Vatican condemns plastic surgery, 'an aggression against women'

[Her]

link

A new Vatican document has condemned cosmetic surgery, calling it an "aggression" against women.

The document says that cosmetic surgery "amputate the expressive possibilities of the human face, which are so connected to empathic abilities".

It goes on to question whether cosmetic surgery is detrimental to a woman's self-acceptance, saying that it "can be aggressive toward the feminine identity, showing a refusal of the body".

The document was created as a discussion guide for the Vatican's upcoming Plenary Assembly titled Women's Cultures: Equality and Difference, Catholic news website Crux reports.

The assembly will be held by the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Culture on February 4-7.

Its website states that it will explore issues including "generativity, rights, poor and invisible women, women's spirituality, equality and reciprocity, power and service, insights and vision, biology, and women in the church". The assembly will address domestic violence.

Despite the assembly being organised and hosted by a male cardinal, the discussion guide was prepared by a panel of female consultants.

According to Crux, some of the discussion questions in the paper include "Why are women killed by a husband, fiancé, partner or ex-partner after years of life together?" and "Why, with their great presence, have women had so little impact on the church's structures?"

Catholic women across the world are being encouraged to participate in the assembly's discussion using the hashtag #lifeofwomen.

link to Crux

The text suggests that elective plastic surgery may reflect the stress many women feel about their bodies, which sometimes result in "pathologies" such as eating disorders, depression, and dysmorphic disorders.

The skeptical note on plastic surgery is part of an analysis of challenges facing women today, both in society and in the Church, prepared by a panel of female consultants to the Vatican's Pontifical Council for Culture.

The document is intended to serve as a discussion guide for the council's upcoming Feb. 4-7 plenary assembly, which will be devoted to women's issues. The council is led by Italian Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi.

The document concedes that despite abundant rhetoric on the importance of women, to date they have largely been excluded from leadership roles in the Church.

The document is intended to serve as a discussion guide for the council's upcoming Feb. 4-7 plenary assembly, which will be devoted to women's issues.

Although the comment on plastic surgery is but a footnote in the analysis being put forward to the Vatican in less than a week, it's certainly a newsworthy one, nonetheless.

What do you think about all this?

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

I think it's a good move. Plastic surgery is honestly one of the most superfluous things I've seen happen with women, and if you want to look good there's, uh... taking care of yourself? Plus if you do that you'll have a lot more self-esteem to go with your good looks, since you earned them.

I doubt the Church would be against extreme cases involving injury warranting plastic surgery, though. That wouldn't make any sense.

 

[Tek]

I doubt the Church would be against extreme cases involving injury warranting plastic surgery, though. That wouldn't make any sense.

I think you're right there. The Vatican's statement are addressing cultural and personal issues that relate to plastic surgery, more than the medical procedure.


The wording of the first part of that quote gives the impression that they do oppose surgical alterations to the human face for purely cosmetic reasons. I'm not certain whether I agree with that stance.


I do think that modern society focuses on physical phenomena to the neglect of interior experience. I'm glad to see a major institution turn its attention more towards the depth of humans and less towards the surfaces. I hope to see these discussions generate some positive change. Maybe I can even generate some myself.

 

[Kanzler]

I think a more appropriate term that the public hasn't gotten on with yet is "cosmetic surgery". It's exactly what it says on the box and I'm not really sure how a more obscure and general term became popular.

I don't really believe in cosmetic surgery. I relate it to retail therapy. We do it because we can, but it doesn't mean it's a virtuous act. I feel that it stems from consumerism and the attitude that you can just replace things you don't like.

 

[Tek]

I think a more appropriate term that the public hasn't gotten on with yet is "cosmetic surgery". It's exactly what it says on the box and I'm not really sure how a more obscure and general term became popular.

I don't really believe in cosmetic surgery. I relate it to retail therapy. We do it because we can, but it doesn't mean it's a virtuous act. I feel that it stems from consumerism and the attitude that you can just replace things you don't like.

Hmm yes I think that is a more descriptive term. As a general issue, there's so much information available that it can be difficult to get into the specifics of things.

As another aside, I recall an NPR report about how people deal with a bad economic situation. People with few resources tended to do more with less in order to feel secure, while people with significant resources needed to obtain more resources to get the same sense of security. I feel that this discussion relates to this basic difference in attitude.

 

[twocows]

I find it absolutely absurd. Physical appearance isn't that important and if you want to change it, I see no problem with going under the knife to do so. People put far too much weight on what they look like.

 

[Nah]

I find it absolutely absurd. Physical appearance isn't that important and if you want to change it, I see no problem with going under the knife to do so. People put far too much weight on what they look like.

The ironic thing about that statement is that (in some cases) it's because people put too much weight on what they look like that they get plastic surgery in the first place.

 

[Alice]

I don't get this personally. The problem isn't plastic surgery, it's how our society tells people they should look. First we show people this impossible version of beauty, tell them that this is what they should want, and then tell them that they're wrong for trying to fit that image. Condemning plastic surgery is going about this completely backwards.

 

[ANARCHit3cht]

I find it absolutely absurd. Physical appearance isn't that important and if you want to change it, I see no problem with going under the knife to do so. People put far too much weight on what they look like.

