The 100 word rule

[moon]

Once upon a time, we had more fluent rules for what "too short IC posts" was. The moderator pretty much decided what was ok and what was not. Back in 2011 I waged a battle against one liners... The memories make me shudder.

We implemented the less fluent 100 word rule for the same reason: in the Roleplay Corner Theater, we build stories together as if we were multiple authors writing a novel. Pretty much. The roleplays should be legible and enjoyable. Some roleplays take this to heart to the point where every post feels like a chapter in a novel :p Often they are also JPs.

But other RPs just fit better with shorter posts. Perhaps you need to interact with a lot of player at once and don't want to decide with whom to JP because it'd be unnatural, or perhaps you just don't have a lot to write about before you want something else (or someone) to happen. So I want to ask you guys here, do you think it's justified to keep a word limit and demand a certain length (for quality's sake) of IC posts, or is the rule more hindering than helpful?


Personally, I think I'm still supporting the 100 word rule. My own RP, Crossroads, mostly consists of missions done by players in pairs, meaning a lot of long JPs. But at the beginning of the last chapter, we suddenly met up for the first time, all of us, and I allowed for shorter posts. I didn't at all find it difficult to cram in 100 words in each post. Maybe it's because I'm used to longer stuff though.

I think it's comfortable to make shorter posts and often prefer it to longer JP or solo stuff. But less than 100 words? That's just... Not much to read at all. A very short JP between two players to express an exchange of one line of dialogue at a time would be better than loads of IC posts imo. But what do you think?

 

[Ice1]

I can see it being troublesome for people to write interaction based posts in very crowded situations, or dialogue, but I would do those posts over PM, and post the final product, instead of back and forthing constantly. I like it if story progresses faster than just simple short posts. I want actual plot development from the posts.

 

[gimmepie]

Above all else, posts that short are boring. They contain nothing. Nobody can possibly get anything with any point out of them.

Roleplaying is about fun yes, but I think it is important we aim to make RPs fun for everyone who might be participating/reading the RP not just for ourselves.

 

[moon]

And therein lies the question, perhaps. On this RP site, are we doing it mostly for the fun of the moment or to build something that can be fun later as well? I'm guessing it's the later kind of thinking that caused an admin years back to shoot down my suggestion about a subforum for more casual roleplays.

I've been to another RP site where they actually distinguished RPs on a scale of how much effort you would be expected to put into them. "Casual" meant minimal SUs, not too advanced settings and plot and one liners being okay, while "Advanced" meant proper background, detailed SUs and long, well written posts. Here, we mostly lean towards their Advanced definition, I'd say.

 

[Ice1]

I could see an adjective in the OP working, and in the title. [C] for casual, which allows shorter posts, like Darker than it seems, and for serious, which expects the players to have longer posts, like Titans.

 

[moon]

That is a way... But I'd be a bit wary if some people started shunning casual RPs or others didn't want/dare to try serious RPs. Not sure a distinction is even good. Some RPs (like many of mine) invite any kind of posts that fit the general RPT rules.

 

[Lumina]

The 100 word rule is one of the major reasons I don't RP here. I find it very difficult to express myself in anything more than as few words as realistically possible. That said, it probably just means I'm not cut out for roleplays. And the theoretical removal or relaxing of this rule wouldn't be enough on its own to bring me in, I don't think.

I think the rule itself is a good thing, for the sake of making every post meaningful and, like, doing something. But it does keep the more casual people away, I would think.

 

[FenikkusuKasai]

I've been to another RP site where they actually distinguished RPs on a scale of how much effort you would be expected to put into them. "Casual" meant minimal SUs, not too advanced settings and plot and one liners being okay, while "Advanced" meant proper background, detailed SUs and long, well written posts. Here, we mostly lean towards their Advanced definition, I'd say.

I believe I know the site as to which you are describing. But this "Casual" and "Advanced" means more, and somewhat different, to what you have described.

"Free" means "one-liners." This does not mean they always or can only write one liners. There is virtually no minimum for a valid post. RPers who don't care to develop plot, character, or setting (I'm not saying they don't do any of the listed items). It's pretty much IMing as a fictional character via forum. However, it also means there are no standards for grammar. It's also very fast-paced and live only as long as you are online at that particular time (this is not always the case). CS's (Character Sheets or the term I use to describe this site's "Sign-ups") are optional and tend not to be made. People will say "I want to join" in the Interest Check/Out-of-Character and then write in the In-Character.

