I wish to obliterate a friend's team. [X/Y] (Resolved)

AdamEternal

AdamEternal

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    My team has been planned, this is resolved. Thanks to everyone who helped.

    [S-HIGHLIGHT]I've beat my friend named Robin before. However, he claimed that the team he used wasn't a proper fighting team. And I believe him, because the team I used wasn't a proper fighting team either. But they were by no means weak. I told him about the basics of the Smogon OU rules, and we abide by them. We often play Double battles. A few advantages I have over him is
    a) He can't use his computer much, so he doesn't have the knowledge I have.
    b) He can't connect to the internet using his 3DS, so no GTS for him.
    The one Pokemon I had good trouble with, and therefor he will probably bring with him onto his new team, (and the only one I remember,) is his Ariados. I'd like to counter that ****. (The Goodra is the anti-Ariados.) Here's my current team idea I put together using Showdown. Any help to improve it would be great.

    Spoiler:


    Team update 1:
    Spoiler:


    Team update 2 (final):
    Spoiler:
    [/S-HIGHLIGHT]
     
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    You shouldn't use physical moves on your Shuckle, as it's way too weak. Try a full support set with Toxic/Sticky Web/Encore/Stealth Rock.

    Use SolarBeam, Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast or Earthquake on your Zard Y.

    Goodra should have Dragon Tail over Acid Armor.

    Ice Beam or Seismic Toss > Focus Blast Blissey.

    Choice Band > Persim Berry Dragonite, and try Dragon Claw and Fire Punch over Iron Tail and Dragon Rush. I'd also question Stone Edge but eh.

    Alakazam: Substitute > Psychic, Magic Guard > Synchronize and give it a Life Orb or a Sash.
     
    Also, Assault Vest or Leftovers are better items for Goodra. Rocky Helmet's no good on Blissey because she can't take physical hits well. Dragon Dance is another option for Dragonite in place of Stone Edge to boost its damage output, and the Speed increase makes it harder to revenge kill.

    What the hell does a Rowap Berry do though?
     
    Zekrom said:
    What the hell does a Rowap Berry do though?
    Click to expand...
    "If holder is hit by a special move, attacker loses 1/8 of its max HP. Single use." - Showdown, 2014
     
    I think Lum Berry is worth considering over Persim, because it also nullifies burns and paralysis which are even worse than confusion. (I know you have Heal Bell, but I still think it's superior to Persim.)

    For Blissey and Shuckle, I think lefties are some of the best items for them; but if you have limited supplies, Sitrus Berries are a good substitute.

    AmourPearlShipper's support Shuckle is its best set for singles, with Mental Herb. I'm not sure if it translates well into doubles though... Perhaps something involving Guard Split and/or Power Split?
     
    To add to the above:

    Goodra is one of the best Assault Vest users out there:
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast
    -Sludge Wave/Thunderbolt
    -Muddy Water/Earthquake
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 240 HP/252 SAtk/16 Spe
    Item: Assault Vest
    Ability: Sap Sipper/Gooey

    Shuckle's offenses are downright pathetic, making offensive sets not worth using. It's best off utilizing entry hazards to support the team:
    -Sticky Web
    -Stealth Rock
    -Encore
    -Infestation/Toxic/Knock Off
    Nature: Bold/Impish
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SDef
    Item: Mental Herb
    Ability: Sturdy

    Why is Charizard Y running 4 Fire moves? It has a wide move pool and you're pretty much wasting it. I think Charizard X is better in this case, as Charizard Y teams are very specialized:
    -Dragon Dance
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost/Earthquake
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
    Item: Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze

    or
    -Flare Blitz/Earthquake
    -Dragon Claw/Earthquake
    -Will-o-Wisp
    -Roost
    Nature: Careful
    EVs: 248 HP/180 SDef/80 Spe
    Item: Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze

    or
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake/Substitute
    -Roost
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
    Item: Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze

    or
    -Swords Dance
    -Tailwind
    -Flare Blitz
    -Outrage
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spe
    Item: Charizardite X
    Ability: Blaze

