Scientists Plan to Clone Extinct Siberian Cave Lion

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    Two infant prehistoric big cats - dating from Pleistocene times - were found in a 'sensational' discovery last year, as disclosed by The Siberian Times. The cubs were dug from their icy grave 'complete with all their body parts: fur, ears, soft tissue and even whiskers', said Dr Albert Protopopov, head of the mammoth fauna studies department of the Yakutian Academy of Sciences.

    Now cloning expert Hwang Woo-suk, a South Korean scientist who is already pioneering research work to bring the extinct woolly mammoth back to life, is in Yakutsk to obtain samples of one of the cave lion cubs. These laboratory pictures show skin and muscle tissue being extracted from the ancient creature's Dina's remains.

    Dr Protopopov said: 'Together with the Mammoth Museum, we took samples for cell research.' The museum's experts will study these for the presence of living cells suitable for cloning.

    Hwang came to Yakutsk - capital of the Sakha Republic - specifically for this purpose. But there was dispute between the Siberian and Korean scientists over the size of the sample.

    The Korean professor wanted a large section, such as part of the skull or a leg but this was opposed by the local experts who are anyway withholding one of the cubs from any research - the better preserved of the pair, called Uyan - confident that more advanced techniques in future years will ensure more is gleaned from it than if research is done now.

    Dr Protopopov said: 'We intend to keep it for the future. The methods of research are constantly being improved, about once a decade there is a mini-revolution in this area. So we will do everything possible to keep this carcass frozen for as long as possible.'

    He revealed: 'The dispute arose from the fact that the researchers, as always, want to be completely sure and take more tissue, and I can understand them. But the lion is not fully preserved and there are not so many tissues. We have planned other studies, so it is important to preserve the original morphology of the remains. Such disputes are normal in all studies, and in the end we came to a compromise.'

    Director of the Mammoth Museum Semyon Grigoriev defended the decision to limit the sample available to the cloning guru.

    'The Koreans are sceptical and unhappy with the samples,' he said. 'They expected to take more, as they did with the mammoth previously. But it will not work with with these little kittens.

    'You have to understand, the lion cub is very small, so it was not possible to take as much as we would like. In addition, the material is highly degraded, it is partially mummified, but the part that was in the ice, preserved very well. We managed to take some samples of skin along with the muscle tissue, and we hope that we will find what we want in these samples.'

    An autopsy of the animal is due to be held later this year.

    The cave lions were found some 650 miles northeast of Yakutsk, in Yakutia, also known as the Sakha Republic, a Siberian region almost as large as India. A sudden summer rise - then fall - in the level of the Uyandina River led to cracks appearing and local worker Yakov Androsov spotted an ice lens with the lion cubs inside.

    Dr Protopopov said last year when he showed the cubs to the media: 'Comparing with modern lion cubs, we think that these two were very small, maybe a week or two old. The eyes were not quite open, they have baby teeth and not all had appeared.'

    He thinks they may have perished after the lioness hid her cubs in a cave to protect them from the hungry lions. 'Then the landslide covered it and they remained surrounded in permafrost. Also the air intake was blocked, and this helped their preservation.' In summer 2016, researchers are due go back to the site and search for remains of possibly one more cub, or even the lioness.

    Cave lions - Panthera spelaea (Goldfuss) - lived during Middle and Late Pleistocene times on the Eurasian continent, from the British Isles to Chukotka in the extreme east of Russia, and they also roamed Alaska and northwestern Canada.

    Research on the two cubs could help to explain why the species died out around 10,000 years ago, since the animal had few predators, was smaller than herbivores, and was not prone to getting bogged down in swamps, as did woolly mammoths and rhinos. One theory is a decline in deer and cave bears, their prey, caused their demise.
    Source: https://siberiantimes.com/science/c...efforts-to-clone-extinct-siberian-cave-lions/

    What are your overall thoughts on this plan? Are you all for it, or are they better off cloning another extinct animal? Debates on the subject of cloning are also welcome.
     
    Yes!!!!!! It will be an incredible step for science a cloning of a dead animal and will be great for biology.
     
    Its definitely an accomplishment that humanity has gotten to the point to where we can do stuff like this. The idea that we can clone an animal extinct for thousands of years is interesting, but I don't see it as directly useful. Cloning technology can be a useful tool, and saving animals from extinction is a definite plus, but I don't like the idea of humans playing god, with other animals genes and our own.

