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Australian Woman Killed in Minneapolis Police Shooting

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  • www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/

    So, first off, this occurred in one of the safest and wealthiest neighborhoods in the city of Minneapolis. The median home price on the 4 blocks surrounding the intersection mentioned in the article (Washburn Ave S and W 51st St) is over $500,000 USD.

    Figured this was worth posting as it's apparently national news over in Australia, and unlike the previous two shootings to come out of Minnesota, there is very little opportunity to drag race into the debate.

    Does this illustrate that there's a fundamental problem with police training in America as it is currently conducted? Will this incident serve as an actual wake-up call to Americans, or will it be ignored?

    If it feels like I'm coloring the topic a bit already, it's because I'm annoyed as fuck at the inner-city police forces in my region because this is the third well-publicized police shooting in the last 3 years where the victim was reported as defenseless but shot because of a likely perception of threat (Jamar Clark in 2015, Philando Castille in 2016, and now Justine Damond this year), and I'm fairly confident these are not isolated incidents, they just didn't get publicized before Ferguson.
     
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  • When I read about this my first thought was that since the victim was white it would get more media attention. That's a sad state of affairs when you're so accustomed to these deaths that your first reaction isn't sympathy but mild curiosity about how the media will cover it.

    But does it illustrate a fundamental problem? I think so, and I think more white people might be open to the idea now since some who perhaps couldn't really find a way to sympathize with, for instance, Castille, can now see themselves in the victim's place. I think widespread sympathy and awareness are the only thing that might save us from continuing with this policing problem.
     

    Mewtwolover

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  • Actually there's notable opportunity to drag race into the debate because the officer who shot her is black, let's not forget that racism against whites is as bad as racism against blacks.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4703892/Police-officer-shot-Justine-Damond-identified.html

    And Geronimo Yanez, who shot Philando Castille, is Hispanic, while Mark Ringgenberg and Dustin Schwarze, who were involved in the Jamar Clark case, were white. What's your point? We can either make this about race or we can make this about overzealous police training. I'm choosing to see this as an issue with overzealous police training, because it has happened with officers of a few different races and ethnicities in two neighboring police departments.
     

    Phantom1

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  • I'm exhausted from this argument already. Though I will toss into the pot one of the arguments I heard that people were blaming this guy's religion as a basis for the bias in the shooting.

    As someone actually in MN, where the fuck is black lives matter now?

    They say they want to stand with people against the police, but there has not been a single protest. There has not been a single road blocked in this lady's name. Confirms what I've always thought, that BLM is nothing more than a racist hate group. I've heard people call me ignorant on it, but it's true. Here's what appears to be an innocent white woman killed by a black cop, someone with no criminal record AT ALL. And they are silent. There have been a few passes of support, but not the outrage cause by Castile or Clark, who were both CRIMINALS with long records with police, including Clark for assaulting police, fleeing in a motor vehicle, and ending the chase by DRIVING into someone's yard.

    Let's look at Clark's record, eh?

    CLARK, JAMAR ONEAL
    05/03/1991

    10/26/2009 - 1090489491 Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Crim/Traf Mandatory
    Closed
    Drugs - Possess/Sale Small Amount of Marijuana - No Remuneration
    Convicted of a Petty Misdemeanor

    27-CR-10-5190 - 02/03/2010
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Aggravated Robbery First Degree (Aid/Abet - GOC)
    Convicted of a Felony

    881301200425 - 10/22/2013
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Violation of instruction permit by a person 18 years of age or older
    Convicted
    Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    270414200774 - 03/09/2014
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Brookdale
    Driving after suspension
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced
    Traffic Regulation - Driver Must Carry Proof of Insurance when Operating Vehicle
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    274214008539 - 08/18/2014
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Loiter with an open bottle
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    62-CR-15-2079 - 03/23/2015
    Ramsey Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Terroristic Threats-Reckless Disregard Risk (Not applicable - GOC)
    Convicted of a Felony
    Damage to Prop-1st Deg-Forseeable Risk Bodily Harm (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed
    Damage to Property-4th Deg-Intentional Damage-Other Circumstances (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed
    Domestic Assault-Misdemeanor-Intentionally Inflicts/Attempts to Inflict Bodily Harm on Another (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed

    That's just the public access courts. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of the people that are convicted felons being seen as heroes.

