New Generation of Conservatives on the Rise

[Kanzler]

I don't know what country this article is referencing but assuming it's a sourced, empirically supported article (It probably isn't, lmao) I doubt it's the USA. Demographically speaking, the US is becoming less religious, more urban, and the racial gap is closing, rapidly. The USA is gradually becoming more multicultural, and let's not forget that in the last decade or so, sport for same-sex marriage, social rights, etc., has ballooned. Gay Marriage, as an issue, arguably sunk John Kerry's Presidential Bid in 2004 but reinforced Obama in 2008, and 2012 and in the midterms since so I really don't get the logic here, because I don't see a serious study or definable trends. All of those things do not make for a more conservative society. Do your research before you post.

I don't think that's a fair assessment on the OP. Certainly social movements can occur and gain steam in spite of and in reaction against the mainstream trends. The study being mentioned might be taking note of a movement that's just beginning to get on a roll - whether for certain nobody knows - but it's precisely that nobody saw it coming that makes it so novel. And the study is about Generation Z, which is just beginning to be politically socialised and so far cannot even vote - perhaps haven't even taking American Politics as a high school course, so based on your criteria for what signifies political influence, of course you're not going to see any trends. Lastly, the OP and the study itself is about specific generations and not about the overarching trend in society so it's not fair to suggest that the OP made a claim about that either way.

 

[Mewtwolover]

Source: http://heatst.com/world/a-new-generation-of-conservatives-is-on-the-rise-study-finds/

Found this article while I was watching one of Computing Forever's recent youtube videos. While this sounds like a good thing for the anti-drug groups, I dunno if this means that Generation Z would try to outlaw same-sex marriage again.

That study doesn't mean anything, it's just what you can expect to see on Heat Street because it's aimed to conservatives: http://www.thewrap.com/rupert-murdochs-news-corp-launching-libertarian-website-heat-street/

I don't know what country this article is referencing but assuming it's a sourced, empirically supported article (It probably isn't, lmao)

It isn't, note that the sampling (how many people answered the survey) isn't mentioned anywhere in the article.

 

[Somewhere_]

I dont know if this thread is all too relevant anymore, but its been under a month. I have a great article explaining more about the Alternative-Right and its relation to Donald Trump.

http://returnofvirtue.com/the-truth-about-the-altright-and-the-future-of-right-wing-politics/

 

[Kanzler]

Sounds like you can't have alt-right without putting white people on top of everybody again - that really sounds like what they're going for.

 

[Somewhere_]

Sounds like you can't have alt-right without putting white people on top of everybody again - that really sounds like what they're going for.

I think you misconstrued the article. While the movement was founded by a white supremacist, the great majority within the movement are not white supremacist. It is Western-culture supremacist. There is a huge difference.

 

[Aliencommander1245]

I think you misconstrued the article. While the movement was founded by a white supremacist, the great majority within the movement are not white supremacist. It is Western-culture supremacist. There is a huge difference.

I don't really agree with this, there's intrinsic elements of white supremacy within western-culture supremacy, as well as nationalism and the alt-right community is pretty entrenched in racism/homophobia ect as a natural progression of right-convservatism unbound to the general rules of public discourse.

The article doesn't mean a lot considering it's looking at people who're 15 and under, how many unaffected 12 y/o's are politically aware or have any interest in things like gay rights?

 

[Kanzler]

I think you misconstrued the article. While the movement was founded by a white supremacist, the great majority within the movement are not white supremacist. It is Western-culture supremacist. There is a huge difference.

What's the difference?

It says: "Their main objective is to restore a white identity that America once had and resist multiculturalism. They would like all races to keep their identity and have their own cultures."

 

[Somewhere_]

Nationalism is about having your own culture. Different ethnicities simply TEND to have different cultures, which is why western culture supremacy is often conflated with white supremacy. However, the United States has its own identity, but still has a culture (its changing now and is different in various areas). The Alt-Right only wants immigrants to accept western normalities and values, etc. They are also consistent in their nationalism. They support nationalism for every country, caucasian, african, asian, etc.

 

[Esper]

Nationalism is about having your own culture. Different ethnicities simply TEND to have different cultures, which is why western culture supremacy is often conflated with white supremacy. However, the United States has its own identity, but still has a culture (its changing now and is different in various areas). The Alt-Right only wants immigrants to accept western normalities and values, etc.

