Occupy Wall Street

FreakyLocz14 said:
I'd take a $4 an hour job if I wan dirt poor and was currently making $0 an hour. If nobody wants to work at those wages, the free market will force employers to provide higher wages or they won't have any employees.
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The free market works both ways. It will either conform to the people, or force the people to conform to it.

But your statement is exactly my point. People WOULD accept the dirt poor pay only because making $4 dollars an hour is better then making $0 dollars an hour.

But still, I'm not talking about the poor. I'm talking about the average American person... You know, house and car payments and all that stuff?
 
Mr. X said:
The free market works both ways. It will either conform to the people, or force the people to conform to it.

But your statement is exactly my point. People WOULD accept the dirt poor pay only because making $4 dollars an hour is better then making $0 dollars an hour.

But still, I'm not talking about the poor. I'm talking about the average American person... You know, house and car payments and all that stuff?
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That's what contract law is for. Many companies deal with labor unions. They negotiate wages, benefits, work conditions, etc. and enter into legally binding contracts. These are regulations that the private parties agree to, not regulations that the government forces on them.
 
And without regulations that force the corporations to work with the labor unions?

Unless we have those, then the corps can just disregard unions completely.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
If we want to create jobs, we need to lower taxes on the top income earners, cut regulations on job creators, and allow people to spend money to stimulate the economy.
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I can see an argument for lowering corporate taxes or reducing red tape to be competitive on the foreign market (well... for those who are presently legitimately paying taxes instead of jumping through loop holes to pay nothing anyway). But not for individual top income earners.

The middle class is where the tax cuts should be. They're the ones who buy stuff. They're the ones who haven't seen their incomes raised in thirty years. Top income earners need their taxes raised. They buy expensive things, but they don't buy frequently. The middle class does. So, lowering the top earner's taxes won't get the real purchasers out buying things. All it would accomplish is giving the top earners more money that they don't need and that money comes out of the system that could go to things like infrastructure projects that would create jobs.

FreakyLocz14 said:
I'd take a $4 an hour job if I wan dirt poor and was currently making $0 an hour.
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I would too. But, you can't survive on that. It's a bit like working to get nowhere.
 
Mr. X said:
And without regulations that force the corporations to work with the labor unions?

Unless we have those, then the corps can just disregard unions completely.
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They can't if they require skilled workers that organize. They won't be able to hire anybody if nobody is willing to work for them.

P.S.
Your new emblem creeped me out when I first saw it.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
They can't if they require skilled workers that organize. They won't be able to hire anybody if nobody is willing to work for them.
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They won't hire anyone in North America anyway.

I don't think the current problems are easily fixable. So long as its possible for a company to up and leave and move to China because they don't have to pay employees there a fare wage, then there's no hope. Increasingly jobs will disappear. There is no incentive for companies to stay and no penalty if they leave. The cycle will continue until they hit the point that people in North America just have crap jobs can't afford to buy the products being made in China. That's when the companies wallets will be hit, but then it will be too late.
 
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TRIFORCE89 said:

They won't here anyone in North America anyway.

I don't think the current problems are easily fixable. So long as its possible for a company to up and leave and move to China because they don't have to pay employees there a fare wage, then there's no hope. Increasingly jobs will disappear. There is no incentive for companies to stay and no penalty if they leave. The cycle will continue until they hit the point that people in North America just have crap jobs can't afford to buy the products being made in China. That's when the companies wallets will be hit, but then it will be too late.
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What we need to do is deregulate so that we're just as cheap to hire workers as China. That way, it won't be worth the costs to move operations there.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
They can't if they require skilled workers that organize. They won't be able to hire anybody if nobody is willing to work for them.

P.S.
Your new emblem creeped me out when I first saw it.
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Morphing Jar #2. (If I remember right...) The ha ha ha isn't related to it, but thats the first thing that came to mind when I looked at that picture. I was orginally thinking "I see you." or "Look deeply into my eye." but I figured ha ha ha would be... slightly creepier.

I had another in mind, much... nicer (It was mostly pink) but it refused to upload. It was a mudkip with a valantine in its mouth, the background was pink with red hearts, and it said I liek you too.

But back to topic.

And that is where the attrition starts. What side do you think has the connections, means, and resources needed to outlast the other? I dislike most corps, but my vote goes to them for this.