    I support police. I work with them every day. I trained to be a cop since I was a kid. I can't be a cop anymore because of my eyes, but this outrages me. In the other cases, there was a gray area. With Castile, I know Yanez personally, and I know for a fact he panicked, that it was a bad, bad accident. With Clark, I have no doubt that it was justified. But this one? Woman called 911, shot while talking to a police officer? Someone with no criminal history or suspicion against her? I looked at this cop, numerous, numerous complaints against him, all justified, and pushed aside so they could have their token muslim cop. Fuck that.
     
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    Hands

    I was saying Boo-urns
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    I'm exhausted from this argument already. Though I will toss into the pot one of the arguments I heard that people were blaming this guy's religion as a basis for the bias in the shooting.

    As someone actually in MN, where the **** is black lives matter now?

    They say they want to stand with people against the police, but there has not been a single protest. There has not been a single road blocked in this lady's name. Confirms what I've always thought, that BLM is nothing more than a racist hate group. I've heard people call me ignorant on it, but it's true. Here's what appears to be an innocent white woman killed by a black cop, someone with no criminal record AT ALL. And they are silent. There have been a few passes of support, but not the outrage cause by Castile or Clark, who were both CRIMINALS with long records with police, including Clark for assaulting police, fleeing in a motor vehicle, and ending the chase by DRIVING into someone's yard.

    Let's look at Clark's record, eh?

    CLARK, JAMAR ONEAL
    05/03/1991

    10/26/2009 - 1090489491 Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Crim/Traf Mandatory
    Closed
    Drugs - Possess/Sale Small Amount of Marijuana - No Remuneration
    Convicted of a Petty Misdemeanor

    27-CR-10-5190 - 02/03/2010
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Aggravated Robbery First Degree (Aid/Abet - GOC)
    Convicted of a Felony

    881301200425 - 10/22/2013
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Violation of instruction permit by a person 18 years of age or older
    Convicted
    Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    270414200774 - 03/09/2014
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Brookdale
    Driving after suspension
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced
    Traffic Regulation - Driver Must Carry Proof of Insurance when Operating Vehicle
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    274214008539 - 08/18/2014
    Hennepin Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Loiter with an open bottle
    Convicted - Level Of Sentence Unavailable/ Sentenced

    62-CR-15-2079 - 03/23/2015
    Ramsey Criminal/Traffic/Petty Downtown
    Terroristic Threats-Reckless Disregard Risk (Not applicable - GOC)
    Convicted of a Felony
    Damage to Prop-1st Deg-Forseeable Risk Bodily Harm (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed
    Damage to Property-4th Deg-Intentional Damage-Other Circumstances (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed
    Domestic Assault-Misdemeanor-Intentionally Inflicts/Attempts to Inflict Bodily Harm on Another (Not applicable - GOC)
    Dismissed

    That's just the public access courts. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of the people that are convicted felons being seen as heroes.

    I support police. I work with them every day. I trained to be a cop since I was a kid. I can't be a cop anymore because of my eyes, but this outrages me. In the other cases, there was a gray area. With Castile, I know Yanez personally, and I know for a fact he panicked, that it was a bad, bad accident. With Clark, I have no doubt that it was justified. But this one? Woman called 911, shot while talking to a police officer? Someone with no criminal history or suspicion against her? I looked at this cop, numerous, numerous complaints against him, all justified, and pushed aside so they could have their token muslim cop. **** that.

    if only you got this worked up every time a white cop decided he was above the law instead of trying to mitigate Castile's murder over misdemeanors in his past.

