6th Gen Gym Leaders and Elite Four

BakingBluePotatoe said:
... I finally ended up spoiling something.

Spoiler:
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You spoiled it? I kinda already did on Page 23 :P But yeah, this guy is gonna be Lenora on crack! Unless the TM for Protect is available before that point.

Also, one other thing I don't think I mentioned was that they seem to have gone back to the "all their Pokémon are the same level except their ace which is two above that" that they had in Generation V (and XY's Elite Four), which in thinking about was probably a good idea as it makes all their Pokémon a good range and makes them a bit more of a challenge as opposed to having stuff with all their levels spread out like they did in every game prior to then.
 
Pendraflare said:
You spoiled it? I kinda already did on Page 23 :P But yeah, this guy is gonna be Lenora on crack! Unless the TM for Protect is available before that point.
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Hush you, I'm being a good girl and trying to avoid spoilers :p

... and To be honest, I don't remember Lenora being particularly difficult... granted, I probably had Emboar by then, AND I had Victini to back my up :p

Whitney was kind of annoying... but Norman... my god, I still have nightmares about him D8
 
I actually like the fact that they are trying to make Norman much tougher. He is your dad, after all. In the original games I actually found him rather easy..

With retaliate however, I don't think protect is going to do much good. Besides, all 3 of his pokemon use it.
 
I'll just keep using Aron against Norman. Quad resist to Normal, not even Slaking's Attack penetrates my Defense. Retaliate has the same BP as Façade unless he uses it on the turn after one of his Pokémon dies. Aron no longer resists Feint Attack, but now it hits its stronger Defense rather than its Sp.Def. Potions are game, and crits were nerfed in 6th gen.

Norman was better equipped against my strategy in Emerald. His Slaking had Counter, which meant I had to be very careful when using physical attacks. However, Slaking has (surprise!) Truant, so I could just attack him in the Truant turns. Occasionally, Metal Claw would raise my Attack and make it even easier to kill him.

I personally think Wattson is much harder than Norman, unless you start with Mudkip. If you have the right Pokémon, nothing is hard.
 
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Cerberus87 said:
I'll just keep using Aron against Norman. Quad resist to Normal, not even Slaking's Attack penetrates my Defense. Retaliate has the same BP as Façade unless he uses it on the turn after one of his Pokémon dies. Aron no longer resists Feint Attack, but now it hits its stronger Defense rather than its Sp.Def. Potions are game, and crits were nerfed in 6th gen.

Norman was better equipped against my strategy in Emerald. His Slaking had Counter, which meant I had to be very careful when using physical attacks. However, Slaking has (surprise!) Truant, so I could just attack him in the Truant turns. Occasionally, Metal Claw would raise my Attack and make it even easier to kill him.

I personally think Wattson is much harder than Norman, unless you start with Mudkip. If you have the right Pokémon, nothing is hard.
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Well actually those who pick Mudkip tend to have an easier time with Wattson, as their Mudkips are usually evolved by then (I'm speaking from personal experience).
Maybe they'll give Norman's pokemon access to Power-up Punch (at least in the rematches) to take care of those pesky Steel/Rock types you're talking about xD.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Well actually those who pick Mudkip tend to have an easier time with Wattson, as their Mudkips are usually evolved by then (I'm speaking from personal experience).
Maybe they'll give Norman's pokemon access to Power-up Punch (at least in the rematches) to take care of those pesky Steel/Rock types you're talking about xD.
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After a thorough read-through of the Gym Leaders' movesets on the Pastebin dump, here's what I'm thinking their TM prizes are, and surprisingly some actually changed from the originals:

Spoiler:


I noticed Norman's moveset doesn't even have any moves that would counter Normal resists other than Ghost (Feint Attack) so yeah a Rock or Steel-type is going to wall him easily. But giving him Retaliate makes him essentially Lenora 2.0. Wattson will now be utilizing Volt Switch meaning he'll now be just as annoying as Elesa in 5th Gen.
 
Hikamaru said:
After a thorough read-through of the Gym Leaders' movesets on the Pastebin dump, here's what I'm thinking their TM prizes are, and surprisingly some actually changed from the originals:

Spoiler:


I noticed Norman's moveset doesn't even have any moves that would counter Normal resists other than Ghost (Feint Attack) so yeah a Rock or Steel-type is going to wall him easily. But giving him Retaliate makes him essentially Lenora 2.0. Wattson will now be utilizing Volt Switch meaning he'll now be just as annoying as Elesa in 5th Gen.
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Thankfully magneton isn't the fastest electric type out there, so I don't think it'll be as annoying as Elesa. As for Norman, something like the Aron line would be the best choice..
 
