I Don't Understand why Dawn is so Popular.

[Hikamaru]

Yeah... TCPI is bad. They ruined the anime's dub, imo. I'm honestly with you on this one, so it's probably not nostalgia talking. guess, such is what happens when you hire cheaper voice actors. :| So, I feel you.

Don't forget all the music replacement they do (granted, it's likely due to them not wanting to pay royalties to use that expensive original music). That was one of the things people spotted a lot in XY's dub a lot.

 

[EC]

It was probably those boots that won a lot of people over.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

It was probably those boots that won a lot of people over.

And what's beneath those boots if you catch my drift. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Plus the quality of the actual Pokemon starts going downhill in Generation 3. I may be one of the nostalgic fans but there's a reason we're nostalgic, the show we fell in love with was the original, not the crappy new updates they keep adding.

So you would risk certain types lacking newer members for more diversity because of your personal nostalgic taste?

 

[Adamw92]

So you would risk certain types lacking newer members for more diversity because of your personal nostalgic taste?

Pretty much, most of them are just recycled versions of older generation Pokémon just as a different animal etc... and really random names. Don't get me wrong, there's still the odd few that are good but it just doesn't feel original or fresh.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Pretty much, most of them are just recycled versions of older generation Pokémon just as a different animal etc... and really random names. Don't get me wrong, there's still the odd few that are good but it just doesn't feel original or fresh.

You do realize that there's more than one species of the same animal right? If they only make one species per animal, then their creativity would be far worse than the average episode of the anime.

 

[Adamw92]

You do realize that there's more than one species of the same animal right? If they only make one species per animal, then their creativity would be far worse than the average episode of the anime.

Of course but we all have our own tastes and opinions and I don't find them any more creative or fresh with each new addition.

 

[Melody]

I feel like Dawn didn't really "take hold" immediately. It took some time. It did help that Dawn is, was, and always will be incredibly, incredibly cute. Like Cute enough to actually turn Ash's head.

Pearlshipping Headcanons Inside.

Spoiler:

But as the anime developed; it did become Glaringly Obvious that Dawn really did like Ash. There are canon moments in the anime, where she and he spend actual moments bonding with one another. Of course it's Pokemon and Ash is "Sharp as a bowl of Wet Rattata" when it comes to the way of the Ladies. So there's plenty of "OOF!" moments. But prior to Meeting Dawn; Ash had never before had a feminine companion who actually considered him equal. May and Misty both had horrible dispositions and ended up bonding with Ash in a very unromantic, and often mildly motherly way.

Dawn actually did feel love for Ash. Like genuine, from the bottom of her heart. It's all over the place in the Anime; in subtle, subtle ways only a Pearlshipper notices. But as we mention before; Ash is not a very bright bulb. He's more concerned with his Pokemon, and while he doesn't mean to actually seem like he actually cares more for his Pokemon than anyone else; he does just that. But that's understandable. He's not exactly well versed in interacting with young women. His mission is to achieve a goal; and inevitably his life partner has to be on the same wavelength. Dawn arguably usually is on the same wavelength. Her passion does match his when it comes to Pokemon and while they are different paths, Ash a trainer and Dawn a Coordinator; they get along and compliment one another well.

Dawn herself is also a complicated girl. She starts out and she doesn't really mesh well with Pokemon in General. With a Piplup, and Pachirisu giving her bad hair days every other day; it's a wonder she didn't quit 10 episodes in. In short she was a bit of a spoiled brat. Lots of people cite this as a negative, or a reason why she can't be for Ash as a lover; but that actually puts her on Ash's level properly. Ash's patience and kindness to her captured her attention pretty easily. Ash is an effortless nice guy when he's not focused on his Trainer tasks...and he actually puts on his maturity pretty well at first. This makes Dawn feel so much better and at ease with him. Of course eventually others join the party too...but for the most part the deed is done. Because Ash and Dawn spent time alone at least at first early on...they had a chance to bond without someone calling on Ash and picking on his childish qualities. Ash actually had a chance to shine and show his better side to her sooner, rather than later when it'd only make her feel motherly, as coming to knowing his immaturity first did with Misty and May.

Of course we know that as dense as Ash actually is; he does put her off in plenty of ways. I think this is actually plot armor; to keep the anime free of excess romance, which doesn't often appeal to it's target audience. If you strip away Ash's asinine moments of absolute ignorance of Dawn's feelings; you actually begin to notice that Ash is reciprocating those feelings of love to Dawn. In his own way he does care about her. He just doesn't know how to parse it or handle it, so he ignores it as much as he can...when he can. There are a few tender moments where Dawn is just beside herself in sadness or grief though that shine through when Ash actually offers a caring gesture as best as he knows how. Of course he's not very well educated there either...but normally he does what he knows he can.

