Sun & Moon - The End?

[BettyNewbie]

You do have a point, especially with the rumor of Sun & Moon ditching traditional Gyms and considering how drastic of a change that will be, that does give a point to Sun & Moon possibly doing a complete makeover of how main series titles work.

With all of the fake rumors going around, I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't come from an official, reliable source. It could be interesting if that did happen, although I don't see GF doing it.

There's also the huge focus on competitive players, as you said, and it's that competitive focus that has caused most of the postgame content as of late to be lacking. Doing the repetitive format that every main series title has done so far has seen tons of people leave the fandom and Pokemon has become a shell of its former self.

Tell me about it. GF's idea of a "postgame" seems to be tossing in a battle facility and calling it a day. It seems like they really want people to start breeding and EV-ing up a brand new team to use in the battle facilities or against other people, which leaves very little for people who have zero interest in that stuff.

What Sun & Moon have to get right when you put all these factors in is to change up the main series format drastically so that older players won't get bored, introduce new competitive mechanics and way to train for competitive, but also make sure the casual players don't get left out, and also have a fully-fleshed story since X/Y fell extremely flat with its story compared to most other main series titles. If 7th Gen bombs, then Game Freak need to learn from what made GO successful and take ideas from that when developing 8th Gen.

I agree. GF really needs to start making casual players a priority again, especially now that they have serious competition from within the franchise (Pok?mon Go). Casuals are who made the franchise a success in the first place, after all.

 

[Hikamaru]

With all of the fake rumors going around, I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't come from an official, reliable source. It could be interesting if that did happen, although I don't see GF doing it.

At E3 someone asked Masuda and Ohmori what goal you needed to do to become champion and they said "island trials" which does sorta back up the rumor that traditional Gyms may not be present in Alola.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The games will be The End if they're just more of the same-old we've gotten with the other games, IMO. If the massive popularity of Pokémon Go is anything to go by, people want games that feel fresh and innovative, and I just haven't gotten any indication that Sun/Moon will do anything that past games haven't already done.

Pokémon would've stopped being popular a long time ago if that were the case (in Gen III when the fad started to die down), and yet it still continued. And tell me, if people really want games that feel fresh and innovative, then they shouldn't have been petitions to cancel Federation Force and Color Splash, which are completely different from their predecessors.

After 720 Pokémon and 6 regions, the novelty of traveling to a brand new region and catching brand new Pokémon wore off eons ago, especially when you keep on seeing the same tired old tropes and archetypes being repeated over and over. And, with these being 3DS games, Sun/Moon won't even be a significant graphical and mechanical upgrade from XY/ORAS. Why spend time and money on a tired rehash when you could instead get Pokémon Go for your phone and start catching Pokémon in the real world?

You're starting to sound more like an elitist that's speaking to everyone in the fandom, when really you're only speaking for yourself. Not everyone's tired of the newer Pokémon games, and how exactly is Sun/Moon not an upgrade when the difference in overworld sprites with XY/ORAS should've been more obvious. There's also a ton of animals, plants, objects and myths that have yet to get the Pokémon treatment, and there's also still a lack of diversity in certain types that need more attention. You just want the games to return to the R/B days and completely alienate the competitive community, which is only going to upset a large part of the community. And allow me to provide you on why GO won't affectedly harm the mainline games.

Gen 6 already finished as the worst selling generation yet, and Sun/Moon have the potential to do even worse. If Gen 7 flops, GF is going to have to rethink their strategy with the main games.

So long as Game Freak is satisfied with a targeted number of sales it sold, it wouldn't be considered a failure. Companies these days rely too much on having their high-budget games to make CoD sales (coughsquarecough), whereas Game Freak and Nintendo develop games at a low budget and have nothing to worry about setting a high standard on how much they sell to be profitable.

 

[CyborgHD]

I don't think so. Nintendo doesn't have as much popularity as they did before, and so, ending one of their more popular franchises after S/M would be awful for them. I think we should expect more games to come after S/M.

 

[Denrew]

I don't think that S/M will be the last game for Pokémon series IMO

First and foremost, the target market of Pokémon are kids. Of course if there's any
feature that an adult gamer doesn't like from Pokémon in his/her own perspective,
it doesn't mean kids will do the same. Children and adults have different level
of interest. I'm not saying that we don't matter, everyone's entitled to their
own opinion but it's really up to the person with power to make decision to
consider it.

The second reason would be the number of species. You can't expect to selfishly
satisfy yourself with 722 Pokémon to exist. Pokemon are fictional creatures which
probably conceptualized using irl species and existence depending on different
place. (And w/ Pokémon, space aliens as well). We have millions of different
species existing in our planet. I'm not saying that Pokémon should have the same
number of species before GF ends the game, it's in their own discretion how and
when to end it, but if the concept is actually based from irl species, then there's
a lot to expect from Pokémon game.

