Anime/Manga uguu?

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Pokestick said:
The English writing is divine, and everyone involved clearly had a blast during every second of it. It just ends up fitting flawlessly.

Harsh language, though I don't know why you'd expect otherwise:
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I could almost host a watching party for my non-anime watching friends that dub is so good and so accessible.
 
When I first started watching it a long time ago, I didn't even know that it was originally in Japanese.

And lol, to all the people in "sub masterrace," there's always the superior raw race.
 
Akiba said:
And lol, to all the people in "sub masterrace," there's always the superior raw race.
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See, that's the thing. Regardless of whether you watch Dub or Sub, you're always, ALWAYS at the mercy of the translation. If you don't like the English voices, that's one thing, but anyone who thinks that subs inherently offer a "purer" or "more faithful" experience...no. They don't. They're just as susceptible to changes as dubs.

If you want a truly "pure" or "faithful experience", raw's the way to go.
 
I don't watch anything outside of its native language, period. The staff at all levels is working with the expectation of their native language; the writers write for it, the audio director directs with that expectation, the creator can point out where he or she wants something voiced a certain way or with a certain inflection, etc.

I don't care if the creator of Bebop is such a westaboo that he likes the English dub better, he didn't oversee the execution of that one nor did the rest of the staff writing the show (and, as George Lucas has proved, no good series is solely the creation of one person). I always go with the native language. I even play video games undubbed whenever possible.

This has nothing to do with Japanese. I wouldn't watch a French or German series or movie dubbed into English if I had a choice, either. It's about maintaining the original creative vision.
 
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twocows said:
I don't watch anything outside of its native language, period. The staff at all levels is working with the expectation of their native language; the writers write for it, the audio director directs with that expectation, the creator can point out where he or she wants something voiced a certain way or with a certain inflection, etc.

I don't care if the creator of Bebop is such a westaboo that he likes the English dub better, he didn't oversee the execution of that one nor did the rest of the staff writing the show (and, as George Lucas has proved, no good series is solely the creation of one person). I always go with the native language. I even play video games undubbed whenever possible.

This has nothing to do with Japanese. I wouldn't watch a French or German series or movie dubbed into English if I had a choice, either. It's about maintaining the original creative vision.
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There's still the writing, though. Because that's what the audio's based on (hell, it's what the audio is, and if you play a game or watch a show with subs or english-translated dialogue, unless you can actually understand what's being said or go raw, the "original creative vision" is lost on you. Sure, you can appreciate how things are said, but you can do the same with English. Hell, that's half the reason I watch dubs, to see the writing choices they've made, how they're executed, and how they attempt to tailor what they said, both in writing and in audio, to match what the original audio attempted to do for its audience.

Because, in the case of undubs, the script is still written for the dub, and in the case of subs you're still getting a translated script that in no way implies that it's being done faithfully. Plus, in the case of subs, unless they're done by a company or a studio, they'll be done by hobbyists who won't be able to contact the writers or the original production studio(s) for suggestions and checks. So really, unless you're going raw (or if you just plain understand what's being said), I'm not seeing how you even take advantage of the original writing.
 
machomuu said:
See, that's the thing. Regardless of whether you watch Dub or Sub, you're always, ALWAYS at the mercy of the translation. If you don't like the English voices, that's one thing, but anyone who thinks that subs inherently offer a "purer" or "more faithful" experience...no. They don't. They're just as susceptible to changes as dubs.

If you want a truly "pure" or "faithful experience", raw's the way to go.
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I agree with you. And that's a great point.
Usually there's like a sub-culture that claims that dubs are worse than subs. That is completely false! Yes, there are some dubs that censor stuff, and do shitty stuff, but it's up to the watcher to decide which version they should watch.

I prefer Subs, I usually suggest subs, but in the first place I prefer Japanese, and also I am familiar with many expressions and sometimes I don't even need to read subs. For me watching a show in Japanese with subs it's like a "semi-RAW" experience, which is why I prefer the native language.

Regardless of that, watching a dub doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, that concept should be eradicated!
 
machomuu said:
There's still the writing, though. Because that's what the audio's based on (hell, it's what the audio is, and if you play a game or watch a show with subs or english-translated dialogue, unless you can actually understand what's being said or go raw, the "original creative vision" is lost on you. Sure, you can appreciate how things are said, but you can do the same with English. Hell, that's half the reason I watch dubs, to see the writing choices they've made, how they're executed, and how they attempt to tailor what they said, both in writing and in audio, to match what the original audio attempted to do for its audience.

Because, in the case of undubs, the script is still written for the dub, and in the case of subs you're still getting a translated script that in no way implies that it's being done faithfully. Plus, in the case of subs, unless they're done by a company or a studio, they'll be done by hobbyists who won't be able to contact the writers or the original production studio(s) for suggestions and checks. So really, unless you're going raw (or if you just plain understand what's being said), I'm not seeing how you even take advantage of the original writing.
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The audio isn't just the script. If it was, a text-to-voice system would be sufficient. Inflection, timing, etc. How and when something is said can be pretty important and these things can add a lot to the artistry and execution. These things are often lost or at least changed in the localization process. The point is that I want to experience how it was meant to sound. I want the experience to be as close to the original as possible.