    As the above guys mentioned, Focus Blast is pretty much a waste on Blissey. The below set is the typical way to use it, and if you really must use offensive moves on Blissey, Seismic Toss or Flamethrower are better options; the former hits the opponent for consistent damage, while the latter hits Ferrothorn and Scizor hard. Both moves are also 100% accurate:
    -Aromatherapy/Heal Bell
    -Seismic Toss/Flamethrower
    -Soft-Boiled
    -Thunder Wave/Toxic
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 SDef
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    Dragonite is horribly walled by Steels. Just putting that out there. This team needs Rapid Spin/Defog support, since you have some Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon:

    Tentacruel:
    -Scald
    -Acid Spray
    -Sludge Bomb/Knock Off
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 252 HP/224 Def/32 Spe
    Item: Black Sludge
    Ability: Liquid Ooze

    Starmie:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Psyshock/Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    or
    -Scald
    -Reflect Type
    -Rapid Spin
    -Recover
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 248 HP/20 Def/16 SDef/224 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure

    Mandibuzz:
    -Foul Play
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind/Taunt
    -Defog
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/108 SDef/16 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Overcoat

    Excadrill:
    -Earthquake
    -Iron Head
    -Rock Slide
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe (Jolly) or 120 HP/136 Atk/252 SDef (Adamant)
    Item: Choice Scarf (Jolly)/Assault Vest (Adamant)
    Ability: Mold Breaker

    Latios:
    -Draco Meteor
    -Psyshock
    -Surf/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power (Fighting)
    -Defog
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb

    Given Alakazam's extreme frailty, it should be holding a Focus Sash. It should only come in after a teammate has been KOed:
    -Psychic
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Dazzling Gleam/Hidden Power (Ice/Fire)/Thunder Wave
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Magic Guard

    The Rowap and Jaboca Berries aren't useful, tbh.
     
    I have to ask where you got a rowap berry from. Seriously, wheeere the hell

    And taking a quick glance and hearing that you're into doubles - I'd sayyyy, try and get Air Slash on Char Y if you can. Actually consider Struggle Bug on shuckle. It's not gonna kill anything that's not at 5% health and four times weak to bug - BUT in doubles it hits both opponents, dropping both their special attack stats by one stage, and does a teeny bit of damage, breaking focus sashes and sturdy's and the like. It'll also prevent him from taunting shuckle should he know what that move does.

    Consider maybe fire blast / punch or earthquake on dragonite to take advantage of the potential dragon dance boosts, the sun from Char Y it may benefit from, and earthquakes viability in doubles.

    ALSO big point - put protect on at least one or two pokes (probably offensive ones) for doubles. When he has a surefire KO from a faster pokemon on one of yours at still relevant HP ranges, make sure you block it and try and put him in the dane-juh zone with another attack to throw him off balance.

    Good luck and share that battle video if you make this happen!
     
    Polar Spectrum said:
    I have to ask where you got a rowap berry from. Seriously, wheeere the hell

    And taking a quick glance and hearing that you're into doubles - I'd sayyyy, try and get Air Slash on Char Y if you can. Actually consider Struggle Bug on shuckle. It's not gonna kill anything that's not at 5% health and four times weak to bug - BUT in doubles it hits both opponents, dropping both their special attack stats by one stage, and does a teeny bit of damage, breaking focus sashes and sturdy's and the like. It'll also prevent him from taunting shuckle should he know what that move does.

    Consider maybe fire blast / punch or earthquake on dragonite to take advantage of the potential dragon dance boosts, the sun from Char Y it may benefit from, and earthquakes viability in doubles.

    ALSO big point - put protect on at least one or two pokes (probably offensive ones) for doubles. When he has a surefire KO from a faster pokemon on one of yours at still relevant HP ranges, make sure you block it and try and put him in the dane-juh zone with another attack to throw him off balance.

    Good luck and share that battle video if you make this happen!
    Click to expand...
    Air Slash isn't worth it on Charizard Y because sun-boosted Fire Blasts out damage it, even on super effective targets:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr in Sun: 217-256 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    If Shuckle must run offensive moves, it has to be either Infestation to trap targets, then switch to an appropriate teammate, or Knock Off to remove items.
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    Air Slash isn't worth it on Charizard Y because sun-boosted Fire Blasts out damage it, even on super effective targets:

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr in Sun: 217-256 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    If Shuckle must run offensive moves, it has to be either Infestation to trap targets, then switch to an appropriate teammate, or Knock Off to remove items.
    Click to expand...