But everyone already has their own culture. I mean, most of the time people who argue that "those people" don't belong is because they have a different culture from "ours". But that just means that both groups have cultures. Everyone does. Isn't that enough?

Why does everyone within the same borders have the share the exact same culture? I mean, if you have someone immigrating to the U.S. and they accept America's laws (which are often an extension of "American" culture anyway) then isn't that enough? The whole idea of America is that, while it has values and traditions, it is a melting pot, a place for everyone. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." The country values freedom of expression and religion - so why shouldn't any American or potential American feel free to express themselves through a culture or religion that isn't part of the mainstream? If they accept someone else's right to express themselves, and they obey the law, then what does anyone have to complain about?

They support nationalism for every country, caucasian, african, asian, etc.

Might one be forgiven for thinking that this is merely code for "those non-whites should go back to wherever they came from." And that, particularly for people whose ancestors were enslaved, it is a particularly galling thing to feel like your (presumably white) neighbors believe this?

 

[Somewhere_]

But everyone already has their own culture. I mean, most of the time people who argue that "those people" don't belong is because they have a different culture from "ours". But that just means that both groups have cultures. Everyone does. Isn't that enough?

Why does everyone within the same borders have the share the exact same culture? I mean, if you have someone immigrating to the U.S. and they accept America's laws (which are often an extension of "American" culture anyway) then isn't that enough? The whole idea of America is that, while it has values and traditions, it is a melting pot, a place for everyone. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." The country values freedom of expression and religion - so why shouldn't any American or potential American feel free to express themselves through a culture or religion that isn't part of the mainstream? If they accept someone else's right to express themselves, and they obey the law, then what does anyone have to complain about?


Might one be forgiven for thinking that this is merely code for "those non-whites should go back to wherever they came from." And that, particularly for people whose ancestors were enslaved, it is a particularly galling thing to feel like your (presumably white) neighbors believe this?

I do not agree with the Alt-Right, so the things i list I may or may not agree with. Please do not conflate me with white supremacy or anti-immigration.

What I mean by respecting the norms is voluntarily participating. Its socially enforced, not enforced by the laws of the government.

And the code you mentioned about non-whites being kicked out. When talking about black-white relations, Alt-Rightists do not believe in separating the two groups because they are a part of the same culture. However, kicking out illegal immigrants is a different story. Stopping illegal immigration is for retaining culture, saving money (illegal immigrants take out more than they pay in), etc.

Being fairly entrenched in the Alt-Right community, from what i have gathered and experienced, the culture deal is about producing certain political means. For example, immigrants from 3rd world countries have a different culture from the United States, tending to vote for bigger government than native born US citizens. There is an anti-authoritarian aspect to being western culture centric.

Another aspect is being anti-globalist. Multiculturalism breeds globalism and giving sovereign power to foreign leaders, like the EU.

To the more free market Alt-Rightists, open borders are viewed as an assault on private property.

Alt-rightists also believe multiculturalism breeds social distrust and conflict. They are nationalists, meaning every group can have their own culture, but being separate is best. When the groups engage in trade, they are not fighting, but when they are forcefully mixed (see assault on private property above), they do not get along.

There are probably some other stuff, but those are the major points.

 

[Kanzler]

To the more free market Alt-Rightists, open borders are viewed as an assault on private property.

What.

 

[Somewhere_]

What.

Its more the libertarian part of the Alt-Right. Ill link you to some articles explaining it. I know it sounds crazy lol. Basically:

1) Borders are either forced exclusion or forced integration

2) With forceful integration, private property owners cannot deny service or restrict movement (public roads, etc)

The following essays are not by Alt-Rightists, but they make the same argument as the subgroup of Alt-Rightists that believe open borders are an assault on private property. The group I'm referencing is the paleolibertarians.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/hans-hermann-hoppe/on-free-immigration-and-forced-integration/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/lew-rockwell/open-borders-assault-private-property/

I got some other articles as well.