"Casual" means "a paragraph." The minimum is a paragraph but most write more than that on a regular basis. Grammar is also noted, but not necessarily stressed. RPers work toward working through a story with their characters. It's not necessarily to the level of writing a novel between multiple people at this level, but it's much more involved and deeper than that of "Free." CS's are moderately detailed (I'm not indicating to length, since that is up to the GM and the RPer in question).

"Advanced" means "three paragraphs." The minimum is a paragraph of a mental reaction, then a physical reaction, then a mental reaction to that same character's physical reaction (or this is just how I would describe the minimum). Grammar is stressed, here. RPers work together with GMs to create a larger world (the good RPs, at least). They create species, magics, continents, cultures, sociologies, medicines, etc. This can occur in "Casual," but not nearly the same extent. CS's, here, can be at the level of "Casual" to entire biographies. I know on the site I believe you referenced, there are debates on what is necessary to include in a CS (which I won't get into here), which can affect how long a CS required by the GM might be.

But, overall, if we had these systems/tiers of RPs, then it would be difficult for Moderators to moderate and there would be too much variance in the definitions of these terms. Players will become offended and GM's will be alienated or victimized, unless properly moderated and terms definitively defined. Advanced will become scary and Casual will be over-saturated.

But it really all depends what we want this particular RPing section of the larger forum as a whole to be. I'm, pretty much, a strictly "Advanced" RPer (according to my definition above), and don't care to even have to skim through "lower tiered" RPs. I know that sounds elitist, but I'm just lazy. I'm also pretty strict with grammar, so it bugs me when I'm correcting your post rather than reading it (because there are that many errors).

 

[Iceshadow3317]

I understand the rule. I don't have a problem getting over 100 words, as it is very easy for me to think of words. However, some people like to react to what is thrown at them. Not plan stuff out. It can be somewhat annoying when you have to plan something. A novel and role play, although the same bases, are two totally different things. A role play is more like a play which obviously doesn't always have 100 words for every person.

I like the 100 word rule, and I do not mind it at all. But I think it would be nice to have a more casual role play area. It would help people learn how to role play better or just have fun. Some people take things like this way too seriously when nothing comes out of it other than to have fun.

I'll be honest, planning something, takes the fun out of things. Having to do joint posts I think is a major reason why RP's die.

Example: If you have four people making a joint post, everyone has to be able to work at certain times. And can sometimes lead to a large stalemate. Which also causes RP's to die.

 

[gimmepie]

I understand the rule. I don't have a problem getting over 100 words, as it is very easy for me to think of words. However, some people like to react to what is thrown at them. Not plan stuff out. It can be somewhat annoying when you have to plan something. A novel and role play, although the same bases, are two totally different things. A role play is more like a play which obviously doesn't always have 100 words for every person.

I like the 100 word rule, and I do not mind it at all. But I think it would be nice to have a more casual role play area. It would help people learn how to role play better or just have fun. Some people take things like this way too seriously when nothing comes out of it other than to have fun.

I'll be honest, planning something, takes the fun out of things. Having to do joint posts I think is a major reason why RP's die.

Example: If you have four people making a joint post, everyone has to be able to work at certain times. And can sometimes lead to a large stalemate. Which also causes RP's to die.

I would be okay with a single (preferably sticky) thread that allowed really short posts and limited development etc. Almost like an RP practice room. Heck I'd even write it if there was real demand and I was feeling creative lol

But I definitely don't want to start seeing a large number of roleplays that encourage that kind of thing (one-liners and the like, not necessarily short posts entirely). I want everyone to be able to enjoy the RPC but I also don't want to see my favourite forum dissolve into a pit of poorly-written one-liners.

 

[Nagi]

I'll be honest, planning something, takes the fun out of things. Having to do joint posts I think is a major reason why RP's die.

this is worrying to me. i'm currently running a relatively low-key roleplay that heavily relies on player cooperation, and thus a large number of JPs get written at every one time, basically. i don't really understand the link between the dreaded 'planning' and JPs though - is it because you need to be online at the same time to work on a post together? because i don't think that's true necessarily, as long as everyone adds to the post a bit in turns, it works fine, right?

i personally think a 100-word rule is more than reasonable, even for less experienced roleplayers. even this post already has 255 words, not including the quote. it shouldn't be difficult for people to write more than three sentences, and if you're just reacting to something, i'd suggest you make a JP...

to be honest i wouldn't even mind a serious/casual split, but then i'd even go as far to say that even the casual roleplays would require a word limit, just to prevent one-liners. if you do only wish to write like that, i for one think you're much better off in a chat. i should know, i've done chat-roleplaying for a number of years. but the reason i came here in the first place is because i got tired of that and needed more depth, so i'd be sad to see the quality deteriorate here.

for the single stickied thread that allows one-liners: isn't that kind of what Dreamland is now, except it doesn't allow new characters?

