Moveset Help & Other Questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
So I want a physical Emolga, end of discussion! :D Mainly because I went to the trouble of breeding one, but unfortunately my presumed strategy of Cell Battery and Motor Drive doesn't actually work because Motor Drive absorbs the electric move so Cell Battery never activates, so having said that I now need a consumable item (because I am also running Acrobatics on it) and I was hoping for one that boosted attack so would Leichi Berry be a worthwhile alternative? I know both Cell Battery and Leichi berry boost attack by 50% (one requiring an electric attack, the other the user's HP being in red) but is Emolga too frail to handle a Leichi Berry? At least with Cell Battery I could have switched in on a predicted electric attack, but I don't know if Leichi would ever get used, so if not that, then what consumable item could I replace it with?

Since Normal Gem is obtainable (via diancie) any chance the Flying Gem is available anywhere? That would solve my problem I think
 
Last edited:
Howmander said:
So I want a physical Emolga, end of discussion! :D Mainly because I went to the trouble of breeding one, but unfortunately my presumed strategy of Cell Battery and Motor Drive doesn't actually work because Motor Drive absorbs the electric move so Cell Battery never activates, so having said that I now need a consumable item (because I am also running Acrobatics on it) and I was hoping for one that boosted attack so would Leichi Berry be a worthwhile alternative? I know both Cell Battery and Leichi berry boost attack by 50% (one requiring an electric attack, the other the user's HP being in red) but is Emolga too frail to handle a Leichi Berry? At least with Cell Battery I could have switched in on a predicted electric attack, but I don't know if Leichi would ever get used, so if not that, then what consumable item could I replace it with?

Since Normal Gem is obtainable (via diancie) any chance the Flying Gem is available anywhere? That would solve my problem I think
Click to expand...
The Normal Gem is the only Gem available in Gen VI, so you're out of luck. Any Acrobatics users will have to make do with consumable items or no item at all.
 
Save said:
So i recently got my hands on a mew, Modest nature what would be a good moveset for it and how should i ev train in this will be my first legendary pokemon i take to online battle. I was thinking of ev training it in special attack since its a modest nature but what else. Thinking about making it a special sweeper. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I've got a Modest Mew too and like using it s a special sweeper myself. Contrary to what other people say, base 100 is pretty decent as far as I'm concerned because how many people are making pokemon with base 75 in Att or Sp Att as all out attackers or pokemon with base 80-something speed with Jolly or Timid natures in this thread alone? So while support, setup and annoyer movesets are quite viable (and limitless in their scope and setup) half the good strategies are banned anyway so if you still want a special sweeper, mine is

Hold: Lum Berry (can do Leftovers too, or really whatever you want, I just like using Lum for Synhronize)
MAx Evs in Sp Att, Speed and the remaining 6 in HP.
Moves: Transform
Ice Beam
Aura Sphere
Psychic/Psychock (Psyshock if you are up against opponents with high Sp Def but lower Def)

I like this moveset just because I love transform on everything, lol! Also since I want STAB, I NEED Psychic/Psyshock on it. Plus it's super effective against 11 separate types, however, if you don't really care about Transform or STAB and want maximum actual pokemon coverage, (so not just type, but actual pokemon with their various dual types) the moveset with the absolute most coverage seems to be

Ice Beam
Aura Sphere
Earth Power
Dark Pulse

At least according to the type coverage calculator located at https://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage

But really, mess around with the types Cause Mew is truly a pretty great pokemon and what it lacks in power it more than makes up for in being able to learn every T.M. and ORAS Move Tutor move so you can definitely devise some strategy to bolster it to make up for that.
 
Khaotic Kebab said:
Listen, and it's not like I don't appreciate your advice - I do. But this is the one thing that annoys me about competitive players - you assume everything will happen the way you predict, almost all the time.

But i dont get how that is relevant to this? You're using a mediocre pokemon and trying to make use of its even more mediocre defenses and cutting its best attributes for them. Its pretty obvious lol.

