Revolution

[T The Manager]

Me and my friend was hanging out yesterday and he struck up a discussion about corrupt politics, media, government, etc and asked me what America can do to stop it and I said revolution. We all know things have been bad for a long time but everything seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes by. With all the problems America has do you guys feel we need a revolution or do you think we're headed in the right direction? What do you guys believe would happen if we were to revolutionize and what do you believe would happen if we continue to allow a greedy government to do what they're doing now? I'm interested in peoples opinions on this.

 

[gimmepie]

The vast majority of the American populace doesn't have either the resources or the motivation to even attempt to revolt against the government which would be a rather extreme reaction anyway.

If people really want to make a change - and one is definitely needed from what I understand - the only thing that can be done is for those who are concerned to educate themselves and to either join politics themselves or vote for people who are going to make the right decisions.

 

[twocows]

Me and my friend was hanging out yesterday and he struck up a discussion about corrupt politics, media, government, etc and asked me what America can do to stop it and I said revolution. We all know things have been bad for a long time but everything seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes by. With all the problems America has do you guys feel we need a revolution or do you think we're headed in the right direction? What do you guys believe would happen if we were to revolutionize and what do you believe would happen if we continue to allow a greedy government to do what they're doing now? I'm interested in peoples opinions on this.

Speaking specifically about the United States... I don't think we're headed in the right direction but I don't think a revolution (at least not in the traditional sense of a violent upheaval of the established order) would solve anything. It'd just get a bunch of people killed, imprisoned, or "disappeared." The best chance we have for things getting better is if ordinary people start to speak out against the extremism that has started to pervade American politics.

 

[T The Manager]

It may be a rather extreme reaction but I feel it's something that must be done. The government's going to continue what they're doing and get even more tyrannical as the time frame goes on, it's just a matter of time before they do something that's going to devastate us and the people that were manipulated by the media, politics, etc will feel so stupid for not seeing it coming.
Voting doesn't work, it's gotten to the point where a vast majority of voters vote for a particular party rather than staying in the middle and voting for what's right. I mean go on forums and look at the presidential election debates and you'll see that they vote Republican/Democrat regardless of the candidate. I feel everyone should be in the middle because both sides are nut cases, you have to find your balance in politics which is what I believe you're saying. With that being said, what other solution could America come up with? We're running out of options.

What the government is doing is illegal, our founding fathers even predicted this would happen if we allowed a group/government to be in power too long. The Amendments also states that it's our right to revolt against our government at anytime if we feel needed meaning if it's written in code the government doesn't have the power to imprison us but they will because well, they abuse power. "The purpose of government is to secure the God-given, inalienable rights of men." Our founding fathers also states that when government becomes abusive, and "destructive of these ends," it is mankind's right and duty to alter, abolish, or overthrow it. Also, speaking out against them wouldn't work because it's never worked. The only way it would work if if the whole population besides the government protested and took a stand. So is that what you feel America should do twocows?

Also, if a revolution were to happen do you honestly believe our whole military would follow orders? They'd split giving the citizens more protection, we'd have access to military grade equipment. It definitely wouldn't be a pretty sight that's for sure.

 

[Nah]

Eh, we're probably screwed either way. There's no guarantee that the new government would be any better than what we got now or will always be better.

2 questions though:

What the government is doing is illegal, our founding fathers even predicted this would happen if we allowed a group/government to be in power too long.

What exactly is it that our government is doing that's illegal?

The Amendments also states that it's our right to revolt against our government at anytime if we feel needed

Which amendment(s) are you talking about? I'm honestly not well versed in politics or government or anything at all really but I don't remember there being an amendment that says that.

 

[T The Manager]

Eh, we're probably screwed either way. There's no guarantee that the new government would be any better than what we got now or will always be better.

True, but the current government obviously isn't the government the people want. The people just don't have the balls to stand up to the government and a small majority that do, they aren't powerful enough to make a difference so why try?

2 questions though:

What exactly is it that our government is doing that's illegal?

