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Chit-Chat: Welcome to the Strategies & Movesets forum for Sun & Moon!

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Zekrom said:
Also, why would Greninja get banned?
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Cos it maims offense and nothing stops it apart from niche crap tbh. Especially since it gets STAB on EVERYTHING. Its faster than the whole tier and since getting Gunk Shot and Low Kick even less walls it and stops it and guessing which moves it has will probably cost you a poke a la gen 4 Salamence.
 
Archer99 said:
Greninja... Mach Punch and dead. I mean you can kill it with everything, All common scarfers kill it. It's not Uber.
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why is deoxys banned? sucker punch and dead. I mean you can kill it with everything, All common scarfers kill it. It's not Uber.
 
iirc conkeldurr mach punch doesnt even ohko gren with se stab lol

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 212-252 (74.3 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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The argument that something should not be banned because it can be ohko'd by something (which is a one-time niche at best) is invalid and should be avoided. If you honestly don't know why Greninja is ban-worthy then you are probably not playing enough OU. However, given that Greninja is literally on almost every other team out there, the chances of that happening is very, very slim.

I mean, come on now. :/
 
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Zeffy said:
The argument that something should not be banned because it can be ohko'd by something (which is a one-time niche at best) is invalid and should be avoided. If you honestly don't know why Greninja is ban-worthy then you are probably not playing enough OU. However, given that Greninja is literally on almost every other team out there, the chances of that happening is very, very slim.

I mean, come on now. :/
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That's the thing though, it not just one niche Pokemon that checks it. There's several things that check it. Unless Scarf Terrakion/Lando/Garchomp/Diggersby is what you'd call rare niche crap these days.
 
Zekrom said:
That's the thing though, it not just one niche Pokemon that checks it. There's several things that check it. Unless Scarf Terrakion/Lando/Garchomp/Diggersby is what you'd call rare niche crap these days.
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Not really niche crap, but they have better things to run than Scarf. And the fact that they have to run Scarf in order to check Greninja says a lot.
 
Archer99 said:
Greninja... Mach Punch and dead. I mean you can kill it with everything, All common scarfers kill it. It's not Uber.
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Deoxys-A is more frail than Greninja. It loses to Shadow Sneak spiritomb, infact all Deoxys do, why are they uber?

Mach Punch isnt a good argument and thats ignoring the fact that Greninja, can you know, change types so its not even super effective anymore. :\

Really... Just notice the difference between them.
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Not everything has to be the level of mega mence or mega ray to be classed as "uber". If a pokemon is broken in standard play, it will be banned. End of. Even if it sucks in ubers but is still too much for ou.

Also, using scarfers/revenge killers to get rid of something solely should tell you how broken something really is. If you have to resort to revenge killing something to stop it (thus probably foddering your whole team because none of those scarfers can switch in directly so arent even checks), uhhhhhhh isnt that indicative of a MASSIVE problem with said threat?

Lastly ill address "it cant wall break because 95/103 offenses are mediocre" and "Gunk Sot and Low Kick dont beat its counters". 95/103 offenses maybe "mediocre" when we have megas running around but you are all simply underestimating the fact that it gets STAB on everything, that is a HUGE 50% boost to all its moves. Ill give an example.

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 221-265 (34.4 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Without STAB that isnt breaking Chansey. But with Protean and Stealth Rock present, that is ridiculously close, infact 2hkoing some of the time.

Protean is why its such a good wall breaker and in my opinion would a better case for banning this ability rather than Gren itself who would be more manageable without it.

Also its speed is ridiculous and it outspeeds basically all of the metagame.


EDIT:

Rotom-W also isnt a counter.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory/Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, 2hko with Rocks.

40 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 160-188 (52.6 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 2hko with Rocks.


Rotom-W cant take and is generally inept at taking hits from both sides of the spectrum, js.

Its counters are niche pokemon like Gastrodon who is probably the best example of one this thing has and that is ONLY because no one uses Grass Knot/HP Grass anymore lol. Same with MegaSaur and Extrasensory, which brings me to my next point. Its ridiculously unpredictable and has a huge movepool, finding out which moves it has and doesnt pack will probably cost you a pokemon to find out. Salamence was banned in gen 4 for this reason.

