How come non white people are still not openly accepted as leading actor/actress in entertainment industry?

[dogtree]

You see it all the time in movies such as batman, spider man and many more!! . Would mainstream movies such as batman and spider man been successful if leading actor/actress were non white?

Movie has to attract majority of people. And who is majority ( white people). So is it safe to say that
white people are subconsciously racist?


so when will white people accept non white people in entertainment industry?

 

[Her]

Will Smith, Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman, Jacky Chan, Halle Berry etc...

naming the first black actors and single asian actor (with his name misspelled) that come to mind is all well and good, but that does nothing to erase the lack of representation in hollywood and the entertainment industry in general
rather, it shows just how much further we have to go when it comes to giving poc lead roles

without getting into a separate topic that requires much more elaboration, yes, white people (like myself) are subconsciously racist until they start the process of unlearning such habits. thus, the likelihood of superhero movies being as successful with non-white actors in the lead roles is not much.
and it goes without saying that there are those who will actively go out of their way to avoid films featuring poc in lead roles, but i digress.

 

[Grey Wind]

We don't have to GIVE minorities anything. Here's how the film industry (and real world) works. You work hard, develop character, pitch yourself to an employer. Just because "wah wah slavery happened to my ancestors" does not mean you are entitled to anything, least of all a role that will make you millions of dollars. Writers and directors have the creative freedom to make whatever movie they want with whomever they think is best for the role, regardless of their gender/skin colour/sexuality. You don't like it? Make your own movie or quit whining.

My favourite movies are action ones from the 80's and 90/s. There has been no lack of "minority" stars or co/stars even decades ago. Wesley Snipes in Blade Runner? Danny Glover being a partner (equal) with Mel Gibson in the Lethal Weapon series? Your case is ridiculous. Now they have titles like the Blind Side, Django Unchained etc. These DELIBERATELY cater to minorities and were rather successful. Even if there were a disparity, what do you do, force racial and gender quotas in movies so everything is all inclusive and politically correct?

https://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/media/MDSCI/Racial Inequality in Film 2007-2013 Final.ashx

Just over a quarter (25.9%) of the 3,932 speaking characters evaluated were from underrepresented racial/ethnic groups. A full 74.1% were White, 14.1% Black, 4.9% Hispanic, 4.4% Asian, 1.1% Middle Eastern, <1% American Indian or Alaskan Native, and 1.2% were from "other" races/ethnicities.

There is a huge lack of representation in film and tv. Honestly if you can't notice the prevalence of white people and total lack of POC in the entertainment industry then you're just being willfully ignorant. There's entire wikipedia articles covering it.

And it's not about special treatment and "giving" people roles, it's about equal treatment. Stop trying to imply that minority groups wanting equal rights and treatment is somehow favouritism and special treatment. You're paranoia and borderline hatred of minorities is honestly so bizarre.

"wah wah slavery happened to my ancestors"

Speechless tbh.

 

[Her]

i do not consider limerent's post worthy of response

anyway
question: off the top of your head, how many of you can name an asian actress of any descent that is not lucy liu? i suppose this question will get better responses than on here than the average social circle irl due to this forum having a marked interest in japan & south korea, which is good, but anyway. when asked this a few months ago, the only person i could think of was fan bingbing and that was after a good minute of racking through my brain.
the same question goes for michelle rodriguez. can you name another latino actress off the top of your head?
can you name a single native american actress? it pains me to say that i cannot name one at all.

i would like some answers to the actual questions, but this is meant to provoke more discussion about representation as a whole and not just show who you know or don't know.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

I don't know why you'd want to be represented in Hollywood anyway...

also, who cares? This isn't Congress we're talking about, not that it's any better there (can you expect it to be really).

