Realism vs Fantasy

[BettyNewbie]

A discussion in another thread has got me thinking about Pokémon storylines, and how they've changed over the years.

The first two Generations had very small-scale, realistic storylines. Team Rocket were the kinds of villains who existed in real life, greedy capitalists who wanted money and power regardless of the consequences, and their means of doing so had real life analogs: theft (obvious), animal abuse (killing Marowak), illegal trafficking (Slowpoke Tails), environmental destruction (tearing up Mt. Moon for fossils and the pond in Celadon), corporate takeovers (Silph Co. and Radio Tower), and genetic engineering/scientific exploitation (Red Gyarados and possibly, Mewtwo). Sure, there were legendaries, but they weren't overly involved in the plot, and one of them (Mewtwo) was the product of science, not mythology.

Generations 3 and 4 went in a decidedly different direction. The plots took a far more fantastical turn and started becoming huge "save the world" epics. Magma, Aqua, and Galactic were far more detached from real life villainy than Rocket, with huge, lofty goals (ie. control over land/sea, control over the universe) straight out of the epic fantasy playbook. Legendaries not only started becoming more directly involved with the plot, but they became more numerous, in general (Gen 4 introduced more Legendaries than the first two Gens combined), and their basis became increasingly mythological and religious in origin (especially in Gen 4, which introduced a literal "god" Pokémon).

Generation 5, on the other hand, brought back some of the realism. While there were still tons of Legendaries, and the plot was still very involved, Plasma were far more realistic villains than the previous three. They were animal rights idealists turned extremists, which is also something you see in real life, and we saw a return of science to the story (ie. Genesect and the Kyurem fusions). Interestingly, this Generation's story is often considered to be the series' best.

And, then there's Generation 6... Which went into full-blown fairytale mode. Not only did we see the return of the original fantasy villains (Magma and Aqua), but we got a newcomer (Flare) who wanted to create a "beautiful world" by reactiviating a centuries-old "Ultimate Weapon" to eliminate all life but themselves (not only unrealistic, but also painstakingly generic, IMO). We now have 3000 year old giants and multi-dimensional time travelers, along with Mega Evolutions putting the already unrealistic plot of the Hoenn games even further off into fantasyland than they originally were. And, did I mention that we got literal Fairy Pokémon this Gen? This was the Generation that Pokémon literally became Zelda.

All of that being said... What kinds of storylines do you prefer? Do you like the more Zelda-esque direction the franchise is currently going in, or do you want something more realistic and science-based like Gens 1, 2, and 5? Do you want to see things brought back down to a smaller scale, or do you enjoy the "save the world" epics?

Myself, I prefer realism and smaller-scale stories. Villains like Magma, Aqua, and Galactic were so far removed from reality that it was impossible for me to even remotely take them seriously, and to be honest, I just prefer stories I can relate to. I've never been a huge fan of the epic fantasy genre, in general, and I'd rather not see Pokémon go in that direction. Future games would be better to use Rocket or Plasma as a model for storytelling instead of Magma, Aqua, Galactic, or Flare, IMO.

 

[Sloan Kettering]

Trying to mix the god pokemon into normal, technological societies is abnoxious and i've yet to play x and y, so i can't speak on those, but i definitely prefer it to be more realistic. I was hoping ORAS would punish Zinnia more for fighting science with superstition, leaving the player to save the world because she was wrong. I was also hoping the whole meteorite threat WOULD just turn out to be Deoxys traveling peacefully to Hoenn.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

I like a good balance between the two. Too much realism bores me, because I prefer worlds with fantasy/spiritual elements. But I also am not the hugest fan of all the stereotypes and cliches of a fantasy epic. I have to admit that I prefer I, II, and V's (especially V, which had the best story in my opinion) ways of telling the story.

Generation V had the best balance. There was still a fantasy element (Reshiram/Zekrom), but it was also about the characters, the human element. These legendaries represented things that were more abstract - ideals and truth. That really resonated with me.

That's one of the things about fantasy epics. They tend to focus more on a grand scale and leave the part of the story that I like most - the characters. The human element. Relationships between people aren't as significant if the entire world is going to be blown up. When is there time to explore the relationship between Pokemon and humans if Team Plasma wants to restart the universe?

There's nothing inherently bad about a save the world epic though. It can have absolutely fantastic characters and a real human element to it if done correctly. But I must admit that I veer moreso on the side of realism/science fiction with a few fantasy elements thrown in. Like a lot of human beings, it is easier for me to relate to the problems of a few people than the amorphous blob that is the entire world.