    Also, Shaun King has been writing about the murder by cop of Justine, but why don't we view some of the replies to one of his tweets on the matter?

    https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/statu...ed-by-minneap/embed?header=false&border=false

    Maybe this is why BLM hasn't openly rallied for her yet, because when one of their leading voices calls for justice for her he gets comments like

    "Wheres your support for the black NYPD cop(Miosotis Familia)who was killed by a Bronx thug? Oh wait, ur just a racist movement against cops??????"

    they can't do right from doing wrong when it comes to people like you and the twitter users deriding King for his show of support for her.
     
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    Phantom1

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  • if only you got this worked up every time a white cop decided he was above the law instead of trying to mitigate Castile's murder over misdemeanors in his past.

    I do not use twitter, and I do not acknowledge it as a credible news source. As for the quoted comment, it's true. Since BLM's creation assassinations of cops has gone up ridiculously. Many of the cops black. BLM is no worse than the KKK. They are reverse of the same coin. There is there public version, and there is a back side of the coin that calls for the deaths of anyone who ever wears blue.

    Anyways.

    Did I mention Castile's criminal history? No. I just said he had road violations. And I agreed that I think it was a bad call, but not a brutal murder as it is portrayed. Also, fyi, Yanez is hispanic, not white. And maybe if people gave a shit about the community in general and more people cared about when ANYONE kills ANYONE, especially addressing the violence within the black community... if only. A local chief here once said, "Now, they know all about the last three people who have been killed by the Milwaukee Police Department in the course of the last several years. There's not one of them that can name one of the last three homicide victims we've had in this city." And he is fucking right.

    I have been in the emergency room when the calls come in from a shooting. I've seen a three year old little girl come in, shot in the head. I've seen mothers crying over their grown up children. I've hugged a mom who rushed out of the room because she couldn't see him like that, and I had to urge her to go back inside because she might not have a second chance to. I watched the call come in after a boyfriend shot his girlfriend, her father, and her sister, and then kidnapped their child and went on the run. This world fucking sucks, and it's not because of the police. The actions of a few do not discredit the many.

    I was giving the explanation of Clark, who was mentioned in the OP, who was a known violent felon, yet people are celebrating him like a hero. I gave his public rap sheet, which is accessible to anyone who bothers to look it up. The main charges being first degree robbery - designated by a robbery or theft in which the victim receives serious injuries and/or the suspect is armed with a deadly weapon - and the felony coupled with domestic assault, first degree property assault, and terroristic threats.

    I am particularly upset, because, unlike the Castile case, this guy most DEFINITELY shouldn't have been a cop. Yanez made a mistake, he panicked and it's only right that he stops being a police officer. But this guy has numerous complaints against him, as well as two ongoing ones. He was known to have issues, multiple, especially disrespect toward women, and yet the force kept him. When you put all cops in the same pile and say they're evil, I will not support it. But when you have a BAD cop and you know it and don't take action, then I get angry. Officers with serious, legitimate complaints against them should be taken off duty until the investigation is cleared and/or proper action is taken. Then maybe shit like this won't happen.
     
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    Her

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    As someone actually in MN, where the fuck is black lives matter now?

    They say they want to stand with people against the police, but there has not been a single protest. There has not been a single road blocked in this lady's name. Confirms what I've always thought, that BLM is nothing more than a racist hate group. I've heard people call me ignorant on it, but it's true. Here's what appears to be an innocent white woman killed by a black cop, someone with no criminal record AT ALL. And they are silent. There have been a few passes of support, but not the outrage cause by Castile or Clark, who were both CRIMINALS with long records with police, including Clark for assaulting police, fleeing in a motor vehicle, and ending the chase by DRIVING into someone's yard.

    First and foremost, you are naturally going to confirm your own prejudices if that is the first thing you look for. One's confirmation bias will of course prove to oneself that they are correct, otherwise they may have to consider another point of view. I highly doubt the latter part of that sentence will happen.