 

[Her]

I don't know why you'd want to be represented in Hollywood anyway...

also, who cares? This isn't Congress we're talking about, not that it's any better there (can you expect it to be really).

this very statement is why the topic exists
i'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're white like myself, given that the majority of people who don't care about representation are white.
if you're not, then i'm sorry for the mistake.
but if you cannot see why representation in media is important, then it's because you've probably spent your entire life seeing people like you in mainstream film, tv, songs, etc. even billboards, little advertisements in magazines, dolls/figurines, art, etc.

non-representation is all about white supremacy saying that 'your kind of people' are not worthy of being seen for whatever reason. that they're ugly or otherwise not fit to be seen in a media that influences other people. or, when they are represented, they are shown as something undesirable or the character is a stereotype. if you cannot understand why this could be (and is) damaging to countless numbers of children, then i am sorry. it tells them they are unworthy in the white gaze (not that they'll understand it in those terms), they're unattractive, etc. this has been going on for generations now and only now within the last 20 years or so have we somewhat tried to remedy the issue. representation is incredibly important, trust me.

 

[Nihilego]

https://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/media/MDSCI/Racial Inequality in Film 2007-2013 Final.ashx

Just over a quarter (25.9%) of the 3,932 speaking characters evaluated were from underrepresented racial/ethnic groups. A full 74.1% were White, 14.1% Black, 4.9% Hispanic, 4.4% Asian, 1.1% Middle Eastern, <1% American Indian or Alaskan Native, and 1.2% were from "other" races/ethnicities.

From the same study:

According to the 2010 U.S. Census, 16.3% of the population is Hispanic, 12.6% Black and 4.8% Asian.

Going by this and the numbers that you've presented, White, Black and Asian people were actually over-represented (edit: my mistake, Asian people were actually very slightly under-represented). I'll admit that Hispanic people were pretty severely under-represented and that White people were the most over-represented but I feel like it's a bit of a stretch to say that there's a "huge lack" of representation and that to not notice it is to be "willfully ignorant" when only one studied group was under-represented.

without getting into a separate topic that requires much more elaboration, yes, white people (like myself) are subconsciously racist until they start the process of unlearning such habits

Any evidence for this? Claiming that someone's skin colour makes them automatically racist is a very, very bold statement.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

this very statement is why the topic exists
i'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're white like myself, given that the majority of people who don't care about representation are white.
if you're not, then i'm sorry for the mistake.
but if you cannot see why representation in media is important, then it's because you've probably spent your entire life seeing people like you in mainstream film, tv, songs, etc. even billboards, little advertisements in magazines, dolls/figurines, art, etc.

non-representation is all about white supremacy saying that 'your kind of people' are not worthy of being seen for whatever reason. that they're ugly or otherwise not fit to be seen in a media that influences other people. or, when they are represented, they are shown as something undesirable or the character is a stereotype. if you cannot understand why this could be (and is) damaging to countless numbers of children, then i am sorry. it tells them they are unworthy in the white gaze (not that they'll understand it in those terms), they're unattractive, etc. this has been going on for generations now and only now within the last 20 years or so have we somewhat tried to remedy the issue. representation is incredibly important, trust me.

I'm sorry, but my race has no bearing on my argument. Also, I think self-hating whites are a really sad sight to see.

Would a magistrate's race have a bearing on their ability to judge? No. Would anyone else's? I think not. I don't care about who's what in Hollywood, sorry. Hell, I don't even care about representation in Congress here in the US because it's also a charade in my eyes. This thread is a stellar example of making race an issue where there was none.

SJWs are a lot like a lot of other self-entitled groups. Parents who think they're right by default, police who think they're legitimized vigilante, Americans who think they own the world in an attempt to piss on it, and your internet crusaders who take it a hundred steps further with a vain attempt at social acceptance through destroying it's very construct. I'm sorry, but I can't condone that sort of behaviour.

