Chechnyan LGBT Crisis

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-kadyrov-chechen-russia-region-a7677901.html

Gay men are being held in "camps" in the Chechen Republic where they are subjected to torture and beatings, human rights campaigners have claimed.

The claims follow reports last week that 100 gay men had been rounded up and imprisoned in Chechnya, with at least three people allegedly murdered. The allegations were made by a Russian newspaper and human rights campaigners. "In Chechnya, the command was given for a 'prophylactic sweep' and it went as far as real murders," independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta claimed.

At the time, Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov's spokesperson denied the claims on the grounds that no one in Chechnya is homosexual. "You cannot arrest or repress people who just don't exist in the republic," spokesman Alvi Karimov told Interfax.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rison-beatings-electric-shocks-anti-gay-purge

At least once a day, Adam's captors attached metal clamps to his fingers and toes. One of the men then cranked a handle on a machine to which the clamps were linked with wires, and sent powerful electric shocks through his body. If he managed not to scream, others would join in, beating him with wooden sticks or metal rods.

As they tortured him, the men shouted verbal abuse at him for being gay, and demanded to know the names of other gay men he knew in Chechnya. "Sometimes they were trying to get information from me; other times they were just amusing themselves," he said, speaking about the ordeal he underwent just a month ago with some difficulty.

Adam's testimony, as well as that of another gay Chechen man with whom the Guardian spoke, backs up reports that a shocking anti-gay campaign is under way in the Russian republic of Chechnya, involving over a hundred and possibly several hundred men. Some are believed to have been killed.

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Christ almighty.
Is there any way to help? Will this be intervened with at all?

Is this the kind of thing foreign nations can intervene in? Cuz if not, I unfortunately see little being done about it since iirc Russia has been anti-gay for some time now for some reason.

I wonder what the Russian government has said about these events.

Nah said:

Is this the kind of thing foreign nations can intervene in? Cuz if not, I unfortunately see little being done about it since iirc Russia has been anti-gay for some time now for some reason.

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It would primarily come down to NGOs to put any sort of foreign pressure on the situation, because yeah, the governments themselves aren't going to go further than condemning the acts/the responsible parties in their respective statements. Particularly not when people are already as antsy about ticking off Putin as is, unfortunately.

Cloyster said:

It would primarily come down to NGOs to put any sort of foreign pressure on the situation, because yeah, the governments themselves aren't going to go further than condemning the acts/the responsible parties in their respective statements. Particularly not when people are already as antsy about ticking off Putin as is, unfortunately.

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Chechnya is ultraconservatively Muslim, however. It might be the case that, however conservative Russia is, what's going on in Chechnya is too atrocious and undermines the stance on LGBT that the federal government wants to set.

Kanzler said:

Chechnya is ultraconservatively Muslim, however. It might be the case that, however conservative Russia is, what's going on in Chechnya is too atrocious and undermines the stance on LGBT that the federal government wants to set.

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(I'm still waking up a bit so forgive me, lol)
Do you think the Russian government would step in to try save a modicum of face for the Western world?

Cloyster said:

(I'm still waking up a bit so forgive me, lol)
Do you think the Russian government would step in to try save a modicum of face for the Western world?

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I think so. Putin's tried to claim his country isn't anti-LGBT for news reporters in the past. I think his whole LGBT stance is a delicate balance between playing into the attitudes of the Russian people and not being too embarassing on the international stage. I can't imagine that Putin would be willing to have "concentration camps" with any kind of people in it as part of Russia's image.

Also apparently, according to a LGBT Network spokesperson, there aren't any "concentration camps" going on. You can blame the press for that.

Kanzler said:

I think so. Putin's tried to claim his country isn't anti-LGBT for news reporters in the past. I think his whole LGBT stance is a delicate balance between playing into the attitudes of the Russian people and not being too embarrassing on the international stage. I can't imagine that Putin would be willing to have "concentration camps" with any kind of people in it as part of Russia's image.

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Can't say I disagree with anything here. At what point do you think Putin would step in? Before international pressure or afterwards?

Also apparently, according to a LGBT Network spokesperson, there aren't any "concentration camps" going on. You can blame the press for that.

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Yeah, I deliberately avoided the "concentration camp" wording as that seemed like very blatant sensationalism, given how little we realistically know about the situation.

Cloyster said:

Can't say I disagree with anything here. At what point do you think Putin would step in? Before international pressure or afterwards?

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I guess it depends on what actually is going on. I was assuming he'd step in on the whole concentration camp basis, but if it's just your more-or-less typical repressive crackdown, I don't think he'd have much to say. Yeah, I dunno, I don't feel like I could say anything more than that :( It's too early to tell.

ugh why do people have to be judgemental and stupid... Someone really should stop this it's getting ridiculous.

