Super Smash Bros. Discussion

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Wait, isn't Fates coming out in NA in February also? Perhaps it'll be the same day. I should rewatch the Direct seeing how I missed when they introduced her/him.

 

[Kameken]

Bayonetta looks cool, I honestly can't even express how angry I am that another Fire Emblem character is the very last we'll be getting. If there were a chance more characters would be made, it'd be fine, but from what I've heard it's all over.

There's not enough salt in any ocean.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

The salt was unavoidable, really. No matter who was picked, there would be so much salt.

Corrin, in particular...it just seems like there's this instant idea that he was chosen over other characters, and people are upset over that. Which is odd, considering that Sakurai said no such thing, and really, the fact that we got two characters tonight was a surprise in itself. As far as we know, he's just an option. Options are nice. Likely, he was added because of the popularity of If in Japan or because they wanted to promote Fates in the West. Or both. Considering this mutual relationship that Smash has with FE, I wouldn't be particularly surprised either way, and I don't think his inclusion is made better or worse for it.

Sodium Nitrate aside, Corrin seems fun (as does Cloud), and a friend of mine's been hyped for Bayonetta for about a year now. I, personally, haven't bought any DLC characters yet, and I'm still not sure if I will. For me, though, this Direct really was about the hype, as well as a possible sendoff to Sakurai. That's guy's worked too damn hard and it's unknown if he'll work on another Smash game (with good reason). The Smash 64 credits playing at the end got me because of that, because it really felt like it was the end of...something. Who knows where we- or Smash, rather, will go from here?

But the salt does have their own legit reasons:

Wolf - Last remaining Brawl veteran people want back, since Snake is no longer possible due to the recent reputation of Konami, and people thought he'll be saved to tie-in with Star Fox Zero.

King K. Rool - The Donkey Kong Country series is one of Nintendo's best-selling franchises, yet it doesn't have all of its key-important supporting cast while all the other franchises are pretty much complete. Plus there's no true heavyweight newcomer in Smash 4 unlike the past 3 entries.

Inkling - Nintendo's biggest IP with the biggest potential of a unique play style.

Isaac - The only "generic anime swordsman" the Smash community cares for, especially with his Earth-based psynergy, which isn't shared by anyone in the roster yet.

Banjo-Kazooie - Once Nintendo icons have sold to Microsoft, but with Nintendo and Microsoft's recent relationship thanks to Minecraft, there was a glimmer of hope for their inclusion.

Dixie Kong - Same with K. Rool, minus the heavyweight statement.

 

[machomuu]

But the salt does have their own legit reasons:

Wolf - Last remaining Brawl veteran people want back, since Snake is no longer possible due to the recent reputation of Konami, and people thought he'll be saved to tie-in with Star Fox Zero.

King K. Rool - The Donkey Kong Country series is one of Nintendo's best-selling franchises, yet it doesn't have all of its key-important supporting cast while all the other franchises are pretty much complete. Plus there's no true heavyweight newcomer in Smash 4 unlike the past 3 entries.

Inkling - Nintendo's biggest IP with the biggest potential of a unique play style.

Isaac - The only "generic anime swordsman" the Smash community cares for, especially with his Earth-based psynergy, which isn't shared by anyone in the roster yet.

Banjo-Kazooie - Once Nintendo icons have sold to Microsoft, but with Nintendo and Microsoft's recent relationship thanks to Minecraft, there was a glimmer of hope for their inclusion.

Dixie Kong - Same with K. Rool, minus the heavyweight statement.

This goes right back to what I said.

it just seems like there's this instant idea that he was chosen over other characters, and people are upset over that. Which is odd, considering that Sakurai said no such thing, and really, the fact that we got two characters tonight was a surprise in itself. As far as we know, he's just an option. Options are nice.

And Sakurai's spoken on this before, stating that the inclusion of certain characters didn't deprive other characters of their spots. We have no reason to believe that that isn't the case here. But that's where the salt (most of it, at least) comes from, as you said, which I'd say is jumping to conclusions without a real basis for said conclusions.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

This goes right back to what I said.



And Sakurai's spoken on this before, stating that the inclusion of certain characters didn't deprive other characters of their spots. We have no reason to believe that that isn't the case here. But that's where the salt (most of it, at least) comes from, as you said, which I'd say is jumping to conclusions without a real basis for said conclusions.