    Flash Fire, Fire Resists, rain dance or drizzlers. Do those calcs - and again in absence of a solid support option for the turn in a double battle, Shuckle's most beneficial move may be to drop Sp Atk on either / both opponents, and put at least 1 damage on them to break focus sashes / sturdy. Hitting both opponents in a double battle, especially with a 100% stat drop is invaluable.
     
    Shrew said:
    Perhaps something involving Guard Split and/or Power Split?
    Click to expand...
    Ooooh... I didn't think of Power Split! My Shuckle is extremely weak in Atk and Sp.Atk, so that'll bring Robin's Pokemon down hugely. Thanks!

    PlatinumDude said:
    I think Charizard X is better in this case, as Charizard Y teams are very specialized
    Click to expand...
    There's a reason I chose to use Charizard Y over Charizard X. A Mega Charizard Y special sweeper's special fire-type moves obliterate. Or so my calculations say.

    PlatinumDude said:
    Dragonite is horribly walled by Steels. Just putting that out there. This team needs Rapid Spin/Defog support, since you have some Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon
    Click to expand...
    Ooooo... I'll replace Dragonite. I'll take your Starmie suggestion.

    PlatinumDude said:
    Starmie:
    -Hydro Pump
    -Psyshock/Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Rapid Spin
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Click to expand...

    PlatinumDude said:
    Given Alakazam's extreme frailty, it should be holding a Focus Sash. It should only come in after a teammate has been KOed
    Click to expand...
    Focus Sash equipped, and I'll keep that tip in mind.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    I have to ask where you got a rowap berry from. Seriously, wheeere the hell
    Click to expand...
    I haven't gotten one yet, just building my team on Showdown until I've got a good team going, then I'll try to recreate it in Y.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    And taking a quick glance and hearing that you're into doubles - I'd sayyyy, try and get Air Slash on Char Y if you can.
    Click to expand...
    I'm thinking more Air Cutter. 15 less power, but there's that hit-all-opponents feature that I think I'll like. And also high crit ratio, that's a cherry on top.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    Actually consider Struggle Bug on shuckle. It's not gonna kill anything that's not at 5% health and four times weak to bug - BUT in doubles it hits both opponents, dropping both their special attack stats by one stage, and does a teeny bit of damage, breaking focus sashes and sturdy's and the like. It'll also prevent him from taunting shuckle should he know what that move does.
    Click to expand...
    I think I may finally understand why some people want to do a teeny bit of damage to break anti-1HKOs instead of just going all-out. Because they may have a move that does more damage the less HP. But I know Robin, he ain't that strategic.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    ALSO big point - put protect on at least one or two pokes (probably offensive ones) for doubles. When he has a surefire KO from a faster pokemon on one of yours at still relevant HP ranges, make sure you block it and try and put him in the dane-juh zone with another attack to throw him off balance.
    Click to expand...
    I managed to get one onto my Alakazam.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    Good luck and share that battle video if you make this happen!
    Click to expand...
    I'll try to remember that. :)


    I'm updating the OP now with what I got so far.
     
    AdamEternal said:
    Ooooh... I didn't think of Power Split! My Shuckle is extremely weak in Atk and Sp.Atk, so that'll bring Robin's Pokemon down hugely. Thanks!


    There's a reason I chose to use Charizard Y over Charizard X. A Mega Charizard Y special sweeper's special fire-type moves obliterate. Or so my calculations say.


    Ooooo... I'll replace Dragonite. I'll take your Starmie suggestion.




    Focus Sash equipped, and I'll keep that tip in mind.


    I haven't gotten one yet, just building my team on Showdown until I've got a good team going, then I'll try to recreate it in Y.


    I'm thinking more Air Cutter. 15 less power, but there's that hit-all-opponents feature that I think I'll like. And also high crit ratio, that's a cherry on top.


    I think I may finally understand why some people want to do a teeny bit of damage to break anti-1HKOs instead of just going all-out. Because they may have a move that does more damage the less HP. But I know Robin, he ain't that strategic.


    I managed to get one onto my Alakazam.


