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Moveset Help & Other Questions (FAQ in first post)

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Khaotic Kebab

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    • Disclaimer: I'm not playing on Showdown, and I don't follow Smogon tiers or rules. Just to clear things up.

    I've been playing around with a few ideas for Cleric Pokemon. I don't want to use Clefable, as it's stats are slightly underwhelming compared to my other choices, and since many people use it, they'd probably expect me to use it too and therefore know how to counter it. I considered Florges, but it'd hurt my team synergy as I already have a Special Tank in Goodra. So I'm thinking Aromatisse - It's fairly unexpected as nobody really uses it, it has superior stats to Clefable and has a great ability in Aroma Veil. Here's what I'm thinking:

    Aromatisse @ Leftovers/Light Clay
    252 HP, 252 DEF, 4 SP.DEF
    Ability: Aroma Veil
    - Wish
    - Aromatherapy
    - Protect
    - Light Screen

    Because of its ability, Aromatisse doesn't have to worry about Taunt/Encore, so it's free to fill its whole moveset with support moves. Some people recommend giving it Moonblast, but despite its nice SP.ATK stat, that's not really what I'm going for.
    The defense EVs are for its own survivability, and it makes up for its lower SP.DEF with Light Screen - this also benefits my whole team, especially my already Specially Bulky 'mons like Mismagius and Goodra, and somewhat helps Avalugg with it's low SP.DEF. Aromatisse would hold a Light Clay to extend the Light Screen time. If Light Screen is replaced by Moonblast anyway, I'll sub in the Leftovers.
    Lastly, the Wish + Protect + Aromatherapy combo is a no-brainer. Standard Cleric Moveset.

    Any advice would be much obliged.
     
    Zeffy

    Zeffy

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    • Seen Feb 7, 2024
    Khaotic Kebab said:
    stuff
    Click to expand...

    Personally I'd go with Moonblast over Light Screen because you are basically setup-bait right now.

    I'm not overly fond of Aromatisse because it's so... underwhelming. Have you considered Altaria/Mega Altaira? Audino/Mega-Audino? Blissey? Chansey? Vileplume? Togekiss? Granbull? Celebi? The list of 'mons that you could use that are potentially better than Aromatisse can go on, really.
     
    Last edited:

    PlatinumDude

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    • Zeffy said:
    Personally I'd go with Moonblast over Light Screen because you are basically Taunt-bait right now.

    I'm not overly fond of Aromatisse because it's so... underwhelming. Have you considered Altaria/Mega Altaira? Audino/Mega-Audino? Blissey? Chansey? Vileplume? Togekiss? Granbull? Celebi? The list of 'mons that you could use that are potentially better than Aromatisse can go on, really.
    Click to expand...

    Just saying, Aromatisse has Aroma Veil, which blocks Taunt and Encore entirely, meaning it's not Taunt bait and it can get away with running 4 status moves. Then again, Moonblast should be on Aromatisse so it won't be setup bait for a ton of things.
     
    Zeffy

    Zeffy

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    PlatinumDude said:
    Just saying, Aromatisse has Aroma Veil, which blocks Taunt and Encore entirely, meaning it's not Taunt bait and it can get away with running 4 status moves. Then again, Moonblast should be on Aromatisse so it won't be setup bait for a ton of things.
    Click to expand...

    ehh i used taunt-bait as a catch-all term but yeah it still doesn't change the fact that there's a myriad of other better choices :)
     
    GreenFlame

    GreenFlame

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    I'm still not sure about ability for Lucario. I know I won't be using Steadfast, but I don't know if I should use Justified or Inner Focus. I'm leaning towards Justified because it seems more useful than Inner Focus when Lucario will be Mega Evolving anyway.

    I'm thinking Inner Focus really can't help much if Lucario is Mega Evolving as soon as it's in battle, but Justified can help it switch into a Dark type attack, take the hit, get the boost and then Mega Evolve. Far more utility, so maybe I should go with that.
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • GreenFlame said:
    I'm still not sure about ability for Lucario. I know I won't be using Steadfast, but I don't know if I should use Justified or Inner Focus. I'm leaning towards Justified because it seems more useful than Inner Focus when Lucario will be Mega Evolving anyway.

    I'm thinking Inner Focus really can't help much if Lucario is Mega Evolving as soon as it's in battle, but Justified can help it switch into a Dark type attack, take the hit, get the boost and then Mega Evolve. Far more utility, so maybe I should go with that.
    Click to expand...

    Just stick to Justified on physical Lucario. Other than that, the ability doesn't really matter.
     
    skyburial

    skyburial

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    • On the subject of Lucario, anyone ever tried it out with a support set? I created one because I needed Follow Me support on my VGC team and Lucario is the only Steel type that learns it, which appealed to me for team synergy.

    Since the support move pool on this mon is top notch, I thought I'd see if anyone else had tried it. Turns out Smogon had a similar set to mine posted in their Gen V Dex:

    Lucario @ Chople Berry
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Follow Me
    - Extreme Speed
    - Drain Punch
    - Detect

    Mine is pretty similar:

    Lucario @ Chople Berry/Leftovers
    Ability: Steadfast
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpA / 228 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Follow Me
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Helping Hand
    - Protect

    It gets walled by Ghost types but I have 3 answers to Aegislash, 2 for Mega Gengar, and 3 for Support Gengar, and Sableye is not at all a problem for my team. What are your thoughts on this mon? It's actually doing surprisingly well on the ladder so far.
     

    Juxapose

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    Can someone explain how Bulk works?