But if it isn't important, why do you have to change it?

 

[twocows]

The ironic thing about that statement is that (in some cases) it's because people put too much weight on what they look like that they get plastic surgery in the first place.

But if it isn't important, why do you have to change it?

In some cases. I'm talking from an absolute perspective, not from a personal perspective. It's not really that important because it really has no bearing on the kind of person you are, but it might still matter to those people a lot. But it's just appearance. If it matters to them, I see no reason not to let them change it. Some people want to look good. I don't think it's a big deal to let them choose the method to get there.

 

[CoffeeDrink]

I think the Vatican is as dumb as it has been for. . . as long as I can remember. Men get surgery as well. Sure, some people are pressured into it but no one I've heard of is held down and cut up forcefully. An 'aggression against women'? Are you kidding me? Look at Mickey Rourke! They cut his face but good. Needless to say, the Vatican should have instead taking a less stupid stance by saying: "Plastic surgery is against God's beauty" and as stupid as it sounds that would make more sense. Silly Vatican, why are you so adorably reprehensible?

 

[Sylphiel]

I'm still trying to figure out how they try to lump plastic surgery into the same category as freaking domestic violence. I mean yes, I read their reasoning, but it honestly seems like such a drastic leap from one to the other. Almost like they planned their meeting, and then someone with a beef against the surgery decided to try to shoehorn it in.

And while something like this seems valid:

The text suggests that elective plastic surgery may reflect the stress many women feel about their bodies, which sometimes result in "pathologies" such as eating disorders, depression, and dysmorphic disorders.

Even then, wanting the surgery is the result of such disorders, so railing against that is very much going after the symptom and not the underlying cause. There are other ways to help bring about positive body images, and I don't think condemning a surgery made by choice is the right way to go about that. Not at all.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Hmm yes I think that is a more descriptive term. As a general issue, there's so much information available that it can be difficult to get into the specifics of things.

As another aside, I recall an NPR report about how people deal with a bad economic situation. People with few resources tended to do more with less in order to feel secure, while people with significant resources needed to obtain more resources to get the same sense of security. I feel that this discussion relates to this basic difference in attitude.

Hmm, what that NPR report you mentioned said seems to make sense when one considers the poor tend to rate their lives as being happier than the rich usually do (the stress of wanting more wealth would get in the way of enjoying happiness) in polls and such.

I think the church attacking plastic surgery is similar to how the Pope has been attacking consumerism, both stem from the desire for more stuff and to be viewed in a positive light by others (even though it may lead to sin and destruction of one's own body,mind, etc.).

 

[Universe]

i tend to have a shaky opinion on cosmetic surgery in general.

im not exactly against the points delivered by the Vatican document, it's just that i personally feel people should be allowed to do what they want with their own bodies without judgement. if they wanna rearrange their face to resemble a Picasso painting, then by all means!

though in that same breath i also feel that cosmetic surgery (particularly in the face) may make the dysphoria worse. it's why women get addicted to doing these surgeries, i feel. because now they changed a part of the face they've been looking at in the mirror their whole life and it sticks out like a sore thumb to them as well as anyone else who knows them. so then they have to make everything else different in order to not focus on the singular change - to feel "better suited" for their previous surgery maybe.

either way it just seems like a mess.

changing something you've known intimately your entire life in a permanent way is a very big step and not to mention risky. but despite that i don't think it's right for anyone to commentate on such an issue in such a way. they're basically outright denying people the right to feel comfortable in their own skin and calling people who went under the knife "not human" because of their apparent disconnection from empathy. if you're against changing the way you look, then that's how you roll. but not everyone rolls in the same direction and it's important to respect that.

edit: oh and feminine identity is different from person to person. some feel they have more of a feminine identity after cosmetic surgery. that's important to keep in mind too.

edit2: i just realized that they only pointed out feminine identities in the cosmetic surgery department. can you not.

 

[Psychic]

I don't have a very strong stance on cosmetic surgery. As long as you don't go overboard and are safe about it, I don't see a problem with it.

Even then, wanting the surgery is the result of such disorders, so railing against that is very much going after the symptom and not the underlying cause. There are other ways to help bring about positive body images, and I don't think condemning a surgery made by choice is the right way to go about that. Not at all.

My thoughts exactly. I think it's great if the Pope wants to tackle this issue, but you need to examine the cause, not the symptom. The culture is causing people to have unhealthy beauty standards - cosmetic surgery is just one way of achieving those standards. Demonizing the service isn't going to change anything.

I think it's a good move. Plastic surgery is honestly one of the most superfluous things I've seen happen with women, and if you want to look good there's, uh... taking care of yourself? Plus if you do that you'll have a lot more self-esteem to go with your good looks, since you earned them.

It's not that simple. Merely "taking care of yourself" properly will never have the same effects as cosmetic surgery. Sometimes, people are suffering from body dysmorphic disorder, and need something more extreme to help.

~Psychic

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

It's not that simple. Merely "taking care of yourself" properly will never have the same effects as cosmetic surgery. Sometimes, people are suffering from body dysmorphic disorder, and need something more extreme to help.

I know, some people are born ugly. I'm not against them getting help either. See breast cancer amputee argument.