Seems they've also found the IVs of the Pokémon present. The Elite Four's will be 25 while Steven has all his at 30, we may have the new Cynthia on our hands :o

I'm pretty sure that in XY the four had their IVs at 22 while Diantha's was 28, I always wondered what Unova's was so it's interesting that they got this info here.
 
AltiusX said:
Thankfully magneton isn't the fastest electric type out there, so I don't think it'll be as annoying as Elesa. As for Norman, something like the Aron line would be the best choice..
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Looking at Norman's movesets, it appears he has no threatening moves other than Retaliate. Just wow, Game Freak... you made someone using the Aron line to defeat him that much easier.

Pendraflare said:
Seems they've also found the IVs of the Pokémon present. The Elite Four's will be 25 while Steven has all his at 30, we may have the new Cynthia on our hands :o

I'm pretty sure that in XY the four had their IVs at 22 while Diantha's was 28, I always wondered what Unova's was so it's interesting that they got this info here.
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Ah yeah we all remember why Cynthia and Ghetsis were such threats... they had maxed IVs. Steven can now be called part of that club, but at least makes us all dread fighting that Mega Metagross of his. Tough Claws + all physical set + 30 IVs = Downright brutal.
 
Hikamaru said:
Looking at Norman's movesets, it appears he has no threatening moves other than Retaliate. Just wow, Game Freak... you made someone using the Aron line to defeat him that much easier.



Ah yeah we all remember why Cynthia and Ghetsis were such threats... they had maxed IVs. Steven can now be called part of that club, but at least makes us all dread fighting that Mega Metagross of his. Tough Claws + all physical set + 30 IVs = Downright brutal.
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I recall hearing that all of the Unova League had max IVs, not sure if that was true.


Btw again, Demos are usually based off of Beta data, so it's possible that GF has already fixed that in the final copy, and given one of his Team members Power up Punch.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Btw again, Demos are usually based off of Beta data, so it's possible that GF has already fixed that in the final copy, and given one of his Team members Power up Punch.
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I know.

But if they do give him PUP, there'll literally be nothing that can resist that mighty Slaking of his. Comparing Retaliate to the originals where he used Facade, I think the Facade strategy was much more deadly because it meant you had to think twice before statusing it. Retaliate can be tanked by a Normal resist, which explains why one would take Lenora's Retaliate with a Roggenrola in Black & White.
 
Hikamaru said:
I know.

But if they do give him PUP, there'll literally be nothing that can resist that mighty Slaking of his.
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Except for Protecting every second turn, or using a varient of that move. I'm more afraid of his Vigoroth...especially if GF decides to go back and give it Evolite, it'll be somewhat harder to take down.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Except for Protecting every second turn, or using a varient of that move. I'm more afraid of his Vigoroth...especially if GF decides to go back and give it Evolite, it'll be somewhat harder to take down.
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I'm certain that Gym Leaders don't have held items in the initial battle against them, so having an Eviolite on his Vigoroth would be out of the question. Still I think he will end up likely the hardest Hoenn Gym Leader in these games, although Roxanne did get a little buffed thanks to the buff her signature move, Rock Tomb received this generation.

Tate & Liza might also become a bit harder as well because in the originals, Surf was usually the move of choice to attack both of their Pokemon at the same time, but now that the move hits your partner as well it may be much less enticing to use. Thankfully Dark moves will be more effective against them now thanks to the physical/special split.

Wallace's Milotic I think will still be as heavy of a nuisance that it always was.
 
Hikamaru said:
I'm certain that Gym Leaders don't have held items in the initial battle against them, so having an Eviolite on his Vigoroth would be out of the question. Still I think he will end up likely the hardest Hoenn Gym Leader in these games, although Roxanne did get a little buffed thanks to the buff her signature move, Rock Tomb received this generation.

Tate & Liza might also become a bit harder as well because in the originals, Surf was usually the move of choice to attack both of their Pokemon at the same time, but now that the move hits your partner as well it may be much less enticing to use. Thankfully Dark moves will be more effective against them now thanks to the physical/special split.