    Secondly, Black Lives Matter exists for three main purposes.
    A) Making the extremely disproportionate level of violence directed at black people from police a national issue, directly borrowing many historical methods from those in the Civil Rights Movement.
    B) Advocating for police and judicial reform as a whole due to how police brutality and the failure of the system to protect those impacted can and will affect anyone. They are not specifically restricted to black people.
    C) Providing support to affected communities through self-empowerment and borrowing many techniques and ideas from the Black Panthers in terms of how they facilitated community outreach and internal support. It most commonly happens in historically black communities because, surprise, that is where a significant portion of these shootings happen.
    If you're going to throw stones, be clear on their ideals before you continue. The stones may be hitting someone who has directly fought for you.

    In regards to the perceived lack of action on BLM's part, there is simply a lack of information at this point in time - we have the gist of the situation, including brief aspects of Damond and Noor's background; we have minimal audio and we know that body cameras were not turned on for the shooting. We know a brief summary of the shooting and not much more - an organised rally at this point in time simply wouldn't be an efficient course of action yet. The family don't even know much. BLM realise that the public is going to demonise them one way or another, so launching a response on the same level of Castile with the little info we have to go on would just hurt their cause. Unlike in the cases of Clark and Castile, there was a far more immediate information to go on, their respective situations were a lot more transparent. Particularly in the case of Castile where we literally have him dying on video. Thank god some people have restraint before opening their mouths.
    But for the record, there has been at least one media mention of Black Lives Matters activists being involved. It is a simple act of supporting a grieving community during a trying time, not meant to immediately policitise a situation to fit one's narrative. Only trying to provide warmth during an extremely trying time.
    You will find a lot of the same attitude on social media - it may require looking outside of your typical social circle or one's news circle, but there is a sizable amount of support being directed through those channels.
    Continuing on, however - this Hannity-esque rant, for lack of a better turn of phrase, could be applied to the All Lives Matter crowd: Where is their presence? Have they done something to highlight the unconscionable nature of this killing? What exactly have they done to help the community affected by Ms. Damond's death? Or have they been silent because All Lives Matter only exists as an ideal to shut down discussions of police brutality against black people? But see, doesn't it seem ridiculous to immediately jump to conclusions about a group based on the lack of information present?

    ~criminal record~
    That's just the public access courts. I'm sorry, but I'm tired of the people that are convicted felons being seen as heroes.

    Being a convicted felon does not change anything - it does not deny them their right to not be subjected to unconscionable actions by police. What you see as idolisation is people not taking irrelevant factors into account. What you see as heroism is people not letting a person's past dictate whether their unlawful death was justified. Your argument essentially boils down to the idea that someone making bad choices, or even being a bad person, means officers of the law should be forgiven for removing them from this earth. Justine Damond, by seemingly all accounts, was a picture of kindness and respect towards all people. But she is not any more deserving of justice for her death than a convicted felon; in the end, both people died because of a failure on behalf of the law. Both deserve the full extent of justice. We will see if she gets the justice Clark did not, however.

    I support police. I work with them every day. I trained to be a cop since I was a kid. I can't be a cop anymore because of my eyes, but this outrages me. In the other cases, there was a gray area. With Castile, I know Yanez personally, and I know for a fact he panicked, that it was a bad, bad accident. With Clark, I have no doubt that it was justified. But this one? Woman called 911, shot while talking to a police officer? Someone with no criminal history or suspicion against her? I looked at this cop, numerous, numerous complaints against him, all justified, and pushed aside so they could have their token muslim cop. Fuck that.

    You were almost close to a good point! And then you had to give into base urges with the last few words. So close. But try as you might to undermine yourself, you actually do have something important to note here: lack of oversight and police holding themselves to accountability. These complaints against him are very relevant to the situation as it shows that he has a history of overstepping boundaries, to say the least. It also shows how little the system works to protect citizens from those who are supposed to be protecting them. If Noor was held to task for his previous actions, this tragedy likely would have never unfolded. An awful smear on behalf of those who let him handle a gun after these previous incidents.
     
