Is Ash a disappointment?

[Rajas20]

I'm 90% sure if they create the Alolan league, Ash will make the finals and his Lycanroc will lose to Silavlly in the finals. I hate that idea but I feel they are foreshadowing it as being the hurdle Ash cannot cross. Pikachu would beat him though imo.

 

[Alexander18]

Doesn't matter if he got Top 2 once, he STILL needs to win. And it's not like once he wins, he must automatically cream the Elite 4 and Champion. My proposition should satiate your issues against it: Even if he wins, he can still lose against the first Elite 4, then progressively go forward increasing how many Elite 4 members get defeated by Ash each region before he eventually becomes Champion.



Ah, no, considering he made VERY vocal what his goal was, he most certainly needs to accomplish his goal on-screen. The Adventure Continues style endings generally only work if the primary goal is accomplished and they like the activity that got them to the goal so much they just felt they can continue, like for example, how in Monk, Adrian Monk in the ending to the TV series continued to solve mysteries even after his primary objective, solving Trudy Monk's murder, was accomplished. And the closest they can get to having Ash actually accomplish his goal is by winning a league.

I don't think so. Winning a league is NOT mandatory. Ash does NOT need to win. He will never be champion. He shouldn't reach the Elite Four at all.

If he keeps getting the top 2 or going down a rank, Then that means he's getting no closer to his goal and that means that the whole region he went though was pointless to him, Because it didn't help him in anyway get to his goal.

He would still had an adventure with new friends and new pokemon captures. Doing the league is just extra. Ash should not win leagues.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I don't think so. Winning a league is NOT mandatory. Ash does NOT need to win. He will never be champion. He shouldn't reach the Elite Four at all.



He would still had an adventure with new friends and new pokemon captures. Doing the league is just extra. Ash should not win leagues.

Ash has made it VERY clear in multiple regions, over 20 years now in fact, that he has a goal besides adventuring for the sake of it, that he desires to become the World's Greatest Pok?mon Master. And DP made it very clear that becoming Champion Master is, if not the endgoal, then certainly a step in the right direction.

If they really wanted Ash to just have adventures with his friends and making Pok?mon captures for the sake of it with no goal in sight besides that as you seem to be implying, they would have depicted Ash the same way they depict Sonic in the end of Sonic Heroes.

To put it another way: Think of it like Punch-Out, or the Rocky movies. Those stories have a definite end-goal, and Ash needs to win the league and beat the Elite 4 to actually achieve his goal.

 

[Alexander18]

Ash has made it VERY clear in multiple regions, over 20 years now in fact, that he has a goal besides adventuring for the sake of it, that he desires to become the World's Greatest Pok?mon Master. And DP made it very clear that becoming Champion Master is, if not the endgoal, then certainly a step in the right direction.

If they really wanted Ash to just have adventures with his friends and making Pok?mon captures for the sake of it with no goal in sight besides that as you seem to be implying, they would have depicted Ash the same way they depict Sonic in the end of Sonic Heroes.

To put it another way: Think of it like Punch-Out, or the Rocky movies. Those stories have a definite end-goal, and Ash needs to win the league and beat the Elite 4 to actually achieve his goal.

Unless the writers surprise us with an actual league win, i can not believe Ash will a league. I am sorry but that is how i feel.

You are all free to believe that he could win a league. Just don't expect me to. After 6 leagues in a row, i don't expect any league win in the future.

 

[SH60]

Unless the writers surprise us with an actual league win, i can not believe Ash will a league. I am sorry but that is how i feel.

You are all free to believe that he could win a league. Just don't expect me to. After 6 leagues in a row, i don't expect any league win in the future.

Then why give Ash the goal to becoming the pokemon master if he's never going to win a league? At some point he's going to win and how is winning the league not mandatory? When that's the first step to becoming the pokemon master.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Then why give Ash the goal to becoming the pokemon master if he's never going to win a league? At some point he's going to win and how is winning the league not mandatory? When that's the first step to becoming the pokemon master.

Yeah. If they didn't even want Ash to win the league at all, they shouldn't have given him a goal that practically REQUIRED him to win a league (especially when winning a league is the closest the show has to an actual definition to that goal).

 

[Alexander18]

Then why give Ash the goal to becoming the pokemon master if he's never going to win a league? At some point he's going to win and how is winning the league not mandatory? When that's the first step to becoming the pokemon master.

If he was going to win a pokemon league then he would have done it by now. Sad to say that Ash had his chance but it is gone. I can not see him winning any league but i do see him having an adventure in every new region.

 

[SH60]

If he was going to win a pokemon league then he would have done it by now. Sad to say that Ash had his chance but it is gone. I can not see him winning any league but i do see him having an adventure in every new region.

That is not the main reason why he goes to a new region his goal to to become a pokemon master and the first step for that is to win a league. If the point was for him was to go on adventures then don't give him a goal. When you give your MC a goal then we would think said MC would make steps to complete that goal like win a league, but for some reason they won't let him do that.

 

[Alexander18]

That is not the main reason why he goes to a new region his goal to to become a pokemon master and the first step for that is to win a league. If the point was for him was to go on adventures then don't give him a goal. When you give your MC a goal then we would think said MC would make steps to complete that goal like win a league, but for some reason they won't let him do that.

