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Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post)

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Zeffy

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    Moveset Help & Other Questions

    posting guidelines

    ✓ Post questions about moveset help, battling mechanics, competitive jargon, and general questions about PvE and PvP Pokémon battling here. (Hover over the underlined terms to find an example for each.)
    ✓ If you are building a team and you want to determine which Pokémon you should use, it's best to make use of the Teambuilding Workshop thread rather than posting here.
    ✓ If you are unsure whether your questions belongs here, then post a thread in the main forum and the staff will look into it.
    ✓ Avoid asking questions that have already been answered in the FAQ below.
    ✓ Avoid starting and/or participating in arguments in this thread—doing so may result in the deletion of the post(s) in question as off-topic. Idle chit-chat goes in the Battling & Team Building DCC thread.
    ✓ If you feel that something should be added to the FAQ below, please private message wolf instead of posting here.

    frequently asked questions

    What does OU / UU / RU / etc. mean?
    These are Smogon tiers and are aptly named by the amount of usage the Pokémon in the tier have. OU stands for OverUsed, UU stands for UnderUsed, RU stands for RarelyUsed, and NU stands for NeverUsed. There are also other Smogon tiers available, such as Doubles and Little Cup. For more information, visit this link.
    What are EVs and IVs?
    Effort Values (EVs) are points that give bonus stats to an individual Pokemon. They are gained by defeating Pokémon in-game. A Pokémon can only have 510 EVs in total, with a limit of 252 per stat (255 in previous generations). At level 100, each 4 EV points contribute to 1 stat increase. For example, a Pokemon with 252 attack EVs gains 63 attack stats. Individual Values (IVs), on the other hand, are values that determine the actual stat of an individual Pokémon. These provide the variation in between the stats of each Pokémon of the same species, provided they have no EVs. These are predetermined by the game and cannot be changed. Each stat can have a total of 31 IVs. At level 100, 1 IV point corresponds to 1 stat increase.
    Playing on a simulator provides easy access to changing the EVs and IVs of a Pokémon, giving each player the capability to tweak their Pokémon's stats to their liking.
    What are natures?
    Natures are Pokémon mechanics that increase 10% of a certain stat while decreasing 10% of another stat. These are predetermined and cannot be changed. In competitive battles, it's a good practice to give your Pokémon a nature that increases it's most useful stat (such as attack/special attack and speed) and decreases a relatively useless stat (such as defense/special defense for offensive Pokémon). For more information on which nature increases and decreases which stat, read this Bulbapedia article.
    What is monotype / doubles / triples / etc and how can I play it?
    Monotype is a special tier where you can only use a team where all of the 6 Pokémon share a similar type. These are similar to the way Gym Leaders are in-game. Meanwhile, doubles / triples / rotation / etc are special battle variants. More information about them can be found in this Bulbapedia article. You can play monotype, doubles, triples, and inverse battles in the Pokémon Showdown! battling simulator.
    Do I have to play by Smogon's rules?
    By all means, no! However, if you are playing in a tournament that adheres to Smogon rules then you are definitely subjected to play by Smogon's rules. Additionally, PokéCommunity's own Battle Server adheres to Smogon's rules most of the time so please be mindful of them when looking for a battle.

    helpful links

     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    Anyone has a good build and moveset for Seviper. I have an idea, but I don't know how effective it will be.
     
    Anyone has a good build and moveset for Seviper. I have an idea, but I don't know how effective it will be.

    Care to share your idea? Ideally, this set should work most of the time:

    Serperior @Life Orb
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Knock Off / Taunt

    The goal is to basically use Leaf Storm to get that +2 special attack boost and then plow through from there.
     
    Anyone has a good build and moveset for Seviper. I have an idea, but I don't know how effective it will be.

    Care to share your idea? Ideally, this set should work most of the time:

    Serperior @Life Orb
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Knock Off / Taunt

    The goal is to basically use Leaf Storm to get that +2 special attack boost and then plow through from there.
    Pretty sure he was talking about Seviper, not Serperior.

