[Spoilers] I think it is pretty much confirmed that series is set in a different universe

[Videreludus]

Also saying that "Rica and sound director are just spreading rumors that will not be true." is definitely calling them liars.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Also saying that "Rica and sound director are just spreading rumors that will not be true." is definitely calling them liars.

Yeah, and unless there is direct evidence/proof that one can provide, like any shooting scripts that contradict what they later said about the filming of a scene (think Lucas claiming that Greedo always shot first in the 2012 Hollywood Reporter interview when the shooting script made by him made clear that Han did indeed shoot first, not Greedo), we shouldn't claim that they are liars. And if they say it's an AU, we have no other choice but to assume it is an AU, because they outrank us.

 

[Alexander18]

Unless you are the writer or director of the series, or heck, the head of the production team for the series, your views mean absolutely nothing here, since the only views that truly matter are those directly involved in the series, and if they say it's an AU, it's an AU, since their word is law here. Do I like the idea of an AU with Pokémon, no I do not, but it literally doesn't matter what I think or what I like, what matters is what the writers view it to be as they are essentially God regarding this.

And as far as the movie not being canon, please explain why they even bothered to make a tie-in manga showing Ash and Pikachu doing the final trial and having a flashback if it wasn't even canon? If it wasn't canon, no point in making the manga in the first place.

Actually my view do matter and you can knock off the attitude. There are lots of things canon that still got made. DBZ movies are not canon to the tv series. This new movie is not canon to SM anime. They can make what they want without it being canon.

I don't mind Ash losing in the Kalos League and I see hints of this being an alternative universe. I even said that I prefer this to be canon to the past series.

People only want to see what they want to see. This is canon and i am not changing my mind.

Unless the people in charge say otherwise, i am not believing in this alternate series rumors going around.

Also saying that "Rica and sound director are just spreading rumors that will not be true." is definitely calling them liars.

No it isn't. You are saying that. Not me.

Agree to disagree and move on already.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Actually my view do matter and you can knock off the attitude. There are lots of things canon that still got made. DBZ movies are not canon to the tv series. This new movie is not canon to SM anime. They can make what they want without it being canon.

Yeah, and those that do generally make sure to send a message that they aren't canon in any way by making them utterly divorced from continuity, like, for example, Ghost Babel from Metal Gear. And do I really have to remind you that the Pokémon anime =/= DBZ? The movies for the anime have been repeatedly canon up to this point, and they made no attempt at indicating it's not canon (ie, the writer doesn't say it's "alternate continuity" to Sun and Moon).

People only want to see what they want to see. This is canon and i am not changing my mind.

Unless the people in charge say otherwise, i am not believing in this alternate series rumors going around.

The sound director and Rica are pretty high up people, though. They are as close to official people as we're EVER going to get.

And for the record, if anything, I want SM and especially M20 to still be in continuity and not an alternate universe, but that's the thing, they aren't, period, even the guys up top said it.

And while I am admittedly irritated about the Kalos loss, and I am also irritated by the whole New School approach the series has gone, if the writers say it's canon to the original series, I'd begrudgingly accept it as canon to the original series no matter how much I dislike it, because I'm not the writers and I have no say regarding the series. In fact, if I were to have any say in the series, I'd probably go to their Japanese headquarters and forcibly take over by shoving the top brass off buildings, like what Starscream does. The writers repeatedly make it clear that their "fans" have no say in the making of the series. If we did, Misty would have been back a LONG time ago, and Ash certainly would have won any league a long time ago, maybe even fought the Elite 4. Think of the writers as totalitarian leaders for my viewpoint on them. And since the writers have made it very clear, as did the movie and more importantly that tie-in manga that Movie 20 is canon to Sun and Moon, that means Sun and Moon is an AU just as Movie 20 is.

 

[Alexander18]

And for the record, if anything, I want SM and especially M20 to still be in continuity and not an alternate universe, but that's the thing, they aren't, period, even the guys up top said it.

And while I am admittedly irritated about the Kalos loss, and I am also irritated by the whole New School approach the series has gone, if the writers say it's canon to the original series, I'd begrudgingly accept it as canon to the original series no matter how much I dislike it, because I'm not the writers and I have no say regarding the series. In fact, if I were to have any say in the series, I'd probably go to their Japanese headquarters and forcibly take over by shoving the top brass off buildings, like what Starscream does. The writers repeatedly make it clear that their "fans" have no say in the making of the series. If we did, Misty would have been back a LONG time ago, and Ash certainly would have won any league a long time ago, maybe even fought the Elite 4. Think of the writers as totalitarian leaders for my viewpoint on them. And since the writers have made it very clear, as did the movie and more importantly that tie-in manga that Movie 20 is canon to Sun and Moon, that means Sun and Moon is an AU just as Movie 20 is.

No it is not. SM series is canon and not an alternate series of the show. There is no evidence or enough of it to back that up. So until then, SM is canon to past seasons until further notice. Sorry but that is how it is.

