Thesis's OT fic guide: "What not to include", Part One

[Scarlet Weather]

Hhm. I hate to ask something about your very first page, but I've been wanting to rewrite some pokemon games for a while now, and this little tidbit made me wary. It kind of seems contradictory to me, and I'm a little confused. ^^" You say it can be fun to read these fanfics, then you say "The OT story just isn't suited for this." The pokemon games are kind of like OT fanfics, right? I mean, you're a trainer that goes around beating things up and somehow saves the world... or am I just thinking too hard about all of this? ^^"""


I suppose I'm just wondering what you think, or what anyone thinks, really. I don't want to write something I really like and have everyone bored with it. I'm not going to have the same plot as the game, so maybe this question is just redundant.... Yet, I'm still curious. ^^"
Sorry to blabber on and on about that. I'd talk about your guide and what I think (but I agree with most of it, just to say), however, I have to go. I completely forgot about school tomorrow. I promise I'll review or whatever sometime soon if you want, kay? =D


PS Sorry if you see random code floating about. I have no idea what I'm doing. XD

To clarify: I'm talking about an OT fic where not only the basic concept but every single plot point is lifted verbatim from the games. I've only ever read one fanfic where that was the case that I liked, but said fanfic was actually not so much about the story as it was the thoughts of the game's hero- who was a silent protagonist in the fanfic as well. Not that they couldn't speak, but rather they didn't, and all their dialogue was internalized. It was something I'd never seen before and if I had the link or memory of where it could be found I'd show it to you as an example of total transcription done right.

However, OT stories with non-silent protagonists who are starting journies a la Ash Ketchum really need more to their plot then simply "follow the dotted line that the game writers laid out". I really don't think the OT genre is able to mindlessly follow the game's storyline without getting really boring really fast.

As for the games being "like an OT fanfic"... it's the other way around. OT fanfics are heavily inspired by the story of the game, so much so that many authors simply give the games a new hero and write from there. But that's so repetitive and mind-numbingly boring that unless the story is less about the events that occur and more about the internal thoughts of the main character, you're not going to have much success with it.

 

[The Ebon Blade]

this was funny. my favorite "Leave the guns. Take the Zubat". But as funny as it was I'm trying to see how it can help me in my Ranger fic... but most of it is about OT's.

 

[Shinningkit]

Ah, okay. That makes more sense now- Thank you. I am sorry to have asked, and I don't understand why I didn't see that in the first place. o.O Oh well, I still appreciate it. ^^

And do you have any recollection of where you found that fic? The one with the silent protagonist, I mean. I was just going to see if I could find it for myself, but it's alright if you can't or don't remember. ^^ I just had an idea for a silent protagonist, but instead my fiction had the character as a mute... sorta. Her voice was stolen by a Haunter, but I still thought it would be close enough. ^^''

Your guide has really helped, and I'm glad you decided to take the time and write it. It was particularly funny as well. It made me laugh along with my thinking. I basically agree with the guide as a whole, so I'm not going to nitpick at it.

I thank you again. =D Sorry to take your time. ^^ *offers cookie*

 

[yuki3056]

I want to be an author when I grow and I one day stumbled across fanfics and now I have read many different kinds (yes even lemons, while some are completely out of line some of them show a different side of pokemon and have plots and I even read one with very tasteful human on pokemon, I did not "enjoy" it if you know what I mean but it gave very intresting insights on the closeness of humans and pokemon, although this is viewed as the worst thing out there by some I think some of them have deeper meanings and the sex is just a symbol of a bond that can not be put into words. There is a line however that many cross and yes these should not be used. That was posted a little late I know but I felt like I needed to add my 2 cents worth lol.


As for the other things I read a very enjoyable OT fic that closely followed emerald and yet it varied in many ways. I can't really explain it and I do not remeber the title or author lol I will find it someday..

 

[Heart's Soul]

I think I should add that I avoid everything listed here, as something will happen later on with Neo.

