Sun & Moon - The End?

[Azire]

I just want to ask, have you seen the prices of older Pokémon games? There is no way Pokémon is ending when the older games still sell for almost the same price from when they were brand new.

Buying Pokémon games is always a good investment, these aren't games like Madden or Call of Duty where value drops faster when you walk out of the store than driving a brand new car off the lot.

Pokémon makes entirely too much money and the games lose hardly any value due to the connectivity. By restricting what you get in each game and releasing new games to get new stuff, the games should last forever. Remakes and new games will keep the franchise alive.

 

[François2]

I don't see it. We don't know the story of this region yet but Lunaala and Solgaleo seem like filler legends to me (in the sense that they're not extraordinarily important to the pokémon world, like BW's legendaries) and I just don't think they would end the series without a majorly impactful story including important legendaries. Of course you get into the issue of "what is there left after Sinnoh for important legends?" here, but I'm sure they could think of something more impactful than gen 7's cover legends (assuming I'm correct about them not being particularly noteworthy figures in the world).

This generation has been hyped but but it's not been hyped up to be a particularly important one, just a good one with lots of new stuff. "It all comes together" is surely indicative of something, but not anything like "the entire pokémon world ends with this region". I mean, if nothing else I think ending the games with a region based on Hawaii would just be kind of anti-climactic. This region is supposed to be fun and pretty, but it's not very deep.

Last note, and probably the most important one: they've not told us that this is the last generation. I can't imagine they could ever end the series without using its end as a marketing ploy. That would just be so wasteful of them.

 

[Solar Snivy]

I don't know think that having less powerful pokemon really debunks the threory.

I agree with the point about marketing, though. If this was the last pokemon game, they'd really hype it up and make a huge deal about it. They'd mention that it's the ultimate culmination to the series. They'd encourage people to get it, becuase it'd be the last pokemon game ever.

But pokemon sells far too well, and is too much of a mascot for nintendo. Look at the other huge franchises in Nintendo. Are they dying? Are they ending? No, because they're huge money earners. If anything happened, it'd be pokemon being developed by someone other than Game Freak, because Nintendo wouldn't want to let the franchise go.

 

[François2]

I don't know think that having less powerful pokemon really debunks the threory.

It just seems to me that they'd want to end the series on a bang on every front, and that includes probably having an extremely dramatic plot to the games on par with the plots for Sinnoh. The gen 7 legends don't seem to be the sort you can base an extremely important story around, and I just don't believe they'd end the series on a note like this. The last ever cover legends have to be a big deal, but Lunala and Solgaleo are just... run of the mill.

Xerneas and Yveltal could have been used as the final legends (life vs death essentially, can't get much better than that), but given these legends seem to represent... the sun and the moon, that's a bit tame. It's not quite as bad as the gen 5 legends not really representing much of anything, but it could be better.

 

[Pearlie]

I dont think they will end this series in a long time. Maybe there will be break when creator will die but when law allows it there will be successor. Or maybe they will make break for like 5 years to keep people waiting for the new release. I wanna say pretty words about being loyal to the game, making everyone happy, improving your creativity but let's face it they are making a lot of money here. This game isn't very difficult to make comparing to for example Metal Gear or Uncharted. They don't need any special effects, voice actors, brilliant music. I think a lot of you guys could make and probably maybe even tried to make fanversion of this game. Also remember that there are people who also earn money not on the game but anime and pokemon movies. So i think we will see pokemon games still for a quite few years :)

 

[Kirzaya]

This is a crapshoot theory and everyone should feel bad for it.

 

[WingsofBliss]

I don't see it. We don't know the story of this region yet but Lunaala and Solgaleo seem like filler legends to me (in the sense that they're not extraordinarily important to the pokémon world, like BW's legendaries) and I just don't think they would end the series without a majorly impactful story including important legendaries. Of course you get into the issue of "what is there left after Sinnoh for important legends?" here, but I'm sure they could think of something more impactful than gen 7's cover legends (assuming I'm correct about them not being particularly noteworthy figures in the world).

Solgaleo and Lunala are said to be emissaries of the sun and the moon. There's scientific proof that there would not be life on Earth in real life without the sun and the moon. I would say that's pretty significant, I can't imagine why somebody would be downplaying what's possibly being at play here. I'm really sorry if that sounded rude, but I'm honestly baffled by the notion that extremely important celestial objects like the sun and the moon are "insignificant" and "filler".