You're all like "this'll definitely happen, without fail". Have you TRIED bulky Haxorus? No? Then how can you be sure it won't work? Admittedly I haven't tried it yet either, but who knows?

Its clear to see you havent used "bulky" Haxorus either. Also isnt that pretty contradictory uhhh when you havent used it yourself (??____??) and a logical fallacy js which doesnt help your argument.

It could be a destroyer of worlds for all we know. The point I'm trying to make is, things rarely ever go the way you're assured - logic and assumption are no match for experience.

Its not assumption, pretty sure everyone has enough experience. Also what "experience" do you have in using bulky haxorus? None which you yourself admitted....lol...so tbh i think you're being pretty unfair and again contradicting yourself.

So I implore you to at least try something before you say "that won't work" right off the bat.

Again contradicting yourself. You havent used it either.

Narrow-mindedness has been the downfall of many a competitive player I know - all because something they were certain wouldn't work ended up destroying them. Look at the hate Bulky Talonflame got when the idea was first proposed - "that won't work, you're a noob if you use it this way blah blah blah"....... And now, Bulky Talonflame's nearly as common as Choice Band Talonflame. Just give it some thought, eh?

Because Talonflame has priority, recovery so its actually a relevant defensive threat, better coverage in terms of a defensive pokemon, wisp to break down counters, ability to use Bulk Up so its overall bulkier than Haxorus etc and also because Talonflame actually checks and counters some of the metagames biggest threats. What does Haxorus even wall or check thats even relevant in OU by being bulky? Nothing i can think of. Plus you're using Life Orb so you'll just kill yourself even faster and when things you should be beating come in because you have 0 attack evs. You arent even running Rest and Sleep Talk or a way to prevent status like Taunt.
Click to expand...

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Honestly if you're just gonna post sub par sets and then try and shoot down people who give you sound advice without play testing it yourself (logs, replays would be nice of it working against competent opponents) and then try and back it up with logical fallacies and contradictions. :|
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dark Azelf said:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Honestly if you're just gonna post sub par sets and then try and shoot down people who give you sound advice without play testing it yourself (logs, replays would be nice of it working against competent opponents) and then try and back it up with logical fallacies and contradictions. :|
Click to expand...

Just because I haven't used it either doesn't mean I'm contradicting myself - I'm speculating. There's a world of difference. And "sound advice" is entirely subjective - why do you think I've been posting rebuttals? I don't think you know how a contradiction works.
Also, just because it's not the accepted way to use Haxorus doesn't mean it's the wrong way to use it. And by "experience" I meant the "up front/first hand" kind, not in the sense of the word "experience" pertaining to one's skill. That may have confused things and I apologize. But yeah, experience as in firsthand knowledge, not skill level.

It's my personal opinion that flagging something as hopeless (i.e "that won't work") before even trying it is extremely arrogant - that was my issue with Platinum's post. Neither was I claiming that Bulky Haxorus would be great - I have no idea. Neither do any of you. So don't be so goddamn jaded.

Lastly, I was never directly comparing Haxorus to Talonflame - I was simply using Talonflame as an example of how things that seem pointless turn out great.

Sorry to be so blunt and aggressive, but I've had to explain my opinions of subjects like this so many times I'm frankly sick of it - mainly because people either don't understand or jump to conclusions. You are guilty of the latter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Khaotic Kebab said:
Listen, and it's not like I don't appreciate your advice - I do. But this is the one thing that annoys me about competitive players - you assume everything will happen the way you predict, almost all the time. You're all like "this'll definitely happen, without fail". Have you TRIED bulky Haxorus? No? Then how can you be sure it won't work? Admittedly I haven't tried it yet either, but who knows? It could be a destroyer of worlds for all we know. The point I'm trying to make is, things rarely ever go the way you're assured - logic and assumption are no match for experience. So I implore you to at least try something before you say "that won't work" right off the bat. Narrow-mindedness has been the downfall of many a competitive player I know - all because something they were certain wouldn't work ended up destroying them. Look at the hate Bulky Talonflame got when the idea was first proposed - "that won't work, you're a noob if you use it this way blah blah blah"....... And now, Bulky Talonflame's nearly as common as Choice Band Talonflame. Just give it some thought, eh?
Click to expand...