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    Hands

    I was saying Boo-urns
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    Did I mention Castile's criminal history? No. I just said he had road violations. And I agreed that I think it was a bad call, but not a brutal murder as it is portrayed. Also, fyi, Yanez is hispanic, not white.

    EDIT: I was giving the explanation of Clark, who was mentioned in the OP, who was a known violent felon, yet people are celebrating him like a hero. I gave his public rap sheet, which is accessible to anyone who bothers to look it up. The main charges being first degree robbery - designated by a robbery or theft in which the victim receives serious injuries and/or the suspect is armed with a deadly weapon - and the felony coupled with domestic assault, first degree property assault, and terroristic threats.

    I am particularly upset, because, unlike the Castile case, this guy most DEFINITELY shouldn't have been a cop. Yanez made a mistake, he panicked and it's only right that he stops being a police officer. But this guy has numerous complaints against him, as well as two ongoing ones. He was known to have issues, multiple, especially disrespect toward women, and yet the force kept him. When you put all cops in the same pile and say they're evil, I will not support it. But when you have a BAD cop and you know it and don't take action, then I get angry. Officers with serious, legitimate complaints against them should be taken off duty until the investigation is cleared and/or proper action is taken. Then maybe **** like this won't happen.

    but not the outrage cause by Castile or Clark, who were both CRIMINALS with long records with police, including Clark for assaulting police, fleeing in a motor vehicle, and ending the chase by DRIVING into someone's yard.

    you outright lumped Castile in with Clark.

    Castile was murdered, like Damond was.

    And I never said Yanez was white, hell, I never even mentioned him. I was saying its a shame you don't spend as much energy protesting the actions of white cops who gun people down outside of what is a reasonable level of force as you spend trying to mitigate the murder of Castile.
     

    Phantom1

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  • you outright lumped Castile in with Clark.

    Castile was murdered, like Damond was.

    And I never said Yanez was white, hell, I never even mentioned him. I was saying its a shame you don't spend as much energy protesting the actions of white cops who gun people down outside of what is a reasonable level of force as you spend trying to mitigate the murder of Castile.

    You said a 'white cop' in your response to me. I was reiterating that Yanez is hispanic. I was also responding to the original post. As for their criminal status, last time I checked driving under the influence was illegal. Carrying a weapon under the influence is illegal. All coupled with child endangerment, which is also illegal. Castile was a criminal as well, though a less... severe one.

    Also, you do not know who I am or what I do for the community. For your information, I do protest. And have. I make moves to better my community in real life rather than being a social media warrior or blocking traffic only to piss people off for twenty minutes. I'm a co-owner of a food shelf that feeds 3,000 families a month in the East Side of Saint Paul. I work at a hospital, I'm a reserve police officer and assist with numerous community functions and diversion programs to keep kids off the streets, in school, and away from gang activity with PAL programs, police explorers, and special olympics. My shelf also runs with meals on wheels as well as the AIDS relief program, and assistance for victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. So do not say that I do not put energy into actions trying to create a better community, because that is my life.

    I agree with the jury that Castile's shooting was justified under the law as it is written, but I also believe that it was an unfortunate event, that, with better training, better recruitment, and better discipline, should not have happened. The response to the jury was disgraceful. Especially his mother turning heels and calling for Yanez' life and going full on 'fuck dah police' once the news cameras were off her. Hopefully she uses that large sum of money to donate to programs and causes that could better the community, like maybe the school he worked for. I doubt it though.

    As for the other comments on social media. I do not use it. I do not credit it to be a valued source of news, and never will. So this is not based off some facebook feed of my social circle. This is years of working actively with police and the community, since I was a kid. Things need to change on both sides of the argument. Plain and simple. This most recent shooting... I simply cannot understand as the evidence released barely has a story to speak of.

