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Virtual Pornography

Ah, porn, what better way to start a debate.

My question to you is this, should illegal things like rape or pedophilia still be illegal in virtual pornography where nobody is actually being harmed? Would legalising this encourage people to commit crimes? Or would it provide people a legal outlet for their desires and reduce the number of crimes being committed?

Discuss anything relevant.



SEE NATHAN I CAN DO IT TOO!
 
I guess I'm going to be that guy then. I think that virtual porn depicting the otherwise illegal should be legalised. I personally feel that it is unfair to automatically assume the people who have these desires are automatically going to commit crimes and I think those that don't deserve access to a harmless outlet for their desires.
 
I guess I'm going to be that guy then. I think that virtual porn depicting the otherwise illegal should be legalised. I personally feel that it is unfair to automatically assume the people who have these desires are automatically going to commit crimes and I think those that don't deserve access to a harmless outlet for their desires.

I need some clarification: are you defending kiddie porn because it reduces a pedo's chances of actually going out and molesting a kid? Or am I misunderstanding?
 
I need some clarification: are you defending kiddie porn because it reduces a pedo's chances of actually going out and molesting a kid? Or am I misunderstanding?

I think it is important to realise that there's a distinction between pedophiles and child molesters. Being attracted to children might not be the healthiest of things, but that doesn't mean you're actually going to go out and harm a child.

I think that virtual (so animated) pornography that does not actually harm anyone, is a good way to let people who have these attractions a safe outlet for them that won't hurt anyone. I do also think that it could potentially lesson a person's desire to go out and do something bad, but I don't think I possess enough knowledge on the subject to say anything for certain.
 
As far as crime goes, I'm not so sure legal virtual child porn is going to cut back on molestation. I did a little research and found that one in five girls and one in 20 boys are victims of child sexual abuse. How many of the molesters are you willing to bet probably had some kiddie porn, too?
 
I think legalising such repulsive things will only encourage such behaviour rather than siphon it away from society. To legalise this would be indirectly giving the green light to such behaviours, which are by no means acceptable.
 
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I would be afraid that giving these people a virtual outlet will only make them lust more for the "real thing." It's a nice thought, to treat these people and their desires as human, by giving them an outlet where nobody gets hurt. But pedophilia, rape and other illicit sex hurt people by nature. There is a good reason for it to be illegal. Rather than give these people an outlet, I would rather put effort towards treating these people as mental patients and help them forget their urges.

Your title is a little misleading, though. Are you talking about holographic porn? Or Virtual Reality porn? So long as it's not rooted in extreme immorality, I think it's alright. Rape and pedophilia I don't condone. But otherwise it's just another innovation for masturbation. That, to me, is fine.
 
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I would be afraid that giving these people a virtual outlet will only make them lust more for the "real thing." It's a nice thought, to treat these people and their desires as human, by giving them an outlet where nobody gets hurt. But pedophilia, rape and other illicit sex hurt people by nature. There is a good reason for it to be illegal. Rather than give these people an outlet, I would rather put effort towards treating these people as mental patients and help them forget their urges.

Your title is a little misleading, though. Are you talking about holographic porn? Or Virtual Reality porn? So long as it's not rooted in extreme immorality, I think it's alright. Rape and pedophilia I don't condone. But otherwise it's just another innovation for masturbation. That, to me, is fine.

Virtual meaning not real, animated etc.
 
I think legalising such repulsive things will only encourage such behaviour rather than siphon it away from society. To legalise this would be indirectly giving the green light to such behaviours, which are by no means acceptable.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't think someone that would seriously contemplate commiting a crime like this is going to be deterrred if this kind of porn existed or not. It's something within that person.
 
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I can get behind the argument that virtual child porn would make people lust more for the real thing, animated or not. What's the point of an advertisement? To make you want what they're selling. So, McDonald's puts a close-up image of one of their shitburgers to make you visualize yourself eating it.

People who watch porn obviously have an interest in sex. They imagine themselves having sex when they watch it. That's how it works, and that's why it's so popular.
 
I'm pretty lenient about sex, so I would say that when it comes to virtual pornography, almost anything should go. I mean, we allow these horrid acts of violence and bloodshed to be played in video games, and I find that to be far more repulsive and reprehensible. That double standard really isn't something I can get behind, to be honest. Masturbation is just about pleasing yourself, and releasing your natural urges. Regardless of what you masturbate to.