And lastly, the story behind each region we explore for different generation and game
version. IMO, this is the most important part of the game. Because in this part, we
see and experience all the improvements, difference and how the game's mechanics
change. There's always room for improvement especially when you try to cover
a story of the vast universal world.

Anyways, we have our own reason to love Pokémon and as long GF considers the
number of people playing Pokémon, expect them to create more future Pokémon
games.

 

[TRGrunt]

Yeah the chances of them ending Pokemon after S/M are pretty much zero. They're making a ton of money, and they are still good games.

 

[BettyNewbie]

They're making a ton of money, and they are still good games.

That's the problem, though. Sales have steadily declined since DP, and I see little indication that Sun/Moon will reverse that trend. XY added a ton of new features both graphically and mechanically, and the games still ended up being the worst-selling gen yet. Sun/Moon will likely add far less, and to make matters worse, they're being released on the tail end of the 3DS' lifespan. Games released late in a handheld's lifespan have historically sold poorly (see Crystal and B2W2).

As I said, the main series games just don't have mainstream appeal anymore. Japanese kids would rather play Yokai Watch, and Pokémon Go has now snapped up the young and otherwise casual fans elsewhere. All that's left are the hardcore/competitive fans, who are a minority of Pokémon players. Again, if GF is fine just catering to that niche demographic, that's their business, but they shouldn't expect blockbuster sales from the games here on out (and neither should fans, for that matter).

 

[Hikamaru]

Betty has a point because Japanese kids have decided to leave Pokemon in favor of other franchises that are offering more innovation which Pokemon seems to be lacking, although I believe Game Freak may have take some inspiration from Yo-Kai Watch with Pokedex Rotom's role reminding me heavily of Whisper.

Also Pokemon GO has become a fierce competitor within the franchise due to being on a different platform than the main series, that of course being phones and mobile gaming has a huge fanbase due to the accessibility. As Betty mentioned, Sun & Moon are also coming out at what is considered nearly the end of the 3DS which tends to scream bad sales as mentioned with Crystal and B2/W2, the only difference is that Sun & moon are the first main games coming at the tail-end of a console lifespan that is introducing a new generation for Pokemon.

We also don't know what will succeed the 3DS, whether it'd be the NX or something else entirely. The latter is my guess since the NX looks likely to be the Wii U successor.

 

[Kahnu]

New to this thing but his theory is just plain wrong. The '''''''revive''''' he was talking about and the '''''connection'''''' was for the 5th move thing that the trainer does with his Pokemon. Just with that picks apart A LOT of what he says....

 

[Denrew]

Before we use the sales figures to compare each Pokémon games,
we must first take into consideration the following:

- The target timetable where the monitoring was conducted.
- The continuous production and availability of the game in the market (cart and software installation)
- The consoles applicable for the franchise. (Game migrations to newer consoles)
- The actual sales target of the company for the game "each year".
- The "exact", "factual" and "complete" materials needed to come up with more informative explanation.
- And the right knowledge to make plausible interpretations.

"Most" of these can only be provided by GF and Nintendo, "information" which are not open to the public. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, that's the reason why I'm not tackling the issue referring to sales figures. As a Pokémon gamer returnee, I chose to read vast reviews from notable game review websites and read discussions from different forums before deciding to buy XY and ORAS.

 

[WingsofBliss]

There's one thing that I've been never been able to understand... and it's the mentality of blaming Game Freak's "lack of innovation". The reason why these particular complaints have always made me face-palm is because of the fans themselves: they are the same people that have kept buying the product for years on end. If you think the games are so crappy in the innovation department, then why exactly have you been buying every game in existense for the past 20 years? With that said, you can't exactly blame Game Freak as the main cause of it; when it's the fans that keep buying their products and staying loyal, that sends a signal to the developer that what they're doing is the best way.

 

[Fortis92]

Oh I just made a topic about this one! hahaha! Yeah I think the points that they made were just too great at times, Its so good that they gave me goosebumps. Like the Solgaleo and Ho-oh connection and Lunala and Lugia, and the azoth spellings which has alpha and omega. then the Hindu connections. The tree of life, The alchemy symbol of gold and so on.

 

[TRGrunt]

That's the problem, though. Sales have steadily declined since DP, and I see little indication that Sun/Moon will reverse that trend. XY added a ton of new features both graphically and mechanically, and the games still ended up being the worst-selling gen yet. Sun/Moon will likely add far less, and to make matters worse, they're being released on the tail end of the 3DS' lifespan. Games released late in a handheld's lifespan have historically sold poorly (see Crystal and B2W2).