Everything. As I stated above, which was also stated by our founding fathers.. The purpose of a government is to protect our rights. They're doing the opposite, they're slowly taking our rights away taking away from our freedoms. They are trying their hardest to disarm citizens, which if they did that would allow them to control us on every level possible, by eliminating more of our Amendment rights and we'd have no way to fight back. Not saying it's going to happen, but with their abusive power it's a possibility. What their doing isn't 'protecting' us, it's 'abusing' us, which is what our founding fathers feared would happen, and they said (which I also stated above) is if the government get's abusive (which they have) we have the right to take action.

Which amendment(s) are you talking about? I'm honestly not well versed in politics or government or anything at all really but I don't remember there being an amendment that says that.

Sorry for the confusion, but I believe they stated we can do so when the Bill of Rights was written. Either way, it's written SOMEWHERE by the founding fathers that we can take action if we feel threatened or abused by our government.

 

[Kanzler]

The Bill of Rights is meant to prevent the infringement of individual rights, but I do not believe it grants the "right to rebel". Sedition and treason are both crimes in the United States, with treason being defined in section three of article three of the Constitution:

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open court.

 

[Somewhere_]

I dont think enough people realize the freedoms being taken away from us. We can longer say we are the best example of freedom. We are #20 on the Freedom Index and I am pretty sure (not 100%) that numbers 21-27 have higher personal freedoms. I need to double check the list, but anyways, we are slowly falling down.

People need to realize that both political parties take away freedoms and restrict them. As for revolution, I doubt it will be possible. Maybe in like 50 years when America is socialist there will be one.

 

[T The Manager]

I dont think enough people realize the freedoms being taken away from us. We can longer say we are the best example of freedom. We are #20 on the Freedom Index and I am pretty sure (not 100%) that numbers 21-27 have higher personal freedoms. I need to double check the list, but anyways, we are slowly falling down.

People need to realize that both political parties take away freedoms and restrict them. As for revolution, I doubt it will be possible. Maybe in like 50 years when America is socialist there will be one.

That's an easy one to answer. People don't realize the freedoms being taken away because they're too busy blindly following politicians and the media like sheep rather than using common sense to realize the real issues and what's actually going on in the world. If everyone knew what was actually going on we wouldn't have these problems we have today. Those same people call the aware people 'conspiracy theorist' or 'tin foil hatted' if they bring it up, which in reality these so called 'conspiracy theorists' are actually right because it's basic logic. It's mind blowing that people actually don't see these problems.
I'm also glad you brought this up too because recently this year they've banned or been trying to ban many things, yet they call America the 'Land of the Free'. They're slowly stripping our rights, eventually we won't be able to do anything or as you said, we'll be a socialist country. Our governments on intention is to control the masses, not to protect us. I don't know what America's waiting for.

 

[Kanzler]

What do you guys mean when you talk about becoming a socialist country like it's a bad thing? I mean, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Iceland, and the Netherlands are all more "socialist" than the United States, and are all rated higher on the Freedom Index.

 

[T The Manager]

What do you guys mean when you talk about becoming a socialist country like it's a bad thing? I mean, Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Iceland, and the Netherlands are all more "socialist" than the United States, and are all rated higher on the Freedom Index.

I'd rather not have everything controlled by the government... Js. Also, I like my rights as a US citizen to own a firearm or to have the right to own my own business owned by me and my founders not by the government. Socialism would take more rights away in America than you think.

 

[Kanzler]

I'd rather not have everything controlled by the government... Js. Also, I like my rights as a US citizen to own a firearm or to have the right to own my own business owned by me and my founders not by the government. Socialism would take more rights away in America than you think.

In many of those countries you have the right to own firearms and to own your own business. The difference is that the license or register your firearms, and you usually have to prove that you're competent enough to operate one. And if you look at business freedom, a lot of those countries are about as free as the United States for owning and operating a business.

Just because a country has socialistic policies doesn't mean that it makes the people less free.

 

[gimmepie]

Ignoring stuff like "less guns equals less freedom" because I'm pretty sure everyone here knows my views on that at this point, I'm just going to add that there seems to be a misunderstanding of socialism here.