Also, a lot of fansubs (not all) tend to be light on localization, heavy on literal translation (with notes explaining context when deemed necessary). I prefer that approach for basically the same reasons, especially since over time, you tend to learn more and more of the context and so localization becomes unnecessary and undesirable.
 
You tend to see a difference in quality of direction and voice acting between subbed and dubbed anime. Often to the dub's detriment, though of course, as shown above, not always.
You've got clearly not as motivated or contextually knowledgeable people working the project, you've got different character's dialogue being recorded separately, often losing chemistry between characters in any given conversation, you've got actors butchering names and terms (sometimes inconsistently between different actors on the same project). There are dubs that have the budget, skill and motivation to produce something truly beyond the original source, but then there are so many that don't.

I've watched subbed (American) content from a young age, and when it comes down to it I'm simply more used to anime characters speaking Japanese with the typical seiyuu voices. In the same manner, I imagine many people are more used to having all their foreign programmes come to them dubbed, and grew up watching anime in English. Then I can definitely imagine a difference in what's perceived as natural.
 
Y'know I don't even know what brought me into the "sub master race" in the first place lol.

All I know is that English dubs are better than over here. I just watched an episode of Naruto the other day and the lip sync is already much better than the last time I watched an anime airing on a local TV channel, but they're still monotonous.

The only 2 shows I could watch in dubs are Digimon & PSG. At this point I'm already too used with the Japanese seiyuus to even consider watching dubs anymore haha.
 
Out of curiosity, is there any episode of Digimon dubbed in Indonesian? I would pay to watch that lol
 
twocows said:
The audio isn't just the script. If it was, a text-to-voice system would be sufficient. Inflection, timing, etc. How and when something is said can be pretty important and these things can add a lot to the artistry and execution. These things are often lost or at least changed in the localization process. The point is that I want to experience how it was meant to sound. I want the experience to be as close to the original as possible.

Also, a lot of fansubs (not all) tend to be light on localization, heavy on literal translation (with notes explaining context when deemed necessary). I prefer that approach for basically the same reasons, especially since over time, you tend to learn more and more of the context and so localization becomes unnecessary and undesirable.
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I guess it's simply different strokes, then.

I'm very much a fan of the writing process and the execution, which is why I enjoy subs and dubs equally. I'm no particular stranger to either of the two, though it'd be impossible for me to say I've watched as many subs as I have dubs.

There are various cons to each. With subs there's having to look down to see the subs (not always a problem, especially if you're watching on a computer or the subbers are courteous enough not to drop paragraph bombs on you) and subbers can get super liberal when trying to match the words to the mood (My favorite examples include "Tits McGee" and "What the shit", the latter translating "Nandayo"). With dubs there's a smaller pool of voice actors and Bryce Papenbrook exists. They each have their problems, but for me it's also in their specific charms that I can gravitate towards one or the other.

For instance, I couldn't watch Steins;Gate in English because Okabe's laugh and his overall voice don't match his personality as much, Mayuuri can't "Tuturu", and Makise's a cynical asshole. But on the flipside, they managed to make a joke where Okabe speaks English to a guy equally as funny in English- though in the case of the former it's because of Okabe and in the latter it's because of the response.

Then there're shows like Cowboy Bebop where the Westernisms get me in English, Yu Yu Hakusho where the dub does a much better job of portraying the main character than the sub/original does (Excel Saga's first Excel does this, too), and B Gata H Kei, where the euphemisms are colorfully delightful.

But in gaming and anime, I've always been huge on examining the various parts (art, animation, writing, music, etc) of how a production is made, so I can certainly respect where you're coming from and, hell, I don't completely disagree with you. I'm not a purist by any sense but I'd be lying if I wasn't interested in the same thing. It's just that I'm big on the adaptation process so it's just something else for me to enjoy in dubs (though, again, I hold them in the same regard as subs, albeit for various different reasons). Then there are older dubs like Those Who Hunt Elves which is so liberal (though less liberal than, say, Pokemon or Samurai Pizza Cats) that it's far more enjoyable than the original. It's the variety of the various dubs, subs, voices, and overall writing choices that I just love about Japanese games and anime. It's fun.

Similarly, I don't particularly have anything against those who don't like subs- I can understand the reasons for such and, generally I don't mind, but these ideas that all dubs are bad or that they betray the original meaning of the work, those bother me because the former...well, if you think that I'd imagine you just had a bad first impression, since the idea that all dubs (or even most) are bad is pretty obtuse. In the case of the latter, well, I've already spoken on that twice on this page, and I honestly don't get where the notion comes from except for, possibly, older anime where dubbers could get as literal as they liked. Altogether, though, these notions just seem dated and inaccurate. Like what you like, but don't rag on something you haven't actually experienced.
 
donavannj said:
Even the widely critically acclaimed Bebop dub that even the creator himself said was a better fit for the series than the Japanese dub?
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Should have added that was my opinion of English Dubs, I just don't like them, even if the guy who created the anime says the English Dub is better than the Japanese I can still not like the English and prefer the Japanese. I need someone to agree with me that Jap Dub is better :X
 
The popularity of that one always seemed crazy to me due to the way that Adventure Time's dialogue works. They bend and twist the language so much that is seems like translating it and it still being enjoyable for what it is, would be more like an obstacle course than a simple challenge.

I love that the trailer's so theatric, though. And Lumpy Space Princess. I do have to wonder if all of the advertising for the show in Japan presents it in that light. I might give it a look.
 
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