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5th Gen So was this generation just filler?

Origin Green

Smell ya later!
  • 64
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    15
    Years
    Before I start I'm just saying I am not hating on Gen V at all, I'm just wondering what you guys and gals think.

    Gen V, the second generation of Pokemon to hit the DS handhelds, it featured new Pokemon, seasons and a new story...

    Apart from that, I really didn't think it added much else to the series, in terms of advancement of the series, nothing really seemed to improve? It sort of just seemed like a generation 4.5 to me.

    So my question, do you think Gen 6 was in the works at the same time? I mean I know gen V was still going even when the 3DS had been released...
     
    I kind of agree that it's a lot like Generation 4.5, and seems to be more so preparation into X/Y, but I still think it made a fair number of contributions.

    First off, contributing the most amount of Pokemon in a generation is nothing to scoff at! Gen 5's roster is truly impressive and did impact Pokemon a lot. After all, the entire point of Pokemon is the creatures themselves. One could say this doesn't improve much, but loads of Pokemon does contribute. Enough for it not to be filler in my opinion.

    Other than that and in terms of features added though, it didn't really do much of anything else. Triple and Rotation battles impacted very little. But I do have to say that making TMs reusable improved things a lot, even if it's a relatively small change.

    But I do have to say that it set a story precedent for generations to come. This generation marked when the story of Pokemon was starting to tread into deeper, more serious waters and actually creating characters who were more than just one-dimensional cardboard cut outs. The gym leaders ACTUALLY left their gyms and helped you for the first time ever. The story's ending was not completely predictable and actually rather out of left-field. Your rivals (especially Bianca) had more motivations than just being stepping stones on your way. We're questioning something people have been asking for ages as well; is it wrong to train Pokemon? Is it enslavement? And although that question is never answered seriously, the fact that it is posed is significant for the series. Plus, our main characters are in their teens, older than just ten year old children.

    For all these reasons, I don't think it was filler. It may not have added much in terms of fancy features or to the system, but it added a good chunk of new things to the series which improved it in my opinion. (Especially the story)

    And yes, I do think Gen 6 was in the works at the time. I mean, look at the 3D Pokedex they released for the 3DS. Then compare to the models of X/Y of older Pokemon. The models are the EXACT same minus some cell-shading and pixely lines. This makes it evident that they were working on them for the next Pokemon game. At least, I think so.
     
    I'm having a hard time even processing this question.

    The most new pokemon in a single game EVER?
    Hidden abilities?
    Reusable TMs?

    Not only do I think that Gen V obviously added to the series - I'm not quite sure how anyone could think otherwise.
     
    I don't think this was filler at all. They put a lot of time into gen V, and it's very clear!

    - Reusable TMs
    - First main series games to be true sequels (GSC is a more loose sequel and doesn't count)
    - Hidden Abilities
    - Dream World
    - Tons of new Pokemon that made a big impact on competitive play
    - PETILIL!!!
    - Upping the story pretty well (I liked it, anyway)
    - Fully animated sprites
    - Gym leaders having other jobs (waiters, an actor, a model, etc)
    - Challenge/Easy mode keys
    - Making linking up actually worth the time and effort (Game Sync, N's Pokemon, Funfest)
    - Little to no reliance on HMs for world exploration

    There's also the whole thing of how they tried to make Unova a "fresh start" like Kanto by featuring only the new Pokemon in Black and White, and they had plenty to work with. Did it annoy people? Yes. But it still got the point across, I believe. It works and runs similar to Kanto and it does that well, which is what it was trying to do and I think it worked here. Black and White 2 added a lot of stuff too that made linking up actually worthwhile. Plus, both BW and BW2 were the first games that I felt actually got version exclusives right. We had different leaders in one place in BW, as well as different designs for a town and even different places. It wasn't just the same game with a few different Pokemon. They were actually different versions of Unova. There could have been more done, but what they had I felt was done right.

    Alright, enough blubbering from me. I actually really like Unova though and think it got a lot of things right and did too much for the franchise to really be considered "filler." It didn't do as much as, say, gen IV which added WiFi into the mix and the major physical/special split, but it still gave us some good stuff.
     
    I don't think it was filler at all. I think it was more of a bridge over.

    You had to jump consoles with X and Y but Gen 5 is almost identical to X and Y ( with the major exception of 3D models and not spirites ), they tried it on the DS first and got a good reaction so then they moved up. Plus it added hundreds of new stuff that Jak already mentioned.
     
    As soon as I saw the words "So was this generation just…" in the "Last Post" bit, I immediately face-palmed. I just ranted about this on Twitter, but no. This generation is NOT filler. You know, I read somewhere that BW were "just something they were making in-between XY". Despite that, there is more that this generation did than just that.