    As for the 'base urges' in the previous response, they are true. Noor is the first openly muslim and Somali officer in that precinct. Disrespect toward non-muslim women is common within their culture here, and is something well known. Hell, I myself have been told, as their supervisor, that an employee would not take an order from me because I am a woman. Many, including Noor's fellow officers that I've spoken to, felt the same about him, and he was not well-liked within the department because of his attitude. You can see the difference in the department's response. With Yanez, the initial response was support from the department and assurance to the community on the investigation, with this guy, Harteau went straight to outside investigation.
     
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    Her

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    My point being is that there are ways to describe him being the first Somali-American officer in that precinct without pulling out the 'token' label in the manner you did/have done, just so you can mention derogatory ideas about Muslims in a weak attempt to link Islam to this shooting. Embarrassing.
     

    Phantom1

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  • My point being is that there are ways to describe him being the first Somali-American officer in that precinct without pulling out the 'token' label in the manner you did/have done, just so you can mention derogatory ideas about Muslims in a weak attempt to link Islam to this shooting. Embarrassing.

    That's not what I was saying. I think it's ridiculous, but it was an argument I heard and I was sharing it as something people were talking about, to keep the conversation going. That was my first line in my post in this thread! Back off. I know his religion had jack shit to do with it. I'm an atheist for fuck's sake, I don't give a shit about other people's imaginary friends, and it doesn't change how I treat people.
     
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  • Friendly reminder to everyone here to behave.

    Anyway, I'm not very knowledgeable on this incident, but here's a few thoughts. Firstly, hell yes there's a problem with policing in the US. I'm in another country miles away and it seems like a week doesn't go by where the US isn't making the news here for some sort of excessive violence either from civilians going mad with guns they shouldn't have, or overzealous police deciding that "executioner" is part of their job description. I get that sometimes, cops are going to have to pull the trigger, but it seems to me that every minor situation becomes shoot to kill in the US even if it'd be possible to manage the situation without escalation. There is a very obvious culture of violence in the United States that needs to be changed and the people who are meant to "protect and serve" might be a good place to make that change.

    As for the "race" issue, honestly I don't think this was racially motivated but who knows? I will say though, that I can understand why some BLM activists might not be quite as outraged over this. Any unwarranted shooting is awful, but I think you'd have to be pretty damn ignorant to pretend that blacks (and also Hispanics I'm pretty sure) haven't been disproportionately targeted by law enforcement in the US. Hell, I don't even really support BLM - I don't support any group who ignores the misfortunes of one group to focus on themselves - and I can see that this is a very real problem.

    tl;dr
    Probably not a race issue, let's not make it one.
    All unwarranted shootings are bad and the US' culture of violence needs to change.
    Black people are disproportionately targeted, this is fact.
     

    Hands

    I was saying Boo-urns
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    You said a 'white cop' in your response to me. I was reiterating that Yanez is hispanic. I was also responding to the original post. As for their criminal status, last time I checked driving under the influence was illegal. Carrying a weapon under the influence is illegal. All coupled with child endangerment, which is also illegal. Castile was a criminal as well, though a less... severe one.

    Also, you do not know who I am or what I do for the community. For your information, I do protest. And have. I make moves to better my community in real life rather than being a social media warrior or blocking traffic only to piss people off for twenty minutes. I'm a co-owner of a food shelf that feeds 3,000 families a month in the East Side of Saint Paul. I work at a hospital, I'm a reserve police officer and assist with numerous community functions and diversion programs to keep kids off the streets, in school, and away from gang activity with PAL programs, police explorers, and special olympics. My shelf also runs with meals on wheels as well as the AIDS relief program, and assistance for victims of domestic violence and sexual assault. So do not say that I do not put energy into actions trying to create a better community, because that is my life.

    I agree with the jury that Castile's shooting was justified under the law as it is written, but I also believe that it was an unfortunate event, that, with better training, better recruitment, and better discipline, should not have happened. The response to the jury was disgraceful. Especially his mother turning heels and calling for Yanez' life and going full on '**** dah police' once the news cameras were off her. Hopefully she uses that large sum of money to donate to programs and causes that could better the community, like maybe the school he worked for. I doubt it though.