Dawn's cuteness isn't the only factor; her personality did really mesh well with Ash's as well...and she actually shares much of Ash's viewpoints on Pokemon. She has to; she's a Coordinator really, and they take really good care of their Pokemon just as Ash does his own. Ash in that respect is a really unique trainer. If Ash hadn't been quite so inclined to win Leagues; he'd make a damn good Breeder or Professor's Assistant in and on the Lab working with and caring for Pokemon. But of course even then a journey, but a shorter one would have been necessary. Dawn is definitely very feminine though, and the ways she behaves does actually stir Ash to be protective of her when the situation and she allows or needs it. It's also clear that Dawn is a very girly girl; and she enjoys and embraces being girly, cute, vain, pretty and feminine. I know that people probably are groaning right now. She's very stereotypical. But that isn't a bad thing. Ash isn't sharp enough to respond to anything that isn't in a skirt and screaming for help like a damsel in distress. And Oh Boy...does Dawn end up in a lot of Distress.

 

[CidHazard]

LOL this thread has been completely derailed :D

I just don't understand why some fans think Ash/Satoshi is a loser... even though he's the Orange League Champion and the Battle Frontier Champion.

I don't understand the popularity of the show after Season 8, once the new dub takes over its just a completely different (and AWFUL) show, the dubs just don't match the characters and it's like they overexaggerate every movement and mannerism of the characters to match the dub and...just no. Plus the quality of the actual Pokemon starts going downhill in Generation 3. I may be one of the nostalgic fans but there's a reason we're nostalgic, the show we fell in love with was the original, not the crappy new updates they keep adding.

Are you criticizing the Show or the Pokemon designs?

XY probably has the most sakuga moments out of all the series combined, the quality of animation shown in the XY series easily trumps most shounen shows out there interns of overall animation quality. If it's story that's highly controversial right now: Some people still debate the Kalos League loss. But Story wise the show is decent to good I would say (Not that the original series had mind blowing stories anyway, most of them where good and decent as well) I do agree though that the dub's suck, as someone who primarily watches the show in japanese. I do think that the way they handled the dub is horrible, replacing some tracks with crappy ones, and making the characters sound dumber than they really are...

In terms of Pokemon Design that's subject to peoples taste really... For me The original pokemon designs where simple (some designes overly simple: some examples being Geodude and exeggcute) but memorable. You could say now most designs are more elabrate with some pokemon packing a lot of detail, but that really Isn't a bad thing. Gen 1,2,3 all had great pokemon designs, but not all of them where amazing or memorable just like gen 4,5,6. Nostalgia often blinds us because there is a special place in our hearts for those first pokemon. But, that doesn't mean everything after that is horrible or lower in quality.

 

[Adamw92]

Are you criticizing the Show or the Pokemon designs?

XY probably has the most sakuga moments out of all the series combined, the quality of animation shown in the XY series easily trumps most shounen shows out there interns of overall animation quality. If it's story that's highly controversial right now: Some people still debate the Kalos League loss. But Story wise the show is decent to good I would say (Not that the original series had mind blowing stories anyway, most of them where good and decent as well) I do agree though that the dub's suck, as someone who primarily watches the show in japanese. I do think that the way they handled the dub is horrible, replacing some tracks with crappy ones, and making the characters sound dumber than they really are...

In terms of Pokemon Design that's subject to peoples taste really... For me The original pokemon designs where simple (some designes overly simple: some examples being Geodude and exeggcute) but memorable. You could say now most designs are more elabrate with some pokemon packing a lot of detail, but that really Isn't a bad thing. Gen 1,2,3 all had great pokemon designs, but not all of them where amazing or memorable just like gen 4,5,6. Nostalgia often blinds us because there is a special place in our hearts for those first pokemon. But, that doesn't mean everything after that is horrible or lower in quality.

Honestly, it's a bit of both.