Edit - Read my post a couple above. The one that lists some regulations that other countries might not/don't have.
 
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Mr. X said:
And that is where the attrition starts. What side do you think has the connections, means, and resources needed to outlast the other? I hate most corps, but my vote goes to them for this.
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Jobs that don't require skilled workers will be able to just hire the next person in line who's willing to play along, but jobs that require certain skills are quite different. They may have difficulty finding workers since the people who have those skills likely invest considerable time, energy, and often money attaining said skills.
 
Again, what side has the connections, means, and resources to outlast the other?

Given the fact that some people will play along, its the corps and 1%.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
What we need to do is deregulate so that we're just as cheap to hire workers as China. That way, it won't be worth the costs to move operations there.
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You could deregulate all you want. But they still have the advantage since they get to play employees dirt over there.

Wages haven't increased for the middle class in 30 years, and even with extensive deregulation, China will still have the edge. As long as people have to be paid, corporations will not want to stay here.

Some removal of red tape is okay. But keep in mind regulations can also involve safety standards and environmental protection.
 
TRIFORCE89 said:

You could deregulate all you want. But they still have the advantage since they get to play employees dirt over there.

Wages haven't increased for the middle class in 30 years, and even with extensive deregulation, China will still have the edge. As long as people have to be paid, corporations will not want to stay here.

Some removal of red tape is okay. But keep in mind regulations can also involve safety standards and environmental protection.
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The minimum wage has increased. States can also set minimum wages. State-level minimum wages have gone up.

Safety standards are some of the few regulations I can understand. Environmental protections, no.
 
So Americans should work under the same conditions with the same wage, as say, children in China? O_O This isn't "Life sucks because it does, get over it." It's "Life sucks because of the greed of few, let's change that."
 
Keiran777 said:
So Americans should work under the same conditions with the same wage, as say, children in China? O_O This isn't "Life sucks because it does, get over it." It's "Life sucks because of the greed of few, let's change that."
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As an american I can say we've all become a bunch of greedy spoiled selfish pigs who need to be whacked with a baseball bat. If you are a poor american you wont get no where in life while constant opportunities are given to those who really don't want, deserve or need it...
 
Keiran777 said:
So Americans should work under the same conditions with the same wage, as say, children in China? O_O This isn't "Life sucks because it does, get over it." It's "Life sucks because of the greed of few, let's change that."
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Exactly how are you going to do that? Even if you want to enact laws, you have to get Congress to do it. Congress is bought and paid for by the very people you consider greedy. I asked if OWSers want to run for office, and I was told no.

What gives?
 
Cowards the lot of them. To scared to try and change the system, so they'd rather ***** and moan until the 1% get tired of them and finally give them a handful of breadcrumbs.

I dislike the Tea Party, more specifically, what it has become but still, I have a little respect for them because they have/had (The TP now isn't what is originally started as so I really don't know what tense you use for this) the courage to stand up and attempt to change the system from the inside.
 
We should abolish the Federal Reserve. Why does that help OWSers?

When you debase the currency by borrowing and inflating by printing money backed by nothing, the control of wealth is transferred from the middle class to the upper class.
 
It's a global economy.

While we are a power in it, we don't have enough power to force compliance/change from the other groups. While this would cut inflation, short term, unless all the other countries do their equilivent of our actions then inflation would be back in a couple years.

Edit - China owns (I think) the majority of our debt. I'm pretty sure that that makes China, in a sence, the owners of this nation.
 
Mr. X said:
It's a global economy.

While we are a power in it, we don't have enough power to force compliance/change from the other groups. While this would cut inflation, short term, unless all the other countries do their equilivent of our actions then inflation would be back in a couple years.

Edit - Don't understand the hate against China. They are, techincally, our owners since they own (I think) the largest portion of our debt.
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The Fed is actually harming our place in the international market. Every time the Fed prints money, the overall vale of the dollar goes down. Recent talks of discontinuing international trade in dollars is a result of this.

Also, who gets to use the money that's printed? Certainly not you and I. It's a predictable consequence that when we print money out of thin air, certain people benefit from it and certain people suffer the inflation it causes. The people that get to use the money first like the military industrial complex make a lot of money off of it and benefit while the middle class suffers.
 
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