    As for the other comments on social media. I do not use it. I do not credit it to be a valued source of news, and never will. So this is not based off some facebook feed of my social circle. This is years of working actively with police and the community, since I was a kid. Things need to change on both sides of the argument. Plain and simple. This most recent shooting... I simply cannot understand as the evidence released barely has a story to speak of.

    As for the 'base urges' in the previous response, they are true. Noor is the first openly muslim and Somali officer in that precinct. Disrespect toward non-muslim women is common within their culture here, and is something well known. Hell, I myself have been told, as their supervisor, that an employee would not take an order from me because I am a woman. Many, including Noor's fellow officers that I've spoken to, felt the same about him, and he was not well-liked within the department because of his attitude. You can see the difference in the department's response. With Yanez, the initial response was support from the department and assurance to the community on the investigation, with this guy, Harteau went straight to outside investigation.

    My post is literally there, i didn't mention Yanez and I outright explained the basic premise of the post for you. I can't find anything, from the court case or from anywhere prior stating that Castile had been driving under the influence. I found 52 various stops by cops for minor traffic violations, nothing on what you've said though.

    With Yanez, the initial response was support from the department and assurance to the community on the investigation, with this guy, Harteau went straight to outside investigation

    Yanez wasn't a black muslim. Noor will be crucified for this because his victim was white and he is not.
     

    Nah

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    .....I am not going to get into the racial aspect of this discussion as I have absolutely no desire to engage in the same pointless song and dance that I (and many others in this thread/on this site) have done probably almost literally a hundred times before.

    However:

    What is Australia's reaction to this? A US cop did just kill one of your citizens after all.
     
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  • Racism against whites isn't a thing, just like misandry isn't and neither is heterophobia. If you're a part of the oppressive class you can't be oppressed.

    Race is brought up because for hundreds of years white people have invaded and suppressed other populations. Racism is a very real issue today still, people are just finding new ways to be racist.

    My heart goes out the family of the victim though.
     
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  • What is Australia's reaction to this? A US cop did just kill one of your citizens after all.

    I've heard much less about it than I was expecting to in all honestly. I think, at least for me, it's gotten to the point where I hear about these things so often it's really hard to feel anything about it, even with the victim being Australian.

    Racism against whites isn't a thing, just like misandry isn't and neither is heterophobia. If you're a part of the oppressive class you can't be oppressed.

    That's a whole other kettle of fish, but it is very much a thing. I'd encourage you to make another thread to discuss it further if you'd like to.
     
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  • Relevant list of all police-related deaths in Minnesota since January of 2000 that was compiled by a local newspaper:

    http://www.startribune.com/fatal-police-encounters-in-minnesota-since-2000/435017603/

    Allow me to reiterate, it's not a race thing, it's a training thing. Notice above how every year since 2008, with the exception of 2011, is at or above the high-water mark for police incident deaths from before 2008? And 2017 is well on its way to climb past that high-water mark again as well. And that's not all. Check out the police death data below.

    Police deaths sorted by state from 2008 to 2012 by comparison (Minnesota is immediately to the right of that cluster of 3 dark blue states just south of Canada): http://www.governing.com/gov-data/law-enforcement-fatality-rates-by-state.html

    Screenshot of the Minnesota data for those who can't find it or can't open the link: http://i.imgur.com/CcbTZDz.png

    Notice how there's only 7 police deaths in those 5 years? In each of 2008 and 2011, the two years with the lowest total deaths as a result police encounters in that particular 5 year period, there were 8 civilian deaths. In each year. And those had the lowest total of civilian deaths. There's fundamentally something wrong with how our officers are being trained to approach these incidents (they're also getting the "dealing with mentally unstable" shit pile heaped onto them too, to be fair, which is a whole different can of worms that shouldn't even be on officers' plates in the first place). Using the Minnesota data to make a case since there have been numerous well-publicized incidents and it's the state I'm familiar with having lived here.