This is the basic idea:

Neo saves pokemon, pokemon sleeps, wakes up, attacks Neo and steals his food.

 

[Rabbit]

The only thing in the Pokeverse more disturbing than SkittyonWailord action...

Pokemon and humans having a sexual attraction to each other.

Gahahaha. There's an Ash x Mew fic up here...my initial impulse was to leave a comment about bestiality. (Come on, tell me it's not the first thing that comes to mind.) It's a perfectly innocent fic, which makes it even worse. Apparently the author doesn't see a connection between "relationship" and "sex."

This is a fantastic guide to cliches everyone should be aware of. Actually, it kind of reminds me of TVTropes.org, especially the bolded titles. You haven't been hanging around that site, have you? It could easily be a coincidence, though, as they take their trope titles from the most popular examples ("by your powers combined", for instance.)

For those of you who haven't been, TV Tropes is a wiki on tropes, 'storytelling conventions,' complete with scores of examples on how they can be used, lampshaded, parodied, and subverted. Amazing stuff, and most of it applies to fanfic writing.

Anyway, I clicked on this guide while wondering why Journeyfics are such a popular, er, genre. By definition, they all follow the same format. Even avoiding the major cliches won't make it an excitingly original piece of writing. Every reader knows what's up: the trainer will recieve a starter, battle hundreds of random trainers, beat gyms, beat the Elite Four and become Champion. Wo-hoo. Not my idea of a good read. It's like watching someone else play through one of the video games. Why haven't people given up on writing these? There are so many other ways to write an OT. Your trainer doesn't have to be a newbie, and they don't have to dream of beating the League. They could just be an average citizen who uses Pokemon for protection, as part of their job, or for sport. The way people are stuck on this idea of preteens who go on Pokemon journeys, you'd think the Pokemon world was full of nothing else. Their economy must be run solely by PokeBall and Potion sales.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a guide like this is fantastic, but aspiring writers should be encouraged to diversify their efforts a little and avoid writing Journeyfics altogether. No matter how you coach them, they won't come up with anything refreshingly original.

Huh. I'm late, and risking a lot of accusations being thrown in my direction, but I must say this point mystifies me. How do you go from "Love can't stem from sexual desire" to "HumanxPokémon sex is invariably WRONG and PERVERTED", exactly? I mean, if you were just ranting about love arising from lust (or worse, rape) in general, fine, but that is a point completely unrelated to the species of the partners involved. Provided that Pokémon are in the story portrayed as sapient, I see no reason why romantic attraction should not be able to develop between a human and a Pokémon in just the same way as between two humans. In fact, you already seem to acknowledge Pokémon/human romance just fine. Why, precisely, should it then be invariably non-sexual just because one partner is a Pokémon? The point that there is more to love than sex has no bearing upon this; it is still a fact that romantic relationships have a very strong tendency to involve sex at some point or another, and I really don't see why this should automatically not apply if one of them is a Pokémon. "Most people aren't exactly into bestiality", no, but we're talking about a human who has already fallen in love with a Pokémon, and Pokémon are known to practice interspecies mating with other Pokémon. Besides which the very fact that the Pokémon are sapient changes things considerably from bestiality as we know it: we're talking about the Pokémon having actual romantic feelings and the ability to express them, and the communication of consent for sex is every bit as easy as between two humans. It's a lot more comparable to homosexuality than to actual bestiality, really: two mutually consenting, sapient adults with existing romantic feelings for one another, who would maybe need to be a bit creative with the precise mechanics of potential sexual intercourse, but are very much capable of it and would derive mutual pleasure from it. Why would they not have sex?

Yes, it squicks you, fine, but that doesn't mean it's automatically WRONG and PERVERTED and MUST NOT HAPPEN IN A STORY. Some people are squicked by homosexual sex, and that doesn't magically mean that homosexuals in stories shouldn't have even off-screen sex for fear of offending people. I'm all for providing appropriate warning if a story is going to include a sexual Pokémon/human relationship for the benefit of those who want to avoid it, but a guide like this should point out clichés, illogicalities and other things that have a sensible reason to be avoided altogether, not complain about your personal squicks.