I don't want ash to win the league anymore. Especially if he is gonna release his powerhouses right after. Ditching his only fully evolved water starter and psuedo legendary made me decide that Ash no longer deserves a league win.

It doesn't matter if it is his goal. He does not deserve it. Not anymore. After what he pulled in kalos, i be grateful to the writers that he won't win at all.

 

[SH60]

I don't want ash to win the league anymore. Especially if he is gonna release his powerhouses right after. Ditching his only fully evolved water starter and psuedo legendary made me decide that Ash no longer deserves a league win.

It doesn't matter if it is his goal. He does not deserve it. Not anymore. After what he pulled in kalos, i be grateful to the writers that he won't win at all.

He didn't release is Greninja he's in Kalos he help Zygarde with something and for Goodra he has a home he wants to protect, and after that Greninja will go back to Ash and Goodra can be called back if Ash's needs him. And about the "release his powerhouses" thing when do he ever do that? And when he does release a pokemon its for a reason. And who are you to say that Ash doesn't deserve to win a league?

 

[Alexander18]

He didn't release is Greninja he's in Kalos he help Zygarde with something and for Goodra he has a home he wants to protect, and after that Greninja will go back to Ash and Goodra can be called back if Ash's needs him. And about the "release his powerhouses" thing when do he ever do that? And when he does release a pokemon its for a reason. And who are you to say that Ash doesn't deserve to win a league?

Greninja and Goodra are released. Ash released Pidgeot, Butterfree, Primeape, Lapras, etc. For this, ash does not deserve any league wins.

Ash can win anime exclusive leagues and battle facilities. Those are good enough. But leagues in regions that is in both games and anime is off the table.

 

[SH60]

Greninja and Goodra are released. Ash released Pidgeot, Butterfree, Primeape, Lapras, etc. For this, ash does not deserve any league wins.

Ash can win anime exclusive leagues and battle facilities. Those are good enough. But leagues in regions that is in both games and anime is off the table.

Ok so because he cares about his pokemon he doesn't deserve to win a league thats BS.

 

[Alexander18]

Ok so because he cares about his pokemon he doesn't deserve to win a league thats BS.

No, it is logical and karma. If he is gonna toss his best pokemon aside then no league win for him.

 

[SH60]

No, it is logical and karma. If he is gonna toss his best pokemon aside then no league win for him.

He did it for good reasons like how his pokemon want lives outside being Ash's pokemon like how butterfree has a mate and he wanted to make a family and the best way for that is for Ash to release him.

 

[Alexander18]

He did it for good reasons like how his pokemon want lives outside being Ash's pokemon like how butterfree has a mate and he wanted to make a family and the best way for that is for Ash to release him.

That maybe but i do not think Ash will win a league. Especially if he is going to ditch his ace pokemon that got him to top 2.

 

[SH60]

That maybe but i do not think Ash will win a league. Especially if he is going to ditch his ace pokemon that got him to top 2.

Greninja can come back when hes done helping Zygarde. And Ash has other ace pokemon and he may get his next one in Alola.

 

[Frozocrone]

That maybe but i do not think Ash will win a league. Especially if he is going to ditch his ace pokemon that got him to top 2.

Ditch? Are you that irrational?

Ash allowed Greninja to leave to make sure that what happened in Kalos couldn't happen again. Ash has never ditched Pokemon, he has always respected their wishes and desires, even if it means parting with them. That's how good a person he is.

 

[Alexander18]

Greninja can come back when hes done helping Zygarde. And Ash has other ace pokemon and he may get his next one in Alola.

Actually no it can't. It is released according to several sites. Lycanroc seems to be Ash's ace. If he releases it like Greninja then i am done.

Anyway, i don't want Ash to win.
You want Ash to win a league.
Lets agree to disagree on this.

Ditch? Are you that irrational?

Ash allowed Greninja to leave to make sure that what happened in Kalos couldn't happen again. Ash has never ditched Pokemon, he has always respected their wishes and desires, even if it means parting with them. That's how good a person he is.

Nothing was going to happen to Kalos again. Greninja and Goodra should have gone to Oak's lab. Kalos does not need protecting. Ash may have good qualities but he has poor judgement skills.

 

[Frozocrone]

Nothing was going to happen to Kalos again. Greninja and Goodra should have gone to Oak's lab. Kalos does not need protecting. Ash may have good qualities but he has poor judgement skills.

Evidently you missed the Giant Rock remnants randomly attacking the group and likely other parts of Kalos, even after Xerosic was defeated.

 

[SH60]

Actually no it can't. It is released according to several sites. Lycanroc seems to be Ash's ace. If he releases it like Greninja then i am done.

Why would Ash release Lycanroc? I don't think Lycanroc arc is going to be the same as Greninja's arc.

Nothing was going to happen to Kalos again. Greninja and Goodra should have gone to Oak's lab. Kalos does not need protecting. Ash may have good qualities but he has poor judgement skills.

Goodra has a home he wants to protect and Ash can call him back for something if need be,