 

[François2]

Solgaleo and Lunala are said to be emissaries of the sun and the moon. There's scientific proof that there would not be life on Earth in real life without the sun and the moon. I would say that's pretty significant, I can't imagine why somebody would be downplaying what's possibly being at play here. I'm really sorry if that sounded rude, but I'm honestly baffled by the notion that extremely important celestial objects like the sun and the moon are "insignificant" and "filler".

Eh. I think one of the problems I'm having is that the sun and moon being celestial objects means that a) they're incredibly distant and b) they're incredibly large. That makes something threatening them pretty impractical and they'll need to stretch the story quite a bit to make "oh no, the sun is in danger!" a plotpoint. I mean I guess you could say Solgaleo fuels the sun's burning, but what does Lunala do for the moon? It has no functions outside of orbiting and rotating and I'd be surprised if GF tried to pass off "this pokémon causes a celestial body to move!" as lore, though I guess that would set up nicely for the third cover legend being responsible for the orbit of the Earth or something.

It was probably hasty for me to dismiss this set as filler legends but it is the vibe I instantly got from them and I remain somewhat sceptical of them having a particularly impactful story. Maybe the evil team will somehow use them to create a never-ending eclipse? That would certainly be more impactful than generation 5, but not as good as 6 or 4 I would say.

 

[Thunderflare]

Are they suggesting that there is a multi-million dollar franchise that Nintendo won't continue to milk more than the cow in the United States? POPPYCOCK!

Next will be...Pokemon Oxygen and Pokemon Carbon.

 

[Bellsprout]

I'm no good at guessing when it comes to things like this, but I think it would be a good move to make this game the end and then instead turn the focus to the quality of the entirety of new games and not new Pokemon. I for one would love to just have an awesome game with no new Pokemon.

 

[Bigdog]

I would say no. At least, not in the way where they end the games. Depending on the success of Go, they could integrate few concepts into Generation 8, but more dependent on the region being used instead of having every region and more. Meaning,the world actually factors into the games ,adapting mainly the time of day, general climate, and weather. Maybe even solar and lunar cycles to add more of a flair. I don't think they'll change the battle or catching mechanics . Also, Gold and Silver were known as the last games, but were so popular that the franchise lasted almost a decade after their release. I feel that since X/Y correlated with Red/Blue, Sun and Moon's correlation to Gold and Silver will be more overt. For the first time, we're not only going to get a second [likely the last region] region, but it won't be like GSC. It'll be different. We're probably also going to get the Johto starters. I won't really try to guess anything else, but this is what I think might happen.

Lugia- Rowlet could be Ghost
Ho-Oh- Popplio could be Psychic or Fairy.
Celebi- Litten could be Dark.

Maybe the final secondary types could be strong against this trio as the Kalos starters were based on their primary types, but less so. With how they got his new moves system in play... I really don't know.

 

[BettyNewbie]

The games will be The End if they're just more of the same-old we've gotten with the other games, IMO. If the massive popularity of Pok?mon Go is anything to go by, people want games that feel fresh and innovative, and I just haven't gotten any indication that Sun/Moon will do anything that past games haven't already done.

After 720 Pok?mon and 6 regions, the novelty of traveling to a brand new region and catching brand new Pok?mon wore off eons ago, especially when you keep on seeing the same tired old tropes and archetypes being repeated over and over. And, with these being 3DS games, Sun/Moon won't even be a significant graphical and mechanical upgrade from XY/ORAS. Why spend time and money on a tired rehash when you could instead get Pok?mon Go for your phone and start catching Pok?mon in the real world?

Gen 6 already finished as the worst selling generation yet, and Sun/Moon have the potential to do even worse. If Gen 7 flops, GF is going to have to rethink their strategy with the main games.

 

[blue]

The popularity of Pokemon GO must go in favour of the franchise. Although it is for a different platform, it is just a prime example of how popular Pokemon still is. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if the popularity of GO attracted or influenced players to actually pick up a copy of Sun & Moon.