 

[gimmepie]

this is worrying to me. i'm currently running a relatively low-key roleplay that heavily relies on player cooperation, and thus a large number of JPs get written at every one time, basically. i don't really understand the link between the dreaded 'planning' and JPs though - is it because you need to be online at the same time to work on a post together? because i don't think that's true necessarily, as long as everyone adds to the post a bit in turns, it works fine, right?

i personally think a 100-word rule is more than reasonable, even for less experienced roleplayers. even this post already has 255 words, not including the quote. it shouldn't be difficult for people to write more than three sentences, and if you're just reacting to something, i'd suggest you make a JP...

to be honest i wouldn't even mind a serious/casual split, but then i'd even go as far to say that even the casual roleplays would require a word limit, just to prevent one-liners. if you do only wish to write like that, i for one think you're much better off in a chat. i should know, i've done chat-roleplaying for a number of years. but the reason i came here in the first place is because i got tired of that and needed more depth, so i'd be sad to see the quality deteriorate here.

for the single stickied thread that allows one-liners: isn't that kind of what Dreamland is now, except it doesn't allow new characters?

The idea has been broached a few times now to include a thread, much like dreamland, but geared towards new RPers who want to get their feet wet before diving head first into an in-depth RP.

Personally I don't care if it happens one way or the other since I won't have any reason to spend time in a thread like that. But I think if the demand is there it's something that people should look into.

 

[ElBurrito]

I understand the rule and why it's currently in place, but at the same time I don't fully understand why word count matters. Sure a single long post looks nicer than multiple short posts, but when the shorter posts are grouped together they form just as much of a story as a single long post. The only difference is the amount of posts it takes to develop the story.

That being said, I do still think having some kind of limit is reasonable, just not a specific number of words. At least a single three sentence paragraph would be reasonable, especially for times when characters are constantly interacting back and forth. A three sentence minimum would be enough for a short post to tell what a character is saying, what they are thinking, and what they are doing for that brief moment.

I also feel that maybe the length of the posts is something that should be decided by the GM. As I've read in this thread, some people are ok with short posts while other people prefer reading longer posts. I'm trying not to be one of those butthurt "well if you don't like it then why did you read it?" people, but if you don't like reading roleplays with constant short posts, then just stop reading and move on. Everybody has their own unique style of writing, and some people just need multiple small parts to piece their story together. Just because group A prefers long posts doesn't mean that group B shouldn't be able to do small posts. Like you said, some roleplays just work better with short posts and some work better with long posts. Letting the GM decide how long posts should be in their roleplay would be a better route to go as opposed to having a word count requirement for all roleplays.

 

[shatteredxfrost]

I understand the rule and why it's currently in place, but at the same time I don't fully understand why word count matters. Sure a single long post looks nicer than multiple short posts, but when the shorter posts are grouped together they form just as much of a story as a single long post. The only difference is the amount of posts it takes to develop the story.

That being said, I do still think having some kind of limit is reasonable, just not a specific number of words. At least a single three sentence paragraph would be reasonable, especially for times when characters are constantly interacting back and forth. A three sentence minimum would be enough for a short post to tell what a character is saying, what they are thinking, and what they are doing for that brief moment.

I also feel that maybe the length of the posts is something that should be decided by the GM. As I've read in this thread, some people are ok with short posts while other people prefer reading longer posts. I'm trying not to be one of those butthurt "well if you don't like it then why did you read it?" people, but if you don't like reading roleplays with constant short posts, then just stop reading and move on. Everybody has their own unique style of writing, and some people just need multiple small parts to piece their story together. Just because group A prefers long posts doesn't mean that group B shouldn't be able to do small posts. Like you said, some roleplays just work better with short posts and some work better with long posts. Letting the GM decide how long posts should be in their roleplay would be a better route to go as opposed to having a word count requirement for all roleplays.