The updated animation does look great so I don't mind it but I think the way the way they handled the change-over to the new dub VA's just kind of sours the overall feel to the show. I agree that the designs are purely down to people's tastes and that's why I stated mine. Like you mentioned more detail isn't necessarily a bad thing but that's down to your own tastes while mine lean more towards the simpler designs, you know? I'm sure most generations hold a special place in many people's hearts based on certain Pokémon from each of those generations but just because I prefer Generations 1 and 2 doesn't mean I only like them because I'm blinded by nostalgia. I'm sure you weren't implying that as a way of negating my opinion but just simply stating that it does happen and that's fine but for me the earlier generations speak more to my tastes. So to me, there is a decline in quality and I'm sorry if I my opinion seemed as though i was stating it as fact, sometimes things just get lost in translation.

 

[CidHazard]

Honestly, it's a bit of both.

The updated animation does look great so I don't mind it but I think the way the way they handled the change-over to the new dub VA's just kind of sours the overall feel to the show. I agree that the designs are purely down to people's tastes and that's why I stated mine. Like you mentioned more detail isn't necessarily a bad thing but that's down to your own tastes while mine lean more towards the simpler designs, you know? I'm sure most generations hold a special place in many people's hearts based on certain Pokémon from each of those generations but just because I prefer Generations 1 and 2 doesn't mean I only like them because I'm blinded by nostalgia. I'm sure you weren't implying that as a way of negating my opinion but just simply stating that it does happen and that's fine but for me the earlier generations speak more to my tastes. So to me, there is a decline in quality and I'm sorry if I my opinion seemed as though i was stating it as fact, sometimes things just get lost in translation.

Nope definitely not trying to negate your opinion with that comment... Really people should like what they like, Pokemon is for everyone. You don't necessary hate something you don't like right? you can always think their neutral, or just fine, or not your cup of tea. but, sometimes people just assume too much, and as you said things just gets lost in translation.

It does sour the taste, especially since I think that Veronica Taylor was amazing as Ash(Please note that: this is an opinion of a guy who grew up on the japanese dub XD, It's only recently that I found out about Misty/Kasumi liking Ash/Satoshi in the dub LOL I thought that people was just shipping them :D). a quarter throughout season 9 I switched back to the japanese dubs and never watched the Eng dub again.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Nope definitely not trying to negate your opinion with that comment... Really people should like what they like, Pokemon is for everyone. You don't necessary hate something you don't like right? you can always think their neutral, or just fine, or not your cup of tea. but, sometimes people just assume too much, and as you said things just gets lost in translation.

That's debatable. I've seen Pokémon fans complaining about people getting to the fanbase after playing Pokémon GO, labeling them as not true Pokémon fans. This unfortunately applies to people who prefer certain generations like Adamw92 here who thinks every Pokémon after Gen 3 are awful (even though people have been waiting for a Koala Pokémon, Dolphin Pokémon, and Wolf Pokémon for years now).

I too agree that the dub stinks due to VAs being miscasted, almost all of the OST replaced, and the dialogue being incredibly cringeworthy to hear. It gets worse when I found this post at another forum:

The TPCi cast?

Unprofessionals.

Michele Knotz (Jessie, May) - Attacks fans who express their opinion that Rachael Lillis was the better Jessie/May, her boyfriend harasses and mudslings at Eric Stuart over a misquoted (Eric expressed relief that no one at Pokemon Worlds 2015 was hurt from two teens who had guns in their car trunk), and blocks anyone who attempts to reason with her. Kicked people out of her fanclub who didn't like her flaming those who didn't like her acting. Raged at the admins at Behind the Voice Actors to take down her image and her voice samples (they have since put them back on regardless). Also she closed her YouTube channel.

James Carter Cathcart (James, Meowth, Professor Oak, Gary Oak) - Went behind 4kids' back and accepted to jump ship from the company after TPCi offered him to continue his job (stealing the roles of James, Prof. Oak and Meowth). Basically a traitor. Signs up on Pokemon fan sites to stroke his own ego. Had the audacity to shit on Maddie Blaustein before she died. Good on you, m8. Fucking good on ya.

Sarah Natochenny (Ash Ketchum) - Promotes and smokes cigarettes. I can respect people's decisions but c'mon, it's not good and everyone knows it. The reasoning she quotes from her friend.. his reasoning is immature in itself. Says anyone who doesn't like her Ash is just a "haters gonna hate" person. C'mon man.

Bill Rogers (Brock) - Trolled Serebii when TPCi forced the 4Kids crew out to save money and put down fans who wanted the 4Kids crew to stay, and then years later in an interview with AnimeAmerica, he admitted he was lying then. TPCi also told him to say the 4Kids actors didn't want to dub the show anymore (k ima lie s'more for my job). Also lied about Tom Wayland still working on dubs/shows in New York when he doesn't do jack. He's one of those guys who looks nice but it isn't.