    Anyway, Seviper is a very mediocre Pokemon, mainly because its low Speed and bad defenses don't go hand-in-hand, but this you could try this out:
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Flamethrower
    -Giga Drain
    -Sucker Punch/Knock Off
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Item: Life Orb
     
    Does anyone find Telepathy useful on Musharna? I initially bred two (one with synchronize and one with Forewarn) to try out both to see which I wanted, but I've decided to go the Hypnosis+Dream Eater route and because of that, I CAN'T use Synchronize in case someone paralyses or poisons Musharna first, then it passes that condition to the attacker and therefore cannot put them to sleep, so my only options are Forewarn and to rebreed to get Telepathy, and I never bred telepathy in the first place because not only is it only useful in double or triple battles, but it also is only useful on the (relatively) few attacks that attack team mates so now I'm not really sure what to do with Musharna so I'm just curious now that my only options are Forewarn and Telepathy if anyone uses Telepathy on Musharna and what you think of it. And for that matter, if anyone uses Forewarn (not just read the text description on Serebii and decided it was useless) I'd like to hear opinions on that too please. Thank you!

    Note: Hypnosis + Dream Eater are NON NEGOTIABLE. I don't care what Smogon says or what people do when their pokemon are put to sleep, I am asking SOLELY about Telepathy and Forewarn on Musharna. Sorry for the note, but I posted this before and people honestly just seem to run Ctrl + F on posts and run copy + Paste answers on key words without reading what is being asked, and I really want people's opinons on Telepathy and/or Forewarn on Musharna, not what the preferred strategy is, not what this or that site suggests, etc, nor do I want "Oh well, you're not going to be competing in the world pokemon championships against the worlds top pokemon players? Then anything will work so it doesn't matter what movesets you use" it's just really frustrating when people answer every question EXCEPT the one you asked. Sorry for the rant! :D
     
    Does anyone find Telepathy useful on Musharna? I initially bred two (one with synchronize and one with Forewarn) to try out both to see which I wanted, but I've decided to go the Hypnosis+Dream Eater route and because of that, I CAN'T use Synchronize in case someone paralyses or poisons Musharna first, then it passes that condition to the attacker and therefore cannot put them to sleep, so my only options are Forewarn and to rebreed to get Telepathy, and I never bred telepathy in the first place because not only is it only useful in double or triple battles, but it also is only useful on the (relatively) few attacks that attack team mates so now I'm not really sure what to do with Musharna so I'm just curious now that my only options are Forewarn and Telepathy if anyone uses Telepathy on Musharna and what you think of it. And for that matter, if anyone uses Forewarn (not just read the text description on Serebii and decided it was useless) I'd like to hear opinions on that too please. Thank you!

    Note: Hypnosis + Dream Eater are NON NEGOTIABLE. I don't care what Smogon says or what people do when their pokemon are put to sleep, I am asking SOLELY about Telepathy and Forewarn on Musharna. Sorry for the note, but I posted this before and people honestly just seem to run Ctrl + F on posts and run copy + Paste answers on key words without reading what is being asked, and I really want people's opinons on Telepathy and/or Forewarn on Musharna, not what the preferred strategy is, not what this or that site suggests, etc, nor do I want "Oh well, you're not going to be competing in the world pokemon championships against the worlds top pokemon players? Then anything will work so it doesn't matter what movesets you use" it's just really frustrating when people answer every question EXCEPT the one you asked. Sorry for the rant! :D

    Once again, Telepathy is preferred in doubles formats to protect Musharna from an allied Earthquake or the like. Synchronize is the best ability to use in singles, as it punishes opponents who burn, paralyze or poison Musharna. Forewarn is the least useful out of Musharna's 3 possible abilities.
     
    Care to share your idea?.

