Pokémon Essentials Diamond and Pearl Moves & Abilities Project

[Wichu]

To be honest, I don't think allowing people with only minimal scripting knowledge (or none at all) to test it is the best idea... (or maybe that's just me)

 

[mad.array]

I would advise everyone to read this!!!

I chose the approach of seeing who came across as the most trustworthy/who came first over them having extensive scripting knowledge. Whether that will work in my favour remains to be seen. Maybe I should have left the testers an encrypted version, but that would have resulted in them not being able to change the encounters as necessary for this level of testing. I agree that giving it to just anyone is a bad idea but all of the people who have agreed to test have also agreed not to distribute any of the code to other parties and if anyone plans on using it in their own project without a decent scripting background then they won't get the complete package.

Once the project is complete then candidates will be required to show scripting knowledge, but anyone who tests will get the complete version as a sign of appreciation... so long as they can provide decent/constructive feedback. People who agree to test and never give me anything but questions on how to implement the project in their own game will NOT be getting the complete package.

On the other hand, those who don't have scripting knowledge will get a basic version and an introductory guide on how to implement some of the moves, which will hopefully serve to give them a taste of how they could fill in the gaps/make their own moves. Far be it from me to pick and choose who gets what, I just feel that while a lack of knowledge isn't a reason not to use something that somebody else has made, I also think that an effort should be made to learn rather than relying on others.

I'm sorry if that seems as if it's a dig at you wichu, it wasn't intended that way. I'm just trying to show that I'm not being irresponsible in who gets this, while at the same time encouraging others to learn. I'm sorry if it came off as elitist as that wasn't my intention. I appreciate all of the support this is getting and I'm hoping to be able to help as many people as possible whilst encouraging people to learn RGSS at the same time, so that they can improve their own games.

I'll hopefully be on this weekend for a proper update, so long as things calm down this end.

 

[Wichu]

I might be able to write a guide explaining basic RGSS and how to implement new move effects...

 

[mad.array]

If you'd be willing then that'd be great. I know you have other commitments such as Amethyst and I don't want to trouble you too much, but at least it's getting information to people who are serious about learning. Thanks again (I can't seem to say that enough to you!)

 

[Forever Forbidden]

As a quick a quick morale boost for anyone wanting to help, can you tell us about how much as a % its done as of yet?

 

[Mrchewy]

Jonny, all progress has been outlined in the first post. I suggest you read it before posting next time ^^.

 

[mad.array]

The front page isn't accurate any more, but I should have a bit of time on Sunday to go through everything and do a proper update. I'll be hungover like you wouldn't believe, but it'll do me good =P.

As for the comment on the movies... well what can I say? It's not really relevant to the thread, but I'll take your word for it, I was always more interested in being the trainer than watching the series/films.

 

[Hall Of Famer]

Can't wait for the release!

 

[Maruno]

I would advise everyone to read this!!!

I chose the approach of seeing who came across as the most trustworthy/who came first over them having extensive scripting knowledge. Whether that will work in my favour remains to be seen. Maybe I should have left the testers an encrypted version, but that would have resulted in them not being able to change the encounters as necessary for this level of testing. I agree that giving it to just anyone is a bad idea but all of the people who have agreed to test have also agreed not to distribute any of the code to other parties and if anyone plans on using it in their own project without a decent scripting background then they won't get the complete package.

Once the project is complete then candidates will be required to show scripting knowledge, but anyone who tests will get the complete version as a sign of appreciation... so long as they can provide decent/constructive feedback. People who agree to test and never give me anything but questions on how to implement the project in their own game will NOT be getting the complete package.

On the other hand, those who don't have scripting knowledge will get a basic version and an introductory guide on how to implement some of the moves, which will hopefully serve to give them a taste of how they could fill in the gaps/make their own moves. Far be it from me to pick and choose who gets what, I just feel that while a lack of knowledge isn't a reason not to use something that somebody else has made, I also think that an effort should be made to learn rather than relying on others.

I'm sorry if that seems as if it's a dig at you wichu, it wasn't intended that way. I'm just trying to show that I'm not being irresponsible in who gets this, while at the same time encouraging others to learn. I'm sorry if it came off as elitist as that wasn't my intention. I appreciate all of the support this is getting and I'm hoping to be able to help as many people as possible whilst encouraging people to learn RGSS at the same time, so that they can improve their own games.

I'll hopefully be on this weekend for a proper update, so long as things calm down this end.

Sounds good. A little elitist, I must admit - one could easily argue that giving novices only basic tools results in their estrangement from the world of Pokémon game-making more often than it does encourage them to work harder - but I see your point.