    I'll try to remember that. :)


    I'm updating the OP now with what I got so far.
    Click to expand...
    There are reasons why Charizard Y teams need loads of support for Charizard Y to excel. Here's a general checklist:
    -Pursuit users to eliminate Lati@s, who resist everything that Charizard Y throws at them, except for Dragon Pulse, a rarely seen move on it
    -Fighting Pokemon that resist Steel to deal with Bisharp better
    -Flying spam checks, as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and (Choice Scarf) Staraptor cause problems
    -Defog/Rapid Spin support, as Charizard Y's Stealth Rock weakness is even more crippling that Charizard X's.
    -bulky Ground Pokemon to handle Rock and Electric Pokemon

    In the end, Charizard X's versatility gives it the edge over Charizard Y's raw power.

    Do you have any of these? If you don't, use Charizard X.

    Polar Spectrum said:
    Flash Fire, Fire Resists, rain dance or drizzlers. Do those calcs - and again in absence of a solid support option for the turn in a double battle, Shuckle's most beneficial move may be to drop Sp Atk on either / both opponents, and put at least 1 damage on them to break focus sashes / sturdy. Hitting both opponents in a double battle, especially with a 100% stat drop is invaluable.
    Click to expand...

    Don't assume that this team is for doubles, as any team posted will be assumed to be singles, unless mentioned otherwise.

    While it's true that Charizard Y gets boned as Drizzletoed switches in, Fire Blast, Solar Beam and Focus Blast give it good enough coverage, making Air Slash unnecessary. Charizard can't do everything by itself; it requires support to take out its counters, especially Flash Fire users and Fire resistances. Pre-Mega Houndoom gets smacked by Focus Blast. Other than Chandelure and Houndoom, Flash Fire isn't seen in OU.
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    There are reasons why Charizard Y teams need loads of support for Charizard Y to excel. Here's a general checklist:
    Click to expand...
    I'll make my Starmie Mega Char Y support. Thanks for the tip.

    PlatinumDude said:
    -Pursuit users to eliminate Lati@s, who resist everything that Charizard Y throws at them, except for Dragon Pulse, a rarely seen move on it
    Click to expand...
    Like I said, my friend Robin can't get online with his 3DS, so the only way for him to get Pokemon from anyone else is by local trade. And even then, I doubt he'd ask (AKA I know he won't) my sister for a Lati@s. He's not that great, and he probably wouldn't do research, even if he did have the chance.

    PlatinumDude said:
    -Fighting Pokemon that resist Steel to deal with Bisharp better
    Click to expand...
    Looked it up, Starmie resists steel, and if I it has max HP and Attack, it's hidden power would be fighting, which would be super effective against Bisharp.

    PlatinumDude said:
    -Flying spam checks, as Talonflame, Mega Pinsir and (Choice Scarf) Staraptor cause problems
    Click to expand...
    Put Thunder on Starmie.

    PlatinumDude said:
    -Defog/Rapid Spin support, as Charizard Y's Stealth Rock weakness is even more crippling that Charizard X's.
    Click to expand...
    Starmie already had that.

    PlatinumDude said:
    -bulky Ground Pokemon to handle Rock and Electric Pokemon
    Click to expand...
    Starmie would need perfect IVs in HP, Attack, Defense, and Speed too get Hidden Power Ground. I think that would be more important, but harder to get.

    PlatinumDude said:
    Don't assume that this team is for doubles, as any team posted will be assumed to be singles, unless mentioned otherwise.
    Click to expand...
    AdamEternal said:
    We often play Double battles.
    Click to expand...
    Said it in the OP.
     
    AdamEternal said:
    Looked it up, Starmie resists steel, and if I it has max HP and Attack, it's hidden power would be fighting, which would be super effective against Bisharp.
    Click to expand...

    Starmie is dead meat against Bisharp, honestly. Even one with 252 defense EVs is almost always OHKO'd by Knock Off if Stealth Rock is on the field while other sets are completely obliterated by Sucker Punch.

    If anything, really, one Pokemon, let alone a Starmie, isn't enough to cover the general checklist of support that Charizard-Y needs. I'd recommend putting Venusaur or Chesnaught in there somewhere since they can both compliment Charizard-Y and Starmie nicely.
     