    As a lot of people have already said, there is a lot that Generation V introduced, like reusable TMs, which makes it nowhere near as much of a chore to try to get important moves for Pokémon (no more having to spend hours grinding in the Battle Frontier for an Earthquake TM!). And Hidden Abilities, also. These abilities really changed the ways that a LOT of Pokémon were used competitively, like Dragonite, Ninetales and a lot of other Pokémon that before were barely usable at all.

    Also, do you know what else BW does that it's the only main series game to do so far? Look at the end of the game. Not only do they stem on a different route from having you simply become the Champion, but the final battles actually throw a trainer controlled legendary at you. Granted, XD Gale of Darkness has done that, and so have the Master Battles in PBR, but we're talking main series here. As been mentioned, the game actually wants to make you think that training Pokémon is wrong, even though ultimately Ghetsis wanted to make Pokémon illegal for everyone but himself. That twist at the end really made for a grand ending that's original and different.

    As for Black 2 and White 2? I have talked about these games countless times. They are still my favorites in the series. While they traded the different approach for the "same" formula the series has always went by, I use the term "same" very loosely, because granted you're following a similar path but they did enhance it. It's not just "the same game as the previous adventure" like Emerald and Platinum (although Platinum fixes some major issues with DP) - they're actually continuing the story and making it different. In addition to that, for the time, they had more Pokémon to find in-game than any other. It also introduced actually decent rewards for Pokédex completion, like the Oval Charm and Shiny Charm. You also have the fact that Ghetsis does something that no other villain in the main series has done so far: actually attempt to kill/physically harm you, by trying to have Kyurem use Glaciate on you. And they had some neat version exclusive areas (like differences between Route 4, Reversal Mountain, the Plasma Frigate and Victory Road), the most important one being the trainer marathon Black Tower/White Treehollow, so they actually make it different between them.

    I won't talk too much about the PWT, but even if some people think that wasn't ideal, it did allow for some nice visits from past Gym Leaders. And like Emerald, a previous Gym Leader becomes a new Champion, but unlike Wallace, Iris actually gets some backstory to her thanks to the Memory Link (which I didn't mention above, but it's also something kinda neat). Her battle intro also has full body art for both you and her before it begins, which is the only battle in the DS era, or any pre-XY game, to do that.

    So no, I will never, EVER call Generation V filler. It did a lot for the series, and while XY may have expanded on the things that were new here, some of them aren't even present at all. Just my take on this matter.
     
    X and Y started being made a few months before Black and White came out. That much was confirmed by the director of the games. But Black and White also started being made right as Diamond and Pearl came out. It doesn't mean much because games can be large, time-consuming projects that involve lots of people from start to end, and they don't all necessarily work on it at the same time.

    Black and White came out in a slightly unusual time because the DS had an exceptionally long life-span than before, and 3DS had been unveiled at that time but not released for several months after the games came out in Japan. That did contribute to them deciding to try something unexpected with Black and White 2, but I don't think it necessarily impacted the games' quality or how much effort was put into them.
     
    Definitely not! I see Gen 5 as a "reboot" of the series since they fixed a bunch of mechanics that weren't working (TMs, for example) and expanded on a couple of concepts that Jak mentioned. Remember how BW was also marketed as a "new" start for the series? This reinforces why I believe this gen to be a reboot, as it kept all its old fans and brought in a whole new generation/etc of people who felt like they wanted to get into Pokemon.
     
    I agree that it could almost be classified as a "gen. 4.5", whoever said that. Especially with B2/W2. I feel like there were so many unnecessary changes to the games. However, as far as B/W go, it almost felt like an attempt to return to gen. I....in America haha. The saying "back to basics" comes to mind, except with the focus a lot more on the actual story and character development.
     
    I could see why someone would say that. X and Y at first glance seems revolutionary, all-new, unique, and a symbol of Game Freak turning a new page in the development of Pokemon games. The statement that Gen VI made may have caused some people to rethink B/W's importance, but it's obvious that Unova was an important and valuable region and without it, X and Y wouldn't have been the game it is now.

    The aspect of generation V that stands out the most to me is the story line. Unova contained one of the most detailed and intricate plots of any Pokemon games to this day, and although it wasn't entirely a success, I think it was a step in the right direction. Other small additions like reusable TMs and hidden abilities, as mentioned by several others before me, were huge in changing how Pokemon is played today.

    There's logic behind the assumption that generation V is just a filler, but concrete evidence as to why it isn't.
     
    No, generation 5 had many new advancements.... They just all failed miserably, it tried to revolutionize Pokemon, but really did nothing for it. I hate gen 5, as a matter of fact I usually forget it exists, Cuz Gen 6 is awesome, and still my fav gen even past it's initial glamour of being a new game, and gen 4 was just Pure awesomeness.... but not without a few flaws. So I hate gen 5. Kill me.
     