    So its interesting, but in the long term I don't think it will amount to much. Great, we have a prehistoric lion...now what?
     
    How exactly do they plan to clone these things though?

    I'm a bit puzzled as well. Requesting master biologist/something-ist Alexei Razor Leaf please.

    I thought DNA had a ~500 year half life, which left recovery after that certain point unfeasible. But granted, when I was reading that, it was talking about how Jurassic Park cannot happen, not talking about well-preserved whole bodies with flesh and presumably usable blood, or remnants thereof.

    I remember reading forever ago about how if a mammoth clone were to be made, it would be gestated through it's closest related elephant species or something like that. I can only guess there'd be a similar method like that using the big cats we have today, but I'd have literally no idea how that would work or if there is even a big cat similar enough to this frozen species.
     
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    This is pretty awesome tbh. Can they do that with dinosaurs because scientists have discovered non-fossilized tissue? sorry, i dont know that much about scientific processes lol.
     
    I'm a bit puzzled as well. Requesting master biologist/something-ist Alexei Razor Leaf please.

    I thought DNA had a ~500 year half life, which left recovery after that certain point unfeasible. But granted, when I was reading that, it was talking about how Jurassic Park cannot happen, not talking about well-preserved whole bodies with flesh and presumably usable blood, or remnants thereof.

    I remember reading forever ago about how if a mammoth clone were to be made, it would be gestated through it's closest related elephant species or something like that. I can only guess there'd be a similar method like that using the big cats we have today, but I'd have literally no idea how that would work or if there is even a big cat similar enough to this frozen species.

    There's several ways one could go about cloning mammoths, and lions in this case as well. One would be to get ovums and sperm from frozen specimens (there's supposed to be well preserved samples of both), use in vitro fertilization and then implant it into an African elephant to gestate it. That would result in a pure woolly mammoth.

    Another way would be to take the nucleus of a well preserved mammoth cell and swap it with the nucleus of a newly fertilized elephant egg and then implant it back into the elephant. Results are basically the same. This would result in a clone of the mammoth from which the cells were obtained. The first option would be necessary if the species were to reproduce, since there would be a need of genetic diversity.

    Another way would be to impregnate an African elephant with the sperm of a woolly mammoth. Previous tests point towards the hybridization being possible, but there is no conclusive evidence yet. The goal of this would be to impregnate several elephants that way and end with a population of half elephant/half woolly mammoth specimens. After a healthy population is established, females of these specimens would then be impregnated with woolly mammoth sperm and the process would repeat itself until "pure" woolly mammoths are obtained. The upside of this "reviving" method, would be a large and genetically diverse population of woolly mammoths. The downside is that it would take too much time to accomplish.

    With big cats, it might not be so easy. All members of the Panthera genus, with the exception of the snow leopard, can hybridize between themselves. Some of these hybrids are fertile, some aren't. Many of them would have trouble surviving in the wild but evidence sometimes points to some of these hybrids existing naturally and doing fine, most prominently lion and leopard hybrids.

    There is currently no way to know if a hybrid of a living Panthera member and a Cave Lion would be fertile.
     
    Whilst I think the science of cloning is amazing, I don't like the idea of bringing an animal into this world that it just is not adapted for. We don't live in a world with an Ice Age anymore and our climate is steadily increasing in temperature as it is. We can barely keep the likes of Polar Bears alive due to this, let's not exacerbate the problem by breeding more creatures that can't survive in the current state of the world.
     
    Whilst I think the science of cloning is amazing, I don't like the idea of bringing an animal into this world that it just is not adapted for. We don't live in a world with an Ice Age anymore and our climate is steadily increasing in temperature as it is. We can barely keep the likes of Polar Bears alive due to this, let's not exacerbate the problem by breeding more creatures that can't survive in the current state of the world.

    We're actually going to have a mini Ice Age by 2030. Still though, there's been a theory that the change in climate was not the main reason these cave lions went extinct but instead human influence. So if anything, we should be against the cloning revival of cave lions because natural selection had chosen us to wipe them all out as the new dominant predator.
     