And no, I have never written a sexual Pokémon/human relationship and have no particular interest in doing so. It just struck me as a very narrow-minded point.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I guess the issue is whether Pokemon are people or not. If they are, there isn't anything extremely wierd about them having relationships with humans. I would argue that Pokemon are essentially animals. First, most of them are based off of animals in appearance and behaviour, and they're used in battle the same way one would command a guard dog. The anime portrays them as sentient but in a cutesy talking animal fashion, while the games make little attempt at this. If Pokemon really have the status of people, why don't they have the same rights? Why can humans imprison them and control them? The very idea of commanding a Pokemon dehumanizes them. Finally, most Pokemon don't look human - even Machoke is significantly different from hômo* sapiens - all of which makes the situation resemble bestiality.

What I find interesting is how a lot of people replying to AC Coda X have agreed that there's a significant difference between romanctic and sexual attraction. Frankly, I can't see it. But that is probably way too off topic for this thread. :B Bleh heh heh.

* Did you know that this word is bleeped out by the filter?

 

[Bay]

I don't think you can just get rid of the "Journeyfic" genre altogether. I do agree that though that there should be more originality in the journeyfic. For instance, the story could start off with the character getting badges, but then a conflict comes and that pulls the trainer out of that route for sometime. Might not be the most original way to go through it, and yes there has been a few fics like that, but as long as the execution is right (like characters and pace), then I'll be fine with that.

I think the reason why journeyfics are popular is because some of the readers actually would like to read a story just about a trainer and their Pokemon going on a journey. Not everyone are into action and such. Some like reading easy going, feel good kind of stories, like how some people (like me) like watching slice of life anime.

 

[Venia Silente]

This is a fantastic guide to cliches everyone should be aware of. Actually, it kind of reminds me of TVTropes.org, especially the bolded titles.

...

For those of you who haven't been, TV Tropes is a wiki on tropes, 'storytelling conventions,' complete with scores of examples on how they can be used, lampshaded, parodied, and subverted. Amazing stuff, and most of it applies to fanfic writing.

You know what makes this even better?

Thesis AC Coda's guide is actually quoted at one of the fic tropes page. If I recall correclty, the quote is featured as one of the "header samples" at the "Fan Fiction" trope page. Could there be a better place?

I concur with The Ebon Blade W/R to "Leave the guns. Take the Zubat". I am actually trying to write my entire Team Rocket incluing so as to, as TVTropes would call it, "subvert the trope". I hope to actually do well with that.

What else can be covered in the guide? I actually would like to read more about possible PMD tropes. That's a subject not deeply covered in FF yet. Also I would like to read something about the technology clichés in the Pokémon World, in particular when it comes to the apparently so easily available megaships in the movies, or the Joy/Jenny Initiative.

 

[Giratina ♀]

Thesis[/s] AC Coda's guide is actually quoted at one of the fic tropes page. If I recall correclty, the quote is featured as one of the "header samples" at the "Fan Fiction" trope page. Could there be a better place?

Oh yeah.
I did that. x3

Come on, it really does fit!

And yes, some explainetions for other things would be nice, but this is an Original Trainer fic guide. If we wanted stuff about PMD's Mandatory Villainous Exploration Teams or Big Epic Scary Villain Airships, who would look in an OT guide? This guide has really covered just about everything that I can think of about OT fics and their... various problems.

 

[Heart's Soul]

I just realized that this thread was revived. Still, time to avoid everything so far on the list.

 

[ze_gobou]

I didn't find the link on the TV Tropes page, sorry. Is it still there ?

 

[JX Valentine]

I didn't find the link on the TV Tropes page, sorry. Is it still there ?

Alas, someone took it down. And replaced it with more propaganda about how fanfiction sucks.