 

[Her]

Any evidence for this? Claiming that someone's skin colour makes them automatically racist is a very, very bold statement.

let me rephrase
white people who live under white supremacy are going to benefit from it, that's hardly a new fact
and a large majority of white people will have subtle racist beliefs that result from white supremacist power structures (the media, education, government etc) and their own family being influenced by these structures before them
so it is hardly their fault that they may have underlying racist beliefs/notions/etc
but until they acknowledge and challenge their own subconscious behaviors/beliefs and the structure that serves them, they benefit from racism and therefore are racist

intent hardly matters

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

let me rephrase
white people who live under white supremacy are going to benefit from it, that's hardly a new fact
and a large majority of white people will have subtle racist beliefs that result from white supremacist power structures (the media, education, government etc) and their own family being influenced by these structures before them
so it is hardly their fault that they may have underlying racist beliefs/notions/etc
but until they acknowledge and challenge their own subconscious behaviors/beliefs and the structure that serves them, they benefit from racism and therefore are racist

intent hardly matters

Isn't intent like, I don't know, the difference between first and second degree murder?

 

[Her]

well, i was meaning intent hardly matters when it comes to being racist given how pervasive white supremacy is
if you murder someone out of a racist belief then of course intent matters

but that isn't really relevant to the point of the thread so i'd like to steer it back a bit

 

[Nah]

let me rephrase
white people who live under white supremacy are going to benefit from it, that's hardly a new fact
and a large majority of white people will have subtle racist beliefs that result from white supremacist power structures (the media, education, government etc) and their own family being influenced by these structures before them
so it is hardly their fault that they may have underlying racist beliefs/notions/etc
but until they acknowledge and challenge their own subconscious behaviors/beliefs and the structure that serves them, they benefit from racism and therefore are racist

intent hardly matters

"Benefitting" from a system that is perceived to favor one race over the other does not mean that all people born of the favored skin pigmentation are racist. Racism is a mentality, a way of thinking. It is a learned social behavior and is not genetic. What you are describing is privilege, not racism, and privilege =/= racism either.

I find it ****ing mind-boggling that some people will assume I'm something as terrible as racist due to factors well beyond my control (my skin color and my nationality). So it's not ok to hate some people because of their skin color, but it's ok to hate others because of their skin color, when no one has control over what their skin color is? Wtf kind of logic is that?

 

[Her]

again, ignoring limerent

and you are right, it most certainly is privilege
but privilege & racism go hand in hand and i would love to get back to the topic at hand about representation rather than discussing the semantics of white privilege and what not

i suppose a good point of discussion would be everyone's favourite movie, frozen
it was much criticised for completely eliminating the sami people from the story on which it is based/took inspiration from
furthermore, there weren't any significant people of colour throughout the movie, which drew even further ire from those who were aware of the situation
do any of you have opinions or

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

again, ignoring limerent

and you are right, it most certainly is privilege
but privilege & racism go hand in hand and i would love to get back to the topic at hand about representation rather than discussing the semantics of white privilege and what not

i suppose a good point of discussion would be everyone's favourite movie, frozen
it was much criticised for completely eliminating the sami people from the story on which it is based/took inspiration from
furthermore, there weren't any significant people of colour throughout the movie, which drew even further ire from those who were aware of the situation
do any of you have opinions or

> White privilege

That's where you're slipping up. that's where this racist attitude is stemming from. Keyword: "white". That's just... ewww.

well, i was meaning intent hardly matters when it comes to being racist given how pervasive white supremacy is
if you murder someone out of a racist belief then of course intent matters

but that isn't really relevant to the point of the thread so i'd like to steer it back a bit

Intent is key in anything. With murder it's saying vehicular manslaughter is worthy of capital punishment along with every other form of killing, accidental or otherwise; with race it implies the same: a catch for an otherwise blind, blanket judgment. People can make unintentionally racist remarks. It happens, especially under particularly anxious conditions things like to roll off your tongue that you didn't even think.

Yes, steer us away from the fact that your own bigoted view of white people who don't have the exact same opinion of you means they are racist. Any claim that you want 'equality' in any sector will be laughed at because you cannot throw away racism towards your own race.

On topic: For me quality and freedom of creative expression trumps quotas for equal representation. I care if a movie is good or not. You can do that with a cast of any background but ultimately the producer/casting agent/director etc. has the final say as to who is the best for their role. If you don't like that they black guy didn't get picked put him as the lead into your own movie, you cannot force freedom of creative expression.

You wanna make a movie with a fully diverse cast? Go ahead, I won't stop you. I mean, I think your movie will be crap, not because ethnic actors are bad but because you've picked them for their ethnicity rather than their acting skills.