    Before you give me some dumb answers like:
    "Defense reduces your physical damage"
    "Special Defense reduces special damage"
    "HP allows you to live through strong hits"

    I will say that I already know all this. My question refers to how does bulk allows some Pokemon to survive 2-3 super effective attacks, while others can't.

    I ask this because today I was involved in a battle between Conkeldurr and my Crobat. I have battled Conkeldurr many times in the past. One bravebird normally takes his HP down to 0 unless the opponent is using a Focus Sash (which happens a lot!) This time, I was only able to get his HP down to 20% which blew my mind! I checked Conkeldurr's bulk, and at 95 defense and 108 HP rate, this thing is pretty bulky. But why did this thing just take my hit like a champ while other times it diddn't?

    I did win the battle, considering that Crobat put Conkeldurr to sleep and hit it twice. But why did this thing have so much more bulk than ANY other Conkeldurr that I have ever faced? And why even my bulkiest pokemon cannot take hits like other equally bulky Pokemon?
     
    Nah

    Nah

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    Juxapose said:
    I ask this because today I was involved in a battle between Conkeldurr and my Crobat. I have battled Conkeldurr many times in the past. One bravebird normally takes his HP down to 0 unless the opponent is using a Focus Sash (which happens a lot!) This time, I was only able to get his HP down to 20% which blew my mind! I checked Conkeldurr's bulk, and at 95 defense and 108 HP rate, this thing is pretty bulky. But why did this thing just take my hit like a champ while other times it diddn't?

    I did win the battle, considering that Crobat put Conkeldurr to sleep and hit it twice. But why did this thing have so much more bulk than ANY other Conkeldurr that I have ever faced? And why even my bulkiest pokemon cannot take hits like other equally bulky Pokemon?
    Click to expand...
    That Conkeldurr was probably running significant Defense and/or HP investment, which would let it live a Brave Bird. What exactly is your Crobat's set?
     

    Juxapose

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    Zekrom said:
    That Conkeldurr was probably running significant Defense and/or HP investment, which would let it live a Brave Bird. What exactly is your Crobat's set?
    Click to expand...

    My Crobat is Jolly Nature with 252 Speed/Attack with Wide Lens (For accuracy). 31 IV to HP, Attack, Defense, Special Defense, Speed.
     
    Nah

    Nah

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    Juxapose said:
    My Crobat is Jolly Nature with 252 Speed/Attack with Wide Lens (For accuracy). 31 IV to HP, Attack, Defense, Special Defense, Speed.
    Click to expand...
    Ah, that would explain it. Conkeldurrs in singles typically run an Assault Vest set, which has very little, if any, HP and/or Defense investment. Which is why your Crobat normally OHKOs them.

    252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 320-378 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

    But what you ran into is a much less common set that has a lot of HP EVs, maybe something like this:

    252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 320-378 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Damage rolls also kind of factor into things.
     

    Juxapose

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    Zekrom said:
    Ah, that would explain it. Conkeldurrs in singles typically run an Assault Vest set, which has very little, if any, HP and/or Defense investment. Which is why your Crobat normally OHKOs them.

    252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 320-378 (91.1 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

    But what you ran into is a much less common set that has a lot of HP EVs, maybe something like this:

    252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 320-378 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Damage rolls also kind of factor into things.
    Click to expand...

    This does make sense, except 1 thing. If Conkeldurr fails to invest in HP or Defense, then what stat (Other than attack) are they investing?
     
    Nah

    Nah

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    Juxapose said:
    This does make sense, except 1 thing. If Conkeldurr fails to invest in HP or Defense, then what stat (Other than attack) are they investing?
    Click to expand...
    Special Defense. It has low Sp.Defense, so EVs+Assault Vest patch up that weakness.
     

    Sebastian_Sommer

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    • Could someone please explain to me the limitation of 'infestation'? I ask because I was able to switch out my pokemon during a single battle even though they got hit by this trapping move. I checked my battle video several times and counted only three turns had passed before I switched.
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • Sebastian_Sommer said:
    Could someone please explain to me the limitation of 'infestation'? I ask because I was able to switch out my pokemon during a single battle even though they got hit by this trapping move. I checked my battle video several times and counted only three turns had passed before I switched.
    Click to expand...

    Were you using a Ghost Pokemon? Ghost Pokemon can escape the effects of trapping moves and abilities by switching out as of Gen VI.
     

    Sebastian_Sommer

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    • PlatinumDude said:
    Were you using a Ghost Pokemon? Ghost Pokemon can escape the effects of trapping moves and abilities by switching out as of Gen VI.
    Click to expand...
    Well that made a lot of sense, I was using a mega banette during the battle which explains why I was able to switch out so frequently. Thanks mate! but I wonder why bulbapedia didn't mention this small detail about infestation?
     
    GreenFlame

    GreenFlame

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    What's a good EV set for this Calm Prankster Klefki?

    -Thunder Wave
    -Attract
    -Swagger
    -Foul Play


    Yes, I know it's Taunt bait (especially against Special Attackers), but I don't really mind. It's mostly for Battle Maison.
     

    PlatinumDude

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    • GreenFlame said:
    What's a good EV set for this Calm Prankster Klefki?

    -Thunder Wave
    -Attract
    -Swagger
    -Foul Play


    Yes, I know it's Taunt bait (especially against Special Attackers), but I don't really mind. It's mostly for Battle Maison.
    Click to expand...
    Max HP/max Special Defense if you can't find any notable physical attacks that Klefki should survive with any defensive investment.
     
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