To say that one would "forever remain the biological sex that they're born with" in regards to transgender folk is being a trasphobic bigot. Full-stop. You're invaliding trangender folk's way of life, their every desire to identity as their gender and transition to that sex, only to hear things that neither their transition surgery nor HRT doesn't matter because they'll always be their sex. That is disgustingly insulting and untrue.
It's not transphobic. It's reality.
Nothing bigoted about it, either. You yourself haven't been making any examples of how it's bigoted or transphobic. You just throw those words out there as insults, not as any substantiated claim about the things I've said.
Humans are all born with a biological sex, one which they cannot change currently. There are surgeries and hormone therapies but they do not change your innate biological sex. Stating that doesn't make me transphobic nor bigoted. I'm not invalidating anyone's way of life. I understand and fully accept transgender people's choice to transition. I just stated that there's a difference between transgender transition and changing your biological sex. One is possible, the other is currently not. I don't know how far off we are from getting to that point, hell we might be closer than I realise, but currently no one can change their biological sex, not with surgeries and not with hormones. If you have a study that proves me wrong on that, I'd love to see it.
Where is your source on this? From what I can find, this is blatantly false.
You don't need to spend more than at least a few minutes to realize that
this entire study pretty much states that the biggest reason for transgender suicide is basically either due to discrimination/harassment of some sort after either coming out or physical assault. I cannot find any evidence whatsoever that backs up your statement whatsoever.
This is an interesting study. However, it didn't really address my point.
I'll explain: If the higher suicide rates among transgender people are all about the discrimination, harassment and physical assault and have nothing to do with gender dysphoria itself and/or the mental illnesses that one is prone to because of it, how is it the suicide rate is so much higher for trans people for those reasons? The rate of general society wouldn't even get close to that no matter if they've been discriminated, bullied, or abused. The moment you single out the factor of gender dysphoria it seems that the suicide rates go way up, higher when they have been suffering things like you've mentioned, but even without it it's way higher than the rest of society... Am I wrong about this too? Are the suicide rates for straight people who've been bullied the same as those of transgender people who've been bullied?(using bullying as an example, I mean any of the experiences mentioned before).
What I meant was that the suicide rate in general for trans people is higher because of their gender dysphoria and the mental illnesses that tend to accompany it, not even including the higher rates of those who have been suffering at the hand of society. Of course the suicide rate would be higher for people who have gender dysphoria AND have been rejected, abused, bullied, etc. I had no doubt about that.
I have one problem with the study, though, and it's the fact that it includes 'gender non-conforming' people along with transgender people.
Heck,
there's even a study that goes
against what you claim -- usage of a transgender individual's chosen name (in which you're respecting the name they've chosen as well as the gender they identify as) is linked to decreased mental health risks.
This 'study' is not in-depth enough to make a substantial enough claim.
129 people, again including gender non-conforming people, from THREE US CITIES, is not enough for me.
If you have another source for the same claim i'd love to see it.
Thanks for giving me the time of day, anyway, even though you think i'm a horrible transphobic bigot.
Also here are some fun tidbits:
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Planned Parenthood even says that biological sex isn't quite so clear cut as we think. What most people refer to as "biological sex" is really just sex assigned at birth, while actual biological sex is much more complicated, as stated here:
"A person with XX chromosomes usually has female sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically female.
A person with XY chromosomes usually has male sex and reproductive organs, and is therefore usually assigned biologically male."
The only exception to that is intersex, which is very rare.
That's pretty simple regarding biological sex.
Also, your biological sex is assigned to you by nature. It's not some arbitrary choice by a doctor. They don't have any choice in the matter and do not make any 'decision' for others. They just state a fact. It doesn't mean that this person can't be transgender and choose to transition and be referred to with different pronouns and all that stuff. It just means that this person's biological sex is, and forever will be the one with which they were born. A transgender is still biologically the sex they were born in. I would never call them by their biological pronouns, but we're not talking about how people choose to address trans folk, we're talking about the reality of what transgenderism and gender dysphoria are.
While I, and most decent people would respect transgender people, call them by their proper pronouns, it wouldn't change the side of the truth that we wouldn't be talking about and exclaiming to their faces out of context(because that would be very rude and I don't see a reason to do that). It is within context here, which is why I'm talking about it. I wouldn't just bring it up in front of a transgeder person for no reasno, or just to make them feel bad.
Anyway:
I don't subscribe to the way of thinking that planned parenthood is using in this article regarding biological sex.
I know and understand the differentiation betwee biological sex, the concept of gender and gender identitty. I don't fully understand why that article was relevant for our exchange.
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This March 2018 study from the American Society of Pediatrics pretty much essentially says what every other study on transgender folk says ever: those who are transgender or gender non-confirming generally are in poorer mental health because of society wanting them to conform more to their assigned sex than their actual gender identity.
Wait. Waitwaitwaitwaitwait.
Transgender people are generally in poorer mental health first and foremost because they have GENDER DYSPHORIA and are suffering because accompanying mental illnesses, or else the suicide rates wouldn't be so much higher for specifically people who have it.
It seems like this study claims that transgender people and GNC people are in poor mental health just because of external factors, that it has nothing to do with them having an existing mental disorder due to them gender dysphoria. That it has nothing to do with the internal struggles they face due to it. Seems wrong to me, and i'm not convinced by it.
I could go on and on and on, but I believe I've made my point rather clear. It's not difficult to treat transgender folk with a shred of human decency and refer to them both by their chosen name as well as their preferred pronouns, and also treating them like the gender they identify as. It's as simple as that.
You assume I don't already do that?(or maybe this wasn't aimed at me?).
Transgender folk are born and given an assigned sex based on genitalia and chromosomes, but that itself bluntly means **** all really -- genitalia issues can be remedied, hence SRS, and in the future
it may even be possible for transgender women to conceive. So anatomy isn't really an excuse to demean and invalidate transgender folk just because they were born in a different way that they identify with now.
I disagree. Biology is important. Truth is important even when it goes against our wants, and especially when it is within context of a discussion.
Like I've said. I wouldn't raise this discussion with a transgender person just to spite them.
I also did not demean transgender people. I might have invalidated claims that I found invalid, but I did not invalidate any transgender person's gender dysphoria, transition, and definitely not the facts of their hardships or way of life.
I hope I've made sense with all of this. If you're someone who hasn't known anyone or isn't someone who's transgender or non-gender conforming, it may be difficult to wrap your mind around exactly what the day-to-day pain and suffering is, but that's the reality. It's safe to say that for many transgender folk, we live "trapped" (so to speak) in our own anatomical bodies until we really feel safe to express ourselves. And who knows what kind of consequences that will have? For the day to day transgender man or woman, this is what goes on in our minds.
I agree with everything you've said in this quote. I may not fully understand it, but empathy is a thing and I get that transgender people are suffering, that the whole thing of 'being born and trapped in the wrong body' is absolutely a horrible situation to be in.
I have a feeling you and some other people in this discussion got the wrong idea of me, of my beliefs and principles, and especially of how I treat transgender people and gender non-conforming people.
