2nd Gen Johto is the most boring region

[Saint Sophie]

Seriously. Kanto comes a close second; well actually I would place them both together but Kanto wins slightly because of nostalgic reasons.

There's just something about Johto I find really drab. I like Ecruteak City, the towers, the stories, etc. but to be honest the whole region is so pants. There are no memorable landmarks whatsoever (apart from Mount Silver, arguably). The only 'landmarks' are Dark Cave (boring), Mount Mortar (boring), Whirl Islands (boring, apart from Lugia) and Union Cave (boring). There's just nothing special about it and I just think it's a really bland region when you compare it to the beauty of Hoenn and Sinnoh.

The Wild Pok?mon choice is extremely limited and the grinding spots are abysmal. There was little improvement in HG/SS.

Anyone else in agreement?

 

[Florges]

Grinding is part of the reason why I hate Gen II. By the third gym, I like my Pokemon to be in the 30's, but it just isn't possible with all of the Pokemon before Goldenrod was under level 10. If Vs. Seeker was a thing, it would make things a lot easier.

I do enjoy the characters, especially Morty and Eusine, but the entire game is super slow.

 

[Sektor]

Not really. It wrote the map on everything that followed. Day and night, days of the week, mystery gift, held items, berries, new Pokéballs with different criteria, contests, Shiny Pokémon, eggs, Baby Pokémon, follow-up evolutions (Crobat), Steel and Dark types... the list rolls on. I thought Johto, at the time, to be rather exciting. The older games are always dated in comparison so maybe that's what you're feeling. That and I'm actually old enough to remember the day they came out...

 

[Mab]

Not really. It wrote the map on everything that followed. Day and night, days of the week, mystery gift, held items, berries, new Pok?balls with different criteria, contests, Shiny Pok?mon, eggs, Baby Pok?mon, follow-up evolutions (Crobat), Steel and Dark types... the list rolls on. I thought Johto, at the time, to be rather exciting. The older games are always dated in comparison so maybe that's what you're feeling. That and I'm actually old enough to remember the day they came out...

Though Gen II did introduce a lot, those are features of the games that took place in Johto, they shouldn't really have any bearing on a discussion purely about the region itself...

I prefer Johto to Kanto, but I agree that the older regions tend to be rather bland when it comes to landmarks, interesting scenery, route diversity, et cetera. I'd call Kanto a lot worse at that, but Johto isn't particularly great either.

 

[tokyodrift]

I think we have to look at the bigger picture. I don't think GF expected it to be that big back then. They were still learning and growing as a company. Grinding wise, the Elite Four starts at the low 40s. I do have to agree that it really didn't have much of a story aside from just stopping Team Rocket. Now that I actually look back, they could have included the box legendaries in the story more then they did.

 

[Sektor]

Though Gen II did introduce a lot, those are features of the games that took place in Johto, they shouldn't really have any bearing on a discussion purely about the region itself...

I prefer Johto to Kanto, but I agree that the older regions tend to be rather bland when it comes to landmarks, interesting scenery, route diversity, et cetera. I'd call Kanto a lot worse at that, but Johto isn't particularly great either.

I somewhat agree and disagree. Pok?mon Gold and Silver Versions were products of their time, and if we really wanted to argue I could claim that Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is far, far superior than anything GameFreak had produced up until that point (it's still visually pleasing). The point I was trying to make is that it was a step forward in the right direction, and without that step the series could have wound up fading into nothing with all the other great franchises out there. I just think it's best to look at the games as they were then, as opposed to now.

Twinkies probably tasted better in my youth than they do now, even though they were always a lacklustre product to begin with... I just don't know why saying it's absolutely boring helps. I thought it was actually pretty entertaining. I racked up the max amount of hours allowed in the cartridges, so it must have been entertaining to me at the time. Would I go back and play them again? Maybe, for nostalgia's sake, but otherwise I think I'll play other games in the mean time. I think that giving it points in that regard help alleviate any boring issues some people had in the games.

I thought Hoenn was boring to be honest. I also didn't appreciate the designs of several of the new Pok?mon, so to each their own I guess.