    I agree with Syd/Jak's post, there were still some changes 5th Gen made to still stand out from the crowd such as reusable TMs, B2/W2 were the first paired versions to be true sequels, the introduction of hidden abilities, more differences between versions, loads of major players in the competitive scene and also HMs weren't needed a lot to explore most of Unova. And of course for introducing my fave Pokemon of all time.

    I guess the reason why it's often viewed as "filler" was because the DS era lasted longer than first imagined, and given X and Y were in development at the time Black and White got released it showed they were eventually going to go to the 3DS one day, but not at that stage. 5th Gen really took new ideas with the Pokemon games, such as B/W being a shoutout to 1st Gen in that only new Pokemon were obtainable in the main story and also why some of the Pokemon designs were heavily based on 1st Gen Pokemon. Black 2 and White 2 were, as I mentioned the first true sequels to the games and also has probably the best postgame content in the entire series. I really enjoyed this generation a lot and I will always find time to play it again sometime.

    Even the 5th Gen Pokemon were very unique to me, I know they get a lot of flack for their designs but they are still viewed as Pokemon and they still have their niches. The generation also had some very memorable characters and in the case of B/W, the most epic story in the series so far. Even the moment where Ghetsis tried to deliberately kill you with Kyurem's Glaciate in B2/W2 gets special mention because most of the time, they'd never show this in most games targeted towards kids.

    5th Gen totally gave new possibilities and broke the mould so I give praise to Game Freak for that, changing for the future but still making it feel like the good old Pokemon games you know and love. I would imagine what Pokemon would be like today had 5th Gen not existed, it would have still been boring in mu opinion.
     
    I agree with many here: while I understand where the OP is coming from, I never saw Gen 5 as a filler. Sure, they are probably always planning new regions and games long beforehand, but there were many aspects of the Unova games that were so new and refreshing to the franchise that it should never be put aside as "not a proper gen" or something like that. Not just game mechanics wise.

    For one - it tried to make a completely fresh start. No old pokémon completely new, faraway region. A more "American" take on the pokémon journey, right? And the evil team was for the first time a lot deeper with a more complicated goal and ways to bring about it than previous ones. And the sequels! To do that and acknowledge that time had passed, with appearances from old characters, it was just amazing really. A huge step forward showing that pokémon isn't a franchise running out just yet.

    So perhaps you could say that Gen 5 was an experimental set of games in a way. But just as important anyways :3
     
    It's quite funny for you to say that, when I thought Gen II was the real filler. In many ways, Gen V tried to retcon the established system of the older regions, by making a new set of routes starting with 1, making the map unconnectable to the rest of the regions, basing it on somewhere outside Japan, etc. They were trying to start over a new leaf, as it were. Perhaps the criticism received may have changed their minds. See, I think Game Freak realised that people were getting bored with the system of new generations featuring stuff, and it became almost too predictable after Gen IV. So they decided to stamp in all these new features and just rehash the franchise in general. A big failure it may have become, but at least the fans are now content with the old system. In other words, it was trying to be different, a block apart. If it pulled off, maybe we would be talking about how Gen V was the 'turning point' for the franchise. It's the only core series generation that released in the same console as the older, if that's what you're asking. And there weren't any remakes, either. B2W2 was a quick response to this, stuffing in old Pokémon quickly enough and (imo) quite rushed when it comes to other aspects. (Kyurem fusion? DNA Splicer? Seriously?) I think what you're talking about here is the close gap between a revolutionary change and a lot of new small features here and there. Gen V didn't do anything major, but it did do a lot of small things worth mentioning that made the life of a generic fan (most especially the competitive type) much, much easier.

    And then again, look at the spinoffs. Gates to Infinity was an easier but a really much more engaging and awesome game, and Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition (Conquest) was simply a game with a much more realistically conceived mechanics and a much, much, much better battle system (save for only one move usable). It's just because it didn't involve something really revolutionary, and that's also mostly because they stuck with the same console, thus not allowing space for anything more revolutionary.
     
    I think there is plenty to distinguish gen5 from Gen4. I think BW had the best story. I appresiated the fact that ONLY new pokemon appeared. As a lifetime player of the games, it was fun NOT to see any of the old mons I had been playing with for the last 17 years of games. I loves seeing brand new pokes around every corner. I found a lot of favorites in Gen5 designs.

    If you play Gen4 and 5 side by side, you will notice that the battles are much faster in 5. The system feels sluggish in Gen4 by comparison.

    The sprites in BW feel more alive. Obviously 3D models is something everyone wanted, but Gen5 was the best of all the DS games.

    PWT gave us something we had been begging for, Gym Re-battles. PWT gave even the 1st Gym leaders like Brock and Roxane a chance to fight you at Lv.50 and really challenge you no matter how far you have come.

    The only thing I want back from Gen4 is Ball Capsules. (and Follow Me, of course.)
     
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