Socialism does not necessarily mean that the government owns and controls everything. It can be the way it works, or only a small aspect of a socialist system.

"Social ownership" may refer to cooperative ownership, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these.

In a lot of ways, socialist democracy is a much better system of government than a capitalist one. So becoming a bit more socialist is not something that you should all look at as though it is inherently bad. Otherwise it's just the Red Scare all over again, and that was pretty ridiculous too at its core.

 

[Dusty]

I agree with Gimmiepie here, in terms of the difference between a socialist democracy and our own government. I believe that the political race going on right now for president proves that point, that politics is now decided not by who is right or more competent, but who has more money. Donald Trump is not a politician but a businessman, and not a very honest one at that. And yet because Trump has so much money to throw around, other candidates that no one has ever heard of get ignored because those with the money can just drown them out.

I'm not saying that a socialist society would fix this issue, but it may fix a few of those issues.

Other than that, here is my take on any revolution. It would fail.

We are far past the point in which any sort of revolution would be effective. Back in the times of the founding fathers, I believe the logic behind the second amendment to bear arms was to defend the people's rights to not only protect themselves from others but also the government. Now there is nothing we can actually do against our government, not realistically. With the levels of technology we have nowadays, any revolution would be shut down quickly. They work in less developed countries, but in America there is the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the massive amount of technology at their disposal. We can own guns, sure. Wont help against an army of security cameras, UAVs, man power, and military strength.

If there is to be a revolution, it needs to be political, not military. But nobody can make a difference in government due to our capitalist society.

 

[Crizzle]

Things would have to get REALLY bad for there to be a revolution. But with the increasing gap between the rich and poor as well as the shrinking middle class, maybe that kind of environment can happen in the future.

But it probably won't happen.

 

[jessluvstolaugh]

In an age of smartphones, people are becoming more dependent on others. If they have a question, instead of trying to figure out themselves, they have someone else do it for them. People even have other people make their decisions for them. Now that is sad. With this kind of attitude, people are becoming less independent and less intelligent and are unable to think for themselves. That is why it is unlikely for there to be a revolution.

 

[Somewhere_]

That's an easy one to answer. People don't realize the freedoms being taken away because they're too busy blindly following politicians and the media like sheep rather than using common sense to realize the real issues and what's actually going on in the world. If everyone knew what was actually going on we wouldn't have these problems we have today. Those same people call the aware people 'conspiracy theorist' or 'tin foil hatted' if they bring it up, which in reality these so called 'conspiracy theorists' are actually right because it's basic logic. It's mind blowing that people actually don't see these problems.
I'm also glad you brought this up too because recently this year they've banned or been trying to ban many things, yet they call America the 'Land of the Free'. They're slowly stripping our rights, eventually we won't be able to do anything or as you said, we'll be a socialist country. Our governments on intention is to control the masses, not to protect us. I don't know what America's waiting for.

You sound like an Anarcho-Capatilist you neck-beard conspiracy theorist! (just kidding) But what are your political preferences? Im assuming Libertarian...

I have been called a conspiracy theorist by some people, or they think that I would be one. But they are just sheep. I can't tell you how many times I have heard stuff so blind its hilarious like freedom jokes and stuff. And actually, I think the problem is the ones that are actually supporting the constriction of freedoms, but dont realize they are! Or the ones who want to fix the government with more government...

 

[T The Manager]

You sound like an Anarcho-Capatilist you neck-beard conspiracy theorist! (just kidding) But what are your political preferences? Im assuming Libertarian...

I have been called a conspiracy theorist by some people, or they think that I would be one. But they are just sheep. I can't tell you how many times I have heard stuff so blind its hilarious like freedom jokes and stuff. And actually, I think the problem is the ones that are actually supporting the constriction of freedoms, but dont realize they are! Or the ones who want to fix the government with more government...