 

[BettyNewbie]

It's not really fair to compare Johto to Hoenn and Sinnoh. The latter two were designed to be purely standalone regions, while Johto was designed more as an addition to Kanto. Johto and Kanto are best seen as two parts of a whole rather than separately.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I've been telling people about this for a long time now. If you ignore the mechanics they introduced that revolutionized the series, the main campaign itself is downright awful. Horrid grinding, limited wild encounters, poor type diversity (no retconned Dark types for Kanto mons and only one new Ghost and Dragon type?), some Johto gym leaders using Kanto Pokemon as ace Pokemon instead of Johto Pokemon, little to no sidequests in the Kanto region postgame, Lance's three Dragonites, and Team Rocket's presence.

 

[Sektor]

It's not really fair to compare Johto to Hoenn and Sinnoh. The latter two were designed to be purely standalone regions, while Johto was designed more as an addition to Kanto. Johto and Kanto are best seen as two parts of a whole rather than separately.

This puts my views into perspective a little better. Sometimes I forget this as well. Kanto and Johto combined seemed HUGE at the time of its release. I think I'll always have fond memories of the games, I'm sure.

 

[BettyNewbie]

This puts my views into perspective a little better. Sometimes I forget this as well. Kanto and Johto combined seemed HUGE at the time of its release. I think I'll always have fond memories of the games, I'm sure.

Notice how none of the types of Johto's gyms overlap with those of Kanto's gyms? Or, how Johto doesn't have it's own E4? That's because it doesn't really exist separately from Kanto. The two regions are meant to be seen as two parts of a whole.

GF hasn't made another sequel generation since GSC, so Johto feels like a weird anomaly in retrospect. All of the other regions were based on the standalone template first established with Hoenn.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I disagree totally. While Johto and Kanto were lacking a bit in content, some of the newer regions are totally convoluted. The towns and cities in Johto are quaint and generally have very interesting back stories and side quests. I agree about the grinding though.

 

[Sektor]

Notice how none of the types of Johto's gyms overlap with those of Kanto's gyms? Or, how Johto doesn't have it's own E4? That's because it doesn't really exist separately from Kanto. The two regions are meant to be seen as two parts of a whole.

GF hasn't made another sequel generation since GSC, so Johto feels like a weird anomaly in retrospect. All of the other regions were based on the standalone template first established with Hoenn.

Maybe they were planning on going around Kanto and Johto and decided against continually adding on to the same piece of land? Who knows? But I agree that it was strange to just have one elite four at the time.

 

[Rivvon]

I disagree.

Johto may not be as extravagant as the newer regions, but I feel Johto's routes have way more interesting layouts than Kanto's. Also, I really love the way Johto is laid out overall. The kind of "branching" from one city to another that it provides is really nice; you feel like you can go anywhere almost anytime you want. The region feels really connected in a more natural way because of this--the way some routes loop back on each other, giving you access to up to three different directions from Violet City, and then you can go either east or west from Ecruteak.

The stellar city themes definitely help, too.

 

[sykotiksonik]

I could not disagree more.

With my experiences and the way I play video games, with a soundtrack as amazing as memorable and energetic as Johto's, it makes the journey so much better. When you look at the map designs alone (minus Violet City because that's a great map design), they don't look terribly interesting. But playing through the games, I found myself remembering more details about Johto while the music was playing then I could without. But it's not boring by any stretch of the imagination. Boring would be Kanto or Sinnoh, in my opinion. The music in Pokémon games matters so much to me, that's why Sinnoh is so boring for me.

 

[longlostsoldier]

Strongly disagree. Unless by landmarks you mean 'untouched by man', then you just listed several landmarks you like in the OP when you mentioned the Towers and Mount Silver. Which, if you played the way I did, you'll pass by Towers constantly throughout at least half of the game. The way the maps are connected is fantastic; I often roamed most of the map in multiple circles, it was fun. You can't do that in many other regions without crossing big bodies of water, and if it was just one circle that would be really bland, but it's like.... circles nested within circles. It feels very natural, all the winding ways to get to one place or another.

Personally, I liked the area with the Unown, the puzzles were very strange and memorable to me as a kid, and you always wondered: did pokemon build this, or did humans? And Dragon's Den still sticks out in my mind, it just felt like this secretive enclade where the dragons of the world are kept safe.