Tom Wayland (former TPCi director) - Accused of raping a woman. Was removed. As a director, he doesn't direct, he simply has the actors do what they like when in the recording booth. Professionalism!

These are the people who've replaced the 4kids cast.

Source:https://s13.zetaboards.com/Annotation_Station/topic/893524/14/

 

[CidHazard]

That's debatable. I've seen Pokémon fans complaining about people getting to the fanbase after playing Pokémon GO, labeling them as not true Pokémon fans. This unfortunately applies to people who prefer certain generations like Adamw92 here who thinks every Pokémon after Gen 3 are awful (even though people have been waiting for a Koala Pokémon, Dolphin Pokémon, and Wolf Pokémon for years now).

True, but you could say that about any entitled gamer. I think it's fine that Adamw92 doesn't like the pokemon after Gen 3, it doesn't diminish the appeal of the newer designs of the pokemon in any way. Also, I don't think that Adamw92 says that anyone who likes gen 4 and above are not true fans. (Not to say people like that don't exist... I know a person who is hardcore First Gen'er)

Isn't popplio a Sea Lion :D

I too agree that the dub stinks due to VAs being miscasted, almost all of the OST replaced, and the dialogue being incredibly cringeworthy to hear. It gets worse when I found this post at another forum:

I've watched an episode of XY dubbed and It was so painful, Ash sounded so stupid... a trainer of his caliber not knowing brave bird really... And yes I do thingk the dub is unbelievably cringeworthy.

In the Japanese dub they play the opening theme on important battles or when the main characters are about to turn the tide of a losing battle, Playing the OP's which are highly energetic and Upbeat (Mega Volt is one of the best Japanese Op's ever :D) gives the scene more impact and gives it a more epic feel. On the Eng dub they replace the op with silence... just watch XY episode 62 in jap and the dub, and compare the climax :D

Wow I wasn't aware of any of this though... Makes me want to dig a little deeper into this VA's thanks for the link.

 

[Bringmistyback]

I think her ship with zoey is unique think it's appealshipping
Would be cool if it was canon but this is Pokemon lol I dont think digimon would have the balls to do it

 

[Frozocrone]

I've watched an episode of XY dubbed and It was so painful, Ash sounded so stupid... a trainer of his caliber not knowing brave bird really... And yes I do thingk the dub is unbelievably cringeworthy.

In the Japanese dub they play the opening theme on important battles or when the main characters are about to turn the tide of a losing battle, Playing the OP's which are highly energetic and Upbeat (Mega Volt is one of the best Japanese Op's ever :D) gives the scene more impact and gives it a more epic feel. On the Eng dub they replace the op with silence... just watch XY episode 62 in jap and the dub, and compare the climax :D

Wow I wasn't aware of any of this though... Makes me want to dig a little deeper into this VA's thanks for the link.

Honestly any Pokémon dub is pretty bad. I only have a fondness of DP because it's the one I grew up with, but I would love to find subbed versions online.

Japanese voice actors pretty much love Pokemon, it's in their culture and stuff, that's why there's so much emotion. Not to mention, it's their work of art, so they're going to feel pride at producing some amazing animation and soundtracks for it, as well as making the voice acting fit the anime.

In contrast, the dub versions always seem to be in it for the money. I get that things can be lost in translation and that due to mouth movements, you'll have to make new mannerisms but come on, there is literally no effort put into it! The soundtrack is muted at times or even completely replaced to something that doesn't even fit it and the actors have no emotion in their voice.

 

[jjc927]

Sarah Natochenny (Ash Ketchum) - Promotes and smokes cigarettes. I can respect people's decisions but c'mon, it's not good and everyone knows it. The reasoning she quotes from her friend.. his reasoning is immature in itself. Says anyone who doesn't like her Ash is just a "haters gonna hate" person. C'mon man.

That would explain why he sounds older and has some roughness in his voice.

In contrast, the dub versions always seem to be in it for the money. I get that things can be lost in translation and that due to mouth movements, you'll have to make new mannerisms but come on, there is literally no effort put into it! The soundtrack is muted at times or even completely replaced to something that doesn't even fit it and the actors have no emotion in their voice.

Yes they do it for the paycheck, but Veronica Taylor sounds like she definitely loved doing the show and hated being replaced. However, I've seen Eric Stuart say in interviews that he took the job basically for the pay as a supplement to his music.