Should intrinsic mechanics go away?

[Mirari]

There are some mechanics that stay practicality the same over the generations, but some of them could change in favor of simplicity or innovation. I was thinking about some of them:

HMs should not exist anymore
Rather, it could be something like this: you need a specific move (or a specific type of Pokemon) to clear obstacles, like boulders or trees. For example, if you want to move a boulder, you need to have on your team a heavy Pokemon, while to cut a tree you needed any Pokemon that knows Slash. More moves would be "field moves" and there would be more usefulness to height/weight of your monsters during the game!

Or, to make it a bit more HM-likely, Gym Leaders should be able to "teach" you - the trainer - how to command your Pokemons to do these feats. After beating the Water-type gym, the leader teaches you how to surf using your Water-type Pokemons. There would be no more use for a Surf move if EVERY water-type knows how to Surf.

Pokedex during battles
What the Dex shows in the current games is basically useless since footprint, height, weight and cry has no sue at all during battles.

Why not make it like the anime, where you can use it to learn information about the opponent? It'd be very useful if you could at least check the "basic" moves of the enemy, i.e you check Pikachu and the dex lists Thundershock and Tail Whip as its default moves, independently of its level.

Every evolution line has the same base stats at level 100
It would be very cool if a Charmander could be as useful as a Charizard in battle as long as they are at level 100. A Charizard could have higher stats sooner, but a sharp experience curve, while a Charmander would be the oppositte. This way basic forms, as in the anime, could be as strong as its evolutions, with no drawbacks to any side!

Get rid of IVs and make wild Pokemons come with random EVs
These random EV would be their effort in surviving in the wild. You can use Berries to erase them if you're a hardcore gamer, but if you're a casual you wouldn't mind much. The EV amount could vary according to the level of the Pokemon, I guess. IVs, as they are right now, don't make a vital role in the hardcore metagame other than the time factor (or hack), because everyone still aims for the perfect IVs anyway.

Another suggestion: Natures add a bonus from 1% to 10% instead of a fixed amount. This way it's still good to look for a good Nature, but if you're a hardcore you need to search for a +10% Nature (1/10 chance, instead of 1/32 as IVs are now).

What are your suggestions? Do you think the new generation should change its core mechanics? Would it make players go away?

 

[Hiatus]

It's definitely a good idea to get rid of HMs all together. I mean, they're moves just like everything else, and if they want games to be more realistic, they need to make these stuff forgettable and equal to other attacks. As for Pokédex, I'm not too sure about that. :( While battling, we should know what we're doing, and not rely on outside sources. Some of us do use our computers for these kind of things, which is almost the same, but not all.

 

[Flushed]

I agree, HMs could be done better. I think things like surfing and flying are still important, but it certainly can be improved upon. Imo, the suggestions you made for the EV/IV, EXP and nature mechanics seem to complicate things a bit. I know people don't care for stuff like IVs, but honestly, I think it's a pretty fluid system that doesn't necessarily need change.

 

[Yato]

I think getting rid of IVs and updating EVs/natures would definitely make things really complicated and more difficult @_@ For making wild Pokemon tougher, why not just reintroduce Challenge Mode and update it so wild Pokemon will appear at higher levels or something like that?

Re: HMs, parroting what others have said in that they could be done better. Personally, I'm of the mindset that they should be like Flash and Rock Smash and become TMs. After all, TMs are no longer one-use only, so they can still be taught plenty of times over. Plus, quite a few places in the games have required HM moves (especially Victory Road). If you don't want to teach your main party member those HM moves, you have to get an HM Slave, which will likely be too weak to fight; thus, you lose a member of your party. (Given, this could be a good thing for those who like a challenge, but it's still handy to have all your party members readily available.) If they were replaceable, then you could teach your Pokemon the move over a TM move, get through the obstacle, then reteach them the TM move.

As for the Pokedex idea, I think it'd be useful for people who are new to Pokemon; however, as was pointed out, plenty can simply access computers/devices with Internet access outside of the games to look up the information, so I'm not sure if it'd serve much use.

 

[Wanderer Miror B.]

I think getting rid of HMs would be great, and I'm not the kind of player who ever cared about IV's and EV's so that'd be fine with me too.

I like stats and the Pokedex the way they are now, though.