    We're actually going to have a mini Ice Age by 2030. Still though, there's been a theory that the change in climate was not the main reason these cave lions went extinct but instead human influence. So if anything, we should be against the cloning revival of cave lions because natural selection had chosen us to wipe them all out as the new dominant predator.

    Ignoring the fact that the Daily Mail is somewhat sketchy as a source, there's a lot of debate as to what exactly is going to happen to our climate in the future. All we know is that it is changing, and currently that means things are getting warmer.

    As for the natural selection debate, well I don't know.
     
    We're actually going to have a mini Ice Age by 2030. Still though, there's been a theory that the change in climate was not the main reason these cave lions went extinct but instead human influence. So if anything, we should be against the cloning revival of cave lions because natural selection had chosen us to wipe them all out as the new dominant predator.

    Natural selection doesn't choose anything. Evolution doesn't choose anything. It's a process and it occurs without guidance.

    In any case, that can't even be considered natural selection. Competing for food and then being hunt to extinction isn't natural selection.

    Now, thousands of species are going extinct because of human influence, should we do nothing to save them?
     
    Natural selection doesn't choose anything. Evolution doesn't choose anything. It's a process and it occurs without guidance.

    In any case, that can't even be considered natural selection. Competing for food and then being hunt to extinction isn't natural selection.

    Now, thousands of species are going extinct because of human influence, should we do nothing to save them?

    If they were chosen by mother nature to go extinct, then yes we should do nothing to save them, or else it'll ruin the natural order of evolution. Mother nature is cruel, and if she says something's gotta go, then it's gonna go, no matter how much we try to save it. It's a non-religious reason why cloning an extinct species is bad to some people.
     
    If they were chosen by mother nature to go extinct, then yes we should do nothing to save them, or else it'll ruin the natural order of evolution. Mother nature is cruel, and if she says something's gotta go, then it's gonna go, no matter how much we try to save it. It's a non-religious reason why cloning an extinct species is bad to some people.
    But humans (modern humans) exist outside of natural selection in a way. If species die because of our actions it's a kind of unnatural selection (not to get into the whole natural vs. unnatural thing). Also, if we humans are part of nature's process then wouldn't human action to bring back a species also be part of nature's process?
     
    If they were chosen by mother nature to go extinct, then yes we should do nothing to save them, or else it'll ruin the natural order of evolution. Mother nature is cruel, and if she says something's gotta go, then it's gonna go, no matter how much we try to save it. It's a non-religious reason why cloning an extinct species is bad to some people.

    Mother Nature doesn't choose anything, either. It isn't some cognizant being.

    Also, there's no order in evolution. It is chaotic, that's why it works. Most of the times it occurs due to happy accidents named mutations.

    Saving a species that is going extinct because of our influence isn't ruining the natural order of things. They are going extinct in the first place because we have already ruined the balance of the ecosystems. Each species plays an important role in the ecosystem. Their dissappearance would cause a lot of problems.
     
    Which is why I'd rather use cloning technology to save species we're ****ing over than to revive animals that probably can't survive the modern climate anyway.

    Actually, Mammoths and Cave Lions should have no problem surviving in modern day's Russian tundra.

    Not only that, but bringing back woolly mammoths to roam the Siberian Tundra could actually help slow down climate change. TL;DR of that: Mammoths would help the tundra turn back into the grasslands they were before and that would help insulate the permafrost, making it a lot harder for it to melt, keeping the area cooler. You can read more and the full explanation here.
     
    Actually, Mammoths and Cave Lions should have no problem surviving in modern day's Russian tundra.

    Not only that, but bringing back woolly mammoths to roam the Siberian Tundra could actually help slow down climate change. TL;DR of that: Mammoths would help the tundra turn back into the grasslands they were before and that would help insulate the permafrost, making it a lot harder for it to melt, keeping the area cooler. You can read more and the full explanation here.

    I'll do that when it's not almost 1:00am and get back to you
     
    Human nature. We tend to kill animals for their wool too make money. My problem is humans would probably try to kill these animals due to their own greed. Some animals are going extinct either from mother nature, humans, or other animals. So I agree with gimmepie. I'd rather them save close to extinct animals rather than reincarnate an extinct animal. How do they plan this animal to act in the wild? Would they keep it concealed in a zoo? What are their plans as in caring for the animal and ensuring it doesn't go extinct again?
     
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