 

[Hikamaru]

The games will be The End if they're just more of the same-old we've gotten with the other games, IMO. If the massive popularity of Pok?mon Go is anything to go by, people want games that feel fresh and innovative, and I just haven't gotten any indication that Sun/Moon will do anything that past games haven't already done.

After 720 Pok?mon and 6 regions, the novelty of traveling to a brand new region and catching brand new Pok?mon wore off eons ago, especially when you keep on seeing the same tired old tropes and archetypes being repeated over and over. And, with these being 3DS games, Sun/Moon won't even be a significant graphical and mechanical upgrade from XY/ORAS. Why spend time and money on a tired rehash when you could instead get Pok?mon Go for your phone and start catching Pok?mon in the real world?

Gen 6 already finished as the worst selling generation yet, and Sun/Moon have the potential to do even worse. If Gen 7 flops, GF is going to have to rethink their strategy with the main games.

You do have a point with GO stealing the fanbase from the main series at the moment due to its nostalgic roster of only the 1st Gen Pokemon and the fact it's capitalizing on the extremely popular mobile gaming market. I'm sure Sun & Moon have gone through a lot of development time (I heard it was going into development as soon as X/Y's release, so we're talking 2-3 years of development) so there's a good chance they'll be fleshed out and while Sun & Moon may continue the repetitive format with the main series there's a chance Game Freak may include something that's new and fresh in those games, or if not the case have GO's popularity be an influence in developing the 8th Gen titles.

 

[Thoriére]

Late to the party with this thread, and I only really skimmed it, but the consensus seems to be that capitalism says they're not going to cut this franchise off. If they stop making new games, it'll be when regions stop generating the kind of heavy revenue they are now. Games like Puyo Puyo (which are admittedly of a much different genre and come from another corporation entirely) have been around for longer, and still have an ever-expanding fanbase (worldwide releases like that of X and Y helped extend the hype, and, as with my previous example, the Puyo games are starting to gradually assimilate a following in the United States).

Personally, I think Nintendo is smarter than to beat a dead horse with this particular series. In all likelihood, if new regions cease production for a while, they'll probably just start re-releasing old consoles and remaking other generations; in fact, there's a "new" NES planned for sale, and they already circled around with ORAS. Who's to say they won't go bigger and better for Gen I, which remains untouched in remakes despite being arguably the most touted of the franchise? Don't tell me there aren't any Gen I stans on this thread. Even if you consume later games, nostalgia can be really insidious.

EDIT: And, honestly... What company would end a franchise that just constituted one of the largest upward trending stock shifts in market history? GO added $9 billion to their corporate value in... what, two weeks? Even if they give up on handhelds, they'll just move on to the freemium and mobile markets like they're already experimenting with.

 

[Altairis]

The popularity of Pokemon GO must go in favour of the franchise. Although it is for a different platform, it is just a prime example of how popular Pokemon still is. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if the popularity of GO attracted or influenced players to actually pick up a copy of Sun & Moon.

The thing is though, GO allows casual non-gamers to have access to a game that they probably all knew as a child. They know the Kanto Pokemon, nobody has to re-learn the Pokemon themselves and it's very easy to go through the game without knowing any of the new Pokemon features. I know a dozen people with GO who don't own 3DS's and 2/3 of them would never even consider buying one. So GO's popularity would not necessarily translate to a Pokemon video game being popular. Not a clear representation of the whole population obviously, but there's a difference between "Pokemon is still popular" and "The Pokemon GAMES are still popular."

Regardless, I still think that The Pokemon Company will make money off of a 3DS Pokemon game, even if it might not be as popular as the first generation. I can't really see this as the end. Also, I haven't read the rest of this thread, but if it's about that video that's circling on Youtube, I think it's wrong as well. I believe the video talked a lot about "The Pokemon universe" and "the timeline and events" but honestly, when has Nintendo REALLY cared about keeping up with that? Not just with Pokemon, but like, at all?

 

[BettyNewbie]

You do have a point with GO stealing the fanbase from the main series at the moment due to its nostalgic roster of only the 1st Gen Pokemon and the fact it's capitalizing on the extremely popular mobile gaming market. I'm sure Sun & Moon have gone through a lot of development time (I heard it was going into development as soon as X/Y's release, so we're talking 2-3 years of development) so there's a good chance they'll be fleshed out and while Sun & Moon may continue the repetitive format with the main series there's a chance Game Freak may include something that's new and fresh in those games, or if not the case have GO's popularity be an influence in developing the 8th Gen titles.