Besides, it's not really something you can police anyway. Even if you make it illegal, it WILL happen. There's no getting around it. People have these urges, and they will create this content. They are powerful, and difficult to resist. If you don't have these fetishes, then of course it's difficult to understand. But think about it like this: What if someone told you that say... liking breasts was a morally horrible and reprehensible thing? And they tried to remove all material of breasts that you could masturbate to? All that pressure would bunch up within you, and you'd be angry. (Particularly if you were a very sexual person. Some people have higher sex drives than others, and this is something that also needs to be considered) Why are these people denying you of what pleases you? Because they think it's immoral? People can't control what they're aroused by. Why condemn them and deny them relief when they didn't choose for this to happen? Nobody wants to be the odd one out in society or ostracized.

In general, I just don't like people trying to force their morality on others. As I said in another thread, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, you should have as much freedom as possible.
 
Punishing crimethink, I see.

In the U.S., pornography in itself is not unlawful at the federal levels, but, let's say, if you're caught with cartoon pornography with drawn depictions of sexually suggestive children, you're typically in violation of state obscenity laws, which generally are all in line with the Miller test from some '70s Supreme Court case: the federal level of determining whether or not an expression can be labeled as obscene. The specifics in those state statutes on obscenity differ from state to state, but quite typically they don't want you possessing anything that is or looks indistinguishable from a minor and is portrayed in a sufficient enough sexually suggestive manner. The argument against obscenity in lower courts follows the Miller test: does it have any artistic, literary, scientific, or political value, can the average person today find the work altogether sexually suggestive, and does it just outright, blatantly describe sexual conduct as per specific state obscenity laws (is it "patently offensive"). All of the criteria must be met for it to be obscene and therefore illegal.

You can write or draw some dreamy, suggestive things and they could be perfectly legal in your state, over here in the U.S. I could write about a petit(e) young adult who "just turned" 18 years old, described to have youthful features, a childish voice, an alluring naivete of the unfortunate ways of the world, and an affinity for things others would describe as innocent and immature. And that would get a number of people's rocks off. That's legal to write, because it is not patently offensive, you just personally decided to relate this character as childish, despite being a legal adult. If I can legally have sex with an 18-year-old who just finished some late onset puberty and acts cutesy innocent, I can write about it, too.

There are fictional stories about "non-consensual" sex as well out there, but how easy is it to make it so that the person comes to enjoy it at the end? That's usually how it goes, the victim gets fucked until they love it and ask for more, and then it comes off as if the ends justify the means, or maybe the receiver gave hesitant, sober, non-coerced consent in the first place, which would not violate anything, as it is still consent, despite making it up as if it wasn't. And hell, regardless of those tweaks, if you write it fancifully or poignantly enough, it can be argued for being literary. Yes, books like Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita in my state, I can read openly. I can go to an adult store and buy porn videos of porn stars acting out rape scenes, and it's obviously legal because it's contractual, and the actors are disclaimed to all be 18 or older. In that case, it's not a real incident, it's merely role-play between consenting adults who want to portray their sex as otherwise. Just keep it in the house and you won't be violating any public statutes on obscenity.

Fake, virtual depictions of crime are called "victimless crimes", because no one is being harmed. And if so, good. No one is being hurt. Like someone else mentioned prior, we have games where we can murder other people, and actual murder is illegal, and yet they are protected in America as freedom of expression with artistic value--yes, even Postal 2, where I can take a steaming piss on Gary Coleman and then dismember him, has some level of artistic value (although subversive) as considered by some big name critics at the time, though retailers also had the freedom to disagree and not stock it whatsoever. Yet still, other illegal crimes are treated as more taboo in the same medium. Can these things groom? Yes, there is always potential to groom a vulnerable, suggestible mind, but unless you go out and act on it, unless you harm another, unless the art you are distributing is the depiction of an actual, traceable minor, or your story is in reality a confession to an illegal crime, that is treading on the rights of others, and you must be punished for it. Otherwise, I say have at it, but I think the Miller test for obscenity is a fair one for state statutes to follow, anyway.

