conquest (it's a cheat sheet for Chapter 12):

    Spoiler:
     
    machomuu

    machomuu

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    CarcharOdin said:
    Whoever is writing the walkthrough for this game on IGN seriously needs to get the hell over himself. Instead of doing something straightforward, he decides to act like a wannabe literature writer and writes his guides in the form of a fantasy novel.

    If I wanted to read mindless self-indulgence and third-rate fantasy novella, I'd read a random book in an Elder Scrolls game.
    Click to expand...
    I don't see much of a problem with it. Reminds me of the Guide for Secret of Mana that's basically a narrative with some non-canonical blurbs from the MCs every now and again. Don't see a problem with someone having fun with it. 'Specially since there's already an exorbitant amount of info for FE on the web as it is.
     
    machomuu

    machomuu

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    So there's a lot of hubbub about the translation of this game being bad, and honestly, I think it suffers from many of the same writing problems that Awakening did.

    But...is it me, or did the localization team not coordinate in some places. Like, I'm sure many would agree that Nyx can be somewhat abrasive, and in text she's never really outright mean. As far as her voiced lines go, though...it's like they didn't know who the character was. Hell, going into the store she says, rather aggressively, "Buy something or get out!", and that's basically the tone of all of her voiced lines despite the fact that none of her Supports are even vaguely similar. And I feel like this stretches to a bunch of other characters as well.

    But I dunno, maybe it's just me.
     

    Sir Codin

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    I'm working on completing all the paths simultaneously.

    I'm on ch14 in Birthright, ch8 in Conquest, and ch12 in Revelations. I'm also procrastinating on all of them.
     
    Nah

    Nah

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    Idk, besides the use of the word "slugabed" the translation seems fine to me. The writing's not outstanding for the most part but it's Fire Emblem and I doubt the original Japanese is that much better.

    I also have a low standard for some things.
     
    Keiran

    Keiran

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    Nah said:
    Idk, besides the use of the word "slugabed" the translation seems fine to me. The writing's not outstanding for the most part but it's Fire Emblem and I doubt the original Japanese is that much better.

    I also have a low standard for some things.
    Click to expand...

    From what I've heard the original Japanese has better written support conversations for several female characters, like Effie and Oboro. But that's it.

    I think a lot of the side characters are kinda forced in, though. Like Nyx shows up out of no where, is seemingly indifferent about you, but regrettably joins you anyway. And she's low-tier. So what's the point. Compare Nyx to, say, Silas. The problem is even worse in Revelations where you just get tons of units thrown at you out of no where. If you didn't play Birthright or Conquest you'd be like who the heck are these people?? I think you're right about the original writing being non-outstanding in the first place. There are also tons of plot holes, so..
     
    machomuu

    machomuu

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    Keiran said:
    From what I've heard the original Japanese has better written support conversations for several female characters, like Effie and Oboro. But that's it.
    Click to expand...
    The most egregious case I heard was actual character development being changed into...either a throwaway joke or just plain silence. Of course, my comment wasn't really a sleight to the localization as a whole so much as the disconnect between the characters' (or, in particular, Nyx's) personalities with voiced lines versus the text. One other character later is the reverse case, where I can't tell if his intended personality was meant to be his voiced or his far more casual text.

    Keiran said:
    I think a lot of the side characters are kinda forced in, though. Like Nyx shows up out of no where, is seemingly indifferent about you, but regrettably joins you anyway. And she's low-tier. So what's the point. Compare Nyx to, say, Silas. The problem is even worse in Revelations where you just get tons of units thrown at you out of no where. If you didn't play Birthright or Conquest you'd be like who the heck are these people?? I think you're right about the original writing being non-outstanding in the first place. There are also tons of plot holes, so..
    Click to expand...

    Well I ignore any particular FE meta, so whether they're good or not is far more a matter of how good I can make them and their place in my army. Tiers be damned, and it'll be a long time before I take the function over form approach to gaming.

    But I suppose the point from a more objective sense would be the characters. After all, I've done a good deal of her Supports and she's one of my mains, if a bit difficult to manage, so I definitely put stock in her inclusion. And considering the applause that supports got in Awakening, that they would put more emphasis on character design and form over function in this one isn't all that surprising. Couple it with the fact that you aren't given another mage for a good deal and the FE still has an emphasis on permadeath, it makes sense from both a post-FE and a strategic standpoint. Plus, it isn't really a new thing; FE's been throwing in supposedly random supports since its beginnings, and in bulk.

    And about the supports...well, I dunno. I think any complaints that could be thrown at the writing in Fates should have also been thrown at Awakening. Hearing such modernisms as "Really? Really though?" and the many others of similar caliber have me asking "when am I"?, but it's used to comedic effect about as often as it is immersion breaking. Not really gonna judge the Japanese version because I haven't experienced it, but I've played a good deal of supports that, be it because of the writing or the actual substance, seem...distant? Empty? Awakening also had this, though I will say that I'd imagine a number of embellishments in the localization probably worked to make the supports more colorful and interesting than the original Japanese. But eh, *shrugs* Who knows.
     