You're not wrong to cite the importance of experience, but you're perpetuating a false dichotomy (or false mutual exclusivity) between knowledge and experience when really, both of these things are important.

If you think the set is good, that's fine, but as with any argument being presented, you have to give evidence as to why it's a good set. Saying "you never know" isn't incorrect, but it's also a rather empty and meaningless assertion. Maybe we don't know but it's also not our job to find out; that means you need to give evidence (calcs, replays, etc.) that displays the effectiveness of your set. "What does the extra bulk allow you to set up on that the offensive spread doesn't?" "How does Haxorus still break down common defensive cores with the huge loss in power?" And so on. These are questions that need to be addressed.

In this case, it is not an unreasonable assumption that theorymon can sufficiently tell us that this Haxorus will not be effective. The bulk does not help it against ubiquitous defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Slowbro, and Unaware Clefable, which bypass its bulk with status or special rather than physical attacks. It wears itself down with Life Orb, working against its own purpose. Its pre-DD Speed is disappointing and severely limits its defensive utility, straining team building.

Perhaps these things are outweighed by your set's strengths. It doesn't make PlatDude or anyone else presumptuous or arrogant to point these things out or express skepticism at the effectiveness of your Haxorus build. (What is presumptuous is saying that these things do not matter because we have not tested the set, which is akin to saying that I am not qualified speak about hangover symptoms because I have never consumed alcohol.) If your set has advantages that we have not considered, that's excellent! But you need to present them in a more convincing manner.
 
Anti said:
You're not wrong to cite the importance of experience, but you're perpetuating a false dichotomy (or false mutual exclusivity) between knowledge and experience when really, both of these things are important.

If you think the set is good, that's fine, but as with any argument being presented, you have to give evidence as to why it's a good set. Saying "you never know" isn't incorrect, but it's also a rather empty and meaningless assertion. Maybe we don't know but it's also not our job to find out; that means you need to give evidence (calcs, replays, etc.) that displays the effectiveness of your set. "What does the extra bulk allow you to set up on that the offensive spread doesn't?" "How does Haxorus still break down common defensive cores with the huge loss in power?" And so on. These are questions that need to be addressed.

In this case, it is not an unreasonable assumption that theorymon can sufficiently tell us that this Haxorus will not be effective. The bulk does not help it against ubiquitous defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Slowbro, and Unaware Clefable, which bypass its bulk with status or special rather than physical attacks. It wears itself down with Life Orb, working against its own purpose. Its pre-DD Speed is disappointing and severely limits its defensive utility, straining team building.

Perhaps these things are outweighed by your set's strengths. It doesn't make PlatDude or anyone else presumptuous or arrogant to point these things out or express skepticism at the effectiveness of your Haxorus build. (What is presumptuous is saying that these things do not matter because we have not tested the set, which is akin to saying that I am not qualified speak about hangover symptoms because I have never consumed alcohol.) If your set has advantages that we have not considered, that's excellent! But you need to present them in a more convincing manner.
Click to expand...

Update: I have finally tested this Haxorus and I can safely say that (as it's very defensive) it's managed to tank enough hits to set up a few stacks of DD, counteracting the lack of ATK/SPE investment. Usually. It can't take any supereffective special hits, but it has survived the likes of Dragon Claw and Ice Punch with a little HP left.
Another little detail I found was that since it has so many resistances, its bulk is improved even more and some enemies have even been known to switch out into something better, giving me another turn to set up DD. On average I've been able to set up 2 DD's per match thanks to Haxorus's bulk - thus, its speed and attack are doubled and the lack of EVs doesn't matter. With one dance, its attack climbs to about 200-ish and its speed gets to about 160. With two boosts, both its speed and attack climb well over 200.