Also, I'm not one who likes the increasing amounts of Legendaries myself. It makes them seem less special in the long run. I think they should be less of the focus of the story. Using a legendary makes for an easy, cheap plot device. You can set up your whole story around them without having to think if you're not particularly skilled or creative. I would like to see themselves break free of the shackles of this pattern, and make Legendaries moreso as they were in Generations I and II - optional postgame content that only the strongest trainers can access. This would help to make them feel more rare, more mysterious, and more powerful. I don't want to simply be handed the guardian of death and life.

So I suppose I'll vote realism. Whilst X and Y didn't have a bad story, (in fact, I think with the new fantasy elements they introduced, there was a LOT of potential for a character driven narrative. Especially with AZ.) I still prefer Black and White. And it is my wish in the future that they emulate its style rather than taking what I consider to be a step backwards.

 

[Guardian]

I like both.
And honestly, there is a really thin line between real and fantasy. The more open mind one has, the better it is.
Anyway, a balance between those two.

 

[morrison]

I prefer it more realistic like gen 1 and 2 or 5.

 

[Megan]

It's not that I don't like a Fantasy like setting in Pokemon games, but my main problem with those stories (or main series stories in general) is the lack of immersion. With over 700 different Pokemon, including tons of legendaries, you'd think there's enough stuff to build an immersive world with tons of information about different Pokemon-lines, tons of NPCs talking about rumors (which just happen to be true), bookshelves with actually interesting books instead of generic Magazines that the protagonist doesn't care about reading and other siilar things.

When setting up a fantastic plot, you need lore and you need a lot of it. Just a couple of background infos on the local plot device main legendary don't really suffice and while I know that some games are more about show and not tell, the Pokemon games don't even do that right for the most part *cough*tutorials*cough*

The same can be said about the more realistic stories, too. Pokemon stories tend to be rather...plain, which is why I'd rather focus on gameplay and build my own meta stories.

But in terms of which of the two I prefer in Pokemon games: I'm fine with both; the Pokemon world is no reflection of our world, which allows more of a mix of the two.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I like a good balance between the two. Too much realism bores me, because I prefer worlds with fantasy/spiritual elements. But I also am not the hugest fan of all the stereotypes and cliches of a fantasy epic. I have to admit that I prefer I, II, and V's (especially V, which had the best story in my opinion) ways of telling the story.

Generation V had the best balance. There was still a fantasy element (Reshiram/Zekrom), but it was also about the characters, the human element. These legendaries represented things that were more abstract - ideals and truth. That really resonated with me.

That's one of the things about fantasy epics. They tend to focus more on a grand scale and leave the part of the story that I like most - the characters. The human element. Relationships between people aren't as significant if the entire world is going to be blown up. When is there time to explore the relationship between Pokemon and humans if Team Plasma wants to restart the universe?

There's nothing inherently bad about a save the world epic though. It can have absolutely fantastic characters and a real human element to it if done correctly. But I must admit that I veer moreso on the side of realism/science fiction with a few fantasy elements thrown in. Like a lot of human beings, it is easier for me to relate to the problems of a few people than the amorphous blob that is the entire world.

Also, I'm not one who likes the increasing amounts of Legendaries myself. It makes them seem less special in the long run. I think they should be less of the focus of the story. Using a legendary makes for an easy, cheap plot device. You can set up your whole story around them without having to think if you're not particularly skilled or creative. I would like to see themselves break free of the shackles of this pattern, and make Legendaries moreso as they were in Generations I and II - optional postgame content that only the strongest trainers can access. This would help to make them feel more rare, more mysterious, and more powerful. I don't want to simply be handed the guardian of death and life.

So I suppose I'll vote realism. Whilst X and Y didn't have a bad story, (in fact, I think with the new fantasy elements they introduced, there was a LOT of potential for a character driven narrative. Especially with AZ.) I still prefer Black and White. And it is my wish in the future that they emulate its style rather than taking what I consider to be a step backwards.

I very much agree with you here. My biggest problem with the epic fantasy genre, as a whole, is that characterization tends to take a backseat to worldbuilding, and like you, I see characters and character interaction as the best part of any given story.

I also agree with you about Gen 5's story being a good "middle ground." It was more detailed and involved than Gens 1 and 2, but it maintained the realism element. The villains were realistic, and characterization didn't take a backseat to "the world." And, while there were still many Legendaries, as you said, the Legendaries represented more abstract things like "ideals" and "truth" instead of being literal gods (like in Gen 4 and to a lesser extent, Gen 3), and some of them (like Genesect) were even science-based.