 

[KostK2Boss]

on eliminating HMs: I think they should just make it so that HMs can be replaced by other moves. I wouldn't really mind having to have my Pokemon know Cut for a while, if it didn't mean I would have to fly to the Move Deleter later.

on Pokedex during battles: I don't see the point on this one. Having the game give you a little more information about a Pokemon other than what it likes to eat would be neat, but in the end you're gonna use the Internet to look these things up anyway. Internet > Pokedex (juuust realised pretty much everyone else has pointed that out already).

on getting rid of IVs: I don't see IVs as that much of an issue anymore. GF finally realised how ridiculous it was to legitimately get perfect Pokemon in previous Gens and thankfully fixed it for X & Y (a change that will very likely stay for future installments). Right now, the only practical benefit Pokecheck has over legit breeding is Tutor moves and these will probably return in Pokemon Z, or even ORAS.

 

[Mirari]

I know we can use the internet, but I mean, it's a information the game itself could show to you, you weren't suppose to need the internet to check it. Like Egg Groups, for example. I'm not sure if it changed on last generations, but you never knew if two pokémon were compatible with each other until you put them on daycare. Internet has much more information than any game, but it doesn't mean the game needs to hide or ignore it, does it?

Also, if the Pokédex could be just a bit more useful, it would make more sense to the game, like WHY would any trainer accept the challange of filling it if the only thing it does is to display two lines describing a pokémon and its footprint -_-

The IV/EV idea was just an idea xD The question is if Nintendo should change it, if competitive players would just stop playing if it did, if these mechanics should be more accessible to casuals... just to promete a discussion ^-^

And what about the evolution line with same status? No one said anything! x) (By the way, thanks for your input, guys!)

 

[Jolteon Dan]

On HMs: HMs are being de-emphasized anyway lately, especially in Black and White where it's possible to go through the entire main story without needing HMs. Personally, I like the Pokemon Zeta/Omicron approach -- have the HMs available normally, and then hide a Key Item that replaces the need for them. (Ex. You can Surf on a Lapras Doll without needing a pokemon with Surf in your party, and the Lapras Doll is reusable.) One of my friends had the idea of inventing a 5th "HM moveslot" that cannot be used in battle (so you could still have Surf/Waterfall as one of your four battling moves if desired).

On Pokedex During Battles: I think this would be a great idea; it just makes sense. Where I think this could be useful is to make base stats open knowledge, accessible through the pokedex. In online tournaments, people will spend a long time looking up speed tiers or doing damage calculations (which is annoying if you're the waiting opponent). While a visible pokedex wouldn't help against damage calcs, making base stats more accessible would give more of a reason to open the book up and also help clue a new player into what an unfamiliar pokemon is capable of doing.

On Evolution Lines With the Same Stats: Ehhh, I mean, pokemon evolve for a reason... As it stands, there's still the under-utilized benefit of unevolved pokemon learning moves earlier (which makes thematic sense -- critical window and all). There may be something more that can be done for unevolved pokemon here, but short of implementing a Little Cup I don't know what that would be.

 

[Altairis]

I find HMs really restricting, however, I think not having them really limits the storyline. BW barely required any HM use, and with that disappeared the long surfing rides, diving adventures, mountain climbing, rock-moving, etc. I REALLY just think that they should switch to items, or give Pokemon the ability to do these things regardless of move (since I'm not sure how keen they would be to give a 10 year old a saw to cut down trees). Maybe make it so every Water-type can automatically give you a ride across water, every Pokemon with sharp claws can cut down small trees, every Rock-type or fully evolved Pokemon can move/smash rocks, etc. These abilities could unlock after every gym so they could stop us from surfing across the sea if they didn't want us to quite yet.

 

[Universe]

Went ahead and typed individual responses to each of these!

HMs should not exist anymore
Rather, it could be something like this: you need a specific move (or a specific type of Pokemon) to clear obstacles, like boulders or trees. For example, if you want to move a boulder, you need to have on your team a heavy Pokemon, while to cut a tree you needed any Pokemon that knows Slash. More moves would be "field moves" and there would be more usefulness to height/weight of your monsters during the game!

Or, to make it a bit more HM-likely, Gym Leaders should be able to "teach" you - the trainer - how to command your Pokemons to do these feats. After beating the Water-type gym, the leader teaches you how to surf using your Water-type Pokemons. There would be no more use for a Surf move if EVERY water-type knows how to Surf.

Wow I like your latter idea on this one. The gym leaders teaching methods of crossing obstacles with your Pokemon without the need for a specific move would be amazing. And considering HMs are becoming less and less necessary in every game/generation as time goes on, I'm finding it only natural that they will eventually become obsolete and cease to exist entirely. Which hey I think it's about time anyway. I'm growing tired of having to grab up an HM slave or two to take up slots in my party that could otherwise belong to Pokemon I will actually use in battle.