    My idea was more like:

    Seviper @Shuca Berry
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest or Quiet nature
    - Belch
    - Flame Thrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Stockpile

    The idea was to trick someone into hitting it with Earthquake or other Physical ground move which reduces damage and eats berry while setting up with Stockpile. Then retaliating with Belch which hits at 120 power + Stab. Flamethrower and Dark Pulse for coverage, however I am sure there are other moves useful to coverage. Should work great with Trick Room.

    Not sure this Idea would work though. . .
     
    My idea was more like:

    Seviper @Shuca Berry
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA
    Modest or Quiet nature
    - Belch
    - Flame Thrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Stockpile

    The idea was to trick someone into hitting it with Earthquake or other Physical ground move which reduces damage and eats berry while setting up with Stockpile. Then retaliating with Belch which hits at 120 power + Stab. Flamethrower and Dark Pulse for coverage, however I am sure there are other moves useful to coverage. Should work great with Trick Room.

    Not sure this Idea would work though. . .

    As I already mentioned, Seviper is slow and frail. This doesn't exactly go hand-in-hand, as it will be forced to take a (potentially) fatal hit before it even gets a chance to use Stockpile. Powerful Earthquakes can still take it out. 252 Defense EVs without any HP investment is also a waste of how to optimize a Pokemon's bulk, unless the Pokemon has significantly more HP than Defense, such as Wobbuffet and Drifblim:

    Here's an example on why this Seviper variant isn't really effective:

    0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 160-190 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 108-127 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    In the time it takes for Seviper to use Stockpile, then Belch, Therian Landorus can simply spam Earthquake for the KO. Not only that, it also resists Belch.

    There are also Pokemon that opt for Earth Power over Earthquake, like (Mega) Diancie and Heatran:

    240 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Seviper: 172-203 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Even if Seviper gets to use Belch, Mega Diancie can simply survive it and move in and KO Seviper.

    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Seviper: 148-175 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Seviper Dark Pulse vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 76-90 (23.3 - 27.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 4HKO

    The same applies to Heatran, but only this time, Dark Pulse is literally the only thing Seviper can do against it.
     
    Last edited:
    As I already mentioned, Seviper is slow and frail. This doesn't exactly go hand-in-hand, as it will be forced to take a (potentially) fatal hit before it even gets a chance to use Stockpile. Powerful Earthquakes can still take it out. 252 Defense EVs without any HP investment is also a waste of how to optimize a Pokemon's bulk, unless the Pokemon has significantly more HP than Defense, such as Wobbuffet and Drifblim:

    Here's an example on why this Seviper variant isn't really effective:

    0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 160-190 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 108-127 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    In the time it takes for Seviper to use Stockpile, then Belch, Therian Landorus can simply spam Earthquake for the KO. Not only that, it also resists Belch.

    There are also Pokemon that opt for Earth Power over Earthquake, like (Mega) Diancie and Heatran:

    240 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Seviper: 172-203 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (even if Seviper gets to use Belch, Mega Diancie can simply move in and KO Seviper)

    252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuca Berry Seviper: 148-175 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ SpA Seviper Dark Pulse vs. 12 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 76-90 (23.3 - 27.6%) -- 75.4% chance to 4HKO

    The same applies to Heatran, but only this time, Dark Pulse is literally the only thing Seviper can do against it.

    Thank you for your suggestion. However, I never intended to have Seviper go up against a Ground type Pokemon due to it's type disadvantage. Earthquake is a common move loved by many trainers, and lots of trainers use it on non ground types. Thusfore losing the STAB bonus. Lets use Feraligater as an example:

    Feraligater comes out and sees Seviper. Knowing Seviper's frail stats, the trainer is tempted to go for an earthquake which he believes that will OHKO or at least survive with Focus Sash. Upon using Earthquake, it did minor damage with defense bulk, and allowed it to eats it's berry. Seviper retaliates with Giga drain which should deal a butt load of damage and restore it's health. Feraligater now is forced to retreat (assuming it's bulk held up to not get KO'd), which is a good time to stockpile.