As I said, Gen 5 is usually considered to have the games' best storyline, so it's a shame that GF didn't continue with that thread in Gen 6. Like you, I feel like the newest games are a huge step backwards, storywise. (Realistic or fantastic, Team Flare are painfully generic and unoriginal villains. It's like they tried to merge Rocket and Plasma, but ended up with a bad knockoff of Magma/Aqua/Galactic, combining the worst of all three.)

 

[morrison]

lol Team Flare. They were more a parody of teams, going out in the most stylish way possible.. kind of jehovas witness like with fashion conscieousness. If a game carries on being made it is hard who to have as villians. Maybe a game without villians but options to make ? probs not possible.

 

[Oreanna]

I like both fantasy and realism, but it is often hard to mix the two. I think gen five did it right.

We could have nature be more antagonistic, like illness or a drought affecting the region.

 

[Cerberus87]

I don't think it's something you can choose, because Pokémon has been a blend of the two from the very start. Kanto's story was more realistic, but the Pokémon roster had a mix of fantastic (the legendary birds, for example) and technological (Mewtwo, various Poison and Electric Pokémon) elements.

The biggest failure with Hoenn's story is that it tried to shoehorn fantasy into a realistic plot and the result was a disaster. Because really, anyone who learns about global warming at school will know Team Magma/Aqua's goals were ridiculous. Their plans weren't believable at all.

Sinnoh, on the other hand, did the fantasy part right and mixed it with technology. Cyrus was able to replicate the Red Chain made with the lake trio's crystals with technology. So Team Galactic was at least partly technologically focused.

What I'd like to see is a steampunk Pokémon world, where people still used apricorns to catch Pokémon for example. That would be cool.

 

[Timbjerr]

The scale of realism vs. fantasy has very little bearing on my preference of a good villain not just in Pokémon, but in all media.

Ghetsis and Lysandre are my top two favorite Pokémon villains, and they're on opposite ends of the spectrum...albeit I love each of them for different reasons.

Ghetsis is just so obviously evil from the moment you meet him...his design, his leitmotif...everything about him screams "evil mastermind", but he spends his first several appearances in B/W preaching something genuinely sympathetic: Pokémon rights and liberation. As the player progresses further and further, you see shades of his duplicitous nature and go back to relying on your first impression. When the game officially reveals that he's secretly the brains behind Team Plasma, it's honestly not so shocking. This is mediated by the fact that they throw in other reveals that play him up as an even bigger asshole than you'd imagined. The strong implication that he abused N as a child and his refusal to even acknowledge that his "son" was human makes him startlingly creepy. Add to that his absolute arrogance leading to a psychotic breakdown after his defeat and you've got a villain that you come to genuinely hate and love to defeat over and over again despite having an objective as generic as "taking over the world".

Lysandre on the other hand, is much more sympathetic...even if he is batshit insane. He seems to genuinely believe that his methods are the only way to save a world on the brink of destruction at the hands of human exploitation. He even seems to regret the massive casualties that would incur, yet still forges on in spite of which. His post-defeat quote (at least in Y...I hear his dialogue is subtly different in X) probably says it all: "The ultimate weapon is a flower that bloomed to no avail... Just like me...". It shows a shade of self-pity, and given he sets off the ultimate weapon immediately afterward knowing he would die in the blast, but little else would be affected, shows at least some degree of suicidal depression. You came to really relate to him, and if his methods weren't so extreme, you feel like he could have made the world a better place.

Pardon my rambling...it's about thirty minutes after midnight here and I'm sipping on my third glass of champagne and listening to New Years fireworks go off in the distance as I type this. XD

 

[Hiatus]

Like almost everyone else, I also prefer a mixture between realism and fantasy. If there's too much of former, things would likely seem kind of stale, at least in my eyes, as they're... well, they are too realistic. If there's too much of latter, we probably wouldn't find ourselves liking it much, either, as it'd be tough to actually relate ourselves to the games. Putting them together, however (kind of like how things are right now), actually gives us more fruitful results, I believe, as we've got features incorporated from both worlds, and not just one.

 

[Bellsprout]

I like either one it just depends on if it's done well or not. Even though I love Hoenn I thought the goal of team aqua/magma was pretty dumb and hard to believe, but at the same time the team characters were enjoyable. On the other hand I found team Plasma's members to be very unenjoyable and either not very realistic or just weird. Something about N was just so irritating. The sages made it feel cult like and then when the shadow triad 'appeared' I was at that point just like "okay seriously wtf is even happening anymore?" But with that said I really enjoyed Ghetsis and Colress. I think the actual idea the team had was a realistic one we'd see in real life, but most of the characters were a bit far-fetched.