Except for the fact that this is the last DLC content for Smash 4, which is a sole reason for fans to be salty, with some doubting there will be another Smash game for the next system. Furthermore, the last three character placeholders from the data files indicated that certain characters will deprive other characters for their spots, especially those that have been waiting in line since Melee.

 

[machomuu]

Except for the fact that this is the last DLC content for Smash 4, which is a sole reason for fans to be salty, with some doubting there will be another Smash game for the next system. Furthermore, the last three character placeholders from the data files indicated that certain characters will deprive other characters for their spots, especially those that have been waiting in line since Melee.

I still don't particularly think this changes anything.

As far as this being the last of the DLC content, as well as possibly the last Smash, I will say that that is a completely legitimate reason to be disappointed in the Direct. It didn't go the way you wanted it to and you were upset, that makes sense. Turning the salt towards Corrin's inclusion, however, is a case of misplaced salt. And that is happening. That makes less sense (though, despite that, it's no less predictable).

As far as the placeholders go, again, that's legitimate reason for disappointment...to an extent. While that does set certain expectations, they're placeholders that were found and don't give any explicit info. They weren't given this info by Nintendo and the placeholders didn't explain anything. They were simply that: placeholders. It's pretty likely that even Sakurai and Co. didn't know where they'd go with DLC characters or how many they'd have, and it's not uncommon that placeholder be added just in case. To which I say, expecting specific things from that information is pretty much setting yourself up for disappointment. After all, placeholders existing doesn't ensure anything, it was likely merely a precaution. Drawing conclusions from that and expecting not to get burned is a risky business. I say it's a "legitimate reason" only because I can understand why something like that could raise hopes, but any salt is produces is only the fault of the person in question, not the placeholders.

In short, it was non-informational content that was found by a 3rd party via 3rd party means and really should have been taken with more salt than was raised because of it, because objectively that content was not indicative of anything.

 

[Megan]

Corrin (I guess that really was the official English name) and Bayonetta? Was really not expecting that that. Or at least I wasn't expecting Bayonetta in get in. iirc she did have a fair bit of support but I thought for sure that other characters had more votes than her and that her coming from an M rated game might be a slight problem.

Wasn't the the reason for her inclusion not only her popularity, but also the fact, that she was the most popular of all the implementable characters? That could mean there were other more popular picks who didn't make it, because they were just not implementable into the game.

I don't really have an opinion, tbh. Well, at least Corrin isn't the usual sword-only FE fighter and Bayonetta looks like a lot of combos will be made. {XD}

I'm not a hugh fan of DLC and I have to admit, that the reveal didn't really change my opinion on that.

 

[acatfrommars]

I'm excited to see Bayonetta enter the game; I thought that she would be one of the new characters included from the start! I think that her gun concept will be cool, and I feel like she will be a slower character like Palutena.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Except for the fact that this is the last DLC content for Smash 4, which is a sole reason for fans to be salty, with some doubting there will be another Smash game for the next system. Furthermore, the last three character placeholders from the data files indicated that certain characters will deprive other characters for their spots, especially those that have been waiting in line since Melee.

Why are they doubting that there will be a Smash 5 for NX? Actually I think that one of the reasons that these will be the last DLC is that Nintendo is going to be moving on with making Smash 5 in the next few years. I can see Sakurai taking a year off as Nintendo works on telling us what the NX is and marketing it, then Smash 5 production starting sometime in 2017, with a possible holiday release by 2017 (possibly with with DLC in mind, which would also help enable it to be released earlier than one might expect).

 

[machomuu]

Why are they doubting that there will be a Smash 5 for NX? Actually I think that one of the reasons that these will be the last DLC is that Nintendo is going to be moving on with making Smash 5 in the next few years. I can see Sakurai taking a year off as Nintendo works on telling us what the NX is and marketing it, then Smash 5 production starting sometime in 2017, with a possible holiday release by 2017 (possibly with with DLC in mind, which would also help enable it to be released earlier than one might expect).

Considering the fatigue that Sakurai had after the game's development, the injuries he had during it, and his own statements that suggested that Smash 4 might very well be his last Smash game, that's where this comes from. Well, that and that there hasn't been any sort of statement by the studio or Nintendo saying that it would continue.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Considering the fatigue that Sakurai had after the game's development, the injuries he had during it, and his own statements that suggested that Smash 4 might very well be his last Smash game, that's where this comes from. Well, that and that there hasn't been any sort of statement by the studio or Nintendo saying that it would continue.