    There are more than one way to use your Pokemon than just reading and crunching a bunch of numbers. Think about that.
     
    Thank you for your suggestion. However, I never intended to have Seviper go up against a Ground type Pokemon due to it's type disadvantage. Earthquake is a common move loved by many trainers, and lots of trainers use it on non ground types. Thusfore losing the STAB bonus. Lets use Feraligater as an example:

    Feraligater comes out and sees Seviper. Knowing Seviper's frail stats, the trainer is tempted to go for an earthquake which he believes that will OHKO or at least survive with Focus Sash. Upon using Earthquake, it did minor damage with defense bulk, and allowed it to eats it's berry. Seviper retaliates with Giga drain which should deal a butt load of damage and restore it's health. Feraligater now is forced to retreat (assuming it's bulk held up to not get KO'd), which is a good time to stockpile.

    There are more than one way to use your Pokemon than just reading and crunching a bunch of numbers. Think about that.
    In your example, Feraligatr doesn't need to use Earthquake anymore, mainly because of Sheer Force.

    Here's another example: Tyranitar. It doesn't use Earthquake as much, but it's still used on occasion. Not only that, it resists Belch, Dark Pulse and Flamethrower all at once, and takes pathetic damage from Giga Drain, due to the Special Defense buff it gets from sandstorm:

    252+ SpA Seviper Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 102-120 (29.9 - 35.1%) -- 15.1% chance to 3HKO

    252+ SpA Seviper Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 224 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 82-98 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    Meanwhile, Tyranitar can do whatever it pleases against Seviper:

    Offensive:

    252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 120-142 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 240-284 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 180-213 (62.7 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 144-171 (50.1 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage (same applies to Pursuit hitting a switching Seviper)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 297-349 (103.4 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 198-233 (68.9 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 396-466 (137.9 - 162.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 237-280 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    Defensive:

    0 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 150-177 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Shuca Berry Seviper: 100-118 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

    0 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 200-236 (69.6 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Seviper: 120-142 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

    And if you still insist on using Belch Seviper, SubSalac is a much safer way to do it. You spam Substitute until the Salac Berry activates, letting Seviper actually outspeed things. Of course, priority and special walls have to be taken out first:
    -Substitute
    -Belch
    -Flamethrower
    -Dark Pulse/Knock Off
    Nature: Timid/Naive
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe (level 50) or 20 HP/236 SAtk/252 Spe (level 100)
    Item: Salac Berry
     
    And if you still insist on using Belch Seviper, SubSalac is a much safer way to do it. You spam Substitute until the Salac Berry activates, letting Seviper actually outspeed things. Of course, priority and special walls have to be taken out first:
    -Substitute
    -Belch
    -Flamethrower
    -Dark Pulse/Knock Off
    Nature: Timid/Naive
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SAtk/252 Spe (level 50) or 20 HP/236 SAtk/252 Spe (level 100)
    Item: Salac Berry

    That is an excellent idea. Thank you.
     
    Zeffy, in the FAQ you said Pokémon can have 255 EVs max per stat, but IIRC isn't it 252?

    Anyway, I've been finding that once Trick Room wears off, I don't have a reliable way to set it back up again, so it would be nice to have a fast (and preferably at least somewhat bulky) Trick Room user that I can safely switch into before using Trick Room.
     
    Zeffy, in the FAQ you said Pokémon can have 255 EVs max per stat, but IIRC isn't it 252?
    It is 255, but 252 is always the number used because 252 is divisible by 4, while 255 is not. The extra 3 EVs from having 255 don't do anything since you need 4 EVs to get an extra stat point.

    Anyway, I've been finding that once Trick Room wears off, I don't have a reliable way to set it back up again, so it would be nice to have a fast (and preferably at least somewhat bulky) Trick Room user that I can safely switch into before using Trick Room.
    A LOT of Pokemon can learn Trick Room, actually. Some stuff that's not terribly slow or frail would be like....Jirachi, Celebi, Starmie, Espeon, (Prankster) Whimsicott,.....idk you can look at the list and see what you like.
     