Yes I'm an Libertarian. People think or try to convert me to anarchism but as bad is it sounds a country needs a government, and to an extent country's need rules and regulations, but only important ones. With that being said I feel a Libertarian government would be the ideal government because it gives the citizens of that country free will rather than trying to limit and or control everything they do. In America, there's so many rules and regulations that we have to abide by that I feel it's not even America anymore, hell illegal immigrants get treated better than legal citizens. Police abusing power, actually the judicial system abusing it in general, illegalizing nature like fishing without a license (really?), not being able to collect rain water in some states (THEY CAN'T BE SERIOUS), marijuana (IT GROWS NATURALLY IN THE MOUNTAINS!), etc basically if they can't profit it, it's illegal.

 

[gimmepie]

Yes I'm an Libertarian. People think or try to convert me to anarchism but as bad is it sounds a country needs a government, and to an extent country's need rules and regulations, but only important ones. With that being said I feel a Libertarian government would be the ideal government because it gives the citizens of that country free will rather than trying to limit and or control everything they do. In America, there's so many rules and regulations that we have to abide by that I feel it's not even America anymore, hell illegal immigrants get treated better than legal citizens. Police abusing power, actually the judicial system abusing it in general, illegalizing nature like fishing without a license (really?), not being able to collect rain water in some states (THEY CAN'T BE SERIOUS), marijuana (IT GROWS NATURALLY IN THE MOUNTAINS!), etc basically if they can't profit it, it's illegal.

Things like fishing licences are primarily about preventing ecological collapse through over-fishing, but I don't think it's wrong for a fee to be attached to them. If you're that determined to fish, then pay up so the government can do something with the money.

As for weed, if it was legalised all over the place the government could make a lot of money through taxing it. So keeping weed illegal has nothing to do with them not being able to profit off of it. Hell, it would also slightly reduce the number of people in prison on possession charges probably and that would inevitably save money too.

I can't see any logic at all on the rain water thing though.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

True, but the current government obviously isn't the government the people want. The people just don't have the balls to stand up to the government and a small majority that do, they aren't powerful enough to make a difference so why try?

2 questions though:



Everything. As I stated above, which was also stated by our founding fathers.. The purpose of a government is to protect our rights. They're doing the opposite, they're slowly taking our rights away taking away from our freedoms. They are trying their hardest to disarm citizens, which if they did that would allow them to control us on every level possible, by eliminating more of our Amendment rights and we'd have no way to fight back. Not saying it's going to happen, but with their abusive power it's a possibility. What their doing isn't 'protecting' us, it's 'abusing' us, which is what our founding fathers feared would happen, and they said (which I also stated above) is if the government get's abusive (which they have) we have the right to take action.




Sorry for the confusion, but I believe they stated we can do so when the Bill of Rights was written. Either way, it's written SOMEWHERE by the founding fathers that we can take action if we feel threatened or abused by our government.

The second amendment has been interpreted to be the right to Rebel by some scholars and non-scholars. I think there is some merit to it.

I have also thought about this topic before, looking at the increasing inequalities and dwindling freedoms (given up by the majority of people without a fight just for a promise of safety). However, I would not advocate for a revolution even if things got very bad. History shows that most revolutions that lean towards violence tend to fail, look at the Arab Spring in Egypt and other countries, or the French revolution, or even the Russian Revolution (the communist one, or even the most recent one). In the end people as corrupt as the ones that were overthrown take power and the only result was dead people. The American revolution was the only exception and that almost failed as there were mini rebellions in our early history that had to be put down during the time of our founding fathers. Of course the founding fathers also came up with political solutions to deal with the rebellions, not just violence. I think that America needs political solutions but sadly our politicians don't seem to be willing to do so (the majority seem bought off, and those that aren't can't do anything by themselves).

It isn't just the government though, large corporations have also screwed us over, both of them have formed an alliance to do us in it seems...

I think that what we should do is break up the large corporations and banks (which managed to get bigger with the help of their bought politicians), shut down the NSA, justice reform that doesn't penalize small crimes, get rid of the rest of the post 9/11 policies which have infringed on our rights, and get government to go back into the sidelines for awhile (only getting involved when it comes to defending the rights of every American be it from certain groups like corporations or other countries).