 

[Videreludus]

Yeah, and unless there is direct evidence/proof that one can provide, like any shooting scripts that contradict what they later said about the filming of a scene (think Lucas claiming that Greedo always shot first in the 2012 Hollywood Reporter interview when the shooting script made by him made clear that Han did indeed shoot first, not Greedo), we shouldn't claim that they are liars. And if they say it's an AU, we have no other choice but to assume it is an AU, because they outrank us.

True, since they are part of the staff, what they say is definitely to take seriously.

Actually my view do matter and you can knock off the attitude. There are lots of things canon that still got made. DBZ movies are not canon to the tv series. This new movie is not canon to SM anime. They can make what they want without it being canon.


People only want to see what they want to see. This is canon and i am not changing my mind.

Unless the people in charge say otherwise, i am not believing in this alternate series rumors going around.


No it isn't. You are saying that. Not me.

Agree to disagree and move on already.

You called them liars by saying that they spread rumours.

Also you also said that there are no clues, Ash not knowing there are more Joys is definitely a clue, and there will be more.

 

[Frozocrone]

Him knowing past Pokémon is a clue SM is set in the same universe as OS up to XY, in particular Rotom having to clarify all the Alolan forms aren't what Ash is used to.

 

[Alexander18]

True, since they are part of the staff, what they say is definitely to take seriously.



You called them liars by saying that they spread rumours.

Also you also said that there are no clues, Ash not knowing there are more Joys is definitely a clue, and there will be more.

No i didn't. You are calling them liars, not me. That is not a clue. That means nothing. Stop trying to convince me. I am not going to be convince until the show proves it to me.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Videreludus]

Him knowing past Pokémon is a clue SM is set in the same universe as OS up to XY, in particular Rotom having to clarify all the Alolan forms aren't what Ash is used to.

A story rebooted doesn't need to be told from the beginning, look the Incredible Hulk movie. He can still know past Pokémon and being a different Ash.

No i didn't. You are calling them liars, not me. That is not a clue. That means nothing. Stop trying to convince me. I am not going to be convince until the show proves it to me.

Agree to disagree.

You are making no sense, you're the one who said they are spreading rumours and I'm the one who called them liars, yeah right.

That means alot, if in the past Ash found it normal to exist multiple Joys, how come he found it strange this time?

 

[Alexander18]

A story rebooted doesn't need to be told from the beginning, look the Incredible Hulk movie. He can still know past Pokémon and being a different Ash.


You are making no sense, you're the one who said they are spreading rumours and I'm the one who called them liars, yeah right.

That means alot, if in the past Ash found it normal to exist multiple Joys, how come he found it strange this time?

Because he obviously forgot. Just like he forgot that he met some legendaries he already met. And no, it does not mean a lot. Ash is forgetful. Everyone should know that by now.

 

[Videreludus]

Because he obviously forgot. Just like he forgot that he met some legendaries he already met. And no, it does not mean a lot. Ash is forgetful. Everyone should know that by now.

This is not like when he uses his Pokedex to scan Pokémon that he already saw. It is understandable that he wants more information of them.

But after 7 regions, simply forgetting that there are multiple Joys working in Pokémon Center makes no sense.

He didn't forget in the other regions so he shouldn't have forgotten in this one aswell.

 

[Alexander18]

This is not like when he uses his Pokedex to scan Pokémon that he already saw. It is understandable that he wants more information of them.

But after 7 regions, simply forgetting that there are multiple Joys working in Pokémon Center makes no sense.

He didn't forget in the other regions so he shouldn't have forgotten in this one aswell.

We talking of a trainer who lose 6 regional leagues, releases his powerhouses and has pikachu use an electric attack on a trainers torterra. Pretty sure forgetting about multiple joys or forgetting other characters is not that farfetch'd.

 

[Videreludus]

We talking of a trainer who lose 6 regional leagues, releases his powerhouses and has pikachu use an electric attack on a trainers torterra. Pretty sure forgetting about multiple joys or forgetting other characters is not that farfetch'd.

Forgetting about ground type Pokémon being immune to electric types can happen since Ash doesn't fights one every time.

Also Ash was more competent in DP and XY(Z) series.

He sees Joys almost every day. It is Farfetched to forget them.

You talk like it would be easy to win a League. Ash is not the only one who won Badges. In real life it would probably be difficult for you to win a League.

 

[Alexander18]

Forgetting about ground type Pokémon being immune to electric types can happen since Ash doesn't fights one every time.

Also Ash was more competent in DP and XY(Z) series.

He sees Joys almost every day. It is Farfetched to forget them.

You talk like it would be easy to win a League. Ash is not the only one who won Badges. In real life it would probably be difficult for you to win a League.

Forgetting is still forgetting. Ash obvious forgot the multiple joys this time. There is no hint or clue to anything. All it proves that ash is forgetful. I managed to win all 7 region leagues so obviously ash is doing something wrong.

 

[Videreludus]

Forgetting is still forgetting. Ash obvious forgot the multiple joys this time. There is no hint or clue to anything. All it proves that ash is forgetful. I managed to win all 7 region leagues so obviously ash is doing something wrong.