    It is 255, but 252 is always the number used because 252 is divisible by 4, while 255 is not. The extra 3 EVs from having 255 don't do anything since you need 4 EVs to get an extra stat point.


    A LOT of Pokemon can learn Trick Room, actually. Some stuff that's not terribly slow or frail would be like....Jirachi, Celebi, Starmie, Espeon, (Prankster) Whimsicott,.....idk you can look at the list and see what you like.
    I know only 252 of them count, but didn't they make the limit 252 in Gen VI so you never waste any by going over it?
     
    Here's an interesting question. When a Pokemon gets hit with Knockoff while holding a Colbur berry, what actually happens?

    I can assume one of these answers:

    1. Knockoff trumps everything and knocks off berry while getting increased damage and no effect from berry.

    2. Berry gets eaten and damage is reduced, but knockoff damage is still increased because berry was held when the attack was used.

    3. Berry gets eaten, and knockoff damage is reduced and no held item damage bonus.

    4. 3DS explodes.
     
    Here's an interesting question. When a Pokemon gets hit with Knockoff while holding a Colbur berry, what actually happens?

    I can assume one of these answers:

    1. Knockoff trumps everything and knocks off berry while getting increased damage and no effect from berry.

    2. Berry gets eaten and damage is reduced, but knockoff damage is still increased because berry was held when the attack was used.

    3. Berry gets eaten, and knockoff damage is reduced and no held item damage bonus.

    4. 3DS explodes.
    The Colbur Berry activates before it gets knocked away, so Knock Off's damage is reduced down to its regular base power (in other words, the third scenario).
     
    Nice. Next question. This one is a build related question.

    I just ported in my shiny Gyarados (Nicknamed Livio) from HGSS. It's an Adamant nature, and I want to use it in competative combat. I want to go for a 252 Speed/attack build, but other trainers say that I should go more bulky with 152 defense, 100 special defence, and 252 HP with Gyarados. I understand the need for bulk because you need it for Dragon Dance set-ups. But for the obvious reason of those annoying Prankster/Taunt users, I don't see myself setting up more than 1 Dragon Dance. So if I crank up speed and attack, I should scare off a physical Pokemon using Intimidate, and set up the Dragon Dance while opponent is switching (especially users of Garchomp who fears ice fang).

    I don't know, what do you think?
     
    Nice. Next question. This one is a build related question.

    I just ported in my shiny Gyarados (Nicknamed Livio) from HGSS. It's an Adamant nature, and I want to use it in competative combat. I want to go for a 252 Speed/attack build, but other trainers say that I should go more bulky with 152 defense, 100 special defence, and 252 HP with Gyarados. I understand the need for bulk because you need it for Dragon Dance set-ups. But for the obvious reason of those annoying Prankster/Taunt users, I don't see myself setting up more than 1 Dragon Dance. So if I crank up speed and attack, I should scare off a physical Pokemon using Intimidate, and set up the Dragon Dance while opponent is switching (especially users of Garchomp who fears ice fang).

    I don't know, what do you think?

    To take advantage of Intimidate + Dragon Dance, Gyarados should be brought in on physical attackers that can't do much to it, then set up a Dragon Dance on the switch. It's even better if you're about to Mega Evolve it into Mega Gyarados, as the latter has incredible all-round bulk.

    Substitute + Dragon Dance Gyarados has an easier time against status users, as Substitute blocks status, but you have to predict if the status will come your way or if the opponent switches. Here's a better Sub + Dragon Dance set:
    -Substitute
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Bounce
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 88 HP/220 Atk/4 Def/196 Spe
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate

    This spread prevents a burned Ferrothorn's Power Whip from breaking Gyarados' substitute
     
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