As I said, the main series games just don't have mainstream appeal anymore. Japanese kids would rather play Yokai Watch, and Pokémon Go has now snapped up the young and otherwise casual fans elsewhere. All that's left are the hardcore/competitive fans, who are a minority of Pokémon players. Again, if GF is fine just catering to that niche demographic, that's their business, but they shouldn't expect blockbuster sales from the games here on out (and neither should fans, for that matter).

It's interesting that you bring up Pokemon Go. I don't know much about recent sales, but if they have been declining then having something like Go is the best thing to turn it around. It's probably the first pokemon related thing many people have played in a while, so it may get them interested in Sun/Moon. Go put pokemon back in the mainstream.

 

[TRGrunt]

They haven't been declining. X/Y is the biggest selling game on the 3DS, and comparing them to past generations on other systems is really comparing apples and oranges. If you're going to compare, compare X/Y to every game of roughly the same console (DS/3DS), and you'll see that GameFreak is hardly struggling. BettyNewbie's graph also did not account for either third games or remakes, both which heavily factor into revenue and I'm not sure why any reasonable statistic would omit that.

This is not some end-of-the-world scenario that some are painting it to be. Far from it.

Yeah I imagine that X and Y did well, and the series in general. And let's be honest, Pokemon is probably the best thing GF has going right now (unless someone can say otherwise). GF wouldn't logically throw away a franchise like this just yet.

 

[BettyNewbie]

It's interesting that you bring up Pokemon Go. I don't know much about recent sales, but if they have been declining then having something like Go is the best thing to turn it around. It's probably the first pokemon related thing many people have played in a while, so it may get them interested in Sun/Moon. Go put pokemon back in the mainstream.

While Go and the main series games are both Pokémon, they're not made by the same people (Go was made by Niantic Labs), so Go's success isn't necessarily a boon for GF.

While some Go players may later go out and get Sun/Moon, Go seems to appeal to a completely different demographic than the main series games, IMO. You see both young kids and older nostalgic fans playing Go, and I'm not sure if Sun/Moon carries much appeal to those people.

 

[TRGrunt]

While Go and the main series games are both Pokémon, they're not made by the same people (Go was made by Niantic Labs), so Go's success isn't necessarily a boon for GF.

While some Go players may later go out and get Sun/Moon, Go seems to appeal to a completely different demographic than the main series games, IMO. You see both young kids and older nostalgic fans playing Go, and I'm not sure if Sun/Moon carries much appeal to those people.

Are you kidding me? Of course young kids and older fans still play the games. At the very least, Go has people talking about Pokemon now. It doesn't matter that it isn't made by GF, it can still make people interested in the main games.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Not to mention software and TGC sales increased in the UK due to Pokémon GO, so it's not keeping people away from buying the mainline games. Also, the fact that Pokémon GO's booming so quickly showcases that it's too early to end the franchise.

 

[James169]

While Go and the main series games are both Pokémon, they're not made by the same people (Go was made by Niantic Labs), so Go's success isn't necessarily a boon for GF.

While some Go players may later go out and get Sun/Moon, Go seems to appeal to a completely different demographic than the main series games, IMO. You see both young kids and older nostalgic fans playing Go, and I'm not sure if Sun/Moon carries much appeal to those people.

Regardless of the developer, don't pretend that Pokemon Go is having anything other than a positive effect for the Pokemon brand ahead of Sun & Moon. Pokemon Go is currently a worldwide phenomenon and is even getting Pokemon free advertisement in the few months ahead of the launch of the main series games.

What free advertisement you might ask- I was getting some breakfast from a local Subway and they had the radio on, the segment they were doing this morning they were trying to find the oldest Pokemon (Go) trainer in the south west of England and were getting calls from people in their 50's (I think the oldest at the point when I left was 58), they were also getting people texting and saying where particular Pokemon could be found. This was a good 30 minutes plus of people just talking about Pokemon and being broadcast to millions without a penny paid. This and the fact it is one of the top available apps already shows how popular it is, and I'd imagine that TV adverts for the main series games will probably start in about a month or so, if not sooner.

The timing of the release of Pokemon Go has been a stroke of genius by The Pokemon Company (who worked with Niantic on this) even if it wasn't initially planned to be released this late in the year, getting such a frenzy about the app, and then following up with the adverts for Sun & Moon is about as good as they could possibly plan it to be. People who are playing Go for the nostalgia of catching the Pokemon they caught as a kid but then stopped playing may well be tempted to try the new games upon their release, particularly the ones who have a 3DS already.

 

[Rai]

^ I agree with what people are saying about Pokemon Go.

From a marketing standpoint, it wouldn't make any sense. Pokemon is still very popular. It is one of the best selling games in the world and, especially with the release of Pokemon Go, the company is making millions.

Because of this, I highly doubt the franchise is going to end anytime soon.

 

[Leftovers Go]

The guy in the video makes a lot of great points, however I feel that he was really stretching it in some points