Unless they plan on overhauling the HM moves to make them stronger and/or more useful in battle, I can't see any good reason to keep them around.

They just take up valuable space.

Pokedex during battles

What the Dex shows in the current games is basically useless since footprint, height, weight and cry has no sue at all during battles.

Why not make it like the anime, where you can use it to learn information about the opponent? It'd be very useful if you could at least check the "basic" moves of the enemy, i.e you check Pikachu and the dex lists Thundershock and Tail Whip as its default moves, independently of its level.

Ehh, I'm iffy on this idea. It really seems like it would just be taking up unnecessary data and space that could otherwise be used for more interesting things. No one really uses the in-game Pokedex except to check for location (maybe?). I know that's the only time I ever pull open my Pokedex. Basic moves for Pokemon are common knowledge to most anyway, so it really doesn't seem necessary to me to include such a feature. Also, we're asked to catch Pokemon in the beginning of the games in order to fill up the Pokedex. Why after 6 generations of this system would they suddenly make a Pokedex file instantly obtained by use in battle? That leaves out about half the challenge of capturing/collecting Pokemon in order to complete the dex.

With the Shiny Charm being the reward lately for completing the National Dex, I would think they need to maintain the difficulty of Pokedex completion.

Every evolution line has the same base stats at level 100

It would be very cool if a Charmander could be as useful as a Charizard in battle as long as they are at level 100. A Charizard could have higher stats sooner, but a sharp experience curve, while a Charmander would be the oppositte. This way basic forms, as in the anime, could be as strong as its evolutions, with no drawbacks to any side!

This would break the metagame on so many levels... it would really change things for the worst I think. As much as I adore my unevolved starters, I can't see this being received very well. In-game, it's very easy and very possible for an unevolved Pokemon to beat it's evolution anyway since levels are about the only thing determining strength there. (Unless for some reason you actually care about the IVs and EVs of your in-game team...?) Competitive battling wouldn't appreciate this sort of change though I don't think... it'd take the fun out of random battles giving you NFE's and forcing you to use strategy and skill to figure out how to use them viably.

Also Little Cup would be an absolute train wreck.

Get rid of IVs and make wild Pokemons come with random EVs

These random EV would be their effort in surviving in the wild. You can use Berries to erase them if you're a hardcore gamer, but if you're a casual you wouldn't mind much. The EV amount could vary according to the level of the Pokemon, I guess. IVs, as they are right now, don't make a vital role in the hardcore metagame other than the time factor (or hack), because everyone still aims for the perfect IVs anyway.

Another suggestion: Natures add a bonus from 1% to 10% instead of a fixed amount. This way it's still good to look for a good Nature, but if you're a hardcore you need to search for a +10% Nature (1/10 chance, instead of 1/32 as IVs are now).

.. Yikes I don't like this one. Now I'm all for changing things up but this is way too extreme in my opinion. Inconsistency would make things way too hard and put too steep of a learning curve on people trying to figure out how to 'make' competitively viable Pokemon - or even for people looking for decent Pokemon to use in-game. I prefer the idea of Pokemon having IVs, as it gives purpose to breeding Pokemon. You typically breed Pokemon seriously to obtain perfection. In other words, 5 IVs, 6 IVs, etc. EVs are obtained from battling, so it would make zero sense to breed a Pokemon and have them pop out with random EVs instead of IVs passed down from it's parents. Like how did that even occur in the first place? You can't just breed out an all-0 across the board Pokemon because that wouldn't make much sense.

IVs are a Pokemon's form of genes. Getting rid of them would really break the breeding system.

Also a consistent Nature system helps keep hunting down good Pokemon to a minimum too.. which constructing a good team is hard enough to begin with.
I don't think anyone likes the idea of making it any harder.

I understand the want to make Pokemon games make more sense (in regards to how you believe wild Pokemon should have EVs for their wilderness efforts), but it just would make things too difficult and raise the learning level by a decent amount. Don't forget that these games are originally aimed towards children. Over-complicating things would frustrate everyone and more specifically steer away the aimed audience. Which is not something that should be done with games like these.

 

[Megan]

One way to get around the whole HM mess would be to break up the four slots for attacks. Battling could still be restricted to four moves, but now you can switch which moves to use and if you have to use HMs they can be set as passive (not taking up a move slot in battle). I've never understood, why Pokemon can only remember four moves anyway. I mean Alakazam has an IQ of 5000, but can only remember 4 moves?