Ever compete in a real world championship? It's easy to win the League against computer controlled elite fours only. Ash has to pass a tournament first.

And you need to have amnesia to forget something that you see alot like Nurse Joys or Officer Jennys, something that Ash doesn't have

 

[Alexander18]

Ever compete in a real world championship? It's easy to win the League against computer controlled elite fours only. Ash has to pass a tournament first.

And you need to have amnesia to forget something that you see alot like Nurse Joys or Officer Jennys, something that Ash doesn't have

No such thing as real world championship. And no, ash doesn't need to have amnesia to forget joys and jennys but he could have. SM ash is gonna be the same and lose the league as usual. Nothing new apart from trials instead of gyms and grand trials.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

No such thing as real world championship. And no, ash doesn't need to have amnesia to forget joys and jennys but he could have. SM ash is gonna be the same and lose the league as usual. Nothing new apart from trials instead of gyms and grand trials.

Ash in Orange Islands, Johto, AG, DP, BW, and XY definitely remembered the Nurse Joys and Officer Jennys being multiples. This is definitely not something he'd just "forget". Ergo, more likely than not, especially after what M20 and Rica indicated, it's more likely to be an AU (and I actually hate that likelihood, as I always hated mass retcons).

And as far as your last point, no, SM Ash isn't going to lose the league as usual because there is no league for him to lose. Or have you forgotten that in this series, Ash is basically going all Emperor's New School on us and not even challenging gyms? Or how in the games, we literally HAVE to build the league, something that's clearly not the case here since he's, you know, a school student in this series.

 

[Alexander18]

Ash in Orange Islands, Johto, AG, DP, BW, and XY definitely remembered the Nurse Joys and Officer Jennys being multiples. This is definitely not something he'd just "forget". Ergo, more likely than not, especially after what M20 and Rica indicated, it's more likely to be an AU (and I actually hate that likelihood, as I always hated mass retcons).

And as far as your last point, no, SM Ash isn't going to lose the league as usual because there is no league for him to lose. Or have you forgotten that in this series, Ash is basically going all Emperor's New School on us and not even challenging gyms? Or how in the games, we literally HAVE to build the league, something that's clearly not the case here since he's, you know, a school student in this series.

No. Rica and M20 does not indicate anything. Assuming they do gets people disappointed. It is not likely either. There will never be an alternate universe/timeline. SM ash is the same ash from kalos onwards.

As for the league, the anime is not the games. Ash can challenge the league if he wants to. Ash can forget things and forgetting about multiple jenny/joys is one them. It is possible to forget them.

 

[Frozocrone]

Ash in Orange Islands, Johto, AG, DP, BW, and XY definitely remembered the Nurse Joys and Officer Jennys being multiples. This is definitely not something he'd just "forget". Ergo, more likely than not, especially after what M20 and Rica indicated, it's more likely to be an AU (and I actually hate that likelihood, as I always hated mass retcons).

And as far as your last point, no, SM Ash isn't going to lose the league as usual because there is no league for him to lose. Or have you forgotten that in this series, Ash is basically going all Emperor's New School on us and not even challenging gyms? Or how in the games, we literally HAVE to build the league, something that's clearly not the case here since he's, you know, a school student in this series.

They did the same thing in BW, Ash gets confused over meeting a different Nurse Joy.

In addition the Nurse Joys from OS to DP were largely the same outside some obvious differences such as OI.

There is nothing wrong with getting confused about Nurse Joy being different in each city when he goes to a new region (specifically those based off countries that are not named Japan).

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

No. Rica and M20 does not indicate anything. Assuming they do gets people disappointed. It is not likely either. There will never be an alternate universe/timeline. SM ash is the same ash from kalos onwards.

As for the league, the anime is not the games. Ash can challenge the league if he wants to. Ash can forget things and forgetting about multiple jenny/joys is one them. It is possible to forget them.

If there was going to be a league for Alola, they would have mentioned it by now, especially given the situation in the games. Instead, even CoroCoro indicated that Ash's main goal was just to pass school, not challenge a league.

They did the same thing in BW, Ash gets confused over meeting a different Nurse Joy.

In addition the Nurse Joys from OS to DP were largely the same outside some obvious differences such as OI.

There is nothing wrong with getting confused about Nurse Joy being different in each city when he goes to a new region (specifically those based off countries that are not named Japan).

Okay, in that case, I'll withdraw comment, especially regarding evidence about that being AU evidence. The M20 thing and Rica thing still qualifies, though, especially when the former had a tie in manga and that, unlike most other anime, the movies in this case actually have been canon to the anime, and besides which that tie-in manga made it pretty clear it's part of SM Anime anyways, and as far as Rica, she's part of the anime staff due to being the voice actress for Ash, and besides which she indicated that the sound director said pretty much the same thing, and since the latter is definitely part of the production team, and we're not, we have to defer to them whether we like it or not (and as for me, I most certainly don't like that news, of course, if they said it's not an AU, I'd still not like it, because it's bad news either way, but still...).