    Zeffy said:
    Starmie is dead meat against Bisharp, honestly. Even one with 252 defense EVs is almost always OHKO'd by Knock Off if Stealth Rock is on the field while other sets are completely obliterated by Sucker Punch.

    If anything, really, one Pokemon, let alone a Starmie, isn't enough to cover the general checklist of support that Charizard-Y needs. I'd recommend putting Venusaur or Chesnaught in there somewhere since they can both compliment Charizard-Y and Starmie nicely.
    Click to expand...

    It is a great idea to have grass, fire, and water types in your team. Which Pokemon do you think I should sacrifice for a bulky venusaur? Or is there any other grass-type Pokemon and their builds you think would be good? And keep in mind what I couldn't fit into Starmie. I also don't like Hidden Power.
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    Don't assume that this team is for doubles, as any team posted will be assumed to be singles, unless mentioned otherwise.
    Click to expand...

    -

    AdamEternal said:
    I've beat my friend named Robin before. However, he claimed that the team he used wasn't a proper fighting team. And I believe him, because the team I used wasn't a proper fighting team either. But they were by no means weak. I told him about the basics of the Smogon OU rules, and we abide by them. We often play Double battles. A few advantages I have over him is ...
    Click to expand...


    So uhh - yeh... Maybe... Maybe it's better to actually read into people's posts before giving advice... rather than assume anything.

    What I was sayin' heh. Good luck Adam, if you want to test it out, I'd be glad to do some casual doubles matches with ye.
     
    AdamEternal said:
    It is a great idea to have grass, fire, and water types in your team. Which Pokemon do you think I should sacrifice for a bulky venusaur? Or is there any other grass-type Pokemon and their builds you think would be good? And keep in mind what I couldn't fit into Starmie. I also don't like Hidden Power.
    Click to expand...

    Since this is mainly a doubles team, the above support I mentioned isn't really that necessary. Entry hazards are also nowhere to be found on doubles teams, since switching is very rarely done.

    Charizard Y pairs well with Venusaur best, as the latter has Chlorophyll to speed up in sun. In doubles, Charizard Y should use:
    -Heat Wave
    -Solar Beam
    -Overheat/Fire Blast/Ancient Power/Focus Blast
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 244 SAtk/12 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Charizardite Y

    Venusaur should use:
    -Giga Drain/Solar Beam
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Sleep Powder
    -Protect
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 180 HP/252 SAtk/76 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
     
    PlatinumDude said:
    Since this is mainly a doubles team, the above support I mentioned isn't really that necessary. Entry hazards are also nowhere to be found on doubles teams, since switching is very rarely done.

    Charizard Y pairs well with Venusaur best, as the latter has Chlorophyll to speed up in sun. In doubles, Charizard Y should use:
    -Heat Wave
    -Solar Beam
    -Overheat/Fire Blast/Ancient Power/Focus Blast
    -Protect
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 244 SAtk/12 SDef/252 Spe
    Item: Charizardite Y

    Venusaur should use:
    -Giga Drain/Solar Beam
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Sleep Powder
    -Protect
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 180 HP/252 SAtk/76 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Click to expand...

    I donnnn't think he has access to a hidden ability Bulbasaur/Venusaur mate....
     
    Polar Spectrum said:
    I donnnn't think he has access to a hidden ability Bulbasaur/Venusaur mate....
    Click to expand...
    PlatinumDude said:
    He can just ask someone in the Trade Corner, or ask someone who has a Grass Friend Safari with Ivysaur in it via the Friend Code exchange.
    Click to expand...

    Please forget about accessibility. As long as I can get something without hacking, count it in. I'll figure out how to get a full team of arceus' whatever I need later.

    Also, after some test runs in Showdown, I noticed that my Blissey isn't of much use. I think I'll replace that with Venusaur. I like the Starmie though, I think I'll keep it.

    Updating now. Tomorrow I have to get back to school, and I won't be online. So it would be nice if you could let me know if you think it's good enough, so that by next school week I should have a team going.


    [EDIT] There has been no response while I was offline. That was four days. I'll assume that my team's good enough. Thanks to everyone who helped. This is now resolved!
     
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