That is true, although remember that XY introduced a brand new type, brand new evolution mechanic, character customization, and a complete graphical overhaul from the previous games, and yet they still ended up underperforming in sales and getting a ton of complaints about not being innovative enough.

At this point, Sun/Moon are going to have to do a complete and total makeover of the main series formula to get people's attention, which I don't see happening.

The thing is though, GO allows casual non-gamers to have access to a game that they probably all knew as a child. They know the Kanto Pokemon, nobody has to re-learn the Pokemon themselves and it's very easy to go through the game without knowing any of the new Pokemon features. I know a dozen people with GO who don't own 3DS's and 2/3 of them would never even consider buying one. So GO's popularity would not necessarily translate to a Pokemon video game being popular. Not a clear representation of the whole population obviously, but there's a difference between "Pokemon is still popular" and "The Pokemon GAMES are still popular."

This is something else a lot of people forget. At least since Gen 4, the main series games have drifted further and further away from mainstream casual audiences and towards hardcore competitive players, which has been reflected with the steady decline in sales after DP. Competitive battling may seem popular online, but in reality it's an extremely niche community and a minority of Pok?mon fans.

Pok?mon Go appeals to a wider, broader audience in a way that the main series games haven't in a very long time. It's a very simple "pick up and play" game in the same vein as the original RBY, and it lacks the overwhelming complexity of the more recent main series releases.

It's GF's prerogative if they want to continue ignoring casual audiences in favor of hardcore players, but they shouldn't be surprised if sales continue declining.

 

[Hikamaru]

That is true, although remember that XY introduced a brand new type, brand new evolution mechanic, character customization, and a complete graphical overhaul from the previous games, and yet they still ended up underperforming in sales and getting a ton of complaints about not being innovative enough.

At this point, Sun/Moon are going to have to do a complete and total makeover of the main series formula to get people's attention, which I don't see happening.

This is something else a lot of people forget. At least since Gen 4, the main series games have drifted further and further away from mainstream casual audiences and towards hardcore competitive players, which has been reflected with the steady decline in sales after DP. Competitive battling may seem popular online, but in reality it's an extremely niche community and a minority of Pok?mon fans.

Pok?mon Go appeals to a wider, broader audience in a way that the main series games haven't in a very long time. It's a very simple "pick up and play" game in the same vein as the original RBY, and it lacks the overwhelming complexity of the more recent main series releases.

It's GF's prerogative if they want to continue ignoring casual audiences in favor of hardcore players, but they shouldn't be surprised if sales continue declining.

You do have a point, especially with the rumor of Sun & Moon ditching traditional Gyms and considering how drastic of a change that will be, that does give a point to Sun & Moon possibly doing a complete makeover of how main series titles work.

There's also the huge focus on competitive players, as you said, and it's that competitive focus that has caused most of the postgame content as of late to be lacking. Doing the repetitive format that every main series title has done so far has seen tons of people leave the fandom and Pokemon has become a shell of its former self.

GO was not just Pokemon's attempt to get into the mobile market, it was also an attempt to see Pokemon return to levels of popularity not seen since the PokeMania fad.

What Sun & Moon have to get right when you put all these factors in is to change up the main series format drastically so that older players won't get bored, introduce new competitive mechanics and way to train for competitive, but also make sure the casual players don't get left out, and also have a fully-fleshed story since X/Y fell extremely flat with its story compared to most other main series titles. If 7th Gen bombs, then Game Freak need to learn from what made GO successful and take ideas from that when developing 8th Gen.

 

[mikey]

Doubtful. As long as there is still money to be made, and people like the series, they will pump out games. Like others have said here, the recent success of Go is an indication of this.

 

[MarinoKadame]

If only most of competitive players could stop calling hacked pokemons when they see more than 2 shiny pokemon. I think the huge cheat problem the competitive scene has is mostly because of the IV system. The IV system need a change same with the breeding. People are genning pokemon so they don't have to hatch thousands of eggs to get the one with the right IVs for competitive.

Also changing how the IV work may also change Hidden Power since it would make em able to add Fairy typing on it.