Wallace's Milotic I think will still be as heavy of a nuisance that it always was.
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Actually in Emerald his Slaking had a Sitrus Berry in the first match, but not so in Ruby and Sapphire. So maybe GF will reference that and give one of his mons an item in the final version of the games. Maybe that berry that weakens fighting moves even...that along with Power-up Punch, and perhaps Shadow Claw will ensure great coverage.
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
Actually in Emerald his Slaking had a Sitrus Berry in the first match, but not so in Ruby and Sapphire. So maybe GF will reference that and give one of his mons an item in the final version of the games. Maybe that berry that weakens fighting moves even...that along with Power-up Punch, and perhaps Shadow Claw will ensure great coverage.
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Yeah, but I think the only held items ever used in the initial battle was a Sitrus Berry at best.

I do wonder that should we get rematches with Gym Leaders in this game (although it's looking unlikely at this stage) they will get some really good coverage. Norman was always the one Hoenn Gym Leader I hated fighting just because of his overpowered Slakings. And remember how in the PWT in B2/W2 we had Gym Leaders using berries that weakened certain types' attacks and basically I always lost to them thanks to my super-effective hits getting nerfed and them easily taking me out in return.

But oh god a Chople Berry on his Slaking... that will not be fun.

Flannery on the other hand seems to retain a lot of her "scary" moves such as Overheat and her Torkoal's dreaded Body Slam, which I heard caused some Nuzlockers pain. Kinda surprised they didn't give her Attract because I heard Torkoal was quite annoying with that move. Difficulty-wise I think there's not going to be much change for her, same goes for Brawly.
 
Hikamaru said:
Yeah, but I think the only held items ever used in the initial battle was a Sitrus Berry at best.

I do wonder that should we get rematches with Gym Leaders in this game (although it's looking unlikely at this stage) they will get some really good coverage. Norman was always the one Hoenn Gym Leader I hated fighting just because of his overpowered Slakings. And remember how in the PWT in B2/W2 we had Gym Leaders using berries that weakened certain types' attacks and basically I always lost to them thanks to my super-effective hits getting nerfed and them easily taking me out in return.

But oh god a Chople Berry on his Slaking... that will not be fun.

Flannery on the other hand seems to retain a lot of her "scary" moves such as Overheat and her Torkoal's dreaded Body Slam, which if I recall killed Marriland's Swalot in his Emerald Nuzlocke. Kinda surprised they didn't give her Attract because I heard Torkoal was quite annoying with that move. Difficulty-wise I think there's not going to be much change for her, same goes for Brawly.
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Yeah, not pretty. Oh it was...


I think that the gym leaders if they get Megas will get these:


Roxanne- Mega Aerodactyl (she had one in the Emerald rematches) or maybe Mega Aggron (even if it loses the Rock type)
Brawly- Mega Medicham
Wattson- Mega Manectric (his ace from Emerald Mega evolved)
Flannery- Mega Camerupt
Norman- Mega Kangaskhan (he had one in the Emerald rematches too). This one will be the most freightning...
Winona- Mega Altaria (even if it loses the flying type)
Tate and Liza- The Megas of Kirlia's evos
Wallace- Mega Gyarados.
 
I opened that Norman spoiler, and closed it right away. I managed to avoid the levels, Pokemon and moves which is a good thing. It's becoming so hard to avoid spoilers now! ;;
 
Hoenn said:
I opened that Norman spoiler, and closed it right away. I managed to avoid the levels, Pokemon and moves which is a good thing. It's becoming so hard to avoid spoilers now! ;;
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I know...I also tried to look away as soon as possible, sadly I didn't look away fast enough before my brain processed some of them. Also I wish more people would use spoiler tags...
 
OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:
I know...I also tried to look away as soon as possible, sadly I didn't look away fast enough before my brain processed some of them. Also I wish more people would use spoiler tags...
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I know, I mean it's interesting to have a look but I'd rather steer away even though they are remakes. There seems to be significant changes in both difficulty, levels, items etc.
 
Hoenn said:
I know, I mean it's interesting to have a look but I'd rather steer away even though they are remakes. There seems to be significant changes in both difficulty, levels, items etc.
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At least we can take comfort in the possibility that they may change some of the things up before the games come out, considering the Demo was likely made up of beta data (it even lacks the flying feature is what I've read...which is interesting...I guess they added that last minute, or the Demo's coding was done earlier than I am thinking). I'm still not spoiling myself just in case they don't change it in the final version...
 
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