Also, we are consumers. Our say means very little to producers. If a game developer was forced to listen to every whim of the fanbase his game would turn into a convoluted pile of dog ****. So, to reinforce; make your own movies or shut up, nobody is obligated to oblige your complaints and and rightfully so.

The point at which these sorts of people fail is that they make the grave mistake of assuming that it's not racist when you're going against some groups but not others, and they further justify it by being self-loathing about it. It's all bull****.

 

[Captain Gizmo]

Lmao, is this for real? Just from the top of my head I can name you at least 20 movies minimum that have a a non-CAUCASIAN male/female lead both big budget and indie movies.

Where do you get this source from? It's highly inaccurate.

 

[Neo Emolga]

I'd have to agree with Limerent, I really don't even look at what race, gender, or ethnicity the actor is, I'm more in it for the storyline, the actor's skill, and substance of the movie itself. I don't even consider myself that great with Hollywood pop culture and who's who. I can't tell you who was in what movie, but I can at least tell you what the movie was about and offer some deeper, philosophical insight about it.

Also, I think this is worth noting:

[Gordon] Freeman notes there is no "white history month," and says the only way to get rid of racism is to "stop talking about it." The actor says he believes the labels "black" and "white" are an obstacle to beating racism. "I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man," Freeman says.

https://www.today.com/id/10482634

Can't help but agree. Only once you drop the ethnicity labels will you drop the racism. The focus should be more on talent, quality, and substance rather than labels.

 

[Oryx]

Just because you don't think that you see things through a lens of ingrained bigotry doesn't mean you don't. In the 90s, they changed orchestra auditions so the people auditioning took off their shoes and played behind a curtain, so the judges couldn't see them. Women in the orchestra shot through the roof. It wasn't because these judges were evil cartoon villains thinking "I don't think women are good at playing trumpet, so I'm going to score every woman I see lower!" These were normal people, like you and me, that had a prejudice ingrained into them by society that they acted out unconsciously.

This is why racism and sexism and homophobia and other kinds of bigotry exist in a world where the general thought process is "bigotry is wrong!" People that perpetuate racist stereotypes aren't people thinking "I hate black people!", they're people subconsciously judging based on race without even knowing it themselves. It's why we have to be aware of race and can't just plug our ears and cover our eyes and say "I don't see color everyone is the same can't we just treat everyone the saaaaame?" That's ignorant and we need to pay attention to race to combat subconscious racism.

 

[Nyro]

I agree there are too few high paid minority actors. I think the issue is the profession is just more interesting to whites then blacks and asians and other races. Blacks for instance lean more towards sports and professional careers like lawyers if they go the educated route. Many asian cultures look down on acting as a "REAL" career also. Anyways that does not mean directors cant look for more minority roles but lets look at the top 10 grossing Actors and Actresses so far for 2014

ACTORS:

1. Robert Downey Jr - $75 mil (White)
2. Dwayne Johnson - $52 mil (Somoan and black)
3. Bradley Cooper - $46 mill (White)
4. Leonardo Dicaprio - $39 mil (White)
5. Chris Hemsworth - $37 mil (White)
6. Liam Neeson - $36 mil (White)
7. Ben Affleck - $35 mil (Tool)
8. Christian Bale - $35 mil (White)
9. Will Smith - $32 mil (Black)
10. Mark Wahlberg - $32 mil (White)

I personally believe it is because of high school. A lot of African americans specifically are encouraged to do sports. Not theater or any other performing arts sadly. However as I said IT IS an issue that is quiet apparent. But there is also biased on the pay of Actors compared to Actresses as you will see....

ACTRESSES:

1. Angelina Jolie - $32 mil (White)

2. Sarah Jessica Parker - $30 mil (White)

3. Jennifer Aniston - $28 mil (White)

4. Reese Witherspoon - $28 mil (White)

5. Julia Roberts - $20 mil (White)

6. Kristen Stewart - $20 mil (White)

7. Katherine Heigl - $19 mil (White)

8. Cameron Diaz - $18 mil (White)

9. Sandra Bullock - $15 mil (White)

10. Meryl Streep - $10 mil (White)

Females obviously get lower wages in hollywood. And White women are preferred simply because Black,White and Hispanic men (on average) prefer the looks of white women and hollywood sells sex.