Also as of note it can set up Spikes and KEEP them up thanks to it wrecking defoggers and spinners with offensive pressure. I dont think i need to say why that is retardedly dangerous.
 
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honestly there is no reason to keep on arguing, plenty of good arguments have been made above and it's really up to you if you still think gren isn't banworthy.

tbh im more interested in the 'soul dew in ou test' idea. srsly wut lol -.- u tryin to get ou rekt m8?
 
Finally got to set up a few pokes that have been banging around in my box yesterday.

Galahad the "Roost + 3 Attacks" Scizor
Nature: Adamant
Item: Scizorite/Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
Roost
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Superpower/Knock off

Found out a couple things about this set yesterday that illuminated the variables that make this thing viable. First off, it's a glaring target for burn stalls. So I'm thinking of swapping out the Scizorite for a Lum when I'm running another mega. Turns out Technician Scizor and Mega Diancie have incredible defensive synergy, and eliminate some of the gaping holes that were in my team before yesterday.

Mega Diancie
Nature: Naive
Item: Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
Diamond Storm
Moonblast
Stealth Rock
Earth Power

As previously mentioned, when combined with semi-defensive Scizor, this set is delightfully disruptive, especially to offensive teams. Greninja has always been a big obstacle to me as a Dragon user, and watching one fall to this core was a huge victory to me. I should probably get started on a Rapid Spin/Defog user to complete the package.

Manticor the Mega Beedrill
Nature: Jolly
Item: Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
U-Turn
Poison Jab
Protect
Drill Run

I set this one up for a couple reasons. First and foremost, I wanted a viable Bug-type for UU matches, and second, Fairy types tend to wall my Dragons in a way that I'm done playing around. I thought I'd run into some issues opting for U-Turn instead of X-Scissor (mostly due to its range on other pokes), but was surprised at how hard it hits with the Adaptability boost. Drill Run is definitely the weak link in this set, I might go with Knock Off instead.

Dorkasaurus the Defensive Breloom
Nature: Careful
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Spore
Drain Punch
Leech Seed
Protect

This is actually an awesome set to run next to the Tyranitar that I've grown to love in this gen. I know the set is pretty standard, so I won't go into much detail about how it works, but it trolls a lot of really popular pokes in ORAS. Using the 2 as a defensive core leaves me open to attacks from Primal Groudon, so I like to bring my Garchomp along as well. I might opt for a Dragonite or Hydreigon instead for the Special orientation, they're both high up on my list of next pokes to breed.
 
srinator said:
why is deoxys banned? sucker punch and dead. I mean you can kill it with everything, All common scarfers kill it. It's not Uber.
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Actually Deo-A outspeeds scarfed ~90 speed Pokemon, such as Scarf Diggersby and Landorus-T. I get your joke, but there are some scarfers who can't even revenge kill it.

Speaking of Deo-A, am I the only one who finds its LO Ubers set pretty bad?
 
Archer99 said:
I'm going to say nothing, Just look at the examples. Don't you notice a pattern?, They're all stallers, Just saying...

And yeah, I just want to see Soul Dew on OU. Draco Meteor spammer Latios incoming.
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If Soul Dew will be allowed (which I kinda doubt), I can see Weavile, Mega Houndoom and Bisharp skyrocketing in usage.
 
Deoxys falls pretty hard to Tyranitar as well.
 
lol rmt in dcc genius!

also archer fyi, i dont play stall very often. my previous semi-stall team dated back to early january. i have been using the stall team (credits go to ashley for the base and permission to continuously use it) which we made very often because i have no other teams with me. my preferred playstyle is actually offense (and im p sure you know this) AND i can confirm that gren is not only a threat to offense but a bother to stall as well. srsly after its main checks have been knocked out/worn down, get ready to face #grenfest2014 o/ \o with its superb coverage and stab everything and slight unpredictability (some dont even run hydro miss anymore so ya).

would just like to make it clear, tyvm.

edit: also i tend to play aggressively with the stall team mentioned above which is in fact a trait of offense. damn im playing stall wrong
 
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Archer99 said:
Yeah, I know that. And, I just don't know. Maybe I talk too much.
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you dont have to be so harsh on yourself. you're a relatively knew player so lack of experience or understanding will often cause misunderstandings between more seasoned players. just keep on practicing and improving n_n
 
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