    This also happened with the Minneapolis PD about 2 weeks ago (two dogs were shot by an officer in their own backyard after an officer responded to a call placed by a tripped security alarm): http://www.kare11.com/news/video-shows-mpls-officer-shoot-dogs-in-owners-yard/455375082

    Notice how the dog isn't aggressive but is merely apprehensive (you can see the slow, apprehensive pace and the tail-wagging that with dogs is generally a sign of a dog being deferential, iirc)? Police are definitely armed with more than just a gun, so a gun should basically never be an officer's first weapon of choice, especially when the nearest living thing is a dog. Most dogs are nowhere near as aggressive as police dogs are trained to be.

    The report on the police report (accompanied by video from the homeowner, which is also in the above link): http://www.kare11.com/news/police-report-from-mpls-dog-shooting-/456500453


    This may be veering somewhat off-topic, but this does provide the context regarding police incidents in Minnesota for the shooting covered in the OP.

    Anyway, more details of the incident from the police perspective have been released: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/justine...cers-mohamed-noor-matthew-harrity-loud-sound/
     

    Hands

    I was saying Boo-urns
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    Relevant list of all police-related deaths in Minnesota since January of 2000 that was compiled by a local newspaper:

    http://www.startribune.com/fatal-police-encounters-in-minnesota-since-2000/435017603/

    Allow me to reiterate, it's not a race thing, it's a training thing. Notice above how every year since 2008, with the exception of 2011, is at or above the high-water mark for police incident deaths from before 2008? And 2017 is well on its way to climb past that high-water mark again as well. And that's not all. Check out the police death data below.

    Police deaths sorted by state from 2008 to 2012 by comparison (Minnesota is immediately to the right of that cluster of 3 dark blue states just south of Canada): http://www.governing.com/gov-data/law-enforcement-fatality-rates-by-state.html

    Screenshot of the Minnesota data for those who can't find it or can't open the link: http://i.imgur.com/CcbTZDz.png

    Notice how there's only 7 police deaths in those 5 years? In each of 2008 and 2011, the two years with the lowest total deaths as a result police encounters in that particular 5 year period, there were 8 civilian deaths. In each year. And those had the lowest total of civilian deaths. There's fundamentally something wrong with how our officers are being trained to approach these incidents (they're also getting the "dealing with mentally unstable" **** pile heaped onto them too, to be fair, which is a whole different can of worms that shouldn't even be on officers' plates in the first place). Using the Minnesota data to make a case since there have been numerous well-publicized incidents and it's the state I'm familiar with having lived here.

    This also happened with the Minneapolis PD about 2 weeks ago (two dogs were shot by an officer in their own backyard after an officer responded to a call placed by a tripped security alarm): http://www.kare11.com/news/video-shows-mpls-officer-shoot-dogs-in-owners-yard/455375082

    Notice how the dog isn't aggressive but is merely apprehensive (you can see the slow, apprehensive pace and the tail-wagging that with dogs is generally a sign of a dog being deferential, iirc)? Police are definitely armed with more than just a gun, so a gun should basically never be an officer's first weapon of choice, especially when the nearest living thing is a dog. Most dogs are nowhere near as aggressive as police dogs are trained to be.

    The report on the police report (accompanied by video from the homeowner, which is also in the above link): http://www.kare11.com/news/police-report-from-mpls-dog-shooting-/456500453


    This may be veering somewhat off-topic, but this does provide the context regarding police incidents in Minnesota for the shooting covered in the OP.

    Anyway, more details of the incident from the police perspective have been released: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/justine...cers-mohamed-noor-matthew-harrity-loud-sound/

    The problem is the police as an authoritative collective consider themselves above the law, not upholders of it. Racism certainly plays a part in the people the police harass and approach unlawfully but yeah, they're just as likely to shoot a small dog or an unarmed woman who called for help in a situation where the gun is present.
     

    EC

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    Police chief just resigned at the request of the mayor.
     
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