I remember every single map of the game (although the caves without flash I mostly remember for being annoying, I will admit, like all flash caves in all gens, and I remember Kanto for it being kinda dumbed down). That's pretty memorable. I can't say the same about Heonn, because I forgot half the maps due to being water, water, and more freaking water.

IF you like your mons all at level 30 by third gym and are annoyed at the weak wild mons, then I'm sorry, but the game did a good job stopping you, because it would have made the third gym leader too easy. If you use strategy you won't need to be 10 levels higher than the gym leader, I mean, I never have to level up that high to beat a gym leader, I'm sorry, but easy grinding on wild mons so you can level 10 or 20 levels higher than the local gym leader was not how any of the pokemon games were designed to be played. Seriously. You can't complain about the game not making itself a cakewalk for you. If you're going to do that, you might as well complain about it not giving you enough rare candies and masterballs.

 

[Piloswine]

I'm biased by Johto being my first time playing pokemon, but I disagree. Maybe playing it today wouldn't be the same fun, but playing it as a kid was really, really nice. I was trying to name all the places I like in this region, but when I saw I was citing the whole game.
At the time I played it, I was watching the anime and the anime was about becoming a pokemon master and defeating Team Rocket. That's what I was expecting from the game, and that's what the game was about. I think this is too personal.
Just wanna comment that I don't think that adding only one new Ghost-type and one new Dragon-type was a problem. I guess the hype on this two types was they were rare. I guess Game Freaks only began to add more of them since gen 3 to balance the number of pokemon per type, but before this, the few Pokemon of this types were more special.

 

[Hikamaru]

I've been telling people about this for a long time now. If you ignore the mechanics they introduced that revolutionized the series, the main campaign itself is downright awful. Horrid grinding, limited wild encounters, poor type diversity (no retconned Dark types for Kanto mons and only one new Ghost and Dragon type?), some Johto gym leaders using Kanto Pokemon as ace Pokemon instead of Johto Pokemon, little to no sidequests in the Kanto region postgame, Lance's three Dragonites, and Team Rocket's presence.

This is what I absolutely agree with. Johto wasn't a bad region but it was loaded with flaws like Pinkie here said, so I mostly blamed that for Johto being low on my "fave region" rankings.

 

[MyUglyOne]

I completely disagree that Johto is boring. I might be bias because this was a generation that I was the most excited for, but these games still get me super pumped when I play through them. I really enjoy Violet city, Goldenrod city, the Ilex Forest, Rage Lake, and the Ice Cave <3. Oh And the Whirl Islands too, they were so much fun to explore, and even afte all these years can I can still get lost then when looking for Lugio.

 

[Lunar]

Although I can see the argument for Johto being bad, I generally quite like it. Something about the region felt natural to me and although there isn't too much route diversity, I'm a big fan of the forest and grass routes, it's just personal but I quite like Johto haha.

 

[moon]

I disagree.

Johto may not be as extravagant as the newer regions, but I feel Johto's routes have way more interesting layouts than Kanto's. Also, I really love the way Johto is laid out overall. The kind of "branching" from one city to another that it provides is really nice; you feel like you can go anywhere almost anytime you want. The region feels really connected in a more natural way because of this--the way some routes loop back on each other, giving you access to up to three different directions from Violet City, and then you can go either east or west from Ecruteak.

The stellar city themes definitely help, too.

I really agree with this! I love Johto's routes; they were long and winding, making it feel like you were actually trekking through the landscape to reach your next destination, while they were often more straightforward in Kanto. Somebody could probably analyze this and prove me wrong, haha, but that's the feel I get from the layouts.

I also like Johto's cities and do think they all are unique and have their charm. Of course they won't be as incredibly detailed and messy as the newer generations' towns, but for the time back then, Johto was a fresh breeze.

Plotwise though... Yeah, Team Rocket were so lame. They didn't get the comeback they could have been given. One could argue that this makes the gen 2 games even more interesting though; it's pretty realistic that after having been defeated some years ago, fanatic TR remnants rise up in a pathetic attempt to find their leader, believing that would bring their glorious business back. But they fail, and there is no real climactic story or world shaking monster event. It's more realistic than that, and your own journey is the focus. (I don't think this was on purpose lmao but you COULD look at it that way if you squint, I guess)