My thoughts exactly. It really does seem a matter of preference.

 

[Gray-_-Hatred]

I understand the rule and why it's currently in place, but at the same time I don't fully understand why word count matters. Sure a single long post looks nicer than multiple short posts, but when the shorter posts are grouped together they form just as much of a story as a single long post. The only difference is the amount of posts it takes to develop the story.

That being said, I do still think having some kind of limit is reasonable, just not a specific number of words. At least a single three sentence paragraph would be reasonable, especially for times when characters are constantly interacting back and forth. A three sentence minimum would be enough for a short post to tell what a character is saying, what they are thinking, and what they are doing for that brief moment.

I also feel that maybe the length of the posts is something that should be decided by the GM. As I've read in this thread, some people are ok with short posts while other people prefer reading longer posts. I'm trying not to be one of those butthurt "well if you don't like it then why did you read it?" people, but if you don't like reading roleplays with constant short posts, then just stop reading and move on. Everybody has their own unique style of writing, and some people just need multiple small parts to piece their story together. Just because group A prefers long posts doesn't mean that group B shouldn't be able to do small posts. Like you said, some roleplays just work better with short posts and some work better with long posts. Letting the GM decide how long posts should be in their roleplay would be a better route to go as opposed to having a word count requirement for all roleplays.

I couldn't agree with you anymore.

 

[Groc]

I've recently been informed that I'm a repeat offender for breaking this rule. It appears that the more "Casual" back-and-forth thread I'm in is the cause of this. Usually, I don't have a problem writing long posts, but usually I'm posting a chapter of a story, not interacting with others. I fully support the rule, but I don't count my words when I post. I just coincidentally write enough. Maybe 100 words is a little optimistic? Maybe say 50, or 75 words.

To be honest, the "casual" thread is more stressful than the regular threads, since I feel pressured to write fast so I don't get skipped. This presents a problem of its own, since my circumstances don't make speedy typing easy. So I would support the notion of letting posts slightly under 100 words slide, if that is the general consensus.

 

[Sonata]

Is it really all that hard to get 100 words in a post? I don't plan out anything I do, I just let it come. Sometimes it's not a lot, sometimes I end up breaking it up into two or three posts. 100 words definitely is not that demanding. I would say that if you're within a few words of the minimum then that is acceptable, but 20 or 50 word posts just really....no. To me that's like if I went to the roundtable and made a post that was a couple of paragraphs and then someone came along and replied to me with a gif and nothing else.

I'm all for keeping the rule.

 

[moon]

Rest assured we don't jump in and redcard people as soon as we see a short post. Once in a while, 70 words maybe was necessary, especially if you're a GM and just wanted to add something. It's only when it's repeatedly done that we think of warning people.

Because, as Godzil mentioned, RPs with one liners can move too fast and be difficult to follow for all players. As long as everyone is okay with the pace, maybe it's no problem. But 100 words is a pretty good minimum guideline for making a post where something actually happens.

 

[shatteredxfrost]

100 words definitely isn't unreasonable. However, like Godzil mentioned, we're in a very fast paced roleplay right now and getting a word in can be hard sometimes. For that reason, I'll make a quick short post, it's not usually under 100, just so I can get my opinion across. When I get my character alone, I tend to write a lot more as there's no stress to post quickly.

Though the rule isn't bad at all, it's just jarring to get a warning when you just want your character to get a word in.

As ElBurrito said, people are on at different times and we're in different timezones, too. So we tend to write fast and post quickly to make the story move along before we all get back to our real lives - making joint posts in that time seems pointless at that stage as it takes longer.

 

[moon]

100 words definitely isn't unreasonable. However, like Godzil mentioned, we're in a very fast paced roleplay right now and getting a word in can be hard sometimes. For that reason, I'll make a quick short post, it's not usually under 100, just so I can get my opinion across. When I get my character alone, I tend to write a lot more as there's no stress to post quickly.

Though the rule isn't bad at all, it's just jarring to get a warning when you just want your character to get a word in.

As ElBurrito said, people are on at different times and we're in different timezones, too. So we tend to write fast and post quickly to make the story move along before we all get back to our real lives - making joint posts in that time seems pointless at that stage as it takes longer.

I see. If you are worried about not getting a word in though, how about setting a posting order? If you feel like you don't need to post when it's your turn, you simply state in the OOC thread that you skip.