Since I haven't already, I should probably explain why I chose to train a Haxorus this way (by ignoring its best stats). It's an idea I found on a channel called TheNationalDex (they rock) - often, they present strategies like this. They take a Pokemon and EV train it in a couple of stats (usually defensive ones) and make up for the lack of other investments with moves like Bulk Up (Hawlucha, which was fully invested in HP and SP.DEF) or Swords Dance (Scizor, with the same stat spread as Hawlucha). You see?
 
Khaotic Kebab said:
Update: I have finally tested this Haxorus and I can safely say that (as it's very defensive) it's managed to tank enough hits to set up a few stacks of DD, counteracting the lack of ATK/SPE investment. Usually. It can't take any supereffective special hits, but it has survived the likes of Dragon Claw and Ice Punch with a little HP left.
Another little detail I found was that since it has so many resistances, its bulk is improved even more and some enemies have even been known to switch out into something better, giving me another turn to set up DD. On average I've been able to set up 2 DD's per match thanks to Haxorus's bulk - thus, its speed and attack are doubled and the lack of EVs doesn't matter. With one dance, its attack climbs to about 200-ish and its speed gets to about 160. With two boosts, both its speed and attack climb well over 200.

Since I haven't already, I should probably explain why I chose to train a Haxorus this way (by ignoring its best stats). It's an idea I found on a channel called TheNationalDex (they rock) - often, they present strategies like this. They take a Pokemon and EV train it in a couple of stats (usually defensive ones) and make up for the lack of other investments with moves like Bulk Up (Hawlucha, which was fully invested in HP and SP.DEF) or Swords Dance (Scizor, with the same stat spread as Hawlucha). You see?
Click to expand...

I'm glad it's working for you, but it's still not a convincing argument. Of course, you don't have to convince us of anything. Just hold back on calling people arrogant or closed-minded because they don't think the set is good.
 
Khaotic Kebab said:
Update: I have finally tested this Haxorus and I can safely say that (as it's very defensive) it's managed to tank enough hits to set up a few stacks of DD, counteracting the lack of ATK/SPE investment. Usually. It can't take any supereffective special hits, but it has survived the likes of Dragon Claw and Ice Punch with a little HP left.
Another little detail I found was that since it has so many resistances, its bulk is improved even more and some enemies have even been known to switch out into something better, giving me another turn to set up DD. On average I've been able to set up 2 DD's per match thanks to Haxorus's bulk - thus, its speed and attack are doubled and the lack of EVs doesn't matter. With one dance, its attack climbs to about 200-ish and its speed gets to about 160. With two boosts, both its speed and attack climb well over 200.

Since I haven't already, I should probably explain why I chose to train a Haxorus this way (by ignoring its best stats). It's an idea I found on a channel called TheNationalDex (they rock) - often, they present strategies like this. They take a Pokemon and EV train it in a couple of stats (usually defensive ones) and make up for the lack of other investments with moves like Bulk Up (Hawlucha, which was fully invested in HP and SP.DEF) or Swords Dance (Scizor, with the same stat spread as Hawlucha). You see?
Click to expand...
I still have my doubts that this sort of things work, mainly not focusing on a Pokemon's strongest points. You're just making that Pokemon worse at what it does best, like not focusing on offensive stats when its stats, typing and move pool lean towards attacking (like Haxorus; it lacks the bulk to get more than 2 Dragon Dances in; Mega Altaria does this better because it has the bulk to do so). Some Pokemon, like Talonflame, can actually breach this for the reasons Dark_Azelf state (ability to check prominent threats). Even with max HP, max Defense, Haxorus still has trouble taking super effective hits:

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Haxorus: 234-276 (65.7 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Haxorus: 276-326 (77.5 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Haxorus: 306-360 (85.9 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
 
Moveset recommendations for Special Dragonite?