To avoid derailing the topic with a long rant, I'm just going to say that whoever thinks fanfiction sucks fails to realize that a lot of modern original fiction sucks just as much. I mean, come on. Eragon? Seriously?

 

[Scarlet Weather]

Alas, someone took it down. And replaced it with more propaganda about how fanfiction sucks.

To avoid derailing the topic with a long rant, I'm just going to say that whoever thinks fanfiction sucks fails to realize that a lot of modern original fiction sucks just as much. I mean, come on. Eragon? Seriously?

And I didn't get to see it. >.<

If anyone can remember what was quoted, I would LOVE THEM FOREVER. Seriously.

And now for the more fun stuff.

He's back. And he's ready for more.

It's ANOTHER PART OF THE GUIDE. And we're so tired of the wait we're not even going to number it.​

Well, I'm back again. Blame the Yu-Gi-Oh fandom and Windows Live Messenger for my LONG absence this time. I've been crawling through dark caverns people. DARK FREAKING CAVERNS. And I've come out smelly, dirty, and prepared to dish out some Farla-level pain on the world of bad and cliched fanfiction. And I'll begin by pulling you down as well. You know, you'd think in all the time I've had to write this guide, I'd have covered this cliche by now. But I haven't. So without further ado, I give you...

Kingdom Hearts was right! The worlds ARE connected!

And you crossed over to prove it. That's right, this is talking about all those wonderful fanfics where somebody from the "real world" crosses over through a dimensional portal to the "Pokemon world" via one of the following: Mysterious portal in space, experiment gone wrong, magical ritual of death, or Ye Olde Legendary Power. Why did they come over? Er... three possible choices. One, they intended to cross to a new world and just happened to end up in the Pokemon world. Two, they just... did. Because. And three, they're the Chosen One from Another World destined to Save Both Worlds or else Die Trying. They're often young, often inexperienced, and always ultimately end up Pokemon trainers. And just what's wrong with this particular cliche?

Well... it's not so much the cliche as how it's used. I have never once seen a fanfic with a trainer from another world where said trainer did ANYTHING that somehow justified giving him this random mark of specialness. The fact that the character is from another world is almost an afterthought, what's really important is that they are Special and Chosen and Destined to Do Something for the Good of Both Worlds. And it can be REALLY annoying. Because nothing's more annoying than a pointless Stu being given another mark of Special. So if you're going to to this cliche, go ahead and subvert the norm as much as possible. It's rarely worth the trouble of justifying the otherwordly origins of your character.

Weakest to Strongest

The unsung law of Pokemon. If a trainer captures a weak and sickly Pokemon, given proper training and several trainer-Pokemon bonding scenes, it will inevitably toughen up and become a key member- nay, even the ace- of that trainer's team. It can be a sweet, lovable story when it's done well, and with Pokemon like Eevee evolving based on happiness in some cases it can make sense.

But let's be realistic people. Sometimes, a weak Pokemon is a weak Pokemon. It'll never be as strong as the other members of the team. Hey, it may even be useless. But that doesn't mean it can't be involved in the plot. Nobody ever wants to give their trainer a weak Pokmon- or more specifically, a Pokemon that's no good in battles. So do the right thing. Give all those poor weak Pokemon that never become aces a home in your fanfics. Also, I'm collecting donations for those Pokemon to build a sanctuary for them. Contributions are appreciated.

Strong as the Plot

A Pokemon's strength is determined by what the author needs it to do. If the story calls for the Pokemon to be strong enough to take down the gym leader's ace in a head-to-head fight, so be it. If the story later requires that same Pokemon to lose out to some hotshot trainer who's wet behind the ears, well, so be it. A trainer whose strategies are brilliant one moment may need to become an idiot next, depending on what the plot requires.

When executed by a good author, this cliche can result in a suspenseful, thrilling story where you can never tell who's going to win, but if the author's incompetent, it just looks like they didn't bother to make things consistent. If you're unsure of your abilities, err on the side of consistency- if you say a Pokemon is strong enough to do something, be sure it remains strong enough to do it.