    Arc

    Arc

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    machomuu said:
    The most egregious case I heard was actual character development being changed into...either a throwaway joke or just plain silence. Of course, my comment wasn't really a sleight to the localization as a whole so much as the disconnect between the characters' (or, in particular, Nyx's) personalities with voiced lines versus the text. One other character later is the reverse case, where I can't tell if his intended personality was meant to be his voiced or his far more casual text.
    Click to expand...
    It happened in previous games as well. Like Henry going from a misguided and traumatized psychopath, to well... a complete psychopath. Kyza going from the flamboyant homosexual stereotype to having zero personality at all. But, Fates has gone double down on emphasizing character traits and eliminating some to a staggering degree. About the voice disconnect with some characters between their written text, I definitely agree with that. Dwyer is another example, his voice lines gives the impression that he's a lazy sack of bones. But, he isn't. He's a pretty dutiful character who's just tired all the time. A lot of his supports go over how he isn't actually all that lazy, and that he's an A-class butler.
    machomuu said:
    And about the supports...well, I dunno. I think any complaints that could be thrown at the writing in Fates should have also been thrown at Awakening. Hearing such modernisms as "Really? Really though?" and the many others of similar caliber have me asking "when am I"?, but it's used to comedic effect about as often as it is immersion breaking. Not really gonna judge the Japanese version because I haven't experienced it, but I've played a good deal of supports that, be it because of the writing or the actual substance, seem...distant? Empty? Awakening also had this, though I will say that I'd imagine a number of embellishments in the localization probably worked to make the supports more colorful and interesting than the original Japanese. But eh, *shrugs* Who knows.
    Click to expand...
    This has always been a problem with the localization with Fire Emblems though. Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, are two games with writing that have a fair amount of modern quips to it, which doesn't fit the atmosphere at all. Aside from that one moment when iambic pentameter was used in PoR. I would absolutely love it if every localization followed Shadow Dragon's example. It completely destroyed Marth's character, but when you give nice prose like this, it might be a fair trade.
    Jagen:
    "Look, sire. See how Altea shrinks on the horizon…"
    Marth:
    "..aven…"
    Jagen:
    "I beg your pardon?"
    Marth:
    "I am a craven. Powerless to save my sister, to staunch my kingdom's wounds; to ease my people's fears…"
    Jagen:
    "This…was your only recourse, sire. But surely, one day, you will be able to set things right…"
    Marth:
    ""Surely"? Why do words of such conviction smack so much of uncertainty when spoken? Not surely, Jagen. Assuredly. Gra will pay for their acts. Today, though, allow me to wallow in this pain, to feel every awful twist of it. I never want to forget."
    Jagen:
    "Sire…"
    Marth:
    "I will return, Altea! Your prince will return to you one day!"
    Click to expand...
     

    Sir Codin

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    They cut out almost every single one of Soleil's supports in the localization as well.

    I can understand the "gay conversion" censorship, but to cut out everything else regarding Soleil was just totally unnecessary.
     
    Loriania

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    I decided to do a Conquest M!Corrin file. Named him after one of my fave anime characters, but didn't get the hair right.

    Anyway... what are good pairings if I went with the Knight class?
     
    Arc

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    Loriania said:
    Anyway... what are good pairings if I went with the Knight class?
    Click to expand...
    N-none? It's not exactly a class that Corrin is interested in. I mean, the skill are cool, but it's far from ideal to have Knight as a talent.

    But, if you're still interested in going Knight, there are only a few candidates to make it really work (benefiting both partners and maybe the child). Only 1st!Gen females here. 2nd!Gen has way, way too many variables to account for. Also, I have no idea what you picked for your Boon and Bane, so, that might skew with the results.

    Beruka is actually pretty fine with getting Knight. She's interested in two skills from the Knight line, namely Luna (Great Knight) and Wary Fighter (General). It gives her a proc and fixes her speed issues. Both of those classes retain her axe rank as well, so that will make the transition phase much smoother. Corrin taking on the Wyvern Rider line is cool too. The weapon overlap is non-existent, so you'll have to deal with E-rank Axes / E-rank Tomes, in the beginning. Potentially getting Strength +2, Lunge, Savage Blow, and/or Rally Defense early on is pretty cool with Corrin and will definitely give him more support capabilities. Resulting Kana is going to be very middling, however. Growth rates will primarily will be below 50 on all the primary stats except for Skl and Lck, I believe. Overall? Good pairing if you're emphasizing on bulk and hitting hard.

    Selena is another candidate that might be interested from the Knight line. Well, not really. She just wants Luna and Defence +2, and maybe Armored Blow (Great Knight), if you're willing to go that far. Still, Great Knight isn't a really a bad class for Selena to be in for a while. Gives her a mount, she still retains sword rank, and hopefully the class growth rates will fix her offense and bulk. Corrin is fine with getting Mercenary. Unfortunately, nothing too extraordinary skills to pick up, aside from Sol (Hero) and Shurikenbreaker (Bow Knight). Resulting Kana will be a speed demon, and nothing else. Overall? A pairing that will fix the other partner's shortcomings, Selena is going to be giving speed and Corrin will be giving offence alongside defence, hopefully.

    Camilla, in theory, is alright as well. She's more like Selena, in that she's only interested in the Great Knight skills and nothing more. But, the benefit for Corrin is the exact same if he was to pair with Beruka. So, he'll be getting Wyvern Rider skills out of this union with Camilla. Resulting Kana, is actually pretty decent. Her growth averages for the offensive stats will be in the mid-40s which is cool, and she'll be even faster than Selena!Kana, lol. Overall? You can't go wrong with this pairing, far from being the best, but it's good.
     
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