Plus whoever's going to replace Sakurai as the new director for the next Smash game may not follow the same philosophies he's established and will get very cut happy, meaning these guys are in real danger of getting axed by the possible new director:

Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Shiek, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Dark Pit, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Greninja, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, and Mii Fighters.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Plus whoever's going to replace Sakurai as the new director for the next Smash game may not follow the same philosophies he's established and will get very cut happy, meaning these guys are in real danger of getting axed by the possible new director:

Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Dr. Mario, Shiek, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Dark Pit, Roy, Ike, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Greninja, Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, and Mii Fighters.

Don't forget Cloud and Bayonneta. They seem like characters that might not be here to stay...

 

[machomuu]

I can't see a lot of characters being there, honestly. If anything, I can't much see the replacement not going for a more exclusively Nintendo roster and trimming the guest fat, as well as kicking out some of the more eccentric (albeit very cleverly implemented) entries.

And yeah, Pinkie. Sakurai was a special guy with a lot of ideas, and he put more into Smash than I've seen of most developers with teams his size or even those smaller than his. It's really for that reason that I can't help but see this as the potential end of an era. Content and character-wise, each Smash was very unique and different from the last, and I think it'd take a particularly ambitious successor to not have the replacement go the other way and make Smash 5 onwards' features be safe, rely on the past, or take considerable notes from established fighting franchises (and I believe the same could be said for the roster as well).

Though there is always the chance that someone from the team involved with the development of Smash who worked closely with Sakurai will take the helm, possibly attempting to carry on his ideas, way of thinking, and like. Which isn't to say I think any replacement that isn't Sakurai would be objectively worse or even that a different mindset would be unwelcome, but what Sakurai did worked because he was so damn ambitious with the game, and I do worry about the prospect of Smash 5 being a safe upgrade rather than an ambitious new mystery.

 

[Z25]

Just popping in to say that I like the last two characters, although no wolf is sad. Corin I can accept because FE is huge and that moveset is really unique so I can't complain. Bayonetta is out there but looks like an awesome addition to. And as for next Smash, Sakurai will always end up director, but he will have a long break before then. I do think Smash NX is happening, and it will be much easier to make( as will future games probably with today's technology). They can port things over easily, so it would be a lot stressful and fulfill the fan demand for several more years.

 

[Dter ic]

I don't play either of the characters respective games yet I was still excited to seea new character announced whoever it was going to be. I lied the fact that all the new characters bring a new mechanic to play with which make then interesting characters to play both casually and competitively.

Beyonetta's combo's look so crazy from the direct presentation that she'd probably banned competitively :P

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

Don't forget Cloud and Bayonneta. They seem like characters that might not be here to stay...

That may be true for Cloud's case, but some argue that Bayonetta is in a weird position, since her second game was published by Nintendo, making her a second-party character.

And as for next Smash, Sakurai will always end up director, but he will have a long break before then. I do think Smash NX is happening, and it will be much easier to make( as will future games probably with today's technology). They can port things over easily, so it would be a lot stressful and fulfill the fan demand for several more years.

Thing is though, Sakurai had stated in a previous interview that they design all of the veteran fighters from scratch when making a new Smash game, meaning they never port character data from a last gen game. Plus as mentioned by machomuu, they wouldn't play safe in Smash 5 and create a Smash 4 2.0 for the next system and want to evolve the series further.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

They can also go ahead and release it with between 25-35 character and do DLC (free hopefully, at least for the first few) to give themselves more time.

 

[shadowmoon522]

That may be true for Cloud's case, but some argue that Bayonetta is in a weird position, since her second game was published by Nintendo, making her a second-party character.

their both in weird positions

 

[Lunalie]

Something that has gone a bit overlooked here is that there were balance changes in this most recent patch.

https://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-3-patch-notes.425921/

Shulk about half of his kit got damage buffed by .5% and all of his Aerials had their landing lag reduced by two frames.
This makes me happy. ^_^

 

[machomuu]

their both in weird positions

Nah, that doesn't really count. It was intended but wasn't ever licensed, so Cloud doesn't really have any ties to Nintendo, objectively.

With that in mind, I did find his inclusion as a bit of a full-circle deal because of the original intent to have FFVII on the N64. 'S just a fun little thing to see 20ish years later.