Team galactic was another one that was a bit extreme, but I thought that team had great character development. I'd say this team would be a top favorite with team rocket and team flare.

I have to say though team rocket is my favorite so perhaps I prefer a realistic story a bit more. They were just so parallel to crime organizations in our world. It made the plot believable. The tie in with your rival in gsc/hgss and Giovanni was also a nice touch.

 

[Pave Low]

Generally, I prefer realistic, but with Pokemon games I prefer fantastic, as long as it's not too overdone. Pokemon themselves aren't real, obviously, so I think it being fantasy makes sense for me. As long as there is still some realism in there, though, because if the game is all fantastical it's just something I'd find ridiculous and probably be discouraged from playing. I really enjoyed the Gen 3 and 4 ideas because it made the objectives of the evil teams' more epic, along with the power of the Legendary Pokemon. I like it when Legendaries are seen as "power giants" like in the DPPt games, I think they got the emphasis on the Legendaries just right in those games, because I reckon if they had done more with them then it would've been too fantastical. Although, the realism in Gen 1, 2 and 5 was done really well, too, because the way they stringed Pokemon into real life situations was beautiful. Gen 6 was too much, waaay too much for me. They need to take a step back when it comes to Gen 7 because if they go any further than Gen 6 it'll become something crazy. Gen 4 was the furthest they could go with me still really enjoying the story.

 

[sirboulevard]

I, too, prefer a more realistic story. Not that I don't mind fantastical elements to it. (For instance, I loathe most of the Sinnoh Story, but the climax in Platinum was well handled and a great way to use fantastical elements to expand world building as well as character development (see Barry/Jun's development)).

That being said, its hard to do a character focused piece when the protagonist has to be a blank slate. Especially since the later gens make the hero/heroine more generic w/ little to no backstory. I think the best way to solve that would be to actually have the Champion actually save the day with you providing back up (supporting protagonists usually are very popular and work fairly easily).

I will say, I am a bit sick with the Legendary overdose in regards to the villianous team plots. It would be nice if the legends don't show up. Imagine what it would be like if they even tried to do the summoning thing and it didn't work! Heck, that would be hillarious and give us a chance to get the team boss to go on a rampage!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Generally I'd say I prefer Fantasy, I love a good epic tale. However I think it's important to have some kind of balance.

Team Rocket are my 4th favourite evil team out of the 6......mainly because even though I started with gen 1 I don't find anything particularly notable or interesting about their story. On the other hand I felt like Team Galactic and Team Flare took things a bit too far and went off the deep end into cuckoo land.

In my opinion the 3rd gen is the best example of a fantastic storyline and the 5th gen is the best example of a more realistic tale.

 

[Pendraflare]

It's difficult for me to say - I like Generation V's storylines the best, but 4 and 6 were not far behind. Team Plasma had the goals most separate from the rest, but the other teams all had their own goals that made them good in their own way. There's a general mix of both in between most of the storylines I think.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I like my fantasy. I do like them to have elements of realism too though. Also about Gen III's plot being unrealistic...well considering the mascots' powers are fantastical it's possible that Groudon and Kyogre break the water cycle. Actually considering the names of their remakes I think that Groudon has the ability to destroy water while Kyogre has the ability to create it (and Rayquaza the ability to shift it away).

 

[Malters Machuchu]

Pokémon has always had a lot of fantasy, hasn't it? Not as much as the science fiction elements, but even now the fantasy elements are rooted in pseudo science, what with world destruction being caused by "natural energy" in the Earth, not true magic. AZ being over 3,000 years old is also put down to an ambiguous energy not unheard of science fiction concepts. I don't see how Team Flare are as fantastical or unrealistic as real world religious extremists who genuinely desire to recreate the whole world by killing all who don't share their beliefs. Team Magma and Aqua remind me of the many people I often see say that if they had the power, they would wipe out the human species, who they describe as selfish viruses who will always pollute the Earth. In real life just get a bunch of extremists together, give them some money and power, and you've gotten groups not unlike the fantastical ones in the main Pokémon games.

Honestly, I like the bigger plots. I love it when the legendaries have this big, grand mythology. That, for me, makes the games more realistic because the real world is actually very fantastical-like, what with conflicts over whose god is the true god, a man who once tried to take over the world, contradicting religions with vastly different views on the universe, their convoluted histories, the scientific idea that all life is technically made out of stars, and a thousand other things that we forget make the real world a very colourful place.

 

[TheUnit684]

In my opinion, fantasy is always waaay more fun than reality. I love escapism. :P