 

[Captain Gizmo]

I agree there are too few high paid minority actors. I think the issue is the profession is just more interesting to whites then blacks and asians and other races. Blacks for instance lean more towards sports and professional careers like lawyers if they go the educated route. Many asian cultures look down on acting as a "REAL" career also. Anyways that does not mean directors cant look for more minority roles but lets look at the top 10 grossing Actors and Actresses so far for 2014

ACTORS:

1. Robert Downey Jr - $75 mil (White)
2. Dwayne Johnson - $52 mil (Somoan and black)
3. Bradley Cooper - $46 mill (White)
4. Leonardo Dicaprio - $39 mil (White)
5. Chris Hemsworth - $37 mil (White)
6. Liam Neeson - $36 mil (White)
7. Ben Affleck - $35 mil (Tool)
8. Christian Bale - $35 mil (White)
9. Will Smith - $32 mil (Black)
10. Mark Wahlberg - $32 mil (White)

I personally believe it is because of high school. A lot of African americans specifically are encouraged to do sports. Not theater or any other performing arts sadly. However as I said IT IS an issue that is quiet apparent. But there is also biased on the pay of Actors compared to Actresses as you will see....

ACTRESSES:

1. Angelina Jolie - $32 mil (White)

2. Sarah Jessica Parker - $30 mil (White)

3. Jennifer Aniston - $28 mil (White)

4. Reese Witherspoon - $28 mil (White)

5. Julia Roberts - $20 mil (White)

6. Kristen Stewart - $20 mil (White)

7. Katherine Heigl - $19 mil (White)

8. Cameron Diaz - $18 mil (White)

9. Sandra Bullock - $15 mil (White)

10. Meryl Streep - $10 mil (White)

Females obviously get lower wages in hollywood. And White women are preferred simply because Black,White and Hispanic men (on average) prefer the looks of white women and hollywood sells sex.

I'm curious, from where did you get your source for their income?

 

[Kanzler]

again, ignoring limerent

and you are right, it most certainly is privilege
but privilege & racism go hand in hand and i would love to get back to the topic at hand about representation rather than discussing the semantics of white privilege and what not

i suppose a good point of discussion would be everyone's favourite movie, frozen
it was much criticised for completely eliminating the sami people from the story on which it is based/took inspiration from
furthermore, there weren't any significant people of colour throughout the movie, which drew even further ire from those who were aware of the situation
do any of you have opinions or

The Sami people are white. You probably couldn't get more White than Sami, actually, just look at Renee Zellweger. Also, Frozen is based on the Snow Queen, a fairy tale by Hans Christian Andersen, a Dane. The tale doesn't refer to Danes nor Samis just like how Hansel and Gretel doesn't refer to Germans. Just because it was written by an author of a certain ethnic group doesn't mean that it's meant to be some kind of statement about ethnic groups.

Anyways, the setting of the movie is something like 19th century Scandinavia, which again, is as white as you can get. Even the Scandinavia of today is very white, consider Norway, which is home to 660,000 immigrants, half of which are non-Western which leaves you with 6.5% people of colour.

For those of us who live in Anglo countries and are oh-so-familiar with the experiment of multiculturalism, we really need to wake up to the fact that countries like ours are the abnormal ones. We have "multiculturalism" privilege, if you will, in that we simply don't see that multicultural is not normal in the rest of the world. It's a bit of a miracle that we manage to have sizeable racial and ethnic minorities and not have society riot everyday.

In summary, I really don't see how the story is "based" on the Sami people. If anything, some of the aesthetic direction took inspiration from Sami culture (Kristoff, his furs and pointy shoes) but isn't that inclusion and not exclusion? Fairy tales aren't about races and nations, they're about children and trolls and witches and kings and queens and knights and fairies.