But that's not the point of this post. I wanted to ask two things:

1. How would the two options (full and basic) be laid out? Would the full have all the moves/abilities fully implemented and just require a copy'n'paste, and the basic version have a list of what the moves/abilities do and a pointer towards the parts of the script you need to write in?

2. How extensive are these additional moves/abilities in the scripts? Would it be a case of "you need to download a whole lot of stuff because there's tweaks all over the place"? Because I'm not sure whether to go ahead and start my game because I may face significant hassle later on trying to fit all this new stuff in amongst all my own scripts/tweaks.

I'm hoping I can qualify for the full version instead of the basic, even though this game would be my first experience with Ruby (but I'm a physics graduate whose final year project involved learning the language IDL, which was in addition to Fortran95 I learnt earlier for my degree, so I think I'm in a better position than most - I've got a good grip on the basics already, and all that's needed is the syntax). Having the full version would make things a bit simpler for me (although I will then promptly start changing things anyway - it's not going to be a "draw a dozen maps and go" affair).

 

[mad.array]

Maruno: Thanks for the feedback, I was expecting a lot of negative responses to that so it's nice to see a sensible, reasoned approach. Now to the questions:

1. You've essentially hit the nail on the head. The full version will be all of the moves and abilities whereas the basic version will be a currently undetermined percentage of said moves/abilities with a guide for implementing some of the others, which will hopefully teach people about the rgss language.

2. Initially, I will start with a list of files that will need to be copied to your project to get the project integrated into your own game. This will include, at least, the scripts.rxdata file, some graphics files and some of the pbs files. This will only work for people who haven't modified the scripts or pbs files at all though, so I will try to include a doc file which lists the sections of code required to be copied across if the scripts have already been modified. This seems unlikely to happen on the initial release as there have been some extensive script changes in wichus code which will need to be checked thoroughly to ensure that I don't miss anything out. You can create your own game now but I would advise you not to edit anything in the scripts until release, or if you do, keep a log of what exactly you change so that you can put it into the release as and when it becomes available.

I hope you do qualify for the full version. I'm not going to be asking for a project that works out the meaning of life, or one that can operate your garage door from another solar system, just something that shows that you understand rgss and are using the project as a timesaving device rather than just getting it because you want it served to you on a silver platter (which I know you don't, it was just a general statement). Thank you for your time and questions.

LokiFerne.

 

[Maruno]

I'm not going to be asking for a project that works out the meaning of life, or one that can operate your garage door from another solar system...

Funny you should mention that...

Thanks for the swift response. I think for the moment I'll limit myself to testing out bits of script to try and make things look how I want them to, and only say I've started working on the actual game if/when I get your project's data. Experimenting will not only help me, but it'll be something to show you as proof I can manage something interesting.

Now if only new versions of Essentials didn't keep being released...

 

[Florio]

I would advise everyone to read this!!!

I chose the approach of seeing who came across as the most trustworthy/who came first over them having extensive scripting knowledge. Whether that will work in my favour remains to be seen. Maybe I should have left the testers an encrypted version, but that would have resulted in them not being able to change the encounters as necessary for this level of testing. I agree that giving it to just anyone is a bad idea but all of the people who have agreed to test have also agreed not to distribute any of the code to other parties and if anyone plans on using it in their own project without a decent scripting background then they won't get the complete package.

Once the project is complete then candidates will be required to show scripting knowledge, but anyone who tests will get the complete version as a sign of appreciation... so long as they can provide decent/constructive feedback. People who agree to test and never give me anything but questions on how to implement the project in their own game will NOT be getting the complete package.

On the other hand, those who don't have scripting knowledge will get a basic version and an introductory guide on how to implement some of the moves, which will hopefully serve to give them a taste of how they could fill in the gaps/make their own moves. Far be it from me to pick and choose who gets what, I just feel that while a lack of knowledge isn't a reason not to use something that somebody else has made, I also think that an effort should be made to learn rather than relying on others.

I'm sorry if that seems as if it's a dig at you wichu, it wasn't intended that way. I'm just trying to show that I'm not being irresponsible in who gets this, while at the same time encouraging others to learn. I'm sorry if it came off as elitist as that wasn't my intention. I appreciate all of the support this is getting and I'm hoping to be able to help as many people as possible whilst encouraging people to learn RGSS at the same time, so that they can improve their own games.

I'll hopefully be on this weekend for a proper update, so long as things calm down this end.