The only reason Putin would stop the camps is if he thinks it will make him look good in the eyes of other nations. He's already had an embarrassment in Syria- he doesnt need another one.

Unfortunately for them, that chunk of the world is a bit heavily Muslim aligned. As cynical as it is to say, they live in the wrong country to be gay. Those 3 (so far) deaths? Only one was from torture, the other two are reported as honor killings from family members.

Russia won't do anything. If I remember didn't the new beauty and the beast movie cause a huge stir in the country for a gay scene? (And I believe it was banned).

Only hope for LGBT in that country is to be ferried out by one of the volunteer emergency evacuation groups. But most probably won't trust anyone enough to get in contact, as from my knowledge, most of those taken by security forces were lured to said forces with fake messages from "friends or family who knew their truth" but turned out to either be hijacked or forced to lure others under torture.

Religion of peace is very interesting isnt it? Next week we can look at all the human rights violations against women in Iran and Saudi!

Arsenic said:

Religion of peace is very interesting isnt it? Next week we can look at all the human rights violations against women in Iran and Saudi!

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Because other religions aren't guilty of abusing homosexuals and/or women at all...

gimmepie said:

Because other religions aren't guilty of abusing homosexuals and/or women at all...

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This. I never met my grandmother, she died giving birth to mom, she died because she had 4 children before that and her body couldn't handle it, and the roman catholic church bans birth control (or at least, they did then). They were raised in their catholic faith to believe that birth control is somehow bad.

gimmepie said:

Because other religions aren't guilty of abusing homosexuals and/or women at all...

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Sure they have! I mean all religion is cancer and needs to be removed from this earth along with all those who refuse to give it up. How about instead of sucking off a church that just wants your money over a book written by some nut who was probably tripping balls, you go volunteer to help the homeless, or go help teach usable values to boy and girl scouts, hell just go clean up trash around nature. And anyways religion and peace used together are an oxymoron. I'm rambling again.

All religion is terrible and partook in many horrible acts. I simply find Islam to have the highest rate, especially for our modern world.

Genji Shimada said:

This. I never met my grandmother, she died giving birth to mom, she died because she had 4 children before that and her body couldn't handle it, and the roman catholic church bans birth control (or at least, they did then). They were raised in their catholic faith to believe that birth control is somehow bad.

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I'm sorry for being insensitive, but you aren't really comparing getting pregnant a fifth time to being lured into a government torture center by already kidnapped family, or being beaten for not fully covering your body, are you?

While I don't agree with banning of birth control, it's not an atrocity. Even if it was an accident that she got pregnant, it could have easily been avoided by not having sex.

Arsenic said:

Sure they have! I mean all religion is cancer and needs to be removed from this earth along with all those who refuse to give it up. How about instead of sucking off a church that just wants your money over a book written by some nut who was probably tripping balls, you go volunteer to help the homeless, or go help teach usable values to boy and girl scouts, hell just go clean up trash around nature. And anyways religion and peace used together are an oxymoron. I'm rambling again.

All religion is terrible and partook in many horrible acts. I simply find Islam to have the highest rate, especially for our modern world.

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I won't pretend that there's not a lot of Islamic extremism today, but throughout history Christianity has shed more blood than any other religion and it's still adding to that total whilst everyone is getting obsessed with Islam.

I don't think it's right to lump all religion in with extremism either. When it's done properly religion can be a beautiful thing that brings people together and promotes peace. The problem isn't religion as a whole, it's zealots.

Russians hate Chechnyans to begin with, so it is possible there'll be enough support to launch an attack on them over this

Arsenic said:

I'm sorry for being insensitive, but you aren't really comparing getting pregnant a fifth time to being lured into a government torture center by already kidnapped family, or being beaten for not fully covering your body, are you?

While I don't agree with banning of birth control, it's not an atrocity. Even if it was an accident that she got pregnant, it could have easily been avoided by not having sex.

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Oh no! I was just leaving an example of when another religion fucked up ^^ Sorry it came that way!

One should note this is occurring in Chechnya in particular, a particular sub-division of Russia that's infamous for not one, but two wars in which Chechnya attempted to declare independence from Russia.

Another thing to note is that Chechnya is rather authoritarian even in comparison to the rest of Russia, especially with Islam as the dominant religion of the region, though not as autocratic as those in the Middle East. Despite that, the government of Chechnya still has to address to the federal government in Moscow. Many compare what is occurring with the gays in Chechnya to what Adolf Hitler did to the Jews, but this is also reminiscent of what former Soviet Dictator Joseph Stalin did to many ethnic groups, political opponents and such around the same time the Holocaust took place.

This is currently one of the biggest humanitarian crisis situations going on outside the Middle East, and I really think it needs to be spoken out against, even with Russia's infamous anti-gay laws, because what is going on here is pretty much a genocide.