These paraphernalia already exist. Decriminalizing it only changes its status from a crime by which you can be prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced for heavily into an act in which your penalty is greatly lessened or is allowed up to a certain regulatory limit. Legalizing it makes it perfectly allowable by law, period. Decriminalization or legalization will absolutely not change the instances in which the acts occur, though it will be reflected in crime reports to be far less because they no longer classify as a serious crime or a crime altogether, respectively. The people who rape do it because they can, and they don't give a shit regardless. Legal status of available suggestive materials has nothing to do with actually carrying out an action against another.
 
Since you guys are debating about virtual child pornography, let's take a look what the law says in regards to child pornography:

Types of Depictions

Any depiction of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct may be considered child pornography. This can include photographs, digital images, computer-generated images, drawings, videos, or animations, among others. This also applies if the person in the depiction is actually an adult but appears to be a minor. Moreover, altering an image or video so that it appears to depict a minor may also be child pornography (for example, editing the face of a minor onto the nude body
of an adult in an image or video).
Based on this description, virtual reality will be no exception to the rule, because the U.S. government doesn't care if the minors aren't real or are mature enough for sex. If they're not physically 18 or older, than it's considered as child pornography, and you'll be thrown in jail for it. Virtual porn in regards to fully grown women would be given the ok. This is why I try to find a fictional waifu-material character that's within legal age, but the Japanese video game and anime/manga industry made it much more difficult for me to find one. I certainly hope a particular user I had a debate with regarding this subject sees where I'm coming from now that I have a legit source that's shames loli images.
 
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Based on this description, virtual reality will be no exception to the rule

None of the questions posed by the OP is inquiring about whether or not it is currently illegal. Among other things, the OP is asking if it should stay illegal, and why or why not.
 
None of the questions posed by the OP is inquiring about whether or not it is currently illegal. Among other things, the OP is asking if it should stay illegal, and why or why not.

Then my post still stands as to why it should stay illegal, because virtual reality goes under "computer-generated images," as virtual people are computer-generated.
 
Then my post still stands as to why it should stay illegal, because virtual reality goes under "computer-generated images," as virtual people are computer-generated.

But your answer would be begging the question. You are saying computer-generated depictions of illegal acts should stay illegal because the law states that computer-generated depictions of illegal acts are illegal.

Would you, instead, question why pornography whose subjects are not real people must be treated in the same way as subjects who are real and whose rights are actually being illegally infringed upon?
 
But your answer would be begging the question. You are saying computer-generated depictions of illegal acts should stay illegal because the law states that computer-generated depictions of illegal acts are illegal.

Would you, instead, question why pornography whose subjects are not real people must be treated in the same way as subjects who are real and whose rights are actually being illegally infringed upon?

Because both the U.S. government and U.S. citizens don't understand the difference between fantasy and reality. If you guys try to oppose censorship on fictional minors in the U.S., those citizens will accuse you as pedophiles who want to date underage girls in our games, even though most of you aren't pedophiles yourselves. Things would get more complicated if you guys try to oppose government law, which would require a lot more fire power to have its rules changed.
 
I guess I'm going to be that guy then. I think that virtual porn depicting the otherwise illegal should be legalised. I personally feel that it is unfair to automatically assume the people who have these desires are automatically going to commit crimes and I think those that don't deserve access to a harmless outlet for their desires.

I agree with you 100%.

Pornography itself does not hurt anyone. And to ban it only infringes on the freedom of expression of peaceful porn makers/stars/whatever. And its a restriction of freedom on the peaceful individuals who watch it.
 
Hmm. My first instinct is just to screw up my face and be like 'ew no', topic over. If I was asked this offline I would probably do just that.

I think if no one is physically getting hurt then idk.... it's 'okay'? Okay to the point where I wouldn't call the police or whatever. I'd be horrified by someone getting off to animated child pornography but if that's the outlet that keeps things stable then it's something I can allow. Shame & not seeking mental health support is a big reason for some paedophiles crossing over into molester territory and so if there's a way to lessen the number of incidents there, well, I guess I could stomach that. You certainly can't punish someone for their thoughts. It's just hard for me to get over my base line of reasoning which is disgust, which I'm aware is not helpful when trying to help paedophiles.
 
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