Not that im trying to sound like a dick, but why would you give it to people who can already script? It would make more sense if you just gave it out to everyone, I thought this world was supposed to be about sharing and caring! And everyone in the community has given out some important things (I plan on making move animations and releasing them) you should give people things too!
I bet you someone is gonna call me an idiot for saying this but w.e

 

[Blazing Charizard]

Not that im trying to sound like a dick, but why would you give it to people who can already script? It would make more sense if you just gave it out to everyone, I thought this world was supposed to be about sharing and caring! And everyone in the community has given out some important things (I plan on making move animations and releasing them) you should give people things too!
I bet you someone is gonna call me an idiot for saying this but w.e

I think I do understand what you're saying. People who have already learned to script could implement those features themselves, but LokiFerne said:
"Just something that shows you understand rgss and are using the project as a timesaving device rather than just getting it because you want it served to you on a silver platter."
So if they are working hard on their project it would halt their project if they'd implement the new D/P moves... But since I'm a really bad scripter, who can only make a few things with RGSS (such as showing a world map...) I think I'd only be qualified for the basic version...

But I agree giving the complete package away to anyone would be a bad idea, because people will have a of 'template' for a pokemon game, so that they'll only have to make maps and events. That way the level of new fangames will sink... There will always be better projects made by people who can script a lot of stuff, but it would be a shame if only one out of ten projects showed some quality.

 

[mad.array]

Maruno: Well I look forward to seeing what you come up with =)

Florio: Blazing Charizard pretty much said it all. I'm not going to call you an idiot because it's not a case of either of us being right or wrong, it's just a matter of opinion.

 

[mad.array]

Ok, the main post has been updated. The most important thing on it is an update on the basic/complete idea. While some people agree that there should be some degree of scripting knowledge required to receive the file, others don't. So, a compromise has been made. The receipt of the complete version will now rest on one of two things. Firstly there is the scripting knowledge for those who have it, which has already been covered so I won't go through it again. But for those of you without such knowledge there is another option. If you have a project on the go (which meets the requirements of the project showcase forum) and it is a project of suitably high quality then you will qualify for the complete version. This is not to say that the project will now be given to anyone as there are some games in the forum that don't show a lot of thought/quality (No, I will NOT be naming those that I think fit that bill).

I hope that people can understand the logic behind this move and don't hold it against me. Thanks for following the project this far, I hope to hear feedback (preferably expletive free) soon =)

LokiFerne

(P.S. I'm currently looking for people to sprite Gen IV items in the Gen III style. Anyone who is interested please PM me)

 

[Florio]

Hey Loki, I'm sorry about my other post, it was just a bad day for me and I was kind of angry that you weren't going to give it out freely. Well maybe if my game becomes good enough you will give me the moves package, though i highly doubt it from my previous post.

 

[Blazing Charizard]

Ok, the main post has been updated. The most important thing on it is an update on the basic/complete idea. While some people agree that there should be some degree of scripting knowledge required to receive the file, others don't. So, a compromise has been made. The receipt of the complete version will now rest on one of two things. Firstly there is the scripting knowledge for those who have it, which has already been covered so I won't go through it again. But for those of you without such knowledge there is another option. If you have a project on the go (which meets the requirements of the project showcase forum) and it is a project of suitably high quality then you will qualify for the complete version. This is not to say that the project will now be given to anyone as there are some games in the forum that don't show a lot of thought/quality (No, I will NOT be naming those that I think fit that bill).

I hope that people can understand the logic behind this move and don't hold it against me. Thanks for following the project this far, I hope to hear feedback (preferably expletive free) soon =)

LokiFerne

(P.S. I'm currently looking for people to sprite Gen IV items in the Gen III style. Anyone who is interested please PM me)

Sounds like a good solution to me.
BTW, I could provide some items sprites from D/P if you want. I'd love to do something for this awesome project =D

 

[Wichu]

Actually, D/P use the same item sprites as FR/LG/E, and not a different style; I could easily get the D/P items in RMXP format if you want.

 

[Blazing Charizard]

Actually, D/P use the same item sprites as FR/LG/E, and not a different style; I could easily get the D/P items in RMXP format if you want.

Yeah, I meant the item sprites of the items from DP that aren't in the FR/LG series (like honey or the plates) :P
But anyway, it isn't hard to get those.

 

[mad.array]

Oh! So the sprites haven't changed size then? I was under the impression that as everything else had been resized for D/P that the items would have been as well. Not to worry then, I have the D/P sprites myself, I just thought they'd need resizing/recolouring.

Florio: Don't worry about it man. As long as you keep positive and focus on your project you should be fine. I didn't take it personally or anything, life's too short. Now you make sure you send me a link to your game when it gets going =)