So far this is what I have for a Special Attacking Dragonite:
Dragonite(Toothless) @ Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
252 SpAtk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Hp
31 Ivs: SpAtk/SpDef/Def/Hp/Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball

Im making this a themed type Dragonite and am naming him Toothless. So Shadow Ball is a must and I know Draco Meteor is a must on any dragon type special attacker. But what else can I use that would fit with Toothless from How to train your dragon?
 
Dragonite can't even learn Shadow Ball. >_>

Physical Dragonite is better than special Dragonite because Dragonite has higher Attack and a physical boosting move in Dragon Dance. While Dragonite's special move pool is good, its Special Attack is somewhat underwhelming to take advantage of it, but if you insist:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunder Wave
-Roost
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale

Dragonite can also go mixed:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Superpower
-Roost/Extreme Speed
Nature: Mild/Rash
EVs: 76 Atk/252 SAtk/180 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
 
PlatinumDude said:
Dragonite can't even learn Shadow Ball. >_>

Physical Dragonite is better than special Dragonite because Dragonite has higher Attack and a physical boosting move in Dragon Dance. While Dragonite's special move pool is good, its Special Attack is somewhat underwhelming to take advantage of it, but if you insist:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Thunder Wave
-Roost
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale

Dragonite can also go mixed:
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Superpower
-Roost/Extreme Speed
Nature: Mild/Rash
EVs: 76 Atk/252 SAtk/180 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
Click to expand...

Yeah I didn't check on the move set before I posted I was just kinda hoping it could learn it because Toothless uses an attack like that. And I know Physical is better but I want to use a special set and am looking for recommendations on a Special Attacker.
 
Last edited:
So... During an online battle, there's a timer for choosing attacks, right? What happens if that timer runs out? Will the battle end or will the game choose a random attack? I ask 'cause I'm currently battling someone who's really draining all the 99 second time limit for choosing an attack... 2 more PKMN to KO and only 30 minutes left in the clock... Ugh... >.>
 
destinedjagold said:
So... During an online battle, there's a timer for choosing attacks, right? What happens if that timer runs out? Will the battle end or will the game choose a random attack? I ask 'cause I'm currently battling someone who's really draining all the 99 second time limit for choosing an attack... 2 more PKMN to KO and only 30 minutes left in the clock... Ugh... >.>
Click to expand...

The game will pick a random move for you if the time limit of choosing attacks runs out.
 
Zekrom said:
Can you get away with using Earthquake instead of Precipice Blades on offensive SR P Dongers? The 85% accuracy is starting to annoy me a bit.
Click to expand...

I don't play Ubers but I guess you need to ask yourself whether there will be any key OHKOs/2HKOs that you're going to miss out on. Your best bet in finding out without actually batting is using the One vs All damage calculator and see if there are any key differences in between.
 
Sheer Force @Life Orb Feraligatr

Waterfall or Aqua Jet? Waterfall hits way harder and has a flinch chance, but with the L.O and Sheer Force Aqua Jet goes up to something like 140 base power (including STAB). Could be wrong, I'm not the best at maths.
Point is, it hits freaking hard and has priority - neat. Also, it'd let Feraligatr be a revenge killer as well as a sweeper.
It also has DD.
 
Sheer Force @Life Orb Feraligatr

Waterfall or Aqua Jet? Waterfall hits way harder and has a flinch chance, but with the L.O and Sheer Force Aqua Jet goes up to something like 140 base power (including STAB). Could be wrong, I'm not the best at maths.
Point is, it hits freaking hard and has priority - neat. Also, it'd let Feraligatr be a revenge killer as well as a sweeper.
It also has DD.
 
So I'm planning on making a Trick Room team for Battle Maison Multi Battles, so I need two Megas for it (already decided that one of them will be Mega Camerupt) and two non-megas. I think one of the non-megas will be Bronzong:

Bronzong @ Air Ballon
Ability: Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 152 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion
- Earthquake

What can I have for the other two (one non-mega and one Mega)?

And is it okay if Bronzong doesn't have 0 in Speed IV? I think that'd be hard to breed for and I think just not having 31 in Speed would be satisfactory.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top