 

[Kanzler]

Its more the libertarian part of the Alt-Right. Ill link you to some articles explaining it. I know it sounds crazy lol. Basically:

1) Borders are either forced exclusion or forced integration

2) With forceful integration, private property owners cannot deny service or restrict movement (public roads, etc)

The following essays are not by Alt-Rightists, but they make the same argument as the subgroup of Alt-Rightists that believe open borders are an assault on private property. The group I'm referencing is the paleolibertarians.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/hans-hermann-hoppe/on-free-immigration-and-forced-integration/
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/lew-rockwell/open-borders-assault-private-property/

I got some other articles as well.

Wow, so apparently somebody exercising their freedom of movement constitutes "forced integration", and just because an immigrant uses public goods (public transit, roads, etc) I should have the right to determine whether they enter or leave the country. That's a bit ridiculous - the argument essentially boils down to "I have a veto to everything in this country because I pay taxes".

 

[Somewhere_]

Wow, so apparently somebody exercising their freedom of movement constitutes "forced integration", and just because an immigrant uses public goods (public transit, roads, etc) I should have the right to determine whether they enter or leave the country. That's a bit ridiculous - the argument essentially boils down to "I have a veto to everything in this country because I pay taxes".

Did you read them? The argument has nothing to do with taxation, unless you count the part on welfare in the second part. And they were written by anarchists.... they aren't fans of taxation...

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I'm surprised that the alt-rights respect other cultures, because I keep seeing U.S. culture online shaming on Japanese culture outside of U.S. borders for supporting whale hunting and sexualized minors in manga/anime/video games, both being morally wrong in their eyes, so they're trying to pressure them to abandon their own culture and adopt U.S. culture in order to be "normalized." I even seen plenty of comments from them suggesting a third nuke of all solutions. >_>

 

[Somewhere_]

I'm surprised that the alt-rights respect other cultures, because I keep seeing U.S. culture online shaming on Japanese culture outside of U.S. borders for supporting whale hunting and sexualized minors in manga/anime/video games, both being morally wrong in their eyes, so they're trying to pressure them to abandon their own culture and adopt U.S. culture in order to be "normalized." I even seen plenty of comments from them suggesting a third nuke of all solutions. >_>

They respect their sovereignty because they are nationalists, but they are still western culture supremacists. So the Alt-Right thinks their cultures is far better and labels many different things about other cultures as "degenerate," "uncivilized," etc. They think their own culture is better, but they only want other people to adopt it when they move into a western country.

There is a ton of anime hating in the Alt-Right community- probably because of the pedophilia, incest, and ecchi scenes, plot lines, and characters. The Alt-Right is also extremely anti-pornography which probably explains it. I dont think they realize anime and manga has more than just those genres. I am unaware of the whale hunting stuff.

I am 100% sure the nuke part is joking, but there are some interventionists within the Alt-Right. But there are also many noninterventionists and those calling for a mixed foreign policy. The Alt-Right has separate themselves from Neo-Conservativism intentionally, which is very interventionist. I highly doubt nuking other cultures for being "inferior" is on the agenda for the Alt-Right.

 

[Kanzler]

"Culture" supremacism and the judging of other cultures as inferior and degenerate sounds like racism by another name. Doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I believe most young conservatives are of the libertarian variety, as in socially tolerant and more concerned with fiscal conservatism, civil liberties, limiting the size of government, etc. This is evidenced by how popular Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are among millenials.

 

[Kanzler]

I believe most young conservatives are of the libertarian variety, as in socially tolerant and more concerned with fiscal conservatism, civil liberties, limiting the size of government, etc. This is evidenced by how popular Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are among millenials.

Apparently, then, there will be a struggle between the alt-right and the libertarian-minded for the future of the conservative movement in America.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Apparently, then, there will be a struggle between the alt-right and the libertarian-minded for the future of the conservative movement in America.

I believe the religious right and neoconservative segments of the GOP are fading away. It's not that young conservatives aren't religious, but aren't as concerned with imposing their religious views on other via legislation. The main exception to this rule is most young conservatives are still pro-life.

Studies have shown that millenials who identify as Republicans are more tolerant of the LGBT community. etc., but are even more adamantly pro-life than older Republicans. We are also adamant about gun rights, but on the hand, most of use are in favor of less strict drug (especially marijuana) laws. I'd say the immigration issue is about an even split.