 

[I Laugh at your Misfortune!]

Weakest to Strongest

The unsung law of Pokemon. If a trainer captures a weak and sickly Pokemon, given proper training and several trainer-Pokemon bonding scenes, it will inevitably toughen up and become a key member- nay, even the ace- of that trainer's team. It can be a sweet, lovable story when it's done well, and with Pokemon like Eevee evolving based on happiness in some cases it can make sense.

But let's be realistic people. Sometimes, a weak Pokemon is a weak Pokemon. It'll never be as strong as the other members of the team. Hey, it may even be useless. But that doesn't mean it can't be involved in the plot. Nobody ever wants to give their trainer a weak Pokmon- or more specifically, a Pokemon that's no good in battles. So do the right thing. Give all those poor weak Pokemon that never become aces a home in your fanfics. Also, I'm collecting donations for those Pokemon to build a sanctuary for them. Contributions are appreciated.

Lol, never mind fanfiction, this happens in all aspects of the canon/fanon. Have you seen the anime?

 

[Feign]

Very nice guide! :) I'm in the middle of still planning my fic, and am guilty of a bit of the beginning cliches, which I am trying to iron out, but I find that the rest of the story's idea, is at least unique, as it won't follow the usual gym trainer thingy.

And like you said, encountering a legendary pokemon is pretty redundant. Which made me think, it can still be quite interesting if my character instead, came across a ton of hummm I don't know, Magmars or something (or at least making the location rare).

And yes... pokemorphs and beastiality scare me too.

 

[Venia Silente]

On new update and removed quote

As usual, I love to see this guide stays active. Strong as the Plot is officially the second most favourite section to me (after "Leave the Guns. Take the Zubat.". Seriously, that section is, like, the Omega of OT fics). It is short, concise, and well targeted.

With regards to "Strong as the Plot" itself, there's not much I would be able to add, except that remind potential writers plus myself that, unlike what happens in short TV shows (where this all too common), written media allows for a different, wider range of paces, much less restricted, so "OMG! I suddenly lost against a L8 Wurmple!" shouldn't be of need to establish the new character's antagonist credentials. Case in point: Ash's Pikachu for every new season, the animes of Captain Tsubasa and other sport-based series.

Oh and it's good to see an all too different kind of Do Not Includes: I had never ever thought of "World Are Connected" fics. A good thing the subject was brought up.

And, now, for AC Coda X's "LOVE THEM FOREVER. Seriously." [sic]:D -- What was quoted at TVTropes's "Fan Fiction" entry was the bolded section of this paragraph:

"But my OT fic is different!" I hear you exclaim. "Can't you see how different it is from the others? My fanfic has a girl as the main character!" Or, "My fic has an evil team that isn't necessarily evil!" Or "Mine ends with the main character not becoming League Champion, or saving the world!" I have a newsflash for all of you: This is the internet. There are literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, writing Pokemon fanfics. Chances are that at least one of those hundreds of thousands or millions of people is not only writing a Pokemon fanfic with an extremely similar plot to yours, but unless you have evidence that proves otherwise there is a very good chance that this person is doing a better job of it than you are. Even in fics that are large departures from the standard OT fic, there's a surprising amount of authors writing stories with almost paralell plots. Of course, the stories aren't exactly the same. The writing styles and characters of both authors usually differ ...

And it was credited something among the lines of:

Thesis' Original Trainer Fic Guide, Poke-Community forums

(yes, with that spelling for "PokéCommunity")

Why was the quote deleted?

reason: Don't need three quotes
27/Mar/09 at 10:49 PM by Andrew 72.128.12.23

This seems to have taken place during a series of (detrimental, as pointed out by Xanthine) edits, triggered by a discussion on the